Lost 4.13 + 14 (Season finale)

[selenak]

I do have online access here, and there will be some photos and conference-related stories later, but now I'm using my free hour to write my review, and may I say: Lost, season 4 finished in style. (The score of current fourth seasons so far, as far as I'm concerned: New Doctor Who, yay! (Loved every episode, even the weaker ones, rewatched every episode more than once.) Lost, despite the occasional moment of irritation mostly related to either gender issues or Dr. J. Shephard, hooray! Battlestar Galactica, show, show, you still produce the occasional gem that makes it all worthwhile, but if you've proved one thing, then that Ron Moore needs a kick-ass supervisor.)

Now, on to that island in the not exactly silver sea.



If Michael Emerson doesn't get an Emmy for this season, there is no justice. Season four, without a doubt, has been the season of Ben (and probably not so coincidentally also the season of death), and they pulled it off without suddenly ignoring his misdeeds or making him less of a ruthless sociopath. Who'd have guessed that when "Henry Gale" first showed up in season 2, he'd be given the big heroic moment of the s4 finale? Well, the writers, clearly, who saw the potential of character and actor both.

But before I get there, first thoughts about alll the other goings-on.

1) I guess this means bye-bye Desmond. The reunion with Penny means his storyline is in effect over; the only other one he had was his visionary flashes in regards to Charlie, and that was over with the last season finale. Though they still owe us an explanation as to why Desmond was completely wrong with his Claire-and-Aaron-get-in-the-helicopter vision that Charlie sacrificed his life for. Well, I guess given Claire's appearance to Kate in her dream, in theory the following could happen: Kate ignores Claire's wish and brings Aaron back to the island, Claire, whether she's a dead corpse walking like her father or is still somehow alive, reunites with him, and they leave the island together on a helicopter. But I doubt it; it's likely that Henry Ian Cusack will be off the cast list next season. He didn't have much to do this season beyond one episode, The Constant, and as I said: Desmond's big storyline was always the parted lovers one. The only way I could see him plausibly get back into the narrative after reuniting with Penny is if Ben does in fact make good on his threat to Charles Widmore and kills Penny, and I think/hope that won't happen.

2) On the other hand, we'll clearly see more of Charlotte and Miles. Sooo, Charlotte was born on the island, hm? The only reason why she can't be Annie is that Ben would have recognised her (and vice versa.) Going by her name, Charlotte Staples Lewis, which is a clear homage to C.S. Lewis, I'm thinking she's - no, not Lucy, but Susan. Banished from Narnia for growing up and denying it in favour of adult things, and desperately trying to return. Miles staying is a bit of a surprise, since clearly he can't get or use that money Ben promised him on the island, but then again, he probably thinks he won't be able to use it off the island, either, not given the clear evidence his employer, Mr. Widmore, is really into disposing of people not useful anymore. Daniel, now that's a good question, because while the helicopter was out of reach of the island vanishing zone, the boat evidently was not, but it was on the periphery. So, did Daniel & co. survive? Guess we'll find out.

3) I'm thinking Juliet/Sawyer in season 5?

4) Sayid versus Keame: I'm not exactly a fight scenes expert or addict, but that was great, suspenseful, and the big action scene of the finale within the big action sequence, the teaming-up of the Others and Castaways to take down the mercenaries. Which was ever so good.

5) So Jin is really dead, and his actor joins the ranks of the punished-for-driving-drunk. The rest of the cast better take note. The final exchange with Michael was lovely and touching, as was Michael's (predictable, but still) sacrifice and Christian Shephard/ The Island finally giving him permission to die.

6) Now, the big question is: does Sun blame Charles Widmore or Ben for Jin's death? Given her state of knowledge in the past, I'd say Widmore (who hired Keame and created the explosive situation), and that she is going to be the one to take him down in the present. On the other hand, it's also possible that she later found out - via "Jeremy Benston", perhaps? - that Ben killed Keame in the full knowledge of what that would mean to the freighter people, which might make her genuinenly join forces with Widmore in order to take down Ben. We'll see. In any case, flash forward!Sun was in full Mafia don mode. She means business. Charles or Ben better take care.

7) More flash forward land: yes, addict crazy Jack is still my favourite version of the younger Dr. Shephard and the one I can genuinenly feel for, even though he got there all by himself.

8) So, Sayid as of crazy Jack flashfoward time is still in Ben's employ. Because...

9) My guesses for the coffin candidate were always either Locke or Ben. The finale skillfully made it look like it could be Ben, especially with giving him the big sacrificial moving the island moment after saying goodbye to Locke, but also played fair by letting Walt mention that Coffin!person visited him. Which I can't see Ben doing, but of course Locke would. During the Locke-Ben goodbye scene I was yelling "oh nooooo, now we'll never get Ben 'n Locke scenes again, you just separated my favourites, nooooooo!", but paradoxically the final reveal gave me hope, because a) it means that Locke for some reason (which has to be pretty drastic) left the island, and b) Ben is planning to bring his corpse back there. Given the history of walking corpses, I think dead!Locke will eventually become the next embodiment of Jacob. And Ben will somehow contrive to get back to the island after all himself, so they can be together again. So there.

10) So, after a lot of questions were answered, the new question is "what went wrong on the island after the Oceanic 6 left, so wrong that Locke gave up the island in order to get everyone back?"

Comments

[svilleficrecs.livejournal.com]

"3) I'm thinking Juliet/Sawyer in season 5? "

Yessssssss. They've both got such ruthlessly pragmatic sides and have feeeeelings for people who aren't there anymore and also they're both so hot. Juliet/Sawyer FTW

[wee-warrior.livejournal.com]

So, what's your final verdict: Better live, or on DVD?

Desmond: I doubt that he's done, not least because I think they finished off Penny's Search because Sonya Walger is chronically unavailable. I doubt they would relieve Henry Ian Cusick of his job just because she has another one. Besides, Michael Emerson said something interesting in this interview (http://community.tvguide.com/blog-entry/TVGuide-Editors-Blog/Tv-Mattrs/Michael-Emerson-2/800040514), which to me definitely points into a certain direction (especially since Cusick said something similar in a chat before the finale.) Of course there is also the constant connection to Daniel, which brings me to my next point:

The producers said they wanted to do more with the freighter people in Season 5, and especially mentioned Miles and Dan. I don't think that Frank is entirely gone, either, especially now that Widmore knows more people survived than the O6 (and much as I dig Sun, I really believe she is screwing him and Des over here).

I have not much on the rest, but I liked it. :)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

DVD is best, as one doesn't have to wait two weeks (or more) if there is a skippable Jack episode in between till getting to the good stuff again, but live allows for more discussion and speculation, which is a part of the fannish expierence.

especially now that Widmore knows more people survived than the O6 (and much as I dig Sun, I really believe she is screwing him and Des over here

He could take her words as an allusion to Ben (which is how I took them), and/or even Locke (if Locke contacted Sun as well, though as opposed to the others, she's not conveniently in the US, and I doubt returned!Locke, who couldn't reveal himself and claim compensation from Oceanic Airlines, never was a rich man to begin with and would have been in a wheelchair again, would have been able to travel the world easily). At any rate, do you really think he's unaware Desmond is back with Penny before Sun makes her statement? Given he tells Ben re: Penny "you'll never find her" with some certainty, and claims to have nightmares, I think it's highly likely he and Penny had one dramatic confrontation/goodbye scene (presumably after Desmond told her about everything he knows), and Widmore has tried to find her ever since, too, which is why he's sure Ben won't manage it.

[wee-warrior.livejournal.com]

DVD is best, as one doesn't have to wait two weeks (or more) if there is a skippable Jack episode in between till getting to the good stuff again, but live allows for more discussion and speculation, which is a part of the fannish expierence.

Wise answer!

I think I prefer DVD because it's faster and more coherent. Discussing the show is a little odd to me, since I have very few people to discuss it with (as opposed to, say, Heroes). I guess it's one of the drawbacks of coming late to the series.

He could take her words as an allusion to Ben (which is how I took them), and/or even Locke

I think it depends. She does say "As you know" so it's not news to him like I previously thought, but if he knows about Desmond, as you point out, it still could refer to him and Frank. It just depends what Sun's deal actually is, which is of course the most interesting question. And for the record, I think Jack is wrong - Sun might be angry at him for leaving Jin behind, but she wouldn't take over her father's company and get close to Widmore to avenge herself on Jack. It has to be either Widmore himself or Ben.
As for her not getting visited by John, I'd say that depends how he ultimately got to the mainland. If he has some of the famous Other resources at his disposal, I can see him hoping on a plane to Korea and see her - which would mean if Jin is still somehow alive and made it back to the island, he would have told her. Sun would then have a valid reason to go back to the island herself, and could have contacted Widmore among other things to achieve exactly that aim.

At any rate, do you really think he's unaware Desmond is back with Penny before Sun makes her statement? Given he tells Ben re: Penny "you'll never find her" with some certainty, and claims to have nightmares, I think it's highly likely he and Penny had one dramatic confrontation/goodbye scene (presumably after Desmond told her about everything he knows), and Widmore has tried to find her ever since, too, which is why he's sure Ben won't manage it.

You definitely have a point. I thought he likely didn't know because he obviously would have tried to reach Des otherwise, and given Jack's warning that Desmond should not let himself be found, it seems a little unwise to make clear to Widmore of all people that he's still around.

On the other hand, Widmore strikes me as intelligent enough to count two and two together here, and if Penny vanishes suddenly after the O6 come back he can probably guess who she's with.

(One more thing I noticed on second viewing: Elizabeth Mitchell was just amazing in that scene where Sawyer gets back to the beach. Just sitting there with that bottle, and it's all in her face. Awesome. I do adore both Terry O'Quinn and Michael Emerson, but I'm really glad the show has so many good actors in general.)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Word on Elizabeth Mitchell. No wonder they kept Juliet on the island, as you were right - if she had made it back, there is no way she'd return, especially not if Ben is the one asking, and they want to keep her around for a while yet.

By the way, any guesses as to why flash forward Claire has enough individuality to make it clear to Kate she doesn't want Aaron back on the island whereas when Locke visited the cabin she seemed to be totally in tune with Jacob and dear old dad?

[wee-warrior.livejournal.com]

Claire: I suspected it either was easier for her to get past Jacob's influence because she wasn't in his direct vicinity (that of course implies that his influence is stronger in the cabin than elsewhere), or because it concerned Aaron as opposed to someone less connected to her like Locke. A third possibility would be her getting stronger over the last few years, as the ff should take place somewhere in late 2007.

[shelled-avenger.livejournal.com]

I'm thinking Juliet/Sawyer in season 5?

Very hot. I want to see this.

In any case, flash forward!Sun was in full Mafia don mode.

Hotter yet. I now really want to watch more of this show.

[astrogirl2.livejournal.com]

1) Yeah, it certainly does seem like that's Desmond's story arc wrapped up with a nice little bow. Which is lovely -- I was really quite moved at the reunion -- but if he really is gone for good, as seems likely, I'll miss him. I'm just glad he isn't dead... Knowing the he didn't come back with the Six, they had me genuinely worried for a moment with that fake-out drowning.

2) My guess is that Daniel and co. were close enough that they probably did go with the island. I think if the boat had been left behind, the others would have spotted it from the helicopter; they were certainly looking hard enough. Unless it sank, of course. But unlike Desmond's story, Faraday's does not seem to be complete yet.

3) Oh, god, please no. Juliet annoys me even more than Kate. Admittedly, she's been more tolerable this season, but Sawyer's such a great character... If we're going to pair him off with somebody, it would be nice if for once it was somebody I could actually stand. (Sorry, Juliet fans!)

4) That fight was hardcore! I'm no great devotee of fight scenes, but that one pleased and impressed me.

5) It's possible he might have survived, since we didn't actually see a body, but it certainly seems vanishingly unlikely.

6) It seems odd to me that she only blames two people, as there are a whole bunch of people she could legitimately blame. Widmore, Ben, Keamy, Frank (for not landing the helicopter anyway), even Michael for keeping him so long.

7) Amen to that.

8) It would appear so.

9) Locke was always my first guess, which is a good thing because I managed to semi-spoil myself for "Jeremy Bentham"'s identity about a half hour into the episode. Oops. But, yeah, I'm not worried. Death is apparently a temporary condition for Locke, and I hold out the full expectation that will see more of him, and, better still, more of him and Ben.

10) I'm really looking forward to finding out.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

But unlike Desmond's story, Faraday's does not seem to be complete yet.

Definitely not, and there is so much set-up it really screams for more. Incidentally, were Bernard and Rose on that boat? If so, they're still alive as well, which would make me happy. (Though it would also give me fretting material again, given that bad things are about to happen on the island (though when did they not?).

It seems odd to me that she only blames two people, as there are a whole bunch of people she could legitimately blame.

True, but Keamy and Michael are dead, so that seems redundant. (Michael being dead she'd know, of course, and Keamy she'd have been told was shot by Richard Halpert even if Locke - who is the only one who could have told her other than Ben - didn't fill her in on his actual demise. But whether or not he did, when Sun talks to her father with the "two people" statement, she's just a few months pregnant, i.e. just a few months off the island, and at that point, she'd definitely would have thought Keamy died when Richard shot him.)

Death is apparently a temporary condition for Locke, and I hold out the full expectation that will see more of him, and, better still, more of him and Ben.

As long as these two conditions are met, I'm not worried, either. I mean, I enjoy each character on their own terms, but their scenes together just have that extra little something.

[astrogirl2.livejournal.com]

I didn't see Bernard and Rose on the boat, but we only got a couple of quick glimpses of it, so they might very well have been.

Good points about Sun.

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

I'm so with you on Juliet. I can't stand that ever-present smug little half-smile. I'm glad Sawyer survived though.

I managed to spoil myself about Locke too when I thought I should know who Jeremy Bentham was and looked him up in the Lostpedia. Still noooooooo, they killed Locke. It won't be the same if he's walking dead.

[astrogirl2.livejournal.com]

That is exactly what I did! The name sounded so familiar I was sure I'd heard it before... (And apparently I had, in Doctor Who fandom, in a completely and utterly unrelated context.) Fortunately, it didn't actually ruin things for me all that badly as a) I wasn't sure being redirected to Locke's page wasn't some sort of mistake, so there was still some suspense and b) I pretty much expected it to be Locke, anyway.

I'm not too worried about him, though. He'll be back in some fashion, no doubt. If he's a ghost or something, I'm sure he'll be rocking the ghostliness. And it seems entirely possible to me that he might just get up and be fine. I mean... It's Locke.

Although, man, now I'm wondering how/why the island let him be killed in the first place, when it/Jacob was perfectly capable of preserving Michael's life. Have they had a falling-out? Is that part of the terrible things that happened? Aww....

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

Huh, yeah, I got redirected to Locke's page too.

I kept thinking it wasn't Locke up till today because I thought the newspaper notice or the funeral director said he had a son; Locke doesn't. I don't see how he can be cured when all his organs have been removed and his veins filled with embalming fluid though. Crap. Unless he becomes an Alpert.

Have they had a falling-out?

Oh surely not. Poor Locke.

I should make my own post rather than hijack this one.

[astrogirl2.livejournal.com]

Did it say he had a son? I must've forgotten that. Huh. That's... interesting. *goes to look it up* Hmm. The Lostpedia article on the subject is confusing as to where that comes from and whether it's solid canon or not.

As for the embalming fluid, well, it doesn't seem to have stopped Christian Shepard from getting up and walking away. ;) I'm in no way underestimating what's possible on that freakazoid island.

And I pretty much always just hijack selenak's posts instead of making my own. She always has so many more intelligent things to say than I do. :)

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

Yeah, but is that Christian Shepard or the manifestation of the island? If the latter, it won't be Locke any more, but his outward appearance. And he looked so happy the last we saw him.

I have a post up now. :-)

[astrogirl2.livejournal.com]

OK, I've moved the discussion there. :)

But I'll just add that it seems to me to be theorizing on absurdly little data to assume anything about what an undead-ish Locke might come back like. :)

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

I know. But he's my favourite. :-P

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

Agreed on Michael Emerson. I couldn't stand the Henry Gale character at first but damn if Ben didn't grow on me till I found myself enjoying every scene he's in.

1) I hope that's Desmond's story over and Ben doesn't kill Penny like Widmore presumably did with Sayid's Nadia.

2) I don't think Charlotte can be Annie because she's a lot younger than Ben. (Huh. I wonder if that woman Desmond encountered in London was Annie.) I do remember the look of joy on Charlotte's face when she landed though.

3) No. Please, no. How about Charlotte? She's the hottest woman in the show.

4) Oh yeah, great fight scenes and I'm so glad Keamy was killed even if that meant Jin died; he can't try to massacre the people left behind now.

5) Jin may not be dead. The freighter was in sight of land and there were life jackets. They could bring him back if they wanted to.

6) Not sure what Sun's up to, but I like it. Wow, she's changed so much from the brow-beaten wife in S1; you go, girl.

7) Jack still seems to be the star though. I suppose I can hope that he'll be more interesting in the future. The series' future, I mean.

8) Yeah, I wonder who was after Hurley and why.

9) I am devastated that they killed Locke. Even if he's walking dead in the future, that won't be our Locke, will it, but more a mouthpiece of the island. Unless he becomes immortal like Alpert. [mourns Locke]

And now we have to wait. :-( I had no idea when I started watching that this series would be as good as it is, especially this last season.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Re: 7) I'm afraid that will never change. Other than Blake, I can't recall a hit show going through a real change of leading man, and they only did it because Gareth Thomas went off to the RSC. Unless Matthew Fox gives up his meal ticket prematurely, we're stuck with Jack as the star.

re: 8) Matthew Abaddon?

re: 9) At the very least, we'll get him alive one more season during the island scenes (as I doubt season 5 will take place exclusively in flash forward time, they'll let us find out what happens next on the island - where Locke is alive and well - while simultanously telling us about the get-back-to-the-island events in 2007. Also, I just refuse to see Locke as permanently dead in flashforward time, and I don't think he'll just be another Christian Shephard type walking corpse. Here's a thought, though, and perhaps the reason why Locke could never see Jacob, though he could hear him - maybe Locke is Jacob the way Sinclair was Valen, not just reborn but the same person, who travels back in time and has to go through a transformation first. With the death as the final transformation. It would tie with Astro's observation that the test Richard Halpert put child!John through was very similar to the one run on potential Dalai Lamas as children. And I very much doubt Ben would insist on taking Locke's body back to the island just so there is another corpse for the island and/or Jacob to inhabit. (No shortage on those.) After all, he always has a plan... and past rivalry or not, Locke is arguably the closest thing he has to a friend.

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure that Abaddon would bother using an agent to watch the place. He'd just walk in and get Hurley. It's more likely to be Widmore, but why?

maybe Locke is Jacob the way Sinclair was Valen

Oh now that's an intriguing thought. I like it as long as it doesn't preclude us having lots of Locke scenes. They could run two timestreams like Heroes did when Hiro was in medieval Japan; I'm thinking that we might get to see some of the Island's past.

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

Another thought: when Ben changed into his cold-weather gear, I thought, "Aha! Hurt arm, right clothes, steam from being icy: this is when the island throws him into the Sahara." I was still puzzled though that Ben knew about Nadia's killer, but I suppose there's elapsed time between his arrival and Nadia's funeral, but that's still fast work to get info from the US like that. Odd.

[mermaidrain.livejournal.com]

I don't think this is the end of Desmond. He's too good an actor and even when a character dis (boone, Charlie, etc.) we know that they come back in visions or whatever. BUT I read someone suggesting that Desmond and Walt might need to be included in the "everyone has to come back" group that has to return to the island, which is something to consider.

Jin though, I'm pretty sure is gone. Although I read somewhere else where someone thinks he might make the boat that the other scientist was on (that was heading for the big boat during the explosion/moving island moment).

And I totally saw Juliet and Sawyer hooking up. I can see the fanfic now. LOL! ;)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

BUT I read someone suggesting that Desmond and Walt might need to be included in the "everyone has to come back" group that has to return to the island, which is something to consider.

Hm, true, but while Walt might volunteer, I don't think you could get Desmond there unless you chloroform him all the way.

...I checked the communities, and the Sawyer/Juliet fanfic is being posted already.*g*

[mermaidrain.livejournal.com]

Or (God forbid) something happens to the lovely Penney. I think he'll be there to stop Ben and/or Sayid from killing her though. And perhaps she will join him on the island as someone else suggested (was that you? can't remember) for protection. All delightful possibilities that remain to be explored next season. ;)