More Forest of the Dead chat

[selenak]

Literally, as I can recommend the podcast (downloadable at the BBC website) for this week's episode, which was made by Stephen Moffat, David Tennant and Russell T. Davies. On one level, it's a three-ways fanboy geek-out as the Old School references fly thick and fast, and extremists from both sides (i.e. both people who think of Moffat as the potential savior of New Who from RTD's era and people who think evil Moffat must have somehow hypnotized Rusty into letting him write Doctor/Reinette and River Song) will be satisfyingly (for me) frustrated as the present and future Overlords get along splendidly and agree on most things Who. They also both have a blast with the entire situation and flirt shamelessly with David Tennant. I must quote the first few lines from the podcast for the general public, because they are spoiler-free and priceless:

RTD: I'm Russell T. Davies, headwriter and executive producer of Doctor Who, but never mind about me, because I'm handing you over to...
SM: Stephen Moffat, and Russell is only the current executive producer. I'm sharpening the knife behind his back.
DT: I'm David Tennant, and I'm staying out of this.
RTD: So, David, which of us do you love best?
SM: List your favourite episodes in order of precedence. At once.
DT: Seriously, I feel like I'm sitting with two presidents of the High Council.
RTD: So which of us is Flavia, and which of us is Borusa?
SM: Can't we both be Borusa? He regenerated so often!
RTD: I want to be Leonard Sachs!Borusa. Mmmm, Leonard Sachs.
SM: I always was for John Arnatt myself.
DT: Which one is he?
RTD & SM: Which one is he? You fail!

(Given what happens to Borusa eventually, it cracks me up that they both want to be him.) In more spoilery terms, and in between the three-way kidding, the following interesting tidbits around the episode and DW in general can be heard:



SM says what he loves best about writing the Doctor as a hero is that he's not superstrong or superfast, and while he's smart, he's not always the smartest person in the room; he has no superpowers and more often than not "saves the world through his big gob". DT points out this also on occasion has a dark, hubristic side - the shouting as an expression of that.

SM says it might be heresy, but he always thought that when Patrick Throughton came back in "The Three Doctors", he wasn't playing the same Doctor he had in the Two era, he was playing an exaggarated version. "The Little Tramp as the Doctor", not Two as he had been. DT defends Patrick Throughton's performance. RTD says the "Three Doctors" as a story required the Doctors going a bit to extremes. SM then says that was his problem with it, they're playing the two regenerations - Two and Three, since One is hardly in it - like two different men, whereas he thinks the key to a good multi Doctor story is to look at them as the same man, just seen in different pespectives.

They point to the music in the scene where River Song whispers the Doctor's name. I'll leave you musical analysts to it.

"I'm now going to butter David up a bit, Russell. David, your performance was magnificent, especially here when you react to her saying your name and become just a man, and then you snap back into being the Doctor again, and later when you watch her die."

RTD says he likes that the mystery of River wasn't completely explained, that it never was spelled out in all detail just who she was to the Doctor - companion, wife, something else (one of the two Scottish blokes jokes about "The Doctor's Mum", didn't catch who because it was so fast). The audience in the same position as the Doctor for once, or vice versa, just able to guess.

In the first draft of the script, Donna's pseudo husband Lee was in the end revealed to be a woman, and RTD loved that. SM says he loved it, too, but had to change it because the script earlier hadn't made it clear the people "saved" in the computer world could change their appearance if they wanted to, and so the audience might not have understood that the stuttering girl in the end trying to say Donna's name was Lee, her "husband". RTD says in his mind, this is still what happened.

Much praise and cheering for Catherine Tate and Alex Kingston, and DT also points out Jessica Williams, who plays Anita; he says that it was her first on screen role and that she was excellent in it. DT asks SM whether Alex Kingston has commitments in 2009, and SM remains enigmatic. Speaking of commitments, from the tone of the entirely conversation, it seems to be certain DT will be back for season 5.

All three get into a nostalgia fit about the Fourth Doctor story The Ark in Space, which RTD says this two parter reminded him of; SM says the opening was intended as a homage. DT wants the Wirrn back and the other two say he can't have them. This leads off to a trajectory about how of course their DW will also look dated in a few years, that this is part of the charm of the show; "menace in the living room, homespun sci-fi". That's DW, and you get it or you don't.

They discovered rather late that the Doctor's screwdriver (the other one) was lying close enough he could have reached it with his legs when being handcuffed and freed himself, so they had to remove that digitally.

When watching the trailer for next week, SM says he's really looking forward to that one because it will be the last DW episode he'll be able to watch without knowing what happens in advance for a long while. (He knows what happens in the finale.) RTD said something similar, only in reverse, in an interview recently: that now he'll be able to watch episodes again as a fan without knowing everything that will happen. They, after all, can resist the evil SPOILERS.

And in conclusion something that you could put as an epitaph for the RTD era and, not wildly guessing will be able to use as a motto for the SM era: "This, viewers, is what happens when fanboys run the show."

Comments

[monanotlisa.livejournal.com]

Heh. Thanks for sharing -- while the Old Who bits went over my head, the rest was amusing!

[selenak.livejournal.com]

You're welcome. (Borusa and Flavia were both presidents of the High Council of Time Lords, at different times, of course, and Borusa - who had the misfortune of having taught the Doctor and the Master at school - was played by a different actor every time.)

[kalypso-v.livejournal.com]

[Troughton, by the way. Think of fish, not prepositions!]

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I'll try to remember. :)

[wondygal.livejournal.com]

I listened to the podcast, but it was so fast I was scrambling to understand them. I got the bubblewrap mention, but didn't get Wirrn. Though in retrospect it is, um, quite obvious. They are such geeks, it is delightful.

I do hope we get Tennant and Kingston back. She could have one of the specials, at least? But those are still RTD's, aren't they.

And because I love Donna and can never contain myself, now you mentioned Lee, how great was their first date? She dresses up for fishing in the rain, oh, Donna.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

They are such geeks, it is delightful.

It truly is. And that's why, flaws and all, I like this bunch a tad better than most of the creative crew behind Battlestar Galactica, who have a tendency to go "we're not making tacky sci fi, but truly SERIOUS television". (Not Moore himself, who has never denied his Star Trek origins and still is proud of the old shows. But the rest. And the press.) Meanwhile, over here we have the current producer and the future producer and the star of the show talking about who was the best actor for a minor character that appeared a couple of times DECADES ago.

The specials are still all RTD, Moffat will start his tenure with 5.01., which I guess means if River comes back, it won't be before that.

There can never be enough Donna, verily.

She dresses up for fishing in the rain, oh, Donna.

It reminded me of the flashbacks we got in Runaway Bride when she asked Lance to marry her instead of the other way around. And you know, one of the many reasons why I loved that scene between her and the Doctor near the end when she calls him on the "I'm allright" stuff is the way she does it; by stating she's anything but allright in the same way. Now Rose and Martha, because they're still quite young when joining the Doctor, wouldn't have said that because they wanted to prove they could take the universe with all its toughness, but Donna is in her 30s and doesn't have to play tough. When she's been through hell, she can admit it, and make the Doctor admit he has at the same time. They really are mates.

[wondygal.livejournal.com]

That is very true, about the way Donna interacts with the Doctor; I was reading the dvd commentaries for dwseason4 this week, and ariastar mentions in a scene that the Master, differently from Rose and Martha, can tell when the Doctor is in pain, even when he's hiding it, and so the Master was actually good for the Doctor, in a screwed-up way. But with Donna, remarkably, he doesn't hide it. Around her, he's more honest. And she can tell when he's not. She is wonderful with Ten.

Word on the geekery, also. I can't resist David Tennant in anything, because he is such a sweetheart(plz to not tell if he has a secret past). I do not get tired of that Chain Reaction interview. It's my happy place.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Well, ariastar wrote this before s4 was broadcast, obviously, and yes, he is more honest. With lapses (see not telling her why they went to the library in the first part), but he tries, and it's a red thread through the season really, from the moment in front of the TARDIS near the end of Partners in Crime via Pompeii where she won't stop and he finally opens up to the Ood sharing the music - and before that admitting he failed them by not questoning the last time, which he needn't have told her - to that conversation in "The Doctor's Daughter", when he tells her about his family and how that makes him feel. I think the last time he was that open about something that personal from his past, you have to go all the way back to Three and Jo and Three telling her about his childhood when they're on Atlantis.

Speaking of pasts, not to worry. No dire tales of DT's are known to me. More stories of the amusing variety, like the one when he as a young actor tried to get a London agent and ended up with Wendy Padbury on the phone (as she works for an agency now) and freaked the poor woman out when he recognized her voice, declaring in full geek mode "OMG you're Zoe! You're Zoe!" This, and other tales are told on the easter egg audio commentary for "The Five Doctors" featuring him, Phil Collinson and Helen Raynor, and it's another fan party. They're all three, as they proceed to get tipsy, extremly sympathetic and very adorable. (Plus lots of good stories. Phil Collinson got to drive with Bessie as a child which makes DT and Helen Raynor freak out. And they all talk Old School companions and Doctors.)

[wondygal.livejournal.com]

Yes, I meant I was amused that one of the good traits of a Doctor-Master companionship(as it were) is one we see with Donna.

Hee, the story with Wendy Padbury is so sweet. David Tennant, stop charming me.

Also, re: you guesses about Donna's fate, I don't mind if she can't travel with the Doctor anymore, since I understand Catherine Tate is hard to get, but I hope she lives. EVERYBODY DONNA LIVES!

[kattahj.livejournal.com]

I love that about Lee, but I can understand their final decision, because yeah, the point probably wouldn't have come through. Unless Lee wore very special clothes or something. :-)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

And probably not even then. There are still people asking why the Doctor, once he had the TARDIS back, didn't just retrieve Billy Shipton from the 60s in Blink, even though we really get that spelled out in canon. In a 15 seconds scene, with a person we've never seen before? I think perhaps only a third of the viewers would have gotten it. Still, it would have been neat.

[kattahj.livejournal.com]

Maybe if Lee had been a Goth (hee! I'm amused at the very thought) and right after the attempted "D...D..." someone had called her "Leanne" or something.

But yeah. Viewers can be tragically stupid, and I say that as someone dumb enough to hardly ever figure out the plot twists. :-)

[skywaterblue.livejournal.com]

In the first draft of the script, Donna's pseudo husband Lee was in the end revealed to be a woman, and RTD loved that. SM says he loved it, too, but had to change it because the script earlier hadn't made it clear the people "saved" in the computer world could change their appearance if they wanted to, and so the audience might not have understood that the stuttering girl in the end trying to say Donna's name was Lee, her "husband". RTD says in his mind, this is still what happened.


That made listening to it for me. Gay Agenda: now a little more transgendered than you're used to, heh.

Although irrelevant, I personally really enjoyed the story about Princess Diana meeting Young Russell. (You can kind of tell that RTD has totally polished this story over and over again, which was part of the charm.)

"This, viewers, is what happens when fanboys run the show."

Kicks ass, takes names? I'd been able to successfully resist the Doctor for ten years and now look what happened.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Although irrelevant, I personally really enjoyed the story about Princess Diana meeting Young Russell. (You can kind of tell that RTD has totally polished this story over and over again, which was part of the charm.)

Oh, absolutely. My father who gets his inner Jacobin out each time royalty is mentioned would disapprove, but I found it something between amusing and charming.