On the narrative necessity of buddy shows: Or, some Whovian thoughts (free of spoilers)

[selenak]

As the season finale draws near, DW fandom seems to go through a rehash of old arguments and old/new fears. I'm not immune or nearly as zen as I pretend to be: I'm fretting about various possible finale scenarios as much as the next fan. However, I find some textual analysis helps with the zen pretense to no end. In recent weeks, someone, I believe neadods in a comment, said that if s4/30 proved one thing, than that Doctor Who as a series works better as a buddy movie than as a romance. Which I agree with, and I'd like to explain why, in the hope that possible comments will not result in "my companion can beat up your companion" and/or "I hate RTD/Moffat/the entire Cardiff production team/*insert someone else*" threads.

Now matter whether we're talking Old Who or New Who, there are some constants about the show. The Doctor will always be an alien time traveller who every few years gets recast because when the original actor wanted out more than 40 years ago, someone had the inspired idea to invent regeneration. He also most likely will remain male; while the show never said Time Lords couldn't switch gender upon regeneration, the possibility of the BBC actually going there outside of charity sketches is remote, interesting and narratively invigorating as a gender switch might be. The other constant is that the companion/ the companions will also come and go. They will be more often female than male, and more often human than of any other species. However, there never will be a companion who stays as long as the Doctor does. Some may stay years, some only a season, depending both on the production team and actor availability, but their eventual departure from the show is inevitable. Which means that the show has to come up with a reason for their departure, again and again. In over four decades, there were roughly four categories:

a) Companions that left by their own decision to return to their old lives / start a new life elsewhere.
b) Companions that were separated from the Doctor by fate, against their and his will
c) Companions that were left by the Doctor.
d) Companions who died

(As opposed to what New Who only watchers might think after School Reunion, c) is actually not a big category. d) isn't, either, but it did happen three times in Old Who.)

If you format the story you're telling as a mutual romance, than category a) and c) are practically impossible. (And a) is by far the largest category in Old Who.) In real life, romances that peter out rather than end with a dramatic bang might be quite often the case, but not on tv, and "sorry, this isn't working anymore, thanks for the good times, bye!" isn't likely to happen. d) Can happen, but given this is an ongoing show, how many times can you do "Doctor holds dead person, most likely female, he loved in his arms" before saying "refridgerator syndrome"? Which leaves b.) And the problem with b) is that it takes the power of decision away from both parties. Now I don't know about you, but I prefer stories where the leads are at least partly responsible for their own fates.

(Sidenote: As with every rule, there are, of course, exceptions. The separation of Two from Jamie and Zoe worked for me both as a tragedy and as a set-up, leading as it does into a new era.)

Then we have the one-sided romance which can end in all four ways, but does no one any favours. I'm trying to think of a case where "unrequited love" has been pulled off as a storytelling device without causing bitter partisanship, character hate and fannish feuds, and the only one I can come up with would be Delenn and Lennier on Babylon 5. (Though I might be wrong about that. But I really don't recall either Lennier or Delenn hate around season 5.) The more usual case is what happened at various times in the Jossverse and last season on DW: On the one hand, you have fans calling the object of devotion a cold bitch/ ungrateful bastard for not returning it, on the other, you have fans calling the lover a stalker/ weak / stupid. Then there's another factor. On ensemble shows like BTVS or AtS, you at least have other characters and relationships taking some of the fannish energy. But on Doctor Who, the relationship between Doctor and companion is absolutely central, and to make it one sided is a recipe for disaster.

(Sidenote: in season 3 era interviews, you could see RTD bringing up Vince and Stuart from Queer as Folk (UK), the show that made his name, as an example of the greatness of unrequited love. Which I think is massive label cheating. Vince/Stuart is unrequited only if you define "requited" as "having sex with each other". Since in all other respects the show makes clear that Vince is the most important man in Stuart's life. So no, I wouldn't list Vince/Stuart as an example of a successful "unrequited love" storyline that didn't divide fans, but rather as an example of a successful love story that played with boundaries.)

Then, if you play the Doctor/Companion relationship explicitly romantically, there is the problem of the inherent power imbalance caused by the set-up. As Rose puts it in End of the World, "don't argue with the designated driver". The Doctor will always be the one who has the car keys, so to speak, and could, if he wanted to, strand his companion anywhere. (With the obvious exception of the Three era, during most of which he was the one stranded and without the possibility to leave.) From the days of Barbara Wright onwards, the show tried to balance this by providing the companions with more common sense, or more empathy, or both, giving the Doctor reasons for needing them as much, if not more, as they need him, but if they are in love with him, the power balance is again tilted in his favour, whether he is conscious of this or not.

Lastly, both requited and unrequited romance have the backstory and future story problem. To wit: as mentioned, this is a show with ever changing leads. It always will be. Both the various incarnations of the Doctor and the various companions have their partisans who prefer them to others, that is inevitable. Just as inevitable as any given production team having a bias towards their own toys, i.e. the Doctor and companions they themselves created. However, adding textual - as opposed to subtextual - romance inevitably results in reactions like this: "So the text tells me he loves X. Why didn't he love W? I ADORED W. I thought so did he, but W didn't get any *insert most recent demonstration of love to X*, so clearly, he didn't love W, and that's just unfair and a slight against my favourite companion. And how about Y? Y is way cooler than X. How come he doesn't see that?" Which is silly - treating a declaration of romantic love as the ultimate merit badge - but we've seen this is how fandom works.

(Sidenote: no, you can't just replace "X" with "Rose". I distinctly recall many a Doctor/Rose'shipper distressed in exactly the same way when you replace "X" with "Reinette" or "River Song".)

So, in conclusion, that that mean I'm of the "the Doctor/show/fandom should be asexualist" persuasion? Not at all. As any slasher will tell you, buddy shows and buddy movies inspire an infinite number of 'shippy fanfiction. But the narrative of a buddy show doesn't have to revolve around the "will they/ won't they?" question. Whether they're shagging like bunnies between episodes because they're doing the friends with benefits thing or whether they really don't fancy each other that way, their every interaction in the episodes we do see isn't burdened with the audience having to wonder "will he/she tell him/her 'I love you'? If not, why not? Will they kiss? When will he/she return the love? Why not?" What's more, it seems to be easier for a tv audience to accept that someone can be friends with more than one person than that they can be in romantic love with more than one, that today's friendship doesn't devaluate yesterday's, and leaves room for a new friendship tomorrow.

Which is why I think my life as a DW fan would be made considerably easier if future Doctor/Companion relationships were to continue to take place in a buddy show, and not a romance. And besides. We all know he loves the TARDIS best anyway. That, too, is one of the few immovable constants.

Comments

[elyssadc.livejournal.com]

Which is why I think my life as a DW fan would be made considerably easier if future Doctor/Companion relationships were to continue to take place in a buddy show, and not a romance. And besides. We all know he loves the TARDIS best anyway. That, too, is one of the few immovable constants.

You are brilliant.

[butterflykiki.livejournal.com]

Agreeing with you pretty much all the way down the line. Having a romantic edge to the show works when there's more than one Companion, and more than one relationship going on. Jack & Nine & Rose worked because even though it couldn't be completely equal, with the Doctor as designated driver (as you said) at least he was outnumbered, and the possibility of Jack/Rose and Jack/Doctor was as strong as Doctor/Rose. But if there's only two people there, there's just no balance. A friendship, on the other hand, is both less intense, more equitable, and more likely to end on an up note, if someone decides to leave. *sigh* Pleeeeease, lt Moffat keep this format next season, whoever stays/goes.

I am so insanely looking forward to Saturday, it isn't even funny.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Jack/Nine/Rose: yes, though Mickey/Ten/Rose in s2 proved that there really has to be emotional investment from all sides because otherwise more than one companion alone doesn't do the trick. (Mind you, I lalso loved londonkds' fanon explanation as to why the Doctor usually takes only one companion at a time post-Five: "Tegan loved Five, Five loved Nyssa and then fancied Turlough, Adric lusted after both the girls, Turlough despised everyone sexually as probably too vanilla, and nobody returned anyone else's affections in the desired way. That whole succession of TARDIS crews was a tragic hotbed of thwarted and simmering desire, which explains why the Doctor went back to having one female companion at a time for ages.")

Pleeeeease, lt Moffat keep this format next season, whoever stays/goes.

Here's hoping, indeed.

[butterflykiki.livejournal.com]

Valid point; I think I was probably thinking more of when they had a full TARDIS almost, with Tegan, Nyssa, Adric, and later Turlough. It's at least *distracting* to have more than one possibility, but since it seemed to me that the Doctor was never all that invested in Mickey, though he grew to like him in time, and Mickey was resentful quite often of the Doctor, well... That was an unbalanced triangle, like you said.

And that's a hysterical quote. *snerk* But more than one relationship, of whatever kind, makes *some* kind of romance at least possible without getting into predictable cliche's, yup.

[spikendru.livejournal.com]

Oh, yes! Excellent points, all. I completely agree, and I think it's why I absolutely adore Donna (although I liked Martha a bunch, I thought Rose was a tad too emo for my taste). It's also the main reason I've rather gone off Bones. My most passionate fandom love is definitely for BtVS/Angel, but, as you've said, they are ensemble shows, and I love the possibilities inherent in ensembles. I started watching Bones to get that "ensemble" feel, and I found I was very interested in all the characters. Then, in the next season, they got rid of Dr. Goodman, who was my favorite chaqqracter, and really started anvilling the Booth/Bones relationship, which is completely meh to me. I could care less whether they actually get together or not - I love the friendship they've shown each other, which both really need.

I'm with you in the hopes for a continuing buddy show vibe in Doctor Who. Although, I giggled uncontrollably during the three-part finale of Series Three, at both Jack's and Martha's sniping about Rose. "Is that what happens, though? Seriously? Do you just get bored with us one day and disappear?" "Not if you’re blonde." "Oh, she was blonde? Oh what a surprise!" "You two! We’re at the end of the universe. All right? We’re at the edge of knowledge itself and you’re busy…blogging! Come on!" BWAHAHA!

[selenak.livejournal.com]

My most passionate fandom love is definitely for BtVS/Angel, but, as you've said, they are ensemble shows, and I love the possibilities inherent in ensembles.

Yes; of course one has always character preferences, but still, in most cases I don't fall in love with a show unless it offers me more than just one or two characters I care about, and that is certainly the case with both BtVS and AtS. I just love ensembles.

"Is that what happens, though? Seriously? Do you just get bored with us one day and disappear?" "Not if you’re blonde." "Oh, she was blonde? Oh what a surprise!" "You two! We’re at the end of the universe. All right? We’re at the edge of knowledge itself and you’re busy…blogging! Come on!" BWAHAHA!

I giggled uncontrollably, too. See, this is why I can't believe RTD is a monoshipper. Or if he is, he at least has the sense of humor to make fun of himself. He wrote that dialogue, after all!

(I also loved Donna's and Matha's "The coat looks good on you." "I feel like I'm wearing my dad's cloak." "You're definitely over him if you call him dad.")

[londonkds.livejournal.com]

Sadly, most fans in my experience reacted to that exchange by taking the use of the word "blogging" as a venomous insult to internet fandom.

[kalypso-v.livejournal.com]

I don't think I took it as an insult as such, just a bizarre use of the word I'd never heard before. I presumed it meant RTD's only experience of blogs was people slagging him off.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Great Maker, as Londo would say. I suppose the friends list thing in Gridlock is taken as a mean slight against livejournal as well?

I mean, seriously, how one can look at that scene and not see that the way it is constructed, with Jack and Martha snarking and the Doctor defensive and reaching (the way he does when Jenny puts him on the defense in the Doctor's Daughter, for example, you know, the "Well. I suppose. But that’s… that’s… technically... I haven’t got time for this! Donna, give me your phone! Time for an upgrade!" reaction which is exactly in the same style) is favouring the former over the later is beyond me. I'm all for taking RTD to task for clunkers such as "I take only the best, I take Rose" (grrooooaaaaan!), but this is just paranoid.)

[londonkds.livejournal.com]

Not the friendslist thing, since it's in a more pleasant manner. But many of the same people also felt that the "You've watched too much TV" line about the Master as the Doctor's brother was an insult against fans for watching too much TV, rather than, as I think it obviously is, a jab at cliches of, especially US, TV plotting and/or the notorious John Leekley rebooted Eighth Doctor TV series proposal, which had that concept.

[danel4d.livejournal.com]

"Power up the crystals, Cardinal!"?

[spikendru.livejournal.com]

Oh, wow! People really saw thaty as an insult? I thought it was hilarious - an attempt by the Doctor to relate to pop culture, when he actually has no idea what "blogging" means. For all of his age and wide travels, he doesn't generally seem to have a grasp of slang, and his attempts to use it fill me with glee.

[genarti]

Yes. Yes, yes, yes; you've articulated pretty much exactly my feelings here.

It's not that I deeply care whether the Doctor is sleeping with (or interested in sleeping with) any particular companion(s) rather than another. It's that I don't care especially, because that's really not the most interesting part of the show for me. I care about the friendship, about the bickering and bantering and emotional connections, the fear and marvel and joy of a human traveling through time and space with a centuries-old alien for a best friend (and vice versa). I care about the changing dynamics as the Doctor regenerates into a different self, and the companions come and go and overlap and move on.

And sure, there could be romance in the background, or just plain sex, or some combination thereof. But when the writers start playing with that beyond a certain level of subtext, it becomes a tv romance, and that has OTP expectations built in, as you say. It colors every scene, and I find myself going "La la la CAN'T HEEEAAAR YOU" to the screen and the subtext because I just want my wacky sci-fic buddy show back.

[futuresoon.livejournal.com]

As always, you know just what to say. The thing I've noticed about Old Who exits is that they tend to be rather inexplicable; Leela and Romana's came right out of the blue, as did Sarah Jane's to a certain extent, and while we certainly knew that Jo liked Cliff, it's not like we immediately expected her to run away with him. Liz, of course, never got an actual exit, poor thing. I've heard Ben and Polly pretty much just skipped away, not even at the end of an episode. (Jamie and Zoe are only sort of an exception; even if the episode was more dramatic than usual, and it was presaged by an earlier attempt by Two to get them to leave, I recall we spent nine episodes without Two even thinking of calling in the Time Lords, and the resulting cruelty of their judgment must have come as quite a shock.)

In fact, the only time I can remember a genuinely foreshadowed and thus not completely-out-of-the-blue exit (although keep in mind I've still only seen half the show) was Adric. From the very start of the episode, he was already expressing a wish to leave. Even after he decided not to, when the Cybermen forced him to stay on the spaceship, he had a suspiciously poignant goodbye with the Doctor. And even if we still thought there was a chance, when he refused to leave the spaceship with the others, all that added up and became horribly clear that he wasn't going to make it. So...the only time we got a real amount of foreshadowing was for death.

...and we all know the kind of foreshadowing we've been getting for Donna.

Hell, we even got the foreshadowing that companion-death was possible, with Astrid, her obviously-temporary nature regardless. It's gotten to the point where, although I really sincerely do not want it to happen and would be an inconsolable wreck for hours or days afterwards, I wouldn't be surprised if Donna died. Which doesn't actually have anything to do with romantic vs. buddy-movie companions, but I think this got away from me somewhere. Must be the proximity to Saturday--it's making me jumpy. I do completely agree with you on that count, though; even if companions like Rose can be fun in the short-term, it only leads to trauma in the end. (And ship wars, but I am not in a position to see many of those.)

We all know he loves the TARDIS best anyway. That, too, is one of the few immovable constants.

As I have always said. That is a zen truth.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I'd say Tegan's exit was somewhat foreshadowed, though Nyssa's was not. Turlough's was, at least from the moment the story makes clear his home planet is involved in the current story. Mel's wasn't; someone once called the anti-Doomsday, which stuck with me, so now I'm using it, too, because it really is. Totally out of the blue, and basically "So, Doctor, I've suddenly decided to become a space pirate! How about taking that Ace girl we just met in so you have someone to talk to? Bye!" *exit Mel, with a cheerful wave and smile*

As for the very first exits that set the pattern: while the relationship between David and Susan was carefully build up through the story and she did have a "I never belonged just to one time and one planet" conversation with him, the Doctor deciding to leave her still comes as a shock when you watch it, even after all those years. Not just because of the early 60s sexism ("you're a woman now, Susan, and belong with David") but because it's clear that this is not what she would have chosen, being in love with David notwithstanding. (As opposed to Jo, who does make that choice by herself.) And leaving someone before they can choose to leave you is not a little messed up (mind you, it works totally with later Doctor psychology), plus I don't think he ever locked anyone else out of the TARDIS so they can't come back, because he doesn't trust himself to say goodbye face to face. and not relent.

Barbara and Ian, well, I'd say that as much as they enjoy their adventures after the initial phase of mutual distrust etc., they've always made it clear they do want to go home again, so when they finally get the opportunity I don't think it's unforeshadowed that they take it; anything else would be ooc. (Given that this is at a time where the Doctor is way worse at driving the TARDIS than any of the later periods - he's lucky when he hits the intended planet, let alone time zone.)

[honorh.livejournal.com]

As you know, I love the Doctor/Rose relationship. That said, on the whole, I actually agree with you. Rose can be an aberration from the norm and still be a valid part of the milieu. One very silly objection I saw to the lack of reciprocal romance in the Doctor/Martha relationship was, "Well, if he loved Rose that way and doesn't love Martha the same way, that means the show is telling us Martha is the lesser companion, and that ain't right! Therefore, the Doctor must also love Martha that way." Which is, as I said, silly--there are many, many ways for the Doctor to appreciate his companions (and for the audience to appreciate them), and romantic love is no more "better" than deep friendship than red is better than blue.

The show, to wrap this up, will be better off in the long run if the Doctor/Companion relationship stays away from textual romance/romantic feelings for the majority of the time. Donna has proven that people can love the Doctor/Companion dynamic without it--in fact, she's proven that people will absolutely love it.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Which is, as I said, silly--there are many, many ways for the Doctor to appreciate his companions (and for the audience to appreciate them), and romantic love is no more "better" than deep friendship than red is better than blue.

Oh, absolutely, and this view of romantic love as the ultimate merit badge in companion ship drives me crazy. Though I still blame Rusty for burdening Martha with the unrequited love storyline to begin with, and I say that with affection for our evil Welshman. Because as I said, there is no way such a storyline is NOT going to lead to fannish wars at the best of times, and to use it directly after the Rose storyline was just oil into that fire. However, imo the relevant s4 scenes were all one could hope for by making it clear that a) the Doctor does appreciate Martha and b) Martha moved on and is now able to build a more equal friendship with the Doctor. If people still insist that the Doctor should give her an apologetic speech followed by a romantic declaration, that's their problem and no longer the production team's fault, says this Martha fangirl who never shipped her with the Doctor to begin with. (Because one can root for a companion without wanting her to become the Doctor's love interest!)

The show, to wrap this up, will be better off in the long run if the Doctor/Companion relationship stays away from textual romance/romantic feelings for the majority of the time. Donna has proven that people can love the Doctor/Companion dynamic without it--in fact, she's proven that people will absolutely love it.

Quite. She's a great amalgan from both Old and New Who in this regard - the buddy relationship is more Old School style, but the emotional continuity, the fact she has a family we get to meet, and her influence on the Doctor is completely New School, so she unites the virtues of both!

[londonkds.livejournal.com]

"Well, if he loved Rose that way and doesn't love Martha the same way, that means the show is telling us Martha is the lesser companion, and that ain't right! Therefore, the Doctor must also love Martha that way."

I've seen Doctor/Rose shippers argue this for ages to suggest that Martha fans should simply be satisfied with what they got and that the Doctor not returning her affections should be seen as simply the way human relations work out by chance. But it doesn't work, IMO, because the Doctor has been portrayed as so incredibly godlike and such a moral arbiter in New Who, right down to blatant Christian religious symbolism. Fans and creators can argue that we're in a Graeco-Roman pagan frame where gods can be petty, human in their emotions, and object lessons rather than role models, but all the Jesus!Doctor stuff puts us squarely in a monotheistic mode where how God feels about you really is a judgement of everything abut you, and to question God's morality or competence is hubris and blasphemy.

[bats_eye.livejournal.com]

I think there's a different between being a moral arbiter, which yes the Doctor is absolutely portrayed as, and the situations with Martha, Mickey and Jack. Because in all three the doctor makes no bones about the fact that they're good people who he approves of which given his role of supreme moral authority in New Who means the audience can approve of them to.

When he does dress them down or not respond to their affections the audience is almost entirely in their POV and meant to sympathise with them rather than the Doctor. Certainly the narrative goes out of the way to show Martha and Mickey prove themselves to be capable and gives a scene between Jack and the Doctor where the Doctor is the one having to apologise and explain his actions. I do think the writers intended the Doctor to be at least somewhat insensitive in his treatment of them.

I know what you're saying is that the show leans so heavily on the Doctor as supreme moral arbiter that it leads fans into taking his judgment as the word of god in his personal relationships too but to me they did a good enough job of separating the two areas that I didn't find it problematic. YYMV of course.

(I'm about as far from a Doctor/Rose shipper as you can get by the way and I agree entirely with what Selena said above.)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

As a Martha fan who never wanted her 'shipped with the Doctor to begin with and still thinks the unrequited crush was the worst creative decision of s3, I find this argument incredibly far-fetched. (And again, see above, one can be a Martha fan without shipping her with the Doctor. Or thinking that the only way the show could make up for said bad creative decision could be by letting him declare his belated love.) I mean, for starters:

to question God's morality or competence is hubris and blasphemy.

Good lord, but the show does that even in s1, in "Dalek", with "what have you become, Doctor?". Between "sometimes, I think you need someone to stop you" in The Runaway Bride, "if you could decide who lives and who dies, wouldn't that make you a monster?" in Voyage of the Damned as framing statements of s3, I can't see the show presenting him as an unquestioned moral arbiter of anything. And even if you postulate that the Doctor's judgment on people is presented as the highest authority, well, we go from "I knew she was good!" in Gridlock to "Martha Jones, you're a star!" in Lazarus Experiment and various declarations of complete trust in the later half of the season. And then we get s4, where right at the start he declares that Martha was brilliant and that things went awkward was his fault, plus "I ruined half her life". Again, this particular Martha fan was satisfied.

[tempestsarekind.livejournal.com]

(here from who_daily)

I am also a Martha fangirl who never shipped her with the Doctor. I never thought that the problem was that the Doctor didn't care about or approve of Martha--he goes back to get her, he hugs her, relies on her, rescues her from time to time. The problem is that, for whatever reason, RTD et al. decided that Martha *herself* would feel "second best" to Rose, which creates a situation where (for me at least) the Doctor really needs to say something to Martha herself, once he knows that's how she feels. As much as all the Martha mentions/appearances in S4 gratified me in some ways, they didn't help me to feel like *Martha* knew how much the Doctor had valued her. And maybe she doesn't need to know, because she knows she's good regardless, but it does put Martha in a weird space where the Doctor is so warm and open with Donna (and giving her the emotional goodbye Martha never got), but then snippy about guns with Martha in the very same episode. Which leaves me wondering why he treats her so differently, and it almost seems accidental on the writers' parts, like I'm supposed to think they're one big happy Team TARDIS in those episodes.

So, yeah, I agree with your post for many reasons, but also because I suspect that without the whole "unrequited" thing, there wouldn't have been that awkwardness between them in the first place.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

but it does put Martha in a weird space where the Doctor is so warm and open with Donna (and giving her the emotional goodbye Martha never got), but then snippy about guns with Martha in the very same episode

Because Team Cardiff has issues about the Pertwee era and the Doctor working for UNIT during same?

If the gun argument (which Martha won!) had been their only scene in this two parter, I'd agree, but it wasn't. There was their initial hello, during which he took his cues from her, and once he saw she was glad to see him was very affectionate towards her. Then Donna mentioned he spoke highly of her, and often. (I think that must have been soothing and directly addressing the second best feeling - because it showed Rose wasn't the only companion mentioned in her absence. Later, when he actually was saying goodbye to both women in the belief he'd probably die (because really, how likely was it that the Sontarans saw sense?), he said:

Right, so... Donna, thank you. For everything. Martha, you too. Oh... so many times.

I'd say that expresses appreciation and warmth, both in the way written and played.

Don't get me wrong: all this being said, I still regret that Martha didn't get to have the kind of relationship with the Doctor that Donna currently enjoys, and that's the direct result of the decision to give her the unrequited love storyline resulting in awkwardness, even in season 4 (though to a far lesser degree). For example, I still can't see the Doctor, in the hypothetical situation where he's going to a party with Martha, tell her delightedly "you look lovely" the way he does with Donna in "The Unicorn and the Wasp". Not because he wouldn't think it, but because she used to be in love with him, and that gives such a remark a different connotation than it has between two friends who never had that problem to begin with.

What I hope for Martha - and have done since LotTL - is that she'll be the New Who equivalent to the Brigadier, i.e. the friend the Doctor keeps coming back to through several regenerations. Now the Brig and the Doctor weren't exactly cozy from the get go. They had very different view points, and the Doctor wasn't above snark re: military intelligence being a contradiction in terms" early on. But even then, he immediately defended the Brigadier if anyone else critisized him (though usually out of the Brig's earshot), and with the years going by, they got closer, and it became clear that friendship would last forever. That's what I want for Martha.

[tempestsarekind.livejournal.com]

I would love it if that's the role Martha gets! And it makes sense; there has been a concerted effort to portray her as the Doctor on earth. (I could wish that they didn't feel the need for the invisible fiance to ground her, but eh.)

I think I just found it frustrating that the Doctor seemed to be telling everyone *but* Martha how he felt about her, because the problems of S3 still loomed so large for me (and she just seemed so skeptical that the Doctor would have said nice things about her to Donna!). I wonder how I'll feel upon rewatch, because you're right: we didn't get a big Moment between them, but we did get several smaller moments. And I loved the fact that he didn't just swoop her up in a hug at first meeting, but waited to see how *she* felt. It showed a sensitivity to her feelings that I wasn't necessarily expecting (because I could also see Ten trying to pretend nothing was the matter).

Also, that little "you look lovely" to Donna is one of my favorite moments of that episode. I love their interaction.

[crossoverman.livejournal.com]

Loved your analysis of the Companions in general - but I particularly like your comments on Martha's story here.

At the start of Season Three, when it became apparent that she was falling in love, my immediate reaction was "not again". Because that seemed lazy on the heels of Rose.

Now I get why she personally felt inferior to Rose (this happens in real life, too - feeling like you can never live up to your partner's rose-coloured view of their ex. Pun intended). But the contrast makes the story feel worse. I didn't want them to get together; unrequited love stories can work - and in isolation Martha's story could work. But the character already started on the back foot being the second companion of New Who. She was almost in a worse position than Tennant taking over from Eccleston!

Even the early reaction against Donna (based on Runaway Bride that was partly understandable) has been turned around because of Tate's excellent performance - but I don't think the next Companion will be at quite the same disadvantage. Particularly if it is the Doctor's Daughter. (Although people will slash them, what with Tennant and Georgia Moffat being together in real life.)

[honorh.livejournal.com]

Can't follow you on all of that, but I find the argument that Martha was the lesser companion for not receiving romantic love from the Doctor exhausting on all sides. Besides, it's not like the Doctor didn't approve of Martha or like her, or even love her in a way. If we're going with Christian imagery, anyway, romantic love would be totally inappropriate, so IMHO, the argument falls down even on that front.

[elisi]

I've been listening to the podcast for 'Forest of the Dead' with DRT, Moffat and DT, and at one point they discuss the Doctor and what he is - basically coming to the conclusion that (mostly) he's a charlatan, and the Doctor persona is in large part just an image he projects. He isn't faster or stronger than anyone else, although he *is* very, very clever - but then so are those he comes up against. Basically the main thing he's got going for him is his gob - he can talk his way out of almost anything (and when that fails, as Midnight showed so superbly, he really truly is screwed).

It also reminds me of something DT said on the Confidential for The Doctor's Daughter (I transcribed it!):

'The Doctor has his own drawer full of double standards when it comes to behaving as a soldier. It's something he's clearly done, and done on an epic scale.'

Yes we get the Jesus!Doctor stuff, but (in S3 especially) we see the darker side of this, and the show doesn't try to hide it. He is a very flawed character, which is why I love him so. (If he's a god, he's definitely Old Testament I think.)

(Sorry about nattering at you, but it got stuck in my head.)

[spikendru.livejournal.com]

*nod nod nod*

As usual, Mrs. D. - ITA!

I adore how he can talk his way out of almost anything, and eventually has everyone agreeing with him, although, if one actually listens to what he says, in many cases it makes absolutely no sense. But it sure sounds good! *g*

[elisi]

*snerk*

DOCTOR: What was his policy? What did he stand for?
MARTHA: I dunno. He always sounded…good. Like you could trust him. Just nice. He spoke about…I can’t really remember, but it was good. Just the sound of his voice.

Have I mentioned how much I ADORE the Master? *g* That said though, Timelords have a scary amount of power - the Master wanting to get back at the Doctor almost wipes out humanity. (Except of course the Master *wants* to be god. But I've already written about that... ::slinks off::)

[spikendru.livejournal.com]

Have I mentioned how much I ADORE the Master? *g*

Oh yes! JS is a very funny man. I'm still LOL re: the happy face/sad face arguement. And then the gas mask! Hee! And this Master doesn't have fruit punch mouth! *g*

[elisi]

This is excellent! I don't really have anything to add, except that this is why I'd love for Jenny to be a Companion - it'd be a callback to the very beginning of course, but also we'd have a deep relationship without any 'subtext'. And for once (in New Who) he'd have someone whose intelligence might match his own. Also, she appears to be pretty immortal + independent, so she could come and go as the stories needed, without using any of your 4 categories! :)

Must run, but thanks for the treat!

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I'd enjoy Jenny as a companion, too, though in combination with someone else. (We never saw the Doctor alone with Susan, either; there was a reason why Barbara and Ian were the pov characters at the start.) If not Donna, then another person, doesn't matter whether male or female; thus we'd get the Doctor in a family relationship, and both he and Jenny would also have a third party to balance between them.

[elisi]

though in combination with someone else.
Oh yes - we need someone for the audience to relate to. But it'd be a wonderful setup. *is hopeful*

[skywaterblue.livejournal.com]

My money is on Jenny and a young (or Alex Kingston) River Song making a weird family unit, with the two of them dividing the aspects of companions between them. (Jenny can be wide eyed and wondrous, River Song can be their moral compass.)

[crossoverman.livejournal.com]

Wow - I'd really love for this to happen, although my first instinct is not to have The Doctor in another romantic relationship with a Companion so soon. And also I get the distinct impression that River Song doesn't travel with the Doctor in the future - that their primary relationship is his coming back for her in the 51st Century every so often. That, of course, can be retconned clarified in Season Five though.

[skywaterblue.livejournal.com]

You may have a point there. (At the very least, River's description of their final trip together implies it, although I also think there's just enough evidence to also say she's been on trips in the TARDIS.)

Plus, River Song is different from Rose in that we know she's got a life of her own that she seems way more interested in living and we already know how she dies. The problem with romance on television is as selenak says in her post, that they recast frequently on Doctor Who and the television idea of romance doesn't match it. In short, I'm okay with River Song being on the show, but any more getting fridged would be a problem for me.

[mulder200.livejournal.com]

Which is why I think my life as a DW fan would be made considerably easier if future Doctor/Companion relationships were to continue to take place in a buddy show, and not a romance. And besides. We all know he loves the TARDIS best anyway. That, too, is one of the few immovable constants.

This part I STRONGLY agree with. Thanks for the interesting reading.

[wee-warrior.livejournal.com]

...I have nothing intelligent to add (other than feeling vaguely deprived because I may not open this comment with "I hate that John Nathan-Turner!" and "Ace wouldn't beat up people, but she would blow them up!"), but meant to say that I love your new header!

[selenak.livejournal.com]

John Nathan-Turner was just a a MISUNDERSTOOD WOOBIE, and what is people's problem with horrible wardrobe and question marks anyway? *g* And Ace would, true.

My beloved new header is from here (http://community.livejournal.com/i_love_donna/69519.html).

[neutralalienist.livejournal.com]

I'm here from who_daily, and I just want to say yes to all of that. One of the things I love about the classic series is that romance isn't a big issue, and it's very refreshing. I prefer subtext on this show, and you've articulated the reasons so very well.

I do think there's still room to interpret the Doctor and Rose as unromantic, and I do tend to, but the intent is very blatant, and I think reduced Rose herself to 'Love Interest' in season two. It didn't do either character any favours.

I will say - I don't think a lot of peoples' problems with the Doctor and Martha was that he didn't reciprocate romantic feelings. I think it was that...Rose got praised so much for rather little, while the Doctor often praised Martha to other people. It's clear to us that he cares for her deeply, but with her he ran hot and cold, and it hurt her.

I do think he was trying not to make the same mistakes he did with Rose, and went too far the other way. I think they could have done the same thing without the romance, and it would have been less...tangled and weird. It didn't help that emotional continuity was so inconsistent in season three.

Now that I've rambled at you, ah...would you mind if I friended you? I always like reading your meta. And I feel a tad less shy at the moment.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Friend away! And you know:

I do think he was trying not to make the same mistakes he did with Rose, and went too far the other way.

This could be said on a Doylist level of RTD and the entire creative staff, as well as of the Doctor on a Watsonian one. With Donna as their third attempt to write a Doctor/Companion relationship and getting the balance right this time. Mind you, I don't think Old Who is immune to getting it wrong, even without romantic (sub)text. One of the reasons why the Sixth Doctor era on tv is relatively unpopular but Six got voted best audio doctor is undoubtedly, based on the admittedly few Six serials I've watched and the rather more audios I've listened to, that it was hard believing Six to be genuinenly fond of Peri, which made the sniping unpleasant instead of fun banter. Whereas in the audios, he isn't any less blustery but there is never any doubt he respects and likes/loves his companions.

So in conclusion: making the Doctor behave distant or actively negative towards a companion is a baaaaaaad idea, in any time frame. All writers responsible for DW should be made to promise they won't do that (again).

[neutralalienist.livejournal.com]

Brilliant!

Oooh, yes, definitely. It does seem that both Rose and Martha were trial runs, in retrospect? Donna does have the best relationship with Ten, I'd say.

Oh, Six and Peri. It got better, I think, but early on it made me cringe a bit. Because Peri was so raw, and Six so callous, and any progress they made together seemed to be reset. (Whereas with Evelyn there was real respect there, no baggage. And Six/Peri in the audios seems far more...mellow, and fond.)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

It does seem that both Rose and Martha were trial runs, in retrospect? Donna does have the best relationship with Ten, I'd say.

Which is so ironical if you consider that Donna was originally intended as a one shot character, the buffer between Rose and Martha. But sometimes it works out that way, and much as blame justly can be given for bad creative decisions, it's to Team Cardiff's credit that they realised the potential there and build on it.

Six and Peri - yes, exactly, that was my reaction, too. And again, the audios are an illustration of how to fix this (with Six and Peri) and not to repeat it (with Six and Evelyn, making them different from the start).

[neutralalienist.livejournal.com]

It actually annoyed me that - well - Donna's story didn't have as much of an impact as I thought it should have? Ten still went on about Rose, it turned out his companion couldn't stop him... Really, Donna was probably the best choice for the next companion. Martha taught him he should love the one he's with, and Donna can love him while still grounding him.

Big Finish solves most problems, really. *g*