The Dark Knight

[selenak]

The first thing that struck me is that The Dark Knight is even more influenced by The Long Halloween than Batman Begins was, along with the obvious The Killing Joke influence. (I hope someone pays Jeph Loeb and Tim Sale some royalties; I knew Alan Moore doesn’t want any.) The Killing Joke mainly comes in via the Joker’s “everbody is capable of anything, given enough pressure” game (and I think there were some literal Moore quotes in his speeches), with the outcome making the same point via different means. In The Killing Joke, Gordon, despite being kidnapped, tortured and given to believe that his daughter has been raped and killed (she hasn’t, but she has been crippled for life) still maintains his ethics, thus disproving the Joker’s “anyone can turn into a psychopath” claim; in The Dark Knight, the two crews on the ferries in the end refuse to survive by killing each other, thus justifying Batman’s faith in Gotham and humanity and again disproving the Joker’s nihilism. It’s a highly unusual climax for an action movie; the day is saved not by the hero physically defeating the villain (though he does that, too) but through the community (or at least the majority of them) proving their core humanity and ethics. (There is a vage similarity to Spider-man II and the people in the subway helping and shielding Spider-man after he saved their lives, but that isn’t the saving of the day.) It fits with a film where the titular hero has become distinctly background, in a startling contrast to Batman Begins.

The Long Halloween’s influence of course is the Harvey Dent storyline and the way it is executed, complete with the “I believe in Harvey Dent” declaration. In the comic, the opening issue’s three statements spoken by Bruce Wayne both as himself and Batman – “I believe in Gotham, I believe in Jim Gordon, I believe in Harvey Dent” - are repeated in the end, with Gotham and Gordon remaining for Batman and “I believe in Harvey Dent” spoken by his wife Gilda in a black irony, not just because Harvey has become Two-Face by then but because of what Gilda has done. You even get visual echoes of two crucial panels, the early one on the roof where Batman, Dent and Gordon start their crusade against the Falcone empire and the late one, again on a roof, where after Harvey’s completed transformation they are confronted with the price and have a last bitter conversation. I will say that while I think The Dark Knight equals and improves on Harvey’s development up to and including his post-disfigurement chat with the Joker, I also think the final showdown is better in The Long Halloween. In both cases, Harvey cements his fall to the dark side by committing several murders and ends up on a roof with Gordon and Batman after the last one. But Harvey killing Carmine Falcone right on front of the other two and then surrendering as a last gesture to his old self worked for me in a way that Harvey taking Gordon’s family hostage and playing Russian Roulette with his son did not.

Though that may be because the whole thing with Gordon’s son reminded me of an issue I had with Batman Begins, much as I admired the film otherwise, and had again here. Christopher Nolan and his brother and fellow scriptwriter seem to go out of their way to silence or replace what female characters the Batverse has. Speaking of The Long Halloween, in the obligatory flashback to the night young Bruce lost his parents, the comic makes the crucial pre-murder scene one with his mother. In Batman Begins, Martha Wayne is silent, and it’s all about the father-son relationship. Similarly, Jim Gordon comforting young Bruce at the police station takes the place of Dr. Leslie Thompson doing just that. It’s not that I can’t see the rationale – this scene helps introducing Gordon and making him likeable to the audience early on, plus Batman Begins is all about the father figures, what with Ducard, Alfred and Lucius Fox – but it’s a trend. Now, in The Dark Knight, we see a bit of Gordon’s family. Do we see or hear his niece and adopted daughter, Barbara, as in, Barbara, the future Batgirl and Oracle? No, we do not. We hear his son. Never mind how much more fitting it would have been if Barbara had that conversation with her father at the end about the type of hero Gotham needs.
It’s a minor matter in the overall film, but it irks me. And I’m not even a big Batman fan.

Speaking of women: Maggie Gyllenhall, while not being written differently than Katie Holmes was, makes Rachel into a person, but that doesn’t solve the problem this viewer had: she’s not given an own agenda (in Batman Begins, she at least had that), while her relationship with Harvey is believable, her relationship with Bruce is not (we’re being told he loves her and that she still has feelings for him, but their minimal screen interaction didn’t get that across), and in the end, her main purpose in this film is to die so Harvey can be pushed into supervillaindom. You know how this would not be irksome? If there were other women around for balance. Like, say, Leslie Thompson and/or young Barbara. Even just in a few spoken lines. I’m just saying.

(To be fair: we do get Lt. Ramirez whom I was assuming was comics book character Montoya until told otherwise, and I do like the fact she’s a woman is incidental to her role in the plot – which wouldn’t be different if she was a man. In fact, all the Gotham cops are well done.)

Okay, enough of that. Heath Ledger’s Joker is as great as advertised; for me, the most impressive thing is that he’s really genuinenly scary every minute he is on screen. No camp here, clown outfit or not, and no Jack Nicholson self indulgence. You never stop being creeped out as well as fascinated, and you believe this is a completely insane but highly intelligent psychopath, far more threatening than the Mafia gangsters and R’as Al Ghul put together. I also approve of the way they dealt with the background, i.e. by letting the Joker tell various contradictory origin stories and making it impossible for the police to ascertain his identity. Ultimately, it doesn’t matter who he is, and who he was before he became the Joker. He embodies murderous madness in a way that can’t be tracked down to a single cause.

Michael Caine and Morgan Freeman were their reliable warm and wise selves; Gary Oldman was fabulous as Jim Gordon, and visibly enjoys being challenged to play the normal decent guy for a change. Aaron Eckhart does a great job as Harvey Dent, and if they do another film, I hope they can keep him. I think the most impressive achievement is that in his hospital scene with the Joker, the audience attention is divided instead of just fixed on the Joker; and that’s when he has just half his face to play with. I am not sure I buy the justification for Batman taking the fall for Harvey’s murders in the end, but then, I suck at American law – would the convictions Harvey got as attorney be overturned by him becoming a criminal afterwards? As for keeping Harvey’s name clean so the people of Gotham can continue to look up to him, well, if the need for an inspiring hero who keeps the law and isn’t a vigilante is so great, Jim Gordon is right there.

At a guess, this last twist is mainly because as opposed to Batman Begins, which is the most Bruce-centric of all Batman movies and not just because it’s his origin story but because while we get several villains, it really is all about him, The Dark Knight is hardly about Batman at all (I’d say the emotional storyline is carried by Harvey on the one hand and the Joker on the other), and he needed to make a major sacrifice to justify his heroic titular hero status. With this being said, Bruce’s attitude towards Harvey throughout the film is the most interesting thing with his own characterisation, wavering as it does between pragmatism (Harvey as his way out of the Batman role) and genuine admiration. (The slashers should have a field day, if they aren’t busy with the Joker.)

All in all: another well done Batman movie by Nolan. But not my favourite superhero movie of the year. My heart is still with Marvel right now, and I don’t think that’s just because of the origin story versus sequel thing – if it were Batman Begins, I’d say the same thing. It’s Bruce, I think. As for as millionaires hanging out in superhero costumes are concerned, I just find the one with a sense of humor even in his messed-up ness more relatable.

Comments

[wee-warrior.livejournal.com]

Nice review!

I must say, I liked Batman Begins a lot, and I expect to like The Dark Knight, as well, but the female characters thing is irking me. In a different way then, say, in the Spiderman movies, which make me want to meet Sam Raimi and shake some sense in him, but not necessarily in a better way.

I don't know the Batman comics that well, so I couldn't say if it is the source material (you've mentioned Barbara Gordon of course, and there is Renee Montoya, and Selina Kyle, and several villainesses from the Animated Series), but Nolan does tend to have a penchant for making female characters motivators for the male hero and not much else. The only exceptions that come to mind are Scarlett Johanson's character in The Prestige and Carrie-Ann Moss's character in Memento, and while the latter at least has an agenda, it's also rather ambiguous (she says, not wanting to spoil anything. Let's just say, Johanson's is clearly the rounder character to begin with.). As for Goyer, provided he still wrote the screenplay for TDK - well, Blade wasn't exactly a feminist manifesto, so this isn't too surprising.

At the very least, Iron Man did do a lot better in that particular aspect. *g* I'd still like to see Wonder Woman one day, though. Or how about a Storm spinoff?

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I continue to love your Niki icon.

Batman comics: I'm not an expert, but yes, there are definitely more women. In addition to those you name, I would point out that Gordon's two wives - Barbara the older and Sarah - have each distinct personalities that come across, rather than being just the scared woman held hostage.

Re: Nolan, you're right about Olivia in The Prestige; she has something of a trickster role which usually is given to male characters, which was quite refreshing. Haven't seen Memento, so I appreciate the lack of a spoiler.

At the very least, Iron Man did do a lot better in that particular aspect. *g*

If people are reduced to complaining about Pepper's shoes, you know it did. Movie!Pepper was quite refreshing in several regards; she didn't get kidnapped by the villain, when she was about to be she got herself out of the situation and then wisely covered her exit by allying with the legal authorities at hand, she didn't have to be liberated by the hero as the grand climax and while being somewhat attracted, she turned him down for sensible reasons. (Rachel did that, too, in Batman Begins, but now that's retconned into "you said you would wait for me" - wtf? )

[wee-warrior.livejournal.com]

Re: Nolan, you're right about Olivia in The Prestige; she has something of a trickster role which usually is given to male characters, which was quite refreshing.

Actually, part of that might go back to the novel - at the very least the con Olivia and Christian Bale's character (really bad with names today for some reason) pull on Angier was the same, but I think she got out of it differently, mostly because the backstory for the whole feud is rather different. (And a lot less melodramatic than in the movie, one might add - the woman dying as a motivator clearly is Nolan's addition, but he's also the one who made the two men friends beforehand, which just works a lot better.) Not having read the novel in a while, I'm not really sure how much the character was like this in the first place, but I think Nolan made her more self-reliant.

Memento: it is a good film, but it is also very gimmicky. I don't mean that in a bad way - the structure is developed superbly, and the continuity, except for one minor makeup mistake, is almost flawless, but I don't know if it holds up once you know the solution. The story itself has almost zero substance and the characters are cyphers more than characters - which fits the situation very well, but makes it a little unfair to compare for instance Carrie-Ann Moss's to other female characters in Nolan's work. It's a good mystery and well worth watching. I just don't know if I would want to rewatch it.

(Rachel did that, too, in Batman Begins, but now that's retconned into "you said you would wait for me" - wtf? )

Yeah, sure, Bruce, she'll wait for you until you get over your massive Daddy issues and that need to wear a rubber costume. That's exactly what she said in the first movie.

Seriously, it was so obviously a finite breakup, I never expected her to come back in the first place. Of course it seems she just came back for one particular reason, anyway. *sigh*

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Christian Bale's character's name: Alfred Borden, or Albert and Frederick "Freddie" Borden. *is a fan of film*

Good to know we agree on the finite breakup as presented in Batman Begins.

[wee-warrior.livejournal.com]

Once more for TDK, as I've now seen the movie: given your hope for Eckhart's return in the third movie, do you think that Harvey actually survived his fall? Of course they never actually said that he was dead, but it seemed that way to me.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Probably because I know my comicverse, I automatically assumed declaring Harvey to be dead was part of Gordon's and Batman's cover-up, and that he's now in a cell in Arkham, to escape whenever the film franchise decides to use him again.

[wee-warrior.livejournal.com]

Hee. I have to admit the thought came to me because he didn't actually get a finale death monologue or something. Awesome!

And now I'll try not to ask myself too much why I thought Aaron Eckhart was actually way hotter as Two-Face...*is weird*

[skywaterblue.livejournal.com]

I have nothing to add to this other than: I loved the Montoya double-blind.

[liviapenn.livejournal.com]

I am not sure I buy the justification for Batman taking the fall for Harvey’s murders in the end, but then, I suck at American law – would the convictions Harvey got as attorney be overturned by him becoming a criminal afterwards?

No, but at that point I don't think it's about those particular convictions so much as keeping the momentum of Harvey's crusade going. Considering what happened to the old Commissioner, the judge, Rachel and then Harvey, people are going to be (understandably!) wary and probably have defeatist attitudes about trying to "make a difference." Much more inspiring to give the "cause" a shiny golden-boy martyr than to reveal that Harvey was a crazy cop-killer.

I suppose if there *were* appeals for any of the convictions, the truth about Harvey would really hurt the prosecution, but I think that would almost even be secondary at this point.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Considering what happened to the old Commissioner, the judge, Rachel and then Harvey, people are going to be (understandably!) wary and probably have defeatist attitudes about trying to "make a difference."

Okay, that I can see, but Harvey dying (presumably he officially died in the hospital?) just as the Comissioner, the judge and Rachel did is surely intimidating as well? Especially in combination with Batman becoming the crazy cop killer when the last thing the public saw Harvey doing was to identify himself with Batman and defend him?

Do you have a link or several to reviews, btw.? I haven't read any yet, since I didn't want to bet spoiled.

[liviapenn.livejournal.com]

Okay, that I can see, but Harvey dying (presumably he officially died in the hospital?) just as the Comissioner, the judge and Rachel did is surely intimidating as well?

Well, sure, but think of it as the difference between any inspirational leader getting assassinated, versus people finding out that he went on a secret crazy murder spree before he died. Yeah, someone who stands up for what's right getting knocked off probably makes you cynical/afraid, but the other option changes the whole tenor of the debate.

If you're the average person in Gotham standing around the water cooler, do you really want to be the first one to say "Well, let's not forget Harvey Dent had some GOOD ideas too..." "You mean besides bending the legal rules to the breaking point, or shooting criminals with no trial or anything, or killing any cops that get in the way?" "No, I mean... never mind." Plus as londonkds points out, once this comes out, Harvey's whole past is also under the spotlight and any minor infringements he might have committed will come out. (Although the Mayor did warn him about this even when he was alive. But now that he's dead... well, imagine you're a dirty cop and Harvey stepped on your head on the way up; this is the perfect opportunity to smear him back and maybe cast a little doubt on your conviction. It doesn't even have to be true as long as you can get it in the papers.)

As for reviews: my thoughts are here (http://liviapenn.livejournal.com/520192.html) and here (http://liviapenn.livejournal.com/520552.html). Hth has a scathing review (also with spoilers for Dr. Horrible) here (http://hth-the-first.livejournal.com/68937.html). Those are really all I can remember specifically-- IIRC my flist's reaction was much as yours is, lots of squee and then varying levels of "wtf, where is BARBARA/ugh, not another FRIDGE." ^_^ Too bad neither of the comics fannish newsletters link much meta. :(

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Oh, thank you for the links! (And yes, "giant man crush" is a good way of describing Bruce's attitude. *g*) And okay, point taken about the tenor of the debate.

[londonkds.livejournal.com]

This may be a very subtextual reading, but I wonder if the idea was that the revelation of Harvey's collapse into madness and villainy would lead inevitably to a reinvestigation of some of his past cases, and that it would have turned out that torturing the Joker's minion wasn't the first time he'd done something dodgy in the cause of getting someone he "knew" was bad put in jail. The cops did call him "Harvey Two-Face" from the beginning after all, and I think we were meant to take that as not just being anti-Internal Affairs prejudice.

[likeadeuce.livejournal.com]

I suck at American law – would the convictions Harvey got as attorney be overturned by him becoming a criminal afterwards?

Not per se, but there have been some high-profile cases of police or prosecutorial misconduct that led to a lot of convictions being thrown out due to tainted evidence. At the very least, knowing that the prosecutor was a killer would have caused the cases to be reopened at the cost of a lot of humiliation to the city. Which makes Gordon and Bruce's actions kind of dodgy from a criminal justice POV but I guess you could argue that THEY know that Harvey was a good man until driven nuts (which is much clearer here than in other versions of canon, including the Loeb/Sale stories).

You definitely have a point about the film's gender issues; I think a lot of it is Nolan but some of it's also the canon or, rather, the interaction of the canon with the film industry's belief that every story has to have a young pretty female lead who is a potential love interest for the hero, and as long as you've covered that base you don't need other women. I honestly think both movies would be better if Rachel didn't exist, and the childhood friend-turned-crusader role in both films was filled by Harvey. (The one canon change that really truly annoyed me in TDK was that Bruce had no previous acquaintance him; it does let them meet cute but it cuts down on the relationship's impact considerably -- also one of the factors in there not being more slash b/t them, I think). Now it sounds like I'm advocating a movie with no women, but I think that they could have used supporting characters like Leslie or Montoya, or (something I'd have liked to see) grownup Barbara showing up as Oracle. (I also assume they didn't use wee-Barbara because they want to save the option to have grownup Barbara show up as his niece or daughter-from-a-first-marriage in any sequels; that doesn't make the scenes with the kids any better, and I agree about it being a stepdown from the climax of Long Halloween).

I do think this was a really good movie; I love it as a societal examination, and for the landscape of Gotham it portrays, and for Harvey (though I have nitpicks), and particularly for Gordon, who feels like the real hero to me. Nolan's a very talented filmmaker and I understand the hype.

As far as my personal preferences though -- and, you know, I bet you know me well enough to agree that this would be true even if I'd never heard of Tony Stark before the film came out -- I prefer the larger-than-life character study that is Iron Man. Not that it's a competition, b/c I'm quite happy with both films being out there.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Not per se, but there have been some high-profile cases of police or prosecutorial misconduct that led to a lot of convictions being thrown out due to tainted evidence. At the very least, knowing that the prosecutor was a killer would have caused the cases to be reopened at the cost of a lot of humiliation to the city.

Ah, okay. That makes sense.

I honestly think both movies would be better if Rachel didn't exist, and the childhood friend-turned-crusader role in both films was filled by Harvey. (The one canon change that really truly annoyed me in TDK was that Bruce had no previous acquaintance him; it does let them meet cute but it cuts down on the relationship's impact considerably

I see your point, and agree that either Rachel should have been Harvey (i.e. we get a female Two Face), or Harvey should have been the childhood friend turned Crusader turned killer, thus avoiding the fridging and heighten the personal tragedy for Bruce.

I also assume they didn't use wee-Barbara because they want to save the option to have grownup Barbara show up as his niece or daughter-from-a-first-marriage in any sequels

That would explain the lack of lines or a name when spoken to, but still. We wants Babs, yes we do, precious.

Landscape of Gotham: it struck me (again) how not-artificial it all looked, i.e. couldn't be further from the Metropolis (the film, not the DC town) aesthetics in the Burton movies. And yes, Nolan is a great director (though my favourite of the three movies I've seen from him so far remains The Prestige).

Did you write a review you could link me to? If not, what are your Harvey nitpicks, other than the lack of a previous aquaintance with Bruce?

[likeadeuce.livejournal.com]

I'd only want Babs if they could do teen Babs and make a point of NOT crippling her (as with Gwen-Stacy-not-dying in Spidey 3) or have her show up post-injury, with the injury not attributed to the Joker. But then you'd have purists up in arms over changing the Killing Joke, so I can see it's kind of lose/lose.

I didn't review the movie, and my Harvey nitpicks don't really go beyond wanting the character to have more background (not just more background with Bruce), and some of the same plot issues you mentioned.