Batman afterthought, Battlestar Galactica links and idle musings

[selenak]

Something I didn't mention in my Dark Knight review: the casting for minor roles gave me all kind of crazy crossover ideas. As in: OMG Richard from Lost is the mayor of Gotham! (Complete with eyeliner.) Did the island arrange that? Does Ben know? (Probably.) Or: waiiiiit - isn't that, yes it is, Daniel Holtz, currently employed among Gotham's finest, it seems. And ZOMG! Eric Roberts! Clearly, the Company is everywhere. (We do not speak of Roberts' role in another cult series.)

Some Battlestar Galactica links:

Six versus Eight versus Identity: fantastic meta on the two most prominent Cylon models - focus on Caprica Six and Athena, but the other versions are much taken into consideration as well. Very insightful.

And fanfiction: A comforting lie, post-Revelations Gaeta/Baltar, great characterisation of both parties.

Which brings me to BSG and slash and how there aren't many combinations I can actually see having sex, whereas I can see while a lot of subtext and/or emotional same-sex involvement. Take Saul Tigh and Bill Adama. queenofthorns once called this the big love story of BSG and I think she was only semi-joking. She may be right. But I can't see them having sex at any point of their decades together, or now, because I seriously don't think that's what they want from each other.

And then we have Starbuck, who back in the first season was cited as a prime character to turn straight girls gay. Within the BSGverse, however, it wasn't until the second season and Resurrection Ship I that I first saw slashy vibes in a scene involving Kara and another woman, and then it was a mixture between maternal and sexual, actually, with Admiral Cain. Emphasis on the maternal, though; Kara, still on the lookout to appease a dead woman, really latched on to this, and being Kara, i.e. burdened with the idea that people who have sex with her clearly must be less admirable than she used to think, wouldn't have gone for a sexual encounter as long as she had the hero worship going on. (Which she did, despite Adama's order and Cain's less than admirable actions there; just check out her eulogy for Cain.)

Speaking of the Pegasus episodes, back then I saw someone suggest Helo/Tyrol, based on their shared situation, love for Sharon, etc., but again, got no sexual vibe. Same for Helo/any of the other guys, and Tyrol/any one else, for that matter. With Lee, I could and still can see something with Zarek, both subtextually and textually, because they have the requisite vibe in all of their scenes and Zarek has had an ironic courtship attitude towards Lee from the get-go, but anyone else/Adama Junior, nah. Which leaves Felix Gaeta and his gigantic season 1 crush on Gaius Baltar which turns to disappointed love and passionate hate pretty much textually. In s1 and 2, this seemed completely one sided to me, which is always a turn-off (I'm not interested in pairings, be they slash or het, where both sides aren't emotionally invested), but starting with the scene in Exodus II and Baltar's reaction to Gaeta pulling a gun at him, I thought, hmmm. Certain scenes in s3 and one particular scene in s4 cemented the impression that our Gaius, as much as he can in his self-centered way, regarded Gaeta as a bit more than a useful sidekick, hence my reading the occasional fanfic.

Footnote: and then there are the Cylons, who are textually bisexual. Well, the Sixes and D'Anna are, and if you take podcasts into account, then Ron & Co. are working from the assumption that pretty much any possible combination between models has been tried. Now one can justly complain that we've yet to see, say, Leoben/Doral, but given certain m/f precedents, you can bet the first on screen Cylon male/male action will involve Cavil. Don't say I didn't warn you. Still, Cavil and Leoben are the only male models who have been given enough characterisation by the show for authors to work with - the Dorals and Simons pretty much are background in every scene they are in, if they show up at all - so I'm not surprised neither show or fanfic comes up with this. (Although: the cynical atheist and the ultimate mystic. Fanfic has worked with less reasons.) Meanwhile, there definitely should be more Three/any Six, but what I really want right now is Three continuing to play mind games with Laura Roslin. Way more interesting than her scenes with Adama.

Comments

[sionnain.livejournal.com]

OMG, I could so get behind Three/Roslin. ::swoons at that:: That has just the dynamic I like!

Since I ship Sam/Kara/Leoben, I totally want to slash Leoben/Sam. I think that would be pretty!!! I don't know if I can make that work in my head, but it certainly would be hot. ::laughs::

I've been wondering for fic purposes lately, if the Cylons have sex with each other just for experimentation. I really like the idea that the answer to that is "yes", hee. :)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

OMG, I could so get behind Three/Roslin. ::swoons at that:: That has just the dynamic I like!

Their scene in The Hub was one of the very few times when you had the impression Roslin was up against an equal when it came to power games. And Six so would, both just for the hell of it and for power games.

Leoben/Sam would be pretty and hot; I think you could write it credibly if you take the time to build up something instead of just going for a PWP. After all, much as being a Cylon troubles Sam he's canonically curious about it (see the scene where he almost touches the Basestar guiding system), has shown the impulse to each out to other Cylons before (when Athena refuses to touch the dying Eight's hand, Sam takes it), and at the same time has so many (right) issues with what Leoben did to Kara on New Caprica. (I always found it fascinating that Kara told him quite a lot about that time with Leoben - more than she told anyone else - as we can see from such scenes as the one in Taking away your troubles where Sam says that Leoben might have been right about Kara having a destiny. Note that Sam isn't just all vengeance or blindly jealous re: Leoben but takes into consideration what the guy said.)

So what you really would need to do is find a justification why Leoben would go for Sam. Genuine curiosity about one of the Final Five? Curiosity because he's Kara's husband? Mind games? Sam is pretty?

[sionnain.livejournal.com]

Well, I have a 'verse in which Sam and Leoben and Kara all had sex, (which was GOING TO BE PWP but um, ended up with talking and plot because I can't write PWP unless there is backstory. ::fails at porn::) and I think that at some point in that 'verse, Sam and Leoben will probably do something, and it will be because of Sam's curiosity and Leoben's very patient demeanor. And because it would be pretty. Since that threesome is the happiest making thing ever, I can totally make it work in that context, I think.

At least, I'm going to try. ::giggles::

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

Oh, I absolutely don’t think Saul Tigh and Bill Adama have ever known each other in a Biblical way (and the thought gives me a cold, unpleasant shiver! :P)

But I do think that they love each other as much or more than any other person – it’s so telling that Adama has been able to pretty much keep it together when he thought that a) his son had died; b) his surrogate daughter had died; c) the woman he loves was maybe dead (I mean, he sort of fell apart and went on a suicide mission, but he was still functioning and not in a big heap on the floor!) But when he found out that Saul was a Cylon and that maybe his whole relationship with this guy wasn’t real … THAT was the moment of true coming apart at the seams. As for Saul, I think his touching faith that Bill was coming to get them, and the fact that his nightmare about being a Cylon is maybe that he’s programmed to kill Bill (heh!) pretty much sums up the person he loves the most.

(And I also think fandom likes to sexualize every relationship waaaay too much – sometimes friends ARE just friends, and the bonds of friendship can often be more powerful and longer-lasting than the bonds of boyfriend/girlfriendship.)

As for Starbuck, I always thought she might have had a fling with Kat :D

[selenak.livejournal.com]

But I do think that they love each other as much or more than any other person

Oh, agreed 100%, and for the reasons you name. Though I'd argue for Saul it's a close call between Ellen and Bill, but yes, Bill definitely wins that one. He barely recovered (did he?) from killing Ellen; he'd never recover from killing Bill.

Starbuck and Kat: this is a bit like Sydney and Anna in Alias in that the show actually sets it up (with all the Buffy/Faith callbacks especially) but for some reason or the other I don't feel it. It's a subjective thing. There is certainly enough suggestion in canon to draw on.

[midnightsjane.livejournal.com]

(And I also think fandom likes to sexualize every relationship waaaay too much – sometimes friends ARE just friends, and the bonds of friendship can often be more powerful and longer-lasting than the bonds of boyfriend/girlfriendship.)
Yes! That is my view exactly, and one of the reasons I find the whole slash thing difficult to understand. Love isn't just about sex; it's about trust and shared history and the feeling that another person truly knows who you are.

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

I was a big fan of “Rome” (the HBO series), partly because the central fictional characters were two male friends. And I always resented the fanfic that tried to make them lovers instead.

Love isn't just about sex; it's about trust and shared history and the feeling that another person truly knows who you are.

Absolutely! And even when it is a conventional romance, I always like it better when the couple starts off as friends.

[geekturnedvamp.livejournal.com]

With Lee, I could and still can see something with Zarek, both subtextually and textually, because they have the requisite vibe in all of their scenes and Zarek has had an ironic courtship attitude towards Lee from the get-go, but anyone else/Adama Junior, nah.

Hmm, I actually saw a similar kind of courtship attitude and definitely an attraction on Lee's part in his relationship with Romo Lampkin (especially given Lee's Daddy issues), so I think you could sell me on that turning sexual if the writer built up to it in the right way. Also, I could buy Lee/Sam having drunken angry grief!sex when they think Kara is dead.

I agree with you about Kara/Kat, by the way: I see the show giving it to us, but I just never felt it either.

[takethesky87.livejournal.com]

Re: Dark Knight, you've also got Anthony Michael Hall playing the TV anchor, who also starred in The Dead Zone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dead_Zone_(TV_series)) on USA a few years back. Did he have a psychic vision of the Joker's plans and do nothing to stop it, all in the name of TV ratings? Was Eric Roberts trying to bag and tag him for the Company? The plot thickens. :)

[rivrea.livejournal.com]

*g*

I, too, chuckled quite a bit when I recognized Keith Szarabajka and waited for Detective Stephens to pull out a stake or a crossbow...

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Crossbow would probably have been better with the Joker, but then we'd have had a shorter film.*g*

The funniest Keith Szarabajka moment I experienced was when I rewatched Babylon 5 about three years ago and suddenly when I reached the s2 episode Soulmates went, hang on, I know that voice, is that, can it be? I checked the credits, and it was. Because he guest stars as Talia Winter's weasily little ex husband in the episode, and that role is so completely different that I never would have recognized him.

[rivrea.livejournal.com]

:D

I must admit that I have never seen "Babylon 5" so far. (I was very TV-deprived in my teens; don't ask.) But I have heard so many good things about it that it's definitely on "Should watch someday" list. If only the bloody DVDs weren't so &%*#?! expensive...