Heroes 3.03 One of us, one of them
Oct. 1st, 2008 10:22 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
selenakFirst of all, Christine Rose and Milo Ventimiglia did a podcast for this episode, which the awesome ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
12_12_12 transcribed for those of us who can't access the NBC website for it, here. Go, read it now, it will make you smile for the rest of the day. Containing such gems as "You see, I give all the children over to HRG to babysit. He's like my official babysitter. First he babysat for Claire, and now he's got my baby boy Sylar! Methinks the first was easier." or Milo pleasing fandom with general comments like "Adrian and I talk about wrestling matches between brothers, but...that's another story".
Now, on the episode.
Given that Claire's storyline was undeniably one of the weakest last season, I can't tell you how happy I am about the character stuff she gets this season. And the way it is handled. I forgot to mention in my last review that Claire's reaction to what Sylar did to her struck me as similar as someone's reaction to being raped (so I wasn't surprised that Sandra wondered out loud whether a rape did happen), and I still think this is the subtext they're playing it as. It wasn't sexual, but he did violate her body, and the issue of being made helpless and having taken control over your body away by someone else is similar enough for the parallel to hold. Now, this is a tricky storyline to get right (but very rewarding if they manage it) without falling into a couple of traps. One of which would have been to let Claire retreat into little girldom and have Daddy take care of everything. Which is why I'm really glad that Noah is busy elsewhere and not anywhere near California, and the relevant scenes play out with Claire, Sandra and Meredith. I really appreciate that neither is cast as the "bad" mother, or the "true" mother who understands Claire completely. They both have a point in what they do, but in the end Claire is the only one who can help herself and has to make her own choices, which she does. The one thing Sandra and Meredith agree on is the value of a "normal", protected life for Claire, and that's precisely what, as Claire says, it's too late for. Which isn't to say going on a vengeance gig is the best thing to do, but it's something she has to discover for herself, and the desire not to be a victim anymore, to hurt Sylar back - that's Claire's idea of crashing the car with her and Brody in it written large. The scene with Meredith bringing out the anger and wish to strike back lurking beyond the "I want to help people" was terrific, and has yet another layer if you consider that when Meredith and Claire in essence parted as mother and daughter, way back when, that original death and rebirth that made Claire into a Bennet, it was in a fire.
One more thing about the California girls: Sandra continues to be awesome. I love the continuity; back in early s1, when HRG introduced the fake parents for Claire in order to stop her from enquiring further, Sandra when Claire used the term "bio parents" noted it was "cold" but was also obviously relieved and pleased; she must have been afraid to lose Claire to her biological family. Neither Meredith nor Nathan ever "claimed" Claire in any way later on, when they could have, though Angela did, so the "adoptive versus biological" parents battle never happened, but it's questionable how much Sandra knows about this, and at any rate, Meredith isn't just in her house now because of her biological connection to Claire but as an embodiment of that world of powers that has been endangering Claire - and the rest of the Bennets - for years now. The hostility is all too understandable. Meredith is harder to read and more enigmatic; I think, though, that she actually doesn't want to compete with Sandra in the mother department. It struck me in s1 that Meredith and Nathan aren't dissimilar in their attitudes towards Claire; it's not that they don't care, but after all these years of separation, they can't handle parent roles towards her, especially with Claire almost grown up, and are trying either to run away or to find something else to be towards her.
Speaking of mothers who aren't: more confirmation that Tracey is not another personality of Niki's but is physically another person, and that Niki is irrevocably dead, as the late D.L. The trip to New Orleans was the sensible thing to do - instead of dragging out the "why do I look like this Niki person and who is she?" thing, and if this is the last thing we see of Micah for a while, at least the boy got some sort of closure. (I wonder where Monica is, though, and want her back.) (Mind you, given that Heroes, like Lost, only takes weeks as a time frame for its seasons, they were going to run into trouble with their child actors growing up sooner rather than later, so I'm not surprised Micah seems to be written out. Though a bit sad, because like Molly, he was a good child character, not that common on tv.) Ali does a great job as Tracey, making her different from Niki but not in the way Jessica or Gina were. And it seems my guess is right that Nathan partly hired her because he's still waiting for the punchline and still half convinced she must be Niki pretending. However, my other guess - Niki is in fact the real Jessica - could be wrong, now that we're being told there is a "Barbara" as well, and Dr. Zimmerman (is his first name Lewis, the Trekker in me wonders) apparantly delivered a bunch of blonde babies at his hospital. Clones or genetic experiments, or both?
Regarding genetic experiments: I know it all looks like Angela is telling the truth, but I'm not entirely sure she isn't bluffing or at least telling only a partial truth, because what she does tell Sylar really is his dream fulfillment, shaped to hit on all the buttons he has. Current guess: if he is in fact her biological son, both Peter and Gabriel were the result of trying to have the ultimate power-adapting baby, but they were never meant to be twins, and Victoria or whoever else did the diagnosis concluded this resulted in something extremely unstable, hence the third Summers brother situation. Ooooorrrrr maybe Peter was the result of in vitro fertilisation, and someone, Victoria, Zimmerman or whoever did some more mixing with the genetics so there'd be a second power-adapting child but used another mother as the womb.
Of course, Angela here does the most evil thing we've seen her do yet, and for a woman who backed plan blow up New York, that's saying something. But the Ozymandias plan could in some twisted form be excused as being made for the greater good, as Linderman and Angela saw it; feeding Bridget to Sylar, on the other hand, is murder which benefits no one but Sylar and Angela herself, because that certainly was one hell of an effective "this is what I can give to you if you do my bidding and believe I'm your mother" gesture. Angela also continues to play the family game as far as the touching is concerned. Is there any question whom her boys adopted the body language from? Oh, Petrellis. You do find new and exciting ways to be warped every time we look. Never change.
(I bet Christine Rose had fun, just as with the Heidi seduction scene last year. Why leave all the fun to Milo and Adrian?)
Meanwhile, Noah Bennet finds himself enlisted again, and while it's comforting to know that he plays along so he can find a way to kill Sylar, I'm also amused he at least temporarly ends up as an Angela minion. For those of us who wanted to know, after their face-off on the telephone in the s1 finale, whether in a rematch Noah could hold his own against the Queen, not so much, at least not yet. The Noah and Sylar men in black act is amusing, even for a Sylar disliker such as myself. It also contains one of the most interesting exchanges of the episode, with Noah's "you realize she's playing both of us?" and Sylar's "yes, but don't you want to find out why?" reaction. Given that Sylar takes his prison garb like a good boy at the end (and in fact returns at all instead of leaving after his buffet), I think Angela has him hooked, at least for now; if he doesn't believe she is his mother already, he very much wants to, and he does want that crown prince special status she is dangling in front of him.
The former crown princes, on the other hand, are still having bad days. Not much Nathan in this episode, and the last scene indicates whatever is going on with his mind is still going on, but the face-off with Future!Peter brings on a new tone. Last week, when F!Peter made his confession and asked for forgiveness, Nathan did not give it; what he asked was what he was supposed to do now. This week, he has gained some anger, though it's still not about the shooting as such (though I think that's there underneath); his "where is my brother?" question shows he like Angela has started to cope with the two Peters situation by thinking of them as "my brother = the present one" and the future version, who is and is not a stranger/his brother, as separate people. Whereas last week I think he still thought of them as one; after the revelation, I mean. Plus for all Nathan knew, this future version of Peter was the only one around; he hadn't seen Peter for most of s2, after all.
Present!Peter in Jessie's body continues to have the ultimate bad day, but manages to save a woman from getting killed by blue fire guy, figures out what the power of his host body is just in time, and tries out his earnest empathic ways on Knox, who I hope will stay around, because he's easily the most interesting of the level 5 bunch, with his angry argument towards Noah Bennet a pretty good one. It's a pity Jessie got killed off because Francis Capra really impressed me both as Peter and as Jessie, shortly as we saw him. And now we're off to another trip to the future. Which shows Future!Peter isn't thinking clearly, because the future he wants to show Present!Peter as a justification for his actions doesn't exist anymore in the way he remembers it, due to the changes he made already. Or... does it? The Five Years Gone future did exist after Future!Hiro contacted Peter, but that was because F!Hiro was working from a faulty premise - believing Sylar to be responsible for the blow-up-New-York event when it fact it had been Peter.
Speaking of Hiro: he, Ando and Daphne are clearly headed for a threesome. What?
12_12_12 transcribed for those of us who can't access the NBC website for it, here. Go, read it now, it will make you smile for the rest of the day. Containing such gems as "You see, I give all the children over to HRG to babysit. He's like my official babysitter. First he babysat for Claire, and now he's got my baby boy Sylar! Methinks the first was easier." or Milo pleasing fandom with general comments like "Adrian and I talk about wrestling matches between brothers, but...that's another story". Now, on the episode.
Given that Claire's storyline was undeniably one of the weakest last season, I can't tell you how happy I am about the character stuff she gets this season. And the way it is handled. I forgot to mention in my last review that Claire's reaction to what Sylar did to her struck me as similar as someone's reaction to being raped (so I wasn't surprised that Sandra wondered out loud whether a rape did happen), and I still think this is the subtext they're playing it as. It wasn't sexual, but he did violate her body, and the issue of being made helpless and having taken control over your body away by someone else is similar enough for the parallel to hold. Now, this is a tricky storyline to get right (but very rewarding if they manage it) without falling into a couple of traps. One of which would have been to let Claire retreat into little girldom and have Daddy take care of everything. Which is why I'm really glad that Noah is busy elsewhere and not anywhere near California, and the relevant scenes play out with Claire, Sandra and Meredith. I really appreciate that neither is cast as the "bad" mother, or the "true" mother who understands Claire completely. They both have a point in what they do, but in the end Claire is the only one who can help herself and has to make her own choices, which she does. The one thing Sandra and Meredith agree on is the value of a "normal", protected life for Claire, and that's precisely what, as Claire says, it's too late for. Which isn't to say going on a vengeance gig is the best thing to do, but it's something she has to discover for herself, and the desire not to be a victim anymore, to hurt Sylar back - that's Claire's idea of crashing the car with her and Brody in it written large. The scene with Meredith bringing out the anger and wish to strike back lurking beyond the "I want to help people" was terrific, and has yet another layer if you consider that when Meredith and Claire in essence parted as mother and daughter, way back when, that original death and rebirth that made Claire into a Bennet, it was in a fire.
One more thing about the California girls: Sandra continues to be awesome. I love the continuity; back in early s1, when HRG introduced the fake parents for Claire in order to stop her from enquiring further, Sandra when Claire used the term "bio parents" noted it was "cold" but was also obviously relieved and pleased; she must have been afraid to lose Claire to her biological family. Neither Meredith nor Nathan ever "claimed" Claire in any way later on, when they could have, though Angela did, so the "adoptive versus biological" parents battle never happened, but it's questionable how much Sandra knows about this, and at any rate, Meredith isn't just in her house now because of her biological connection to Claire but as an embodiment of that world of powers that has been endangering Claire - and the rest of the Bennets - for years now. The hostility is all too understandable. Meredith is harder to read and more enigmatic; I think, though, that she actually doesn't want to compete with Sandra in the mother department. It struck me in s1 that Meredith and Nathan aren't dissimilar in their attitudes towards Claire; it's not that they don't care, but after all these years of separation, they can't handle parent roles towards her, especially with Claire almost grown up, and are trying either to run away or to find something else to be towards her.
Speaking of mothers who aren't: more confirmation that Tracey is not another personality of Niki's but is physically another person, and that Niki is irrevocably dead, as the late D.L. The trip to New Orleans was the sensible thing to do - instead of dragging out the "why do I look like this Niki person and who is she?" thing, and if this is the last thing we see of Micah for a while, at least the boy got some sort of closure. (I wonder where Monica is, though, and want her back.) (Mind you, given that Heroes, like Lost, only takes weeks as a time frame for its seasons, they were going to run into trouble with their child actors growing up sooner rather than later, so I'm not surprised Micah seems to be written out. Though a bit sad, because like Molly, he was a good child character, not that common on tv.) Ali does a great job as Tracey, making her different from Niki but not in the way Jessica or Gina were. And it seems my guess is right that Nathan partly hired her because he's still waiting for the punchline and still half convinced she must be Niki pretending. However, my other guess - Niki is in fact the real Jessica - could be wrong, now that we're being told there is a "Barbara" as well, and Dr. Zimmerman (is his first name Lewis, the Trekker in me wonders) apparantly delivered a bunch of blonde babies at his hospital. Clones or genetic experiments, or both?
Regarding genetic experiments: I know it all looks like Angela is telling the truth, but I'm not entirely sure she isn't bluffing or at least telling only a partial truth, because what she does tell Sylar really is his dream fulfillment, shaped to hit on all the buttons he has. Current guess: if he is in fact her biological son, both Peter and Gabriel were the result of trying to have the ultimate power-adapting baby, but they were never meant to be twins, and Victoria or whoever else did the diagnosis concluded this resulted in something extremely unstable, hence the third Summers brother situation. Ooooorrrrr maybe Peter was the result of in vitro fertilisation, and someone, Victoria, Zimmerman or whoever did some more mixing with the genetics so there'd be a second power-adapting child but used another mother as the womb.
Of course, Angela here does the most evil thing we've seen her do yet, and for a woman who backed plan blow up New York, that's saying something. But the Ozymandias plan could in some twisted form be excused as being made for the greater good, as Linderman and Angela saw it; feeding Bridget to Sylar, on the other hand, is murder which benefits no one but Sylar and Angela herself, because that certainly was one hell of an effective "this is what I can give to you if you do my bidding and believe I'm your mother" gesture. Angela also continues to play the family game as far as the touching is concerned. Is there any question whom her boys adopted the body language from? Oh, Petrellis. You do find new and exciting ways to be warped every time we look. Never change.
(I bet Christine Rose had fun, just as with the Heidi seduction scene last year. Why leave all the fun to Milo and Adrian?)
Meanwhile, Noah Bennet finds himself enlisted again, and while it's comforting to know that he plays along so he can find a way to kill Sylar, I'm also amused he at least temporarly ends up as an Angela minion. For those of us who wanted to know, after their face-off on the telephone in the s1 finale, whether in a rematch Noah could hold his own against the Queen, not so much, at least not yet. The Noah and Sylar men in black act is amusing, even for a Sylar disliker such as myself. It also contains one of the most interesting exchanges of the episode, with Noah's "you realize she's playing both of us?" and Sylar's "yes, but don't you want to find out why?" reaction. Given that Sylar takes his prison garb like a good boy at the end (and in fact returns at all instead of leaving after his buffet), I think Angela has him hooked, at least for now; if he doesn't believe she is his mother already, he very much wants to, and he does want that crown prince special status she is dangling in front of him.
The former crown princes, on the other hand, are still having bad days. Not much Nathan in this episode, and the last scene indicates whatever is going on with his mind is still going on, but the face-off with Future!Peter brings on a new tone. Last week, when F!Peter made his confession and asked for forgiveness, Nathan did not give it; what he asked was what he was supposed to do now. This week, he has gained some anger, though it's still not about the shooting as such (though I think that's there underneath); his "where is my brother?" question shows he like Angela has started to cope with the two Peters situation by thinking of them as "my brother = the present one" and the future version, who is and is not a stranger/his brother, as separate people. Whereas last week I think he still thought of them as one; after the revelation, I mean. Plus for all Nathan knew, this future version of Peter was the only one around; he hadn't seen Peter for most of s2, after all.
Present!Peter in Jessie's body continues to have the ultimate bad day, but manages to save a woman from getting killed by blue fire guy, figures out what the power of his host body is just in time, and tries out his earnest empathic ways on Knox, who I hope will stay around, because he's easily the most interesting of the level 5 bunch, with his angry argument towards Noah Bennet a pretty good one. It's a pity Jessie got killed off because Francis Capra really impressed me both as Peter and as Jessie, shortly as we saw him. And now we're off to another trip to the future. Which shows Future!Peter isn't thinking clearly, because the future he wants to show Present!Peter as a justification for his actions doesn't exist anymore in the way he remembers it, due to the changes he made already. Or... does it? The Five Years Gone future did exist after Future!Hiro contacted Peter, but that was because F!Hiro was working from a faulty premise - believing Sylar to be responsible for the blow-up-New-York event when it fact it had been Peter.
Speaking of Hiro: he, Ando and Daphne are clearly headed for a threesome. What?
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2008-10-01 10:49 am (UTC)You're not the only one!
Speaking of Hiro: he, Ando and Daphne are clearly headed for a threesome. What?
:D :D :D
no subject
Date: 2008-10-01 10:56 am (UTC)Poor Peter. Only he would be bond with the criminal in a hostage situation. xD I'd like to see him and Knox together again--Knox isn't your stereotypical thuggish villain, which is interesting. Cadesama pointed out that he's also a kind of dark mirror to Peter, because instead of feeding off and encouraging the good in others, he draws strength from their fear.
I don't think F!Hiro was working under false premises--I think, in the future the original F!Hiro came from, Sylar did blow up NYC. Peter stopped that by saving Claire, at which point the timeline/universe shifted to one where Peter was the bomb. It seems like the Heroes universe is self-correcting, too, though not nearly to the same extent as in Lost.
no subject
Date: 2008-10-01 11:32 am (UTC)I think S3 is starting out better than S2 and hope it continues that way.
no subject
Date: 2008-10-01 11:33 am (UTC)Right there with you. Aside from the fact that we've been there and done that with Brody, letting Daddy take over is the most essential obstacle that Claire needs to overcome to truly be heroic herself and determine her life. The ultimate expression of how wrong that path is for her is 5YG -- she's in hiding, living a "normal" life, and relying entirely on Noah for guidance in what she does next. That's pretty much rock bottom. Future!Claire this go around looks like the opposite direction of badness -- so much independence that she has given up entirely on the idea of human connection as anything worth saving.
Meredith isn't just in her house now because of her biological connection to Claire but as an embodiment of that world of powers that has been endangering Claire - and the rest of the Bennets - for years now.
Well, months, technically, as far as Sandra actually recollects in the time line.
I would definitely like to see more from Sandra and Lyle on this issue, either with Meredith or just with Noah. This is a world they never asked to be a part of and aren't given the tools to handle. They actually remind me of the Dursleys in that respect (you know, ignoring the child abuse thing). Always pushed around by people with powers and victimized for just being normal and somehow expected to catch up without anyone ever explaining.
Ooooorrrrr maybe Peter was the result of in vitro fertilisation, and someone, Victoria, Zimmerman or whoever did some more mixing with the genetics so there'd be a second power-adapting child but used another mother as the womb.
I'm still betting on a mix of these theories. I think they were tinkering with what causes powers (hence what Kaito and Angela's formula most likely adds up to) and trying to make the most powerful person ever. Because fertility treatments often result in multiple births, we got Peter and Sylar out of it (and most likely Niki-Jessica-Tracey-Barbara in a similar scheme years earlier). And for some reason, maybe a twin study, they decided to only raise one kid themselves.
Now, the real question for me is if the Petrellis honestly thought they were the non-sociopathic option.
Or... does it? The Five Years Gone future did exist after Future!Hiro contacted Peter, but that was because F!Hiro was working from a faulty premise - believing Sylar to be responsible for the blow-up-New-York event when it fact it had been Peter.
If you read the Behind the Eclipse articles that Comicbook Resources puts out, they address a similar question there. The thing is, so far we've seen that their reality is very hard to change. So no matter what Angela says, it's unlikely Future!Peter actually made them crash off onto a different course In the comics, at least, it really was Sylar who blew up NYC after regenerating from the sword wound Hiro gave him. But that event was destined, so Sylar not regenerating just led to 5YG where Peter exploded.
I think we're in a similar situation here. Nathan was going to reveal them to the world, but was stopped. But how likely is it that mutants could stay a secret when Mohinder is developing a superpower serum? It gets out, one way or another, and leads to a future very similar to Future!Peter's.
Speaking of Hiro: he, Ando and Daphne are clearly headed for a threesome. What?
As Cristine Rose said it's meant to be. :D
Oh, and one more thing...
Date: 2008-10-01 12:32 pm (UTC)(Also note that at the end, Milo calls Sandra "Real Mom." As opposed to what Peter would probably say...*G*)
no subject
Date: 2008-10-01 12:58 pm (UTC)I'm leaning somewhere in this direction. I have to say all the possibilities are all really interesting. There is also the warped thing that Angela was attacked by a villain and it's a miss-direction thing. Playing on our expectations of Angela and the Kaito info we know.
When Crisitine said (on the best commentary ever!") that the hunger is genetic I thought "you or daddy". Heroes is famous for taking us down the path THEY have made us expect and then as Milo said about all we have known before "turn it on it's head." HRG, anyone?
But the genetic angle really seems like it. I'm super exited the Tracy storyline is following the movie "Anna to the infinite power" - Even Zimmerman is a homage to that.
...on the other hand, is murder which benefits no one but Sylar and Angela herself, because that certainly was one hell of an effective "this is what I can give to you if you do my bidding and believe I'm your mother" gesture.
I am hoping it's for a higher purpose - if not for the writers to have another way to do a flashback episode, but for a real reason for Angela. I mean why this power? I like to think it's not random "feed me."
But she is trying to save the world from the future she dreams - get Peter back, what's one death - it's collateral damage. It's still pretty wicked. :) And in character.
But I am hoping she picked THAT power for Sylar for a reason yet to be revealed.
Oh, I think you were one of the people who wanted to read my Angela life story fiction when it was done. Am I right? Sorry, If I"m not. Well, I'm done. I have links on the left and right of my LJ. I look forward to your thoughts.
no subject
Date: 2008-10-01 01:30 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-01 01:34 pm (UTC)Yes. This isn't about Claire siding with either of them, or either of them being right. They can help her, but in the end she's the one who has to decide - and should decide - who she's going to be.
Well, Knox isn't going anywhere right now, until the next breakout, at least. *g* So I expect we'll see him again, and it would make sense if it would be with Peter, since they got these scenes already.
Self-correcting universe: and in any version, Peter is due to get a scar. I'm really interested in how that will come about. Since it's clearly not due to New York getting wiped out...
no subject
Date: 2008-10-01 01:42 pm (UTC)She has to find a path in between these two extremes, obviously. But it has to be without Noah guiding her every step on the way. (Not that he would guide into independence direction anyway - this is the man whose idea of coping with teenage rebellion was to tie her up.)
Sandra and Lyle: you know, I was stunned when LYLE GOT ACTUAL LINES. About the family situation, no less. Well done, show; more, please. I'm curious whether or not Sandra will go after Claire. She does have another child to take care off, and if I were Lyle, I'd be massively resentful at this point anyway that their entire life has become about Claire. So my guess is Sandra won't, but Meredith will, with Sandra making her promise to report constantly, and in the end both of them will have to come to the conclusion Claire needs to be on her own for a while. Although I would like Meredith to follow her to New York City, if that's where she's headed again, because then we'd get a Meredith-Angela scene which I can't wait to see.
Now, the real question for me is if the Petrellis honestly thought they were the non-sociopathic option.
Bwawahhaaa. Yes. Well. We don't have any idea whether Arthur thought they were. Nathan is pretty clear on the concept that they're hopeless as a family. (See "they're like us" - "dysfunctional?" joke in s1 and the deleted "we're Petrellis, Ma" scene in s2) Present day Peter might have harbored delusions until recently, or did he? Angela? Angela probably thinks they're so unique categories don't apply.*g*
no subject
Date: 2008-10-01 01:52 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-01 01:57 pm (UTC)Claire's storyline looks like it's going in a good direction, with her taking the reins of her own life.
Peter and Nathan and Tracy arcs look like they'll intersect in interesting ways.
The Haitian, yay!
no subject
Date: 2008-10-01 02:02 pm (UTC)His idea of "independence" for Claire is her going to Bryn Mawr or similar, taking a completely mundane job, and then living the life he has faked. Whether she chooses to or not.
So my guess is Sandra won't, but Meredith will, with Sandra making her promise to report constantly, and in the end both of them will have to come to the conclusion Claire needs to be on her own for a while.
Agreed. That show down should be interesting to see. It would be funny if Lyle got a second.line of the season and piped up about how they could all go to look for Claire. He probably should be resentful, but right now he just sounds intrigued by all the powers stuff.
because then we'd get a Meredith-Angela scene which I can't wait to see.
That would be beautiful. I hope Meredith actually sticks around long enough for that to happen. I'd really like to see a full Petrelli-Bennet reunion with her in attendance as well.
We don't have any idea whether Arthur thought they were.
Hard to tell. I would think he'd agree with Angela on them defying categories, since he was also one of Adam's disciples and I think that group as a whole was into the idea of the Petrellis ruling the world.
Present day Peter might have harbored delusions until recently, or did he?
Hmm, you know, I think he wasn't that deluded about their family. He clearly didn't know the whole super villain thing, but his own relationship with Arthur was fraught enough that his daddy issues are easy for others to prod. He probably just took them as an example of how you can find hope even in the most screwed up families. Because they do love each other. He just refuses to see that as part of the problem, instead of the answer.
no subject
Date: 2008-10-01 02:12 pm (UTC)If they had kept that deleted s1 scene where Lyle and Claire talk about both being adopted, I'd say Lyle could wonder whether Noah got him from the Company, too, but I'm not sure Lyle being adopted as well is canon anymore. Deleted scenes are quirky that way. (Though of course all deleted scenes with Angela in them are canon.*g*)
I would think he'd agree with Angela on them defying categories, since he was also one of Adam's disciples and I think that group as a whole was into the idea of the Petrellis ruling the world.
Except Adam himself. I'm still fond of my fanon that the moment where Angela renounced him wasn't when she discovered his virus plan but when she realized he was immortal and thus would never make room for the Petrellis to ascend after ruling the world himself.
but his own relationship with Arthur was fraught enough that his daddy issues are easy for others to prod.
Well, yes, but Daddy issues are pretty much par the course. The part where true Petrelli dysfunctionality comes in is when Peter's big trauma about Arthur's death isn't "omg dad is dead and we never got along!" but "omg Nathan says he 'can't be with me anymore' now that dad is dead!".
Because they do love each other. He just refuses to see that as part of the problem, instead of the answer.
Mind you, the two future versions of Peter we've seen so far who did separate from the other Petrellis because of what they didn't are if anything more, not less messed up, so seeing love as hope isn't entirely off...
no subject
Date: 2008-10-01 02:14 pm (UTC)Haven't seen "Anna to the infinite power" - what's it about?
Yes, the nature of Bridget's power sounded very specific, and there probably is a reason why she wanted Sylar to have it. All the same, I stand by my claim this is the most evil thing Angela did so far.
no subject
Date: 2008-10-01 02:16 pm (UTC)I can't resist calling Ando and Hiro "The Dynamic Duo" now, damn Hiro and his Batman allusions...
Re: Oh, and one more thing...
Date: 2008-10-01 02:16 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-01 02:21 pm (UTC)But of course! As to Lyle, I think they're pretty much going with him being biological. Or an above board adoption where he knows his bio-parents and has never had any major angst about it.
I'm still fond of my fanon that the moment where Angela renounced him wasn't when she discovered his virus plan but when she realized he was immortal and thus would never make room for the Petrellis to ascend after ruling the world himself.
Heh, makes sense to me. I'm shocked she tolerated being so low on the order of succession at the Company, really. Bob didn't seem on board with the Petrellis ruling everything. Makes me wonder if Arthur's death sent her and Linderman into a tailspin or trying to keep control of the Company to ensure the explosion happened and that they would remain the power behind the throne.
The part where true Petrelli dysfunctionality comes in is when Peter's big trauma about Arthur's death isn't "omg dad is dead and we never got along!" but "omg Nathan says he 'can't be with me anymore' now that dad is dead!".
Well, that's something I'm not even sure Nathan sees for the problem it is. He knows for a fact that if there's a choice between Peter and his wife and children, he chooses Peter. Does this seem to tear him up? Not really. Most of his early S2 angst seems directed at himself for even considering the alternative.
Mind you, the two future versions of Peter we've seen so far who did separate from the other Petrellis because of what they didn't are if anything more, not less messed up, so seeing love as hope isn't entirely off...
True, but he's also pretty distant from really caring about people in both futures. He cares some for individuals, but he's lost the heart that cared about everyone he met (interesting, since that seems vital to his ability), and it's clear that part of why he lost that was what his family did to him, as much as his own deeds.
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Date: 2008-10-01 02:35 pm (UTC)A young girl named Anna has these dreams of being other people. She also see's a girl on TV with her name who looks like her. She discovers her mother was part of a cloning experiment. Women we're implanted with the clones of a women named "Anna Zimmerman" (when I looked up the movie again and saw the name Zimmerman, I flipped) So, the women actually gave birth to the girls, but they don't carry their DNA. All the clones look alike, but have different personalities based on the environment they grew up in _ one is shy, one is a tom boy - etc. But they all have similar traits. They also all get headaches at flickering lights, like candles. Anna Zimmerman died in a fire.
ETA: The nature / nurture issue here is why I think all the clones have different powers.
Also, interesting is Anna meets the first clone, a women who is much older and so is literally looking at the women she will become.
All the same, I stand by my claim this is the most evil thing Angela did so far.
And I don't dispute it. I do like how Cristine played it. Angela is all proud of herself, but after she hears the screams her entire face changes to steal. As if she has to block out the fact that she did a bad thing. Angela knows what she does is bad and that may be the most interesting part. I would never justify a person in real life, but on TV i can see it's for a greater good. But its bad! I was floored. I agree with you for sure.
Another reason I loved the line to HRG about Sylar being a killer "Something you have in common"
I'm on the road right now, and thus unable to read the entire series, but am planning on doing so once I have the time, and will feedback when I do, promise.
When you do, don't worry. :) In the mean time I'm enjoy our Angela discussion and your posts.
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Date: 2008-10-01 02:39 pm (UTC)The Zimmerman connection seems hard to ignore, I think they were influenced by it and Tracy will follow a similar idea.
It would be interesting if the women the cloned was a contemporary of the founders. Ali could do flashbacks. And I wonder if the original women is dead or alive?
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Date: 2008-10-01 02:54 pm (UTC)In Heroes, it's probably all connected, so that we'll get the info doled in tidbits that Niki/Jessica/Tracy/Barbara are clones of Adam, or the result of experimenting with his DNA by Zimmerman, because I don't think there are blondes of the Elder geneeration that we've seen (although I may not recall clearly). But they do seem to have family coloring as a theme, with the Petrellis and/or Sylar (?), with Meredith & Claire, HRG/Sandra and Lyle, etc.
Wasn't Elle also adopted?
Rambling aside, if they stick to that in more than names/blonde clones, then would Nathan or the governor possibly play a Rowan-type role, resentful/protective?
If they use music as a trigger for Tracy for anything, I'll probably clap and laugh out loud.
Sorry to cut in like this, but...
Date: 2008-10-01 02:57 pm (UTC)The character is from a BBC internet game connected to Heroes, much like the two agents Sylar killed in the "home video sequence" in 5.02 were characters from the graphic novel. I think they specifically mentioned her power because it was important for the game.
(And yes, they let people from the outer material join the show in cameos to kill them. They do have a very special sort of humour.)
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Date: 2008-10-01 02:58 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-01 03:22 pm (UTC)It use to be on TV a lot when I was very, very young.
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Date: 2008-10-01 03:27 pm (UTC)I tend to think it's a clone of an actually women, one I'd gather like Anna Zimmerman died before the clones were born - hence why she isn't in the photo. I don't think you can call taking Adam's DNA and someone else's egg and call it a clone, just my thoughts.
Wasn't Elle also adopted?
I know many people think so because of the ying and yang of Elle and Claire, but there is no proof on the show, as of now. I tend to think she isn't adopted and was Bob's daughter, after all he did have a power.
If they use music as a trigger for Tracy for anything, I'll probably clap and laugh out loud.
Lol!
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Date: 2008-10-01 04:06 pm (UTC)If the original woman is still alive, I hope they have her on the show - I'd like to see if they put Ali Larter in old-age makeup or can find a very similar-appearing actress.
Oh, gee, what if they got Majel Barrett to play a part? She could go blonde and be a matching grandmother for Nichelle Nichols. Ooooh, Claire's other grandmother!
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Date: 2008-10-01 04:18 pm (UTC)Totally! I have to say I'm a fan of finding an older women, they could really have acting moments.
Oh, gee, what if they got Majel Barrett to play a part?
I really love her! Is she still a brunette? Maybe a Petrelli?
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Date: 2008-10-01 06:35 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-01 06:41 pm (UTC)I think it would be more fear, after all she has the Haitian on her side - and it becomes it's own story away from the main plot. I don't see the Company going anywhere any time soon.
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Date: 2008-10-01 07:48 pm (UTC)My other fanon is that Bob used Linderman's unexpected death to stage a coup d'etat - he wasn't due to succeed actually - which is why he had a sort of soft spot for Niki. (Having figured out who likely killed Linderman.) And recruited her. See my Bob and Niki story of months past.*g*
Well, that's something I'm not even sure Nathan sees for the problem it is. He knows for a fact that if there's a choice between Peter and his wife and children, he chooses Peter. Does this seem to tear him up? Not really. Most of his early S2 angst seems directed at himself for even considering the alternative.
True enough. I mean, I think he's aware that this isn't normal and messed up, but not in the sense of perceiving it as something he wants to change. He feels guilty re: his children and Heidi, but I think it's for the separation per se, not because he put Peter first. His major attempt to put Peter second was the period between Arthur's death and Nothing To Hide, but Homecoming at the latest put an end to that. We'll see the aftereffects of the repeated death-and-resurrection experiences and the fratricide now, I suppose, but somehow I doubt they'll make Nathan more functional vis a vis his family priorities.
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Date: 2008-10-01 09:08 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-01 09:13 pm (UTC)I just think the show has so much to deal with and a storyline where the people within the company take it over and oust Angela doesn't seem like it is going to happen, from my POV.
So, I'm going with the fear factor. Don't speak up or you get feed to the lions.
Nice chatting with you. :)
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Date: 2008-10-01 09:19 pm (UTC)Lol. I so agree. The fact that they are refereed in other scenes also helps.
My other fanon is that Bob used Linderman's unexpected death to stage a coup d'etat...
I totally agree and in fact wrote it that way myself.
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Date: 2008-10-02 01:29 am (UTC)Petrellis? Get more functional! LOL, I doubt it.
I am actually wondering if we'll get a flashback to their home life when Peter and Nathan were younger, though. Because they must have been more functional than they are right now, for it to be even moderately surprising what a sociopath Angela is.
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Date: 2008-10-02 02:26 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-02 02:29 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-12 03:39 pm (UTC)That was what was suggested in S1, but in S2 he could use people's abilities even when he had no conscious memory of the people in question.
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Date: 2008-10-12 03:41 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-10-12 04:13 pm (UTC)