West Wing thought and Sarah Connor Chronicles review (2.13 Earthlings are welcome here)

[selenak]

You know, there are pros and cons to coming to a tv fandom after a show is over, with the canon finished. On the one hand, you miss out of all the intense post-episode discussions, but on the other, you're spared the utter obnoxiousness of shipping wars and the (usually, but not always, female) character bashing that often goes with it. This not very original thought is brought to you by me having read the West Wing overview at crack_van (which was posted at the start of the fifth season) wherein Amy Gardner is described as "a woman named Amy Gardner who is obnoxiously awful and keeps trying to get with Josh" , and Andrea Wyatt, in a comment to said overview, as "the sperm thief". Behold me staring in disbelief. I mean, I get people not liking Amy. I do (and am still disgruntled Wells ended her relationship with Abbey), but she's abrasive enough to make it understandable she's not to everyone's taste; but as far as I recall, and I watched rather recently, it was Josh who was doing all the chasing during their on/off relationship. As for the Andy comment - I have no words. Wait, I do. I want an Andrea Wyatt and Toby Ziegler icon. Theirs is exactly the type of relationship that would make slashers be beside themselves with glee if Andy were a man - exes who still have a strong connection to each other, great chemistry and yet also haven't forgotten (well, Andrea hasn't) why they broke up to begin with. They're the Charles Xavier and Erik Lehnsherr of the political scene, I tell you.

Speaking of icons, I still haven't found one to my taste for The Sarah Connor Chronicles, so I'm going to make a shameless Christmas present request. Not that there aren't some gorgeous ones out there of individual cast members, but my dream icon would be one that shows Sarah, John and Cameron at the same time. If James Ellison is also there, it would be fantastic, but I know that's tricky to accomplish. No Derek, please. Not that I have anything against Derek, but he's so not the reason why I watch the show.

Which bring's me to this week's T: SCC review:



Trust this show to use UFO believers in a non-mocking way, and without bringing in aliens. I'm less happy about the fact that the first trans character we see on the show dies, but to be fair, that tends to happen to a lot of people Sarah forms a connection with. (Unless they save themselves, as Lauren did last week.) Still, the scenes between Sarah and Alan/Eileen/Abraham were fascinating. The former Alan was forced to adopt a new identity by the threat to his/her life, but found freedom in this new identity, which turned out to be the true one. Sarah, as we were reminded again, had to be her old self behind as well, Sarah the waitress and innocent, she had to transform, but she would probably say that Sarah the warrior is her true self as well. And yet there was a price. The show made a big deal out of the fact Sarah had not killed a human being yet. (Though everyone else, including John, has.) By the end of this episode, she finally has, and it's another moment of death/rebirth for her. I mean, no one seriously believes Sarah will die. Her name is in the title, after all. But she just lost another bit of the past, and yet, how could she not? She is a survivor.

Riley, on the other hand, is an intended sacrifice. In one of the flashbacks, she asks Jesse why Jesse picked her to go to the past with, and Jesse doesn't reply. I think one of the commentators to an earlier review was right, and the reason is Riley's vulnerability and suicidalness; Jesse didn't just intend a distraction from Cameron for the younger John Connor but ultimately wants a situation where Cameron is directly responsible for Riley's death, preferably in front of John. Leaving this speculation aside, the scenes with Riley reacting in wonder to a non-apocalyptic world after she and Jesse first came through had a surprising pathos, and so did Riley's begging Jesse later. Whether or not her current suicide attempt will be successful: if this were the season finale, I'd say yes, but it's only half the season over, so I don't think so. It will, however, have demonstrated that something far beyond "disaffected teen" is wrong with Riley. (Though if she's not in a condition to speak, John will probably assume she did it because her foster parents kicked her out and that her foster father was responsible for her bruise, despite her denial. At this point, the only one able to point to Jesse is Riley herself, and I don't think she'll give her up yet.)

The James Ellison subplot I really, really love in this episode. I mean, I love Ellison in general, but the whole set-up here pushes my buttons. Maybe it's the Star Trek fan in me, but I don't believe in someone "born evil", and certainly not an Artificial Intelligence, so Ellison after that conversation with his pastor deciding that whatever else it is, "John Henry" is a child and he has a responsibility was great to see, as was their subsequent scene. Future Skynet or not. The question as to whether you can teach an AI right from wrong, and the value of life is fascinating, and I trust this show not to answer it in a simplified manner. (Mind you, Ellison clearly hasn't watched BSG if he thinks religion is conductive to keeping cyborgs from genocide.:)) Which isn't to say that knowing right from wrong and recognizing the value of life with automatically make a sentient being a good one. Just look at a lot of people on this planet. But to not attempt teaching to begin with just strikes me as wrong.

Comments

[thepandorarose.livejournal.com]

Totally agree on your West Wing thoughts. I knew people didn't like Amy, but I figured they we're all Donna/Josh fans - which is fine, but Amy and Josh we're great together and he was for sure going after her.

And the Andy thing is surprising. But I tend to see in fandom, much like in life people see things from a certain side that is clouded by their feelings in one way of another.

I can LOVE Danny and CJ, but still see how great she was with Simon.

And see how so much a like and imperfect Amy and Josh we're together and still enjoy Josh and Donna - although for much of the show I thought he saw her as a substitute for his dead sister, Joanie...I was wrong.

Also, I forget to comment last time on the lack of Amy Garner after (five was it?). I believe a lot of that has to do with the actress being Pregnant. I think on her last episode she's holding a box and there are a lot of tight shots. And then of course bonding with her child and living in NYC. I remembering reading it at the time.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I knew people didn't like Amy, but I figured they we're all Donna/Josh fans - which is fine, but Amy and Josh were great together and he was for sure going after her.

Exactly. I never thought they'd work as a couple long-term wise - they were too similar and competitive for that - but in the meantime, they were compelling and fun to watch. Josh decorating his flat for her as Tahiti was a favorite scene for me. As was Amy (accurately) deducing he likes getting hit on the head.

I can LOVE Danny and CJ, but still see how great she was with Simon.

Yes. I don't get that lack of ability to enjoy more than one relationship for characters one likes, either. Especially if it comes with a need to speak ill of whichever character is perceived as an obstacle to a pairing.

The actress being pregnant: ah, okay, that's different. In that case, all is forgiven and I understand why there was no Amy in season 5 and most of 6.

[ide-cyan.livejournal.com]

The Ellison stuff was weighty -- he had to know he was playing the part of the snake in the Garden of Eden. Or perhaps the apple.

I was actually worried for Sarah, because, name in the title or not, a female lead in a franchise where her son is poised to become saviour of the world seems like someone that network execs might want to shove out of the way, although I do know that the showrunners in this case are on her side.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Though he may have concluded that since the Eden of not knowing good from evil still resulted in death, JH was fallen either way.

Even were the showrunners not on Sarah's side and interested in keeping their heroine alive, ruthless pragmatism would dictate that they do. I mean, according to pre-film publicity the next Terminator movie will deal with the John Connor leading the resistance plot. It would be pointless to double that on a tv budget and with no Christian Bale. So: I'm confident in Sarah's survival!

[ide-cyan.livejournal.com]

I'm more pessimistic -- a successful T4 could very well mean the TV execs just wanting more of John Connor, Bale or no Bale, 'cause they'd have a character kicking ass without ovaries who wasn't as necessary to cast against type as the one previously incarnated by the Governor of California. They'd only have to recast the character for his older post-apocalyptic incarnation. Though the expensiveness of the special effects could mitigate that temptation a bit, setting-wise at least.

(Basically: TV execs picking complementarity over imitation? Yeah, no, I wouldn't bet on that.)

[seriousfic.livejournal.com]

Of course, the last time Sarah was deliberately prepared to kill someone was Miles Dyson in T2, which makes me wonder if the callbacks to the institutionalized Sarah were reworking the No Fate line into something a bit more bleak. We can determine our own fate, but in doing so, we determine our own fate.

[skywaterblue.livejournal.com]

Ah, sperm thief. I remember that. To be perfectly fair to those people, as offensive as the statement is the show never does care to tell us the circumstances under which Andy finally conceives. It seems unlikely that Toby objected, although I'd far from white wash him as someone who completely wanted the children.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

To be perfectly fair to those people, as offensive as the statement is the show never does care to tell us the circumstances under which Andy finally conceives.

No, and I agree that Toby's feelings on the wanting children subject probably were ambiguous right until he saw them in front of him, but the way the term was used was in a context of "I ship Toby with CJ and we have no proof that he and Andy did have sex again!".

(Incidentally, is your icon from him waving at her when he saw her alive on CNN? I just rewatched that.)

Did people think at the time it made a difference whether or not the children were conceived in vitro or via sex? Because really, the show showed Toby still having feelings for Andy as soon as she showed up in the series, long before she got pregnant.

Footnote: what do you make of Toby's hesitancy to tell the President about the out-of-wedlock pregnancy (when he did tell everyone else), and then showing up in the middle of the election night to tell him? Really because of the Catholicism or because of dad shock issues?

[skywaterblue.livejournal.com]

I think there's enough evidence to suggest he remained somewhat ambiguous about the twins LONG after they were born. We have Toby complaining about Andy bitching about who is caring for them while she's away in Gaza. Which is incidentally, yes, the very same episode in my icon. ;) He's also somewhat obstinate towards his lawyer when said lawyer suggests that Toby cut a deal for the sake of his children. He obviously cares for them, but I'd say there's a far far line between caring for your children and being willing to sacrifice to be a good parent.

Did people think at the time it made a difference whether or not the children were conceived in vitro or via sex? Because really, the show showed Toby still having feelings for Andy as soon as she showed up in the series, long before she got pregnant.

I think in terms of the ship and other people shipping, they cared to know if Toby and Andy were sleeping together again. For the record, I don't think they ever were. I think given what we're told about Andy's fertility problems and the timeframe, she must have used the sperm and I think Toby probably gave it to her in the divorce since I personally think he never really did consider them divorced.

It seems obvious to me that the two prefer to live apart and not romantically, but were mutually unwilling to pursue other partners. (I guess Andy, when we meet her, is dating a baseball manager, but we never hear of it again.) Thus making it less a divorce, except legally, and more some sort of distant and open relationship.

Footnote: what do you make of Toby's hesitancy to tell the President about the out-of-wedlock pregnancy (when he did tell everyone else), and then showing up in the middle of the election night to tell him? Really because of the Catholicism or because of dad shock issues?

It's a made up excuse for his dad shock issues. What I find difficult to believe is that after blabbing to the entire senior staff, it somehow escaped Abbey and Jed. *g* That is one chatty group of people.

[danel4d.livejournal.com]

Oddly enough, I'd assumed that you'd combine the two themes and mention the sheer visceral hatred that Riley gets from the John/Cameron shippers, some of whom are utterly gleeful about her (attempted) suicide in this ep. I can understand why people might not like Riley - the writers took the unusual decision to introduce this deeply peculiar young woman before they started to reveal why she acts like she does, so people already disliked her before things were clarified.

I did like this episode, even with the strange and confusing ending, but some of the commentary I've seen complains that this show is as confusing and slow as Lost. I've never really watched much of that - what do you think of the comparison? I honestly can't see a problem with the show, which continues to strongly imply things and I definitely think it's building somewhere, even if I'm not sure where. It was interesting to me that we had yet another "mother" in this episode, with Jesse and Riley, and it turned out to be that Jesse is essentially using poor Riley as no more than a pawn in her scheme.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Since I happen to like Lost, I'd see the comparison as a compliment. But then, one of my most beloved shows is Babylon 5, and that was the long term arc show to end all long term arc shows. I don't want all the answers right away, and I don't mind the leisurely pace.

It was interesting to me that we had yet another "mother" in this episode, with Jesse and Riley, and it turned out to be that Jesse is essentially using poor Riley as no more than a pawn in her scheme.

True, though I would say their interaction could be read as friends with sexual overtones (Jesse's "pretty girl" comment when she spots Riley, for example) as well. But pseudo-maternal works for that as well, and probably fits better with the overall parent/child themes. It's interesting reverse to the episode where we saw Catherine Weaver interact with Real!Catherine's daughter. T-Catherine started as cold and frightened the girl, and then adopted enough human mannerisms to get her "daughter" to accept her, whereas Jesse starts as warm and friendly with Riley and ends up remote and utterly ruthless.

[danel4d.livejournal.com]

Yes, that's it exactly - I think that comparison was sort of the edge of my mind! It's another inverse, the kind that this show uses so well, like they tended to do last season with Sarah's voiceovers (Sarah saying how the robots are inhuman killing machines who never do something like dancing, as we see Derek shoot Andy Goode and Cameron dancing, for example).

And as reagrds the Lost comparison - yeah, I thought you'd say something like that - in some ways, seeing some of the commentary on this series of SCC has made me wonder if the whole X-Files/B5 arc-thing might have had negative consequences, rather on fannish expectation rather than (or as well as) on actual shows. It made me think of some of Lawrence Miles' comments from a few months back... I'm not sure if I'm going to try on get the thoughts in order and try to write something on it, but the gist of it is that I've seen a disturbing trend in fannish commentary lately that seems to see a slip from the traditional view of normal set-up/MOTW episodes as standard, with arc-based episodes as the tasting topping, to the other way around - the point is anything that progresses the arc, and any episodes that are just a fun run-around or simple (rather than obvious) character development as pointless filler.

And I can't help but think that the danger there is that it's really intensively cult-y - a lot of the mainstream criticism I saw of Heroes, even in Series One, was that it didn't really do fun stand-alones, but just rather slow development of the main arc. I don't agree with that, but... Like I said, I haven't really formulated the thoughts.

[monanotlisa.livejournal.com]

I'm definitely picking up the sexual overtones between Jesse and Riley, too, but then, I'm (also) a femslasher at heart. Easy enough in this case, I say - think of the "pretty girl" from Jesse, but also Riley herself who wants the two of them to "live together," who very obviously wants be much closer to Jesse for what may be whole layer of reasons. From the way Jesse acts around her now, I'd say "friends" is right out...but that doesn't preclude messed-up sex relationships, from the way I'm tv-reared. & ;-)

I like the reverse parallel of mothers and daughters, though. Thankfully in my head, those are by no means mutually exclusive in fictional works!

[selenak.livejournal.com]

From the way Jesse acts around her now, I'd say "friends" is right out...but that doesn't preclude messed-up sex relationships, from the way I'm tv-reared. & ;-)

I like the reverse parallel of mothers and daughters, though. Thankfully in my head, those are by no means mutually exclusive in fictional works!

Darla and Drusilla say they agree. *g*

[monanotlisa.livejournal.com]

I knew you would understand. & :-P

[nomadicwriter]

Toby/Andy is probably my very favourite West Wing ship, though Jed/Abbey puts up stiff competition. I'm always vastly more interested in couples who have been involved for decades than fresh romances. (Same goes for friendships, actually, especially ones that have partly but not wholly fallen apart. I love all that weight of history.) I was so thrilled when Andy returned for that wholly unexpected storyline in season four. And then bummed when they didn't seem to do much with it after Sorkin left.

And I can offer this icon:

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Aw, thank you! And yes, hooray for established couples and relationships with history!

Re: not much with Andy & the twins after Sorkin's departure - yes, I noticed, but there was just enough to make it clear they didn't simply forget - Toby's reaction in Gaza, for example (that wave at the tv!), the Halloween episode in s7 where their scenes together (and with the children) were just terrific, and also Andy asking CJ for the pardon in the last but one episode. (Though I liked that CJ ultimately didn't relate that request to Jed because it was better storytelling that he came to this decision on his own. Still, Andy asking for a pardon even though she knew Toby would be furious was very her.)

[kalypso-v.livejournal.com]

it was Josh who was doing all the chasing

I think I saw it more as following her round with his jaw dropping until she took pity...

I thought Amy was very good for Josh, though probably always as a major station on the route to his final destination.

[violaswamp.livejournal.com]

Sperm thief?

*eyeroll*

I like both Amy and Andi. But especially Andi--I love her entrance in S1, with the pie.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

That was marvellous. Such a great character.

[abigail-n.livejournal.com]

I never cared for Amy, but that's mostly because I find Mary-Louise Parker a very annoying and unconvincing actress. I have a vague recollection of hearing, however, that her departure wasn't (or at least not entirely) John Wells's choice, but mandated by her pregnancy - whatever the truth of that, she's clearly pregnant in her last appearance as Abbey's chief of staff.

Andi hatred, I agree, is completely insane.

[monanotlisa.livejournal.com]

"Maybe it's the Star Trek fan in me, but I don't believe in someone "born evil", and certainly not an Artificial Intelligence, so Ellison after that conversation with his pastor deciding that whatever else it is, "John Henry" is a child and he has a responsibility was great to see, as was their subsequent scene."

Yes it was! (Bonus Ellison icon.) Elaborating on God as the creator of all things is a tricky thing to do on a tv show - but TSCC pulled it off because Richard T. Jones just has that gravitas, that quiet conviction, and of course it does touch upon the central questions of the show. There are severe problems in the betrayal set-up, as I have remarked in my episode review (http://monanotlisa.livejournal.com/812739.html#cutid1), but so far, I am positively surprised by the choices the writers have made.

"Mind you, Ellison clearly hasn't watched BSG if he thinks religion is conductive to keeping cyborgs from genocide.:)"

*ggg*

"I'm less happy about the fact that the first trans character we see on the show dies"

Ah, same here. And it made me smile, if a little grimly, that Eileen gets it right when she asks Sarah whether she even understands a word of what she's saying about true selves.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Oh, that's a beautiful Ellison icon. *admires*

Given that the season saw Cameron in the opening episode ask about God, I wonder whether we'll ever get a conversation between her and Ellison on the topic?

On a lighter note, check out londonkds's suggestion for a Sarah Connor Chronicles Christmas episode in his most recent post. *g*

[monanotlisa.livejournal.com]

"Given that the season saw Cameron in the opening episode ask about God, I wonder whether we'll ever get a conversation between her and Ellison on the topic?"

I wish! Two of my favourite characters and a topic dear to my heart as well as the story....

And will do! ::checks out her lj::

[monanotlisa.livejournal.com]

Also, have this icon:

http://pics.livejournal.com/monanotlisa/pic/003z1p5g

Can't take much credit for it; it's from one of the promo adverts for the show. But hey, it has what you asked for!

(High-quality screenshots seem to be rare on the internet, alas. I keep looking for one with Ellison.)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Oh THANK YOU!

[monanotlisa.livejournal.com]

Welcome! *beam*