Poe and more BSG

[selenak]

Yesterday was the 200th anniversary of Poe's birth. I was twelve when I first read The Tell-Tale Heart, and it blew me away. Left me breathless. It wasn't the first scary story I read, but the first one from the point of view of a killer/madman, and also the first short story that impressed the hell out of me. (As a child, I had gone from fairy tales straight to novels in my personal reading, and the short stories we had read in school up to that point struck me as very dull.) I visited the local library the next day and went for all things Edgar Allan Poe. It was quite the experience.

Sometimes, you lose your taste for things that delighted you in your adolescence, but mine for Poe never left me. Especially not once, as an adult, I started to aquire audio versions. Poe, whether we're talking short stories, poetry or essays, is wonderful to be read out loud. I have recordings of Christopher Lee doing it, and Orson Welles, and some not so well known actors, and listening to them, I feel as swept away, scared and delighted as when I first found him. When I travelled around in the US in 2002, my sole reason for visiting Baltimore was so I could visit Poe's grave (and the Edgar Allan Poe House and Museum). When Kim Newman used Poe as a character in his clever "Anno Dracula" sequel, it thrilled me. I originally watched both the Universal movies and the Roger Corman movies because of the Poe titles (before appreciating them in their cheesy, scenery-eating glory for themselves; they don't have much to do with the Poe short stories except for the title, but that doesn't stop me from loving the hell out of the Lugosi/Karloff spectacle The Black Cat, for example). In short, I am a fan, and so I was happy another writer I love, Neil Gaiman, remembered the Poe anniversary and linked a great essay of his on the subject.

***

Two more thoughts relating to the recent Battlestar Galactica episode:



You know, sometimes my sympathy for characters simply depends on the way they're written. Lee Adama is a case in point - I like him very much from from the miniseries until Home II in the second season, have no sympathy when the poor guy made it through not one but two horrible romantic entanglement storylines from mid season 2 till late season 3, and like him again starting with Maelstrom when the show remembers that Lee/Romance is a dud while Lee/Friendship and Lee/Politics is interesting. Then there are characters I like even in badly written episodes. *eyes Gaius Baltar, Six and Laura Roslin*. And then there are characters like Bill Adama, whom I started out liking, and who actually hasn't had bad storylines but whom I still have gradually lost all sympathy for and now can't regain. The most I can manage is to feel occasionally sorry for him, and even that is rapidly disappearing. Now I could cite reasons, from his increasing tendency to see anything that goes against personal loyalty to himself as a grieveous insult (the first time this really irritated me was in Unfinished Business, in his behaviour, past and present, towards Tyrol because of the Chief's decision to settle on New Caprica) to his abandoning any kind of pretense of a democratic principle (flatly telling Zarek he won't acknowledge him as President in Sine Qua Non) to the growing way he has to make everyone's tragedy about himself (Kara seemingly dead post Maelstrom? Tigh being a Cylon? Dee killing herself? It's all because life has it in for Bill Adama). BUT. He also did and does a lot of positive things, and in theory, I could see how the crushing responsibility transforms him, and not for the better. Besides, I'm very fond of Gaius Baltar, and if there is a character who from the start of the show onwards has a tendency to see the universe revolving around himself and everything being about him, it's Gaius B. While Baltar has very occasionally done some positive things instead of screwing things up further, he never did so much day to day good as Bill Adama. So why is it that I started out the show being amused by Baltar without liking him and came to like him very much while I started out liking and admiring Adama and am now without any respect and any sympathy for the admiral? It can't just because Baltar isn't supposed to be the hero of the show, whereas Adama is; so is Lee, and with Lee my sympathy came back as soon as the decent writing for him did. One possible answer might be that if Baltar behaves selfishly, I know the narrative intends me to see him that way, whereas while I'm sure the show wants to present Adama as flawed, I'm not so sure they want me to see him as that flawed. Or it might be that Baltar's tendency to see the universe revolving around himself is expressed in scenes like the one where he and Roslin argue about how to talk to the Hybrid and Laura ignores him, which is funny, while Adama's version of this involves trying to commit suicide via best friend, never mind what that would do either to the friend or the fleet, which is galling (and involves some spectacular overacting).



Speaking of Tigh: given that we've just established Ellen is the final fifth Cylon, there is the question of how she'll return. Now, since the identities of all five were unknown to the seven (except for D'Anna), there can't have been another body waiting for her on some resurrection ship before these were destroyed anyway. Besides, all we've seen and learned so far points to the five using another method to resurrect themselves from the get-go (i.e. 2000 years ago). Now, given that Tigh, as the show itself pointed out, aged for decades, I would postulate that this involve natural growth. Which would mean Ellen literally gets reborn, not as an adult woman, but as a child. And who do we know is pregnant with a child whose very existence is somewhat mysterious? A child that came into being AFTER Ellen Tigh's death? Caprica Six. Mind you, this is messed up even by BSG standards, so I'm not sure they'll go there, but how about the irony if Ellen gets reborn as Tigh's daughter by Caprica?

Comments

[crossoverman.livejournal.com]

Wow, I actually love that Ellen reborn as Six/Tigh's child, if only because I want it to be somewhat different to Hera - who is half human/half Cylon. Obviously if the thirteenth tribe were Cylons, they had to be able to breed with each other... although so much for the "there are only twelve models" thing. Or does that mean only twelve models survive - the Significant Seven (created in the recent past) and the Final Five (created thousands of years ago when humanity left Kobol). For some reason nuking the 13th Tribe out of orbit meant only the Final Five survived. Also, my bet is that the planet was nuked by humans from the colonies.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Yes, I think "twelve models" means "twelve who survived" - so far, but if Hera is the shape of things to come, then of course the future of all kinds of Cylons and humans is a mix and mingle, and no more models.

For some reason nuking the 13th Tribe out of orbit meant only the Final Five survived. Also, my bet is that the planet was nuked by humans from the colonies.

It would fit the symmetry of Cylons and humans switching in roles, yes. Also, we know there was bad blood on Kobol when the tribes originally split, and then there was that genocidal virus weapon posted along the way to Earth...

[raincitygirl.livejournal.com]

You know, sometimes my sympathy for characters simply depends on the way they're written. Lee Adama is a case in point - I like him very much from from the miniseries until Home II in the second season, have no sympathy when the poor guy made it through not one but two horrible romantic entanglement storylines from mid season 2 till late season 3, and like him again starting with Maelstrom when the show remembers that Lee/Romance is a dud while Lee/Friendship and Lee/Politics is interesting. Then there are characters I like even in badly written episodes. *eyes Gaius Baltar, Six and Laura Roslin*. And then there are characters like Bill Adama, whom I started out liking, and who actually hasn't had bad storylines but whom I still have gradually lost all sympathy for and now can't regain. The most I can manage is to feel occasionally sorry for him, and even that is rapidly disappearing. Now I could cite reasons, from his increasing tendency to see anything that goes against personal loyalty to himself as a grieveous insult (the first time this really irritated me was in Unfinished Business, in his behaviour, past and present, towards Tyrol because of the Chief's decision to settle on New Caprica) to his abandoning any kind of pretense of a democratic principle (flatly telling Zarek he won't acknowledge him as President in Sine Qua Non) to the growing way he has to make everyone's tragedy about himself (Kara seemingly dead post Maelstrom? Tigh being a Cylon? Dee killing herself? It's all because life has it in for Bill Adama). BUT. He also did and does a lot of positive things, and in theory, I could see how the crushing responsibility transforms him, and not for the better. Besides, I'm very fond of Gaius Baltar, and if there is a character who from the start of the show onwards has a tendency to see the universe revolving around himself and everything being about him, it's Gaius B. While Baltar has very occasionally done some positive things instead of screwing things up further, he never did so much day to day good as Bill Adama. So why is it that I started out the show being amused by Baltar without liking him and came to like him very much while I started out liking and admiring Adama and am now without any respect and any sympathy for the admiral? It can't just because Baltar isn't supposed to be the hero of the show, whereas Adama is; so is Lee, and with Lee my sympathy came back as soon as the decent writing for him did. One possible answer might be that if Baltar behaves selfishly, I know the narrative intends me to see him that way, whereas while I'm sure the show wants to present Adama as flawed, I'm not so sure they want me to see him as that flawed. Or it might be that Baltar's tendency to see the universe revolving around himself is expressed in scenes like the one where he and Roslin argue about how to talk to the Hybrid and Laura ignores him, which is funny, while Adama's version of this involves trying to commit suicide via best friend, never mind what that would do either to the friend or the fleet, which is galling (and involves some spectacular overacting).

Quoted for truth. Truthy Mctruthness. Seriously, I tried to find a single portion of that very very long paragraph to pick as my quote, and I couldn't because it's ALL true.

[ffutures.livejournal.com]

It would certainly fit the general screwed upness of the story so far. Especially if the baby is born knowing who she is and says so ASAP...

[selenak.livejournal.com]

*has sudden Dune flashback to Alia*

[wee-warrior.livejournal.com]

I have pretty specific reasons for disliking Adama - one of the more neutral ones being that this character type is simply one I usually don't care for - but so far I've never thought that it could also be the writing. Must ponder on that.
It's certainly the writing with Lee, though in contrast to you I don't care much for PoliticianLee, either. Presumably because it was set up so jerkily - they started off with many hints that Roslin saw Lee as her successor and was trying to groom him for that, and then they basically spent two and a half seasons never interacting. Whatever caused that, it broke that whole storyline for me.

Another thing that makes the storyline a tad unbelievable for me is that they were technically still at war when Lee quit. We've heard and seen that they have a pilot shortage more than once, I find it hard to accept that one of the most seasoned pilots and gifted commanders they have would just be let go.

[greenpear.livejournal.com]

I like your idea of the humans and cylons switching roles and it as the humans who nuked the cylon home world. Or maybe that world wasn't Earth and wasn't the home of the 13th tribe. Maybe that was the actual home of the cylons and Earth is still out there to be found and the humans from Earth nuked the planet.

The best theory I like is that after the planet got nuked only 12 people survived. And those 12 people, due to some heretofore unknown reason, can't reproduce together. That's why they made multiple copies of themselves cause that was the only DNA they had. The only way to keep things going was to use actual human DNA - thus the farm.

And my head is spinning from the theories, especially about how they're going to re-introduce Ellen. The re-birth idea is interesting but with only ten more episodes that would be a little diffficult.

[mangosorbet007.livejournal.com]

And then Tigh will imprint on the baby... Ooops, wrong fandom. :-)

[skywaterblue.livejournal.com]

It's because the show writes Baltar as pathetic knowingly, but asks us to believe in Adama's angst without seeing him as equally pathetic. A failure of the writing staff to step back and see their world from the outside.

And yes, I think Caprica is giving birth to baby Ellen.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Where is Ben Sisko when one needs him, I ask you? I mean, the Sisko was never one of my favourite DS9 characters (nor my least favourite, I hasten to add!), but I could always respect him, and he was meant to be flawed (and somewhat crazy towards the end), too.

Here's what I've been thinking:

[skywaterblue.livejournal.com]

Unless they pull off a massive turn at the end of this series (still entirely likely!) BSG will be somewhat of a pale successor to DS9. It's a lot of Ron Moore rehashing the same themes, in more focused detail - but it's also weaker for it, not having the voices of Ira Behr and Michael Piller to leaven the message.

The Sisko was a bit nuts and flawed, but at the end of the day you always respected his judgment in combat.

Re: Here's what I've been thinking:

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Oh, I agree that as of now, DS9 is the superior show. We can has humour and several cultures, you know? And yes, exactly that about the Sisko.

(Not to mention: he had ever so superior parenting skills. But then, the Adamas make Quark's family look like the paragorns of functional.)

Re: Here's what I've been thinking:

[skywaterblue.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately, I read spoilers, so while I don't know the ending I know that more DS9 motif ripping is upcoming.

[fangirljen.livejournal.com]

Oooh, didn't know it was the anniversary of Poe's birth. But I did stop for a moment at work because a book I had read about last week had arrived in my store's newest shipment. I didn't even know it was coming. But check it out: Bunnicula Meets Edgar Allan Crow (http://www.schoolsupplystore.com/Bunnicula-Meets-Edgar-Allan-Crow-P95905.aspx)! Haven't gotten a chance to look through it, but it sounds fun. Before last week, I had only known there were two Bunnicula books, but it seems that there are seven. LOL

[selenak.livejournal.com]

:) Cute idea, that. Poe (who did have a sense of humour) would have been mightily amused.

[abigail-n.livejournal.com]

Another reason I find Adama so much less tolerable than Baltar* is that Adama's self-centeredness actually hurts people. Baltar has hurt a lot of people, of course - most notably the billions who are dead because of his hubris - but through weakness, inattention, and occasionally manipulativeness, not self-centeredness. When Adama beats up Tyrol for daring to want a life off Galactica, or threatens to shoot Cally for standing up for workers' rights, or promises to unseat a legally elected president, he's doing so because of his increasingly warped worldview that anyone who opposes him is deliberately out to get him. It's the direct cause of most of the harm he does, and therefore much harder to enjoy, as we can occasionally do when Baltar acts as though he's the center of the universe, or ignore.

* Not, that is, that I actually like any of the main cast anymore except, perhaps, Tigh.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Yes. Looking back, his behaviour vis a vis Tyrol in Unfinished Business really was the point of no return for me. And not in a sense of "oh, that's ooc" but as part of a pattern, which started, imo, in Kobol's Last Gleam when he took Roslin sending Kara back to Caprica as a reason for a coup, less so because of the weakened defense issue (i.e. the potential loss of a pilot and ship) than because Roslin caused HIS favorite to act against him.

[abigail-n.livejournal.com]

Yes, none of these examples are out of character, but they get more and more extreme while instances of Bill's tendency to take everything personally having positive consequences (his choice to attack Pegasus to prevent Tyrol and Helo's execution comes from the same place as the decision to unseat Roslin) have gone from rare to nonexistent, and, of course, while all other characteristics have dwindled away. At this point he's a caricature of himself, but one who hurts people and therefore is more scary than amusing.