fannish5: Clichés Be Gone!

[selenak]

Name 5 clichés - from canon or fandom - that you'd like to see disappear.

Only five? Ah, well. Okay then. With an awareness that this won't ever happen:

1) The Insignificant Other; see the post I just linked for details. In short, creating a romantic rival solely to heighten the angst between the movie's/show's leading couple, then revealing said romantic rival as evil or dismissing him/her as unworthy so heroine and hero can finally get together usually makes me allergic to the couple in question and hostile towars them, not the rival, and this happened in quite a lot of shows/books/movies. Canon aside, I also hate it when fandom does it, which brings me to my next cliché which I'd love to see gone but which won't any time soon.

2) (S)he comes between them - let's bash! I.e. the type of character bashing which is based on shipping preferences in the fannish viewers. Which I dare say is the cause of character bashing in, oh, 90% of the cases. I'm not saying one has to love every character or every relationship. And I definitely dislike several in various fandoms myself. But all too often, the impression that overwhelming hostility for a character is not due to anything but the fact said character interferes, or is perceived to interfere, with the good 'ship X/Y is overwhelming. Even if I happen to 'ship X/Y myself, nothing will make me back off any given fanfiction faster than finding Z vilified, especially if the actual canon has managed to avoid this particular cliché. I've seen it happen from slash and het shippers alike, and if the character is female (for every Riley, there are ten Gwens), it comes with a vile case of misogyny to boot. Which brings me to:

3) The Overuse Of the Term Mary Sue. It's become downright meaningless and a synonym for "I dislike this character". Feel free to extend this to the term "canon Sue". Especially if it's gendered. (As in: curiously enough, complaints about new male characters, especially if they're attractive, are far rarer than about female ones.) And that's as good a transition as any to:

4) He's Not Bad, He's My Woobie! No, I'm not anti redemption storylines, neither in canon nor in fanfiction. (See also: being a complete Londo Mollari fan.) But what I absolutely hate are stories where fondness for a (usually male) villanous or ambigous character results in his less than admirable traits and deeds either ignored completely, prettified (see also: Fluffy Horseman Methos, to choose a Highlander example) or even excused (that's a different thing from "explained", for the record; everyone has reasons for their actions, and compelling characters often have understandable ones, but that doesn't mean their reasons make them right in what they do). kathyh has suggested to call this phenomenon Sylarization recently...

5) GROVEL! aka that kind of story where character A, clearly in this case the author's chosen speaking tool, tells character B how utterly vile B has behaved towards C (aka the author's woobie of choice). With the result that B either sees the error if his or her ways and apologizes abjectly and completly, or, if the author hates B too much to wish B still in the same cosmos as C, is left behind while A and C saunter off in the horizon. I've seen it in Highlander, I've seen it in Buffy, I've seen it in Doctor Who most recently, and I hated this particular cliché in all fandoms. When I can see from the summary that the story is heading that way, I avoid it altogether.

Comments

[harmonyangel.livejournal.com]

Yes, yes, and more yes, to all of these. ESPECIALLY NUMBER 4.

Though I have to say, Wickham from Pride and Prejudice probably counts for #1, and it obviously still works there. Perhaps my own version of that rule is "only do it if you're Jane Austen."

[selenak.livejournal.com]

And as none of us are Jane Austen... :)

The Scott icon is very apropos, I must say. *g*

[likeadeuce.livejournal.com]

I think there is a difference in what Austen does, which is that it's not glaringly apparent in the story that Darcy is good for Elizabeth, and Wickham is bad, from page one. Filtered through Elizabeth's point of view (which is also the reader's for most of the story) there's no basis to know that Wickham's not what he appears. Now savvy readers are going to figure it out, if they know the tropes of romantic comedies, but to some extent Austen invented (or at least perfected) those tropes.

[vonnie-k.livejournal.com]

4) He's Not Bad, He's My Woobie!

Hear, hear! I HATE the white-washing going on with the morally-ambiguous woobies, which actually tends to rob the characters of the very things that make them interesting.

I actually went and put 2) on my list because again, OMG YES.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I HATE the white-washing going on with the morally-ambiguous woobies, which actually tends to rob the characters of the very things that make them interesting.

Exactly. No conventional hero is ever so utterly free of any bad trait or responsibility for a repulsive action as a morally ambiguous woobie after the fangirls have started on him, or in rare cases, her. (It's a case of "with friends like these, morally ambigous characters really need enemies.*g*)

[willowgreen.livejournal.com]

I actually wrote a Spuffy grovel fic, called "Apologies," just to get it out of my head. Although it was mostly Spike apologizing to Buffy, and there was no third character. It's far from the best thing I ever wrote, but it was very freeing to get it out there. I don't have to worry anymore about all that angst sneaking into my fic when I don't want it there. (It's theoretically still available if I ever do want it, but I'm not a very angsty writer.)

[astridv.livejournal.com]

Yes, yes, yes, and hell, yes.

3) The Overuse Of the Term Mary Sue. It's become downright meaningless and a synonym for "I dislike this character".

That! I've been thinking this a lot recently, because fans who dislike the character of Jennifer Keller on SGA have happily taken to calling her Mary Sue and thusly justify even the most vile, misogynistic character bashing - since, you see, she's a Mary Sue, not a real character. Personally I see no justification for that label, since none of the definitions of Mary Sue apply, in my book. Not liking the character really doesn't cut it.

On a related note...
2) (S)he comes between them - let's bash!

[insert incoherent frothing rant about the time-honored tradition of female-character bashing in fandom and Keller-bashing in particular.]

Okay, back to reading the rest of your post now... *g*

[nomadicwriter]

I loathe number five. Not least because it's always used to make the more cynical, pragmatic, and emotionally reticent character of the two recognise that their way of handling things is 'wrong' and they are obliged to grovel and have a complete personality makeover, while Younger Cuter More Idealistic Character is not required to change or do anything to meet them halfway. Special bonus points for including grovelling apologies for things that Young and Cute Idealist has admitted Pragmatic Cynic was right to do in canon!

And with very few exceptions, every time I've seen a canon TV character called a Mary Sue, it's translated to "female character who is given as many special abilities, love interests and excuses for her behaviour as the male characters". Who are not Sues, you see, because in some mystical undefined way they're 'written better'.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Not least because it's always used to make the more cynical, pragmatic, and emotionally reticent character of the two recognise that their way of handling things is 'wrong' and they are obliged to grovel and have a complete personality makeover, while Younger Cuter More Idealistic Character is not required to change or do anything to meet them halfway.

Huh, my experience with grovelfic is actually the exact reverse! I first encountered in Highlander, where the main character (definitely defines as younger and idealistic) was made to apologize to the older, pragmatic trickster character every single time. (The most recent encounters, though, in DW have been with all other characters, no matter whether older or younger, cynic or idealistic, lecturing the main character with how utterly wrong he was with his actions, etc.)

And with very few exceptions, every time I've seen a canon TV character called a Mary Sue, it's translated to "female character who is given as many special abilities, love interests and excuses for her behaviour as the male characters". Who are not Sues, you see, because in some mystical undefined way they're 'written better'.

Yes, that. penknife once did a great post on the subject, containing the lines: "Any female character who is as capable and unusually talented as the male characters is a Mary Sue. Any female character who is not as capable and unusually talented as the male characters is weak and uninteresting. Any female character who develops new skills over time is a Mary Sue, no matter how she learned those skills or how strong her motivation to do so. Any female character who has bad things happen to her is just trying to be the center of attention. If she ever complains about those things, she's also whiny."

[likeadeuce.livejournal.com]

Hear hear on all of these.

[skywaterblue.livejournal.com]

I didn't think someone doing this meme could find a list of five things I REALLY LOATHE about fanfic. I should never have underestimated you. All of these things piss me off.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Oh, I could have added some more - the power of healing sex after rape comes to mind, for example, which majorly pisses me off in slash and het alike - but hey, it was limited to 5.*g*

[watervole.livejournal.com]

Hear Hear!

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I was wondering whether to mention that very special subgenre of grovelfic, aka "Blake apologizes to Avon because he made Avon shoot him on Gauda Prime"...

[astrogirl2.livejournal.com]

The Overuse Of the Term Mary Sue.

Oh, hell, yes. This is one that makes me want to tear my hair out, because, of course, the people writing actual Mary Sues don't particularly care that that's what they're doing, but fandom's tendency to point to any halfway competent female oc (and a great many halfway competent female canon characters) and shout "Mary Sue!" makes a lot of genuinely talented writers get all nervous and back off from writing, you know, actual interesting characters. Gaah. It is to weep.

And #4 brings back interesting memories of dealing with the Scorpius fan who seemed to take it as a personal betrayal that I was capable of seeing the guy's positive qualities and yet still writing him as a villain. Oy.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

It really is to weep, and rage. Did you read [Unknown site tag]'s post (http://penknife.livejournal.com/278079.html) back in the day? Still the best thing written on the subject.

4 - oh, I think I remember that one. Wasn't his handle _scorpius_ or something like that? Anyway, yes. That phenomenon exactly. If you like Scorpius as a character, you must therefore somehow be blind or excuse that "childhood from hell" does not cover as an excuse for what he did to, say, Stark. If you like Magneto, you must therefore despite all the X-men and think not just Magneto's cause but every one of his actions was right. If you like Methos, you must think Cassandra is an ungrateful crazy bitch for still hating him because he killed everyone she ever loved when she was young, raped and brainwashed her, because hey, in the present day, he didn't kill her! If you like Snape, then stating he's a lousy teacher and that no, not everything can be blamed on the Marauders and Dumbledore is high treason. And so forth.

Lastly: your icon is perfect for the context!

[monanotlisa.livejournal.com]

Indeed! ::is v. wordy tonight, yes::

[wee-warrior.livejournal.com]

Yes to all of them, especially the first three. By now, my default reaction to anyone using the term "Mary Sue" is "I don't think that means what you think it means."

[honorh.livejournal.com]

As usual, you speak only the truth. You know my deep and abiding loathing for the Mary Sue label, of course, and I hate the rest with varying degrees of passion as well.

[lilacsigil.livejournal.com]

Yay for all your posts! I think that shipping can take a good part of the blame for 1,2 and 5 - a writer wants to see two characters together so much that it seems entirely justifiable, nay, heroic, to sweep aside all obstacles.

And Mary Sue is such a very useful and specific term that it makes me sad to see it extended to bash any female character who is in the slightest bit competent or plot-relevant, making all female characters either "Mary Sue" or "weak".

[elisi]

Oh how I love this post. Especially #2, I think, although it's hard to choose. Mostly I was just nodding along.

Anyway, I only came tiptoeing over here (I'm really on hiatus, trying - and actually succeeding - to get some writing done) so I could rec you a fic:

Team Building - Reverse The Polarity Remix by iamshadow, a story of how Jack assembled his team. It is just *beautifully* done, and the characterisations are utterly perfect. Especially Suzie, who is of course the trickiest one. Enjoy! :)

[violaswamp.livejournal.com]

It's become downright meaningless and a synonym for "I dislike this character". Feel free to extend this to the term "canon Sue". Especially if it's gendered.

I have come to agree with this completely, even though I wrote a whole essay after HP: HBP on why I thought Ginny Weasley was a Mary Sue. I still think she was poorly written and agree with everything I wrote then, but I wouldn't use the term "Sue."

It just seems to be that ANY strong, pro-active, impressive female character can be tagged as a "Sue" and that's just a way of dismissing her without thought.

[phoenix64.livejournal.com]

*wild applause*

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Just was linked this from a flist post, so you don't know me at all - I have nothing meaningful to say, I just wanted to wave my Londo Mollari fan flag *waves flag wildly*

I love redemption storylines. But redemption doesn't count unless there's something they really need to be redeemed for, and it gets acknowledged.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Yes, exactly, and hello, fellow Londo Mollari fan! If you want an entire essay raving about the greatness of his storyline, it's here (http://community.livejournal.com/idol_reflection/17374.html)!

[verdenia.livejournal.com]

GREAT post! I'm here because someone recced you [and this post] to argosy recently. :D

*memory*ing this post!

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Thank you, and I'm delighted to hear I was recced!