So, Torchwood...

[selenak]

The new Torchwood trailer is up, and though one element - (possessed children in danger - again? - only got a "whatever" from me, by and large it filled me with fond anticipation. As I said in one of the fannish looking back at 2008 memes, it gets my award for most improved show through its second season. (Doesn't mean I didn't like individual episodes of s1, btw, but the flaws were such that I really don't know whether I would have kept watching without the spin-off factor. Probably not.)

One thing I still can't make my mind up about. As you may or may not know, RTD's book The Writer's Tale among other things reveals that the transfer of a certain arc starting with Reset from Ianto to Owen happened very last minute. So last minute that there had already been read-throughs and Rusty had to take Gareth David Llyod out for dinner to apologize and give him the "it's not you, it's us" speech about the transference. Which tells you something about the difference in perception between actors and fans again, because if Ianto had been given Owen's s2 arc, I'm pretty sure most of his fans would have been furious. First there would have been massive outcry that the only regular gay relationship on the show was de-sexualized (as whichever character would have been the dead man walking would have had that same problem), Ianto going through the depression/suicidal/lashing out stages Owen did before getting it together would have been described as feeding 50s clichés about gay/bisexual characters, and then of course there would have been massive outcry at Ianto's demise; he would have been seen as getting killed off to make the way for a het relationship, Jack/Gwen.

Now, I have no idea whether any of this was on the minds of RTD, Chibnall and the rest of the writers, and I rather suspect it wasn't, because the sole reason Rusty gives is that he realized this arc worked far better for Owen than for Ianto. Which it does, and not just because it avoids splitting up the canon same-sex couple that if Torchwood fanfiction is any indication is still the main draw of the show for the majority of viewers. With Owen, you can connect it to various s1 events, it gave him character development, and gained him audience sympathies he did not have before. (Personally, I thought Owen was the most interesting s1 character, and it took s2 for me to like Ianto, but I realize I'm in the minority here. Most TW watchers loved Ianto at the start of s2 already, and there was no need for him to gain their sympathies.) Also, Burn Gorman is the better actor, especially for the kind of scenes the dead man walking arc required. Before Gareth David-Llyod fans jump on me, I hasten to add that I love what he does with Ianto's reaction takes (from comedic, as in Ianto's horrified expression when Owen gets coffee duty, to subtle, as in To the Last Man when Ianto asks Jack whether Jack wants to return to his own time). But I do remember Cyber Woman, and the Ianto scenes in the later part of Out of the rain, and, well. Do not want.

So yes, good choice and all. And yet. In a context-free world, where I don't have to consider the rarity of same-sex relationships between regulars on tv and how we really don't need another tragic ending for one of the few, I must confess I'd have preferred, not an exchange of arcs, but an exchange of deaths at the end of the season, and for Owen to stay around and for Ianto to kick it, if one of them had to die for good. Which mostly is a matter of fannish character preference - which we all have, inevitably - but not completely, as I think if the surviving Torchwood trio had been Jack, Gwen and Owen instead of Jack, Ianto and Gwen, there would have been a lot of narrative potential. The relationship between Jack and Owen has always fascinated me, with that mixture of massive resentment and need, and it wasn't one where Jack could use his charm as a short cut. Gwen and Owen after their dysfunctional affair had grown to be friends without either massive hostility or secret pining lingering, which is a rare outcome for such relationships on tv and struck me as refreshingly adult.

Ah well. What's done is done. And as I said, if I shut up my inner fanbrat I think Rusty and Co. made the right choice.

Comments

[wee-warrior.livejournal.com]

Concerning Owen's death: had Burn Gorman no say in that? I'm asking because British actors seem a lot more eager to move on than their US counterparts, and he was the one in the cast where I could most imagine he would want to further his career.

Politically speaking it's probably better that they didn't kill Ianto, yes, but did they give an explanation for Tosh?

[selenak.livejournal.com]

had Burn Gorman no say in that? I'm asking because British actors seem a lot more eager to move on than their US counterparts, and he was the one in the cast where I could most imagine he would want to further his career.

If he did, it wasn't mentioned anywhere. As for poor Tosh, nope, no explanation.

[kalypso-v.livejournal.com]

I never heard the official word on it, but my hunch was always that Burn Gorman thought two series of a high-profile TV show would be a useful career boost, more might hold him back. But if it wasn't his idea, he couldn't complain, because the second season gave him a terrific part which I don't think anyone else in the cast could have carried off. He was the primary season why I stuck with Torchwood throughout the dodgy first season; even when the script was crap, I couldn't take my eyes off him. I suppose I'll keep going without him, as the rest of it picked up so much in the second.

[pandarus.livejournal.com]

(Personally, I thought Owen was the most interesting s1 character, and it took s2 for me to like Ianto, but I realize I'm in the minority here. Most TW watchers loved Ianto at the start of s2 already, and there was no need for him to gain their sympathies.)

I'm with you, fwiw; I was pretty 'meh' about Ianto for most of Season 1. I didn't dislike him, but I pretty much saw him as a low budget Simon Tam, and Sean Maher hit that role out of the park for me right from the first episode of the show (I adore his monologue about River. Adore. Adore. Adore. Very self-assured). Whilst I found Owen one of the most fascinating characters, and loved watching his relationship with Jack - as you say, the resentment and need and all that good stuff.

Also, Burn Gorman is the better actor, especially for the kind of scenes the dead man walking arc required. Before Gareth David-Llyod fans jump on me, I hasten to add that I love what he does with Ianto's reaction takes (from comedic, as in Ianto's horrified expression when Owen gets coffee duty, to subtle, as in To the Last Man when Ianto asks Jack whether Jack wants to return to his own time). But I do remember Cyber Woman, and the Ianto scenes in the later part of Out of the rain, and, well. Do not want.

And again yes.

That said, I'd have been gutted to lose Ianto at the end of Season 2. I was pretty fucking gutted to lose Tosh and Owen, but I did think that Owen, at least, got a terrific story arc. And, as you mention, that whole killing-off-the-boyfriend thing would have been made of fail. (I find the pushing of Jack-Gwen a bit baffling, really, because Rhys is made of awesome, and although I like Gwen well enough I don't think she's such a special snowflake that Jack should be obsessing over her. Do not want.)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Actually, I don't think they're pushing Jack-Gwen on the show proper; imo this got settled when Gwen picked Rhys three times in a row (in Meat, where it was explicitly Rhys versus Jack, as she refused to retcon Rhys and said she'd rather quit Torchwood and be retconned herself, and Jack gave in, near the end of Adam when she started to fall in love with Rhys again despite having Adam-inflicted amnesia and thus in this scenario knowing Jack first - which addresses Rhys' fear that she's just "settling" for him and wouldn't have chosen him had she met Jack first -, and in Something Borrowed, the wedding episode). In the second half of the season, there is no example of Gwen being even a bit flirtatious towards Jack, or, for that matter, vice versa. There is undoubtedly still a strong emotional connection, and I did get the impression Jack has a wistful "might have been" feeling about her, but not that he's obsessing. And we did see Jack obsessing on this show (over the Doctor, see also, Jack rather letting a serial killer loose then letting go of his hand), so it's not like we wouldn't know the difference.

...and you know, I've never thought about first season Ianto and Simon Tam parallels. Now that you've mentioned it, good lord, yes.

[honorh.livejournal.com]

I think Rusty definitely made the right decision, too. Burn Gorman was a hellblazer with that arc, and he's the only actor on the show who could've pulled it off. I think Ianto's found his niche as office Mommy who can kick ass with the rest of 'em when needed. For my money, GDL's best acting moment was in "Fragments" right after Jack tells him he's on the team. That reaction shot--he's gotten what he wanted, but he's beginning to realize just how hard it'll be to do what he thinks must be done--was perfect, and very subtle.

At least S2 got me liking the whole team. *sob* Oooweeennn! Toooosh!

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Agreed on the Fragments moment, and you know I'm with you on the whole team...

[ffutures.livejournal.com]

Why do I suddenly find myself wondering what S2 would have been like with undead Tosh instead...?

[selenak.livejournal.com]

While Naoko Mori would undoubtedly have delivered a fabulous performance, I am not sure how it would have worked with Tosh - given her shyness and tendency to withdraw, she might have taken her undead status as a reason to carry that to extremes and not communicate with anyone at all anymore.

On the other hand, the shock of dying and then finding herself undead might have galvanized her inner rebel, so who knows?

[redfiona10.livejournal.com]

I think it was the right decision for acting reasons, as you say, plus Owen is the kind of character who can react better to that kind of thing, as opposed to Ianto 'Repress Everything' Jones.

When I'm feeling particularly obnoxious, I say that fixing the Jack/Ianto thing as a certainty boxes in one of the few naturally polygamous characters on TV, but I normally only do that when people are trying to white picket fence Ianto and Jack, when, they're really not a white picket fence sort of pairing.

Also I'm amused that while this statement is undoubtedly true about fandom's reaction at large - "Ianto going through the depression/suicidal/lashing out stages Owen did before getting it together would have been described as feeding 50s clichés about gay/bisexual characters," no one did complain about that given that Owen is also canonically bisexual, or at the very least, doesn't mind having sex with men.

[pujaemuss.livejournal.com]

This is Torchwood. Everyone's bisexual.

Even the pterodactyl.

PJW

[londonkds.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately the only on-screen canon (as opposed to the S1 website tie-in material) that depicts Owen as bisexual is the notorious drug-rape scene, so I can't be that unhappy about him being apparently straight in S2. Likewise I have no problems with Tosh and Gwen being apparently straight in S2, given that the on-screen f/f stuff in S1 consisted entirely of lesbianism-as-evil-alien-possession/seduction but with drooling visual fanboyservice.

[oracne.livejournal.com]

INteresting. I'm glad I'm not the only one who found Owen really, really interesting!

[trobadora]

In a context-free world, where I don't have to consider the rarity of same-sex relationships between regulars on tv and how we really don't need another tragic ending for one of the few, I must confess I'd have preferred, not an exchange of arcs, but an exchange of deaths at the end of the season, and for Owen to stay around and for Ianto to kick it, if one of them had to die for good.

So much yes. Just as you say, I understand and even agree with all the reasons it happened the way it did, and yet ... I still selfishly wish Ianto had died instead of Owen. *sighs* (I still don't care about Ianto one way or another, but I loved Owen.)

[wiredblowfish.livejournal.com]

Yeah. For all the excitement of the attraction between Ianto and Jack and Gwen and Jack, for me Owen was the center of the dramatic action in both series. Series One: The angry longer who only tolerates people when he has to--for sex or work, falls madly and deeply in love and then is abandoned. Then Comes face to face with his own burning rage (in the form of the weevil) and dominates it (becomes King of the Weevils.)

Series 2: Is shot and lives, is shot and dies, is brought back to life and has to face life without life. As a walking dead man, he talks a woman off a ledge and comforts a dieing man in his last moments, puts a imprisoned and tortured animal out of his misery. Then saves the world at the the expense of the last vestiges of his being on this earth.

Now he is not on the show! There are only three people saving the world in Torchwood! It seemed quiter ridiculous when there was only five of them. Also, it looks like there will be no time in the HUB in series 3.

It seems like a sad shadow of its former self, but I'll still watch it, because I am totally obsessed

[irradiatedsoup.livejournal.com]

And yet. In a context-free world, where I don't have to consider the rarity of same-sex relationships between regulars on tv and how we really don't need another tragic ending for one of the few, I must confess I'd have preferred, not an exchange of arcs, but an exchange of deaths at the end of the season, and for Owen to stay around and for Ianto to kick it, if one of them had to die for good. Which mostly is a matter of fannish character preference - which we all have, inevitably - but not completely, as I think if the surviving Torchwood trio had been Jack, Gwen and Owen instead of Jack, Ianto and Gwen, there would have been a lot of narrative potential.

Yes. This.

[maxine-mirkwood.livejournal.com]

You're assuming that the Dead Man Walking story line an Owen's ultimate demise were connected. I don't think that's necessarily the case. The whole King of the Weevils thing was rumoured to have meant to have been connected to Combat, not the fact that Owen was (un)dead, so it makes senses that he still would have been the character who was the only one able to get to the power plant in Exit Wounds. What Ianto's ultimate fate may have been if he had had the undead story will probably never be know...

[estarcollector.livejournal.com]

For what it's worth, I read an interview with Burn post-S1 where he explicitly said he did not want to play Owen for too many years because he feared getting typecast. (Wish I could find the link now.) *shrug*

For me, I love Ianto and Owen both and would have cried regardless.