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Re: RaceFail, I've been following this with an increasing level of wondering appalled how much worse it could get, and of course, it seems people find a way to fail harder every morning one checks the 'net.
ryda_wrong's journal has the best collection of links on the subject; this morning, however, I saw that
lizbee has come up with a practical way to do something in one's every day life, which was cheering.
Meanwhile, on a certain island:
Except for the very end, it wasn't a triangle episode as I had feared but a great Dharma Initiative/Time Travel one, full of marvellous details. Such as Miles asking "who elected him leader?" re: Sawyer, which is of course just what Sawyer asked about Jack way back in s1. Miles in many ways is a younger Sawyer. (And incidentally, I do wonder whether we'll get an explanation how he was persuaded to sit out these three years.) (Also, due to current debates, see above, seeing Miles next to Jin reminded me that Lost for all its bad record of killing female characters does remember Hollywood doesn't just have white actors consistently, and offers more than just one token PoC in a prominent role.) It underlines how much Sawyer has changed, as do his other actions, from worrying about Locke to trusting that Locke and the O6 will, in fact, come back, to taking a protective and sensible approach once they encounter the Dharma Initiative. If you think back to the guy who managed to make a bad situation worse by shooting a wounded man in the stomach... Character development: he has it. I've never been a big Sawyer fan, but I like him, and when he gets featured prominently without this also being about the triangle of doom, it makes for a good viewing experience.
Watching this, I wished I remembered the dates from The Man Behind the Curtain better. Clearly, Roger Linus and his son Benjamin haven't arrived on the island yet, but shouldn't that be due soon? Which makes for an interesting dilemma for Our Heroes, especially Juliet, whose awareness of what ultimately happens to the DI is highlighted in this episode several times. Incidentally, did you notice her phrasing? The Others "wiped out most of the Dharma Initiative". This means she's aware that the story Ben told to the "new" Others and to Jack, that he was born on the island, is a lie, which means either Ben or Richard must have told her the truth. (Locke, who heard it from Ben and via practical demonstration in a mass grave, did not have time to.) It also means when a kid looking like Harry Potter exits that submarine and Juliet & Co. are still in the 70s, she'll know exactly what this means. And now they've lived three years with these people. I just can't imagine not one of them trying to do something to stop the Purge, which, if I know my genre, will probably help to trigger the Purge to begin with. Of course, it could also be that Our Heroes manage to return to their correct time before young Ben arrives, but I don't think so, for a new possibility has occured to me. When Harper in The Other Woman made her remark that Ben's crush on Juliet is explainable because "you look just like her", there seemed to be only two possibilities as to who "her" could be - either Ben's childhood friend Annie (who was a brunette and doesn't look anything like Juliet) or his mother Emily (who does resemble Juliet somewhat, but also died at his birth, and while Ben saw her as a ghost, it's doubtful Harper did, so how would she know?). Now there is a third option. It could be that Ben actually met Juliet for the first time when he was a child.
Something that's been bugging me through the episode is that Horace's wife in The Man Behind The Curtain flashbacks wasn't Amy. (I think her name was Olivia, but I'd have to look it up.) Given that this episode is careful about continuity, methinks this does not bode well for Amy. And of course there is the question of the newborn son, proof one could conceive and give birth on the island in the past. At a guess, the reason why this wasn't possible anymore in the present might have something to do with the Purge and the use of gas and biological warfare therein, and possibly also with what caused the Widmore/Linus feud. (Speaking of young Charles, note that as of 1974, he's no more the leader of the Others than he was in the 50s. Mind you, I don't think he completely lied when going on about how Ben "took the island" and "deposed" him, but there must be a reason Richard picked young Mr. Linus to side with and through twelve years, until Locke showed up, had made no attempt to replace him, certainly not with Charles Widmore whom given Richard's ongoing trips to the mainland through that time he could have done. There are also Ben's throwaway statements that he wasn't leader of the Others during the Purge (to Hurley and Locke). Of course, with Ben you always have to wonder whether he's lying or editorializing, but for the moment, my current guess is a three way power struggle. Richard is still default leader of the Others in 1974, and they have some sort of truce with the Dharma Initiative, though obviously a very uneasy one. In the late 70s, father and son Linus arrive, and Richard is intrigued enough by young Ben (who sees dead people) to tell him he could join them but not yet, only if he can wait. (Wait for what? To grow up, or is there already a wholesale slaughter planned?) And then there's Penny's age. She evidently does not remember the island. So just when did Charles Widmore leave/was exiled, and what happened before he did?
Best "this is awesome" moment: when everyone looked up and saw the gigantic statue, before Locke turned the wheel. I wonder how far back in the island's past they were at that point?
Best "this cracks me up" moment: Sawyer baffling Richard with superior time travel knowledge.
Most groanworthy moment: Sawyer, you lose character points by not telling Juliet immediately what Jin said and lying to her. Never mind the stupid triangle implication (when they gave him the "you can get over someone" monologue, it was clear fate was immediately going to prove him wrong already), this is just not ON between allies given all the "you have my back?" talk throughout the episode. In conclusion, Juliet is a magnet for Men Who Lie (see also: her husband, Goedwin, Ben...).
***
My fanfic rec of the day is set in the Iron Man movieverse and manages to accomplish several things I treasure:
1) Use of comicverse tropes and characters in a way that makes sense as a future of the movieverse. In this case, Tony's descent into complete alcoholism (I don't think the movies will do a complete Demon in the Bottle storyline, but there is enough set-up in the first film to indicate they'll do at least part of it), and his relationship with Steve Rogers/Captain America. (Who has his own movie scheduled, so we don't know yet exactly what he'll be like in the movieverse, which in turn means using comicverse characterisation is a sensible option.)
2) a slash story that avoids an "all you need is love" conclusion; Tony Stark, in either 'verse, is screwed up emotionally for many reasons, and being in love isn't going to fix that
3) bad sex. Err, let me explain. What I mean is this: all too often, whether it's het or slash, a first time story presents said first time as The Best Sex They Ever Had, utterly mind-blowing, etc. Which is why when I finally came across a Blake's 7 story - with Blake/Avon as the pairing in question - where said first time sex wasn't actually that great because Avon, being Avon, had lied when Blake had asked him whether he had had sex with a man before, plus they were on a cold planet, and it was really uncomfortable - I was stunned about how refreshing that felt, and how it made me believe in the characters even more. Stories like this are still rare, though. Well, here's another, where the sex, when it finally happens, is what you can expect when one party is drunk and the other a man wo's not that experienced. I loved it.
In conclusion: go, read:
What a piece of work is man?
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Meanwhile, on a certain island:
Except for the very end, it wasn't a triangle episode as I had feared but a great Dharma Initiative/Time Travel one, full of marvellous details. Such as Miles asking "who elected him leader?" re: Sawyer, which is of course just what Sawyer asked about Jack way back in s1. Miles in many ways is a younger Sawyer. (And incidentally, I do wonder whether we'll get an explanation how he was persuaded to sit out these three years.) (Also, due to current debates, see above, seeing Miles next to Jin reminded me that Lost for all its bad record of killing female characters does remember Hollywood doesn't just have white actors consistently, and offers more than just one token PoC in a prominent role.) It underlines how much Sawyer has changed, as do his other actions, from worrying about Locke to trusting that Locke and the O6 will, in fact, come back, to taking a protective and sensible approach once they encounter the Dharma Initiative. If you think back to the guy who managed to make a bad situation worse by shooting a wounded man in the stomach... Character development: he has it. I've never been a big Sawyer fan, but I like him, and when he gets featured prominently without this also being about the triangle of doom, it makes for a good viewing experience.
Watching this, I wished I remembered the dates from The Man Behind the Curtain better. Clearly, Roger Linus and his son Benjamin haven't arrived on the island yet, but shouldn't that be due soon? Which makes for an interesting dilemma for Our Heroes, especially Juliet, whose awareness of what ultimately happens to the DI is highlighted in this episode several times. Incidentally, did you notice her phrasing? The Others "wiped out most of the Dharma Initiative". This means she's aware that the story Ben told to the "new" Others and to Jack, that he was born on the island, is a lie, which means either Ben or Richard must have told her the truth. (Locke, who heard it from Ben and via practical demonstration in a mass grave, did not have time to.) It also means when a kid looking like Harry Potter exits that submarine and Juliet & Co. are still in the 70s, she'll know exactly what this means. And now they've lived three years with these people. I just can't imagine not one of them trying to do something to stop the Purge, which, if I know my genre, will probably help to trigger the Purge to begin with. Of course, it could also be that Our Heroes manage to return to their correct time before young Ben arrives, but I don't think so, for a new possibility has occured to me. When Harper in The Other Woman made her remark that Ben's crush on Juliet is explainable because "you look just like her", there seemed to be only two possibilities as to who "her" could be - either Ben's childhood friend Annie (who was a brunette and doesn't look anything like Juliet) or his mother Emily (who does resemble Juliet somewhat, but also died at his birth, and while Ben saw her as a ghost, it's doubtful Harper did, so how would she know?). Now there is a third option. It could be that Ben actually met Juliet for the first time when he was a child.
Something that's been bugging me through the episode is that Horace's wife in The Man Behind The Curtain flashbacks wasn't Amy. (I think her name was Olivia, but I'd have to look it up.) Given that this episode is careful about continuity, methinks this does not bode well for Amy. And of course there is the question of the newborn son, proof one could conceive and give birth on the island in the past. At a guess, the reason why this wasn't possible anymore in the present might have something to do with the Purge and the use of gas and biological warfare therein, and possibly also with what caused the Widmore/Linus feud. (Speaking of young Charles, note that as of 1974, he's no more the leader of the Others than he was in the 50s. Mind you, I don't think he completely lied when going on about how Ben "took the island" and "deposed" him, but there must be a reason Richard picked young Mr. Linus to side with and through twelve years, until Locke showed up, had made no attempt to replace him, certainly not with Charles Widmore whom given Richard's ongoing trips to the mainland through that time he could have done. There are also Ben's throwaway statements that he wasn't leader of the Others during the Purge (to Hurley and Locke). Of course, with Ben you always have to wonder whether he's lying or editorializing, but for the moment, my current guess is a three way power struggle. Richard is still default leader of the Others in 1974, and they have some sort of truce with the Dharma Initiative, though obviously a very uneasy one. In the late 70s, father and son Linus arrive, and Richard is intrigued enough by young Ben (who sees dead people) to tell him he could join them but not yet, only if he can wait. (Wait for what? To grow up, or is there already a wholesale slaughter planned?) And then there's Penny's age. She evidently does not remember the island. So just when did Charles Widmore leave/was exiled, and what happened before he did?
Best "this is awesome" moment: when everyone looked up and saw the gigantic statue, before Locke turned the wheel. I wonder how far back in the island's past they were at that point?
Best "this cracks me up" moment: Sawyer baffling Richard with superior time travel knowledge.
Most groanworthy moment: Sawyer, you lose character points by not telling Juliet immediately what Jin said and lying to her. Never mind the stupid triangle implication (when they gave him the "you can get over someone" monologue, it was clear fate was immediately going to prove him wrong already), this is just not ON between allies given all the "you have my back?" talk throughout the episode. In conclusion, Juliet is a magnet for Men Who Lie (see also: her husband, Goedwin, Ben...).
***
My fanfic rec of the day is set in the Iron Man movieverse and manages to accomplish several things I treasure:
1) Use of comicverse tropes and characters in a way that makes sense as a future of the movieverse. In this case, Tony's descent into complete alcoholism (I don't think the movies will do a complete Demon in the Bottle storyline, but there is enough set-up in the first film to indicate they'll do at least part of it), and his relationship with Steve Rogers/Captain America. (Who has his own movie scheduled, so we don't know yet exactly what he'll be like in the movieverse, which in turn means using comicverse characterisation is a sensible option.)
2) a slash story that avoids an "all you need is love" conclusion; Tony Stark, in either 'verse, is screwed up emotionally for many reasons, and being in love isn't going to fix that
3) bad sex. Err, let me explain. What I mean is this: all too often, whether it's het or slash, a first time story presents said first time as The Best Sex They Ever Had, utterly mind-blowing, etc. Which is why when I finally came across a Blake's 7 story - with Blake/Avon as the pairing in question - where said first time sex wasn't actually that great because Avon, being Avon, had lied when Blake had asked him whether he had had sex with a man before, plus they were on a cold planet, and it was really uncomfortable - I was stunned about how refreshing that felt, and how it made me believe in the characters even more. Stories like this are still rare, though. Well, here's another, where the sex, when it finally happens, is what you can expect when one party is drunk and the other a man wo's not that experienced. I loved it.
In conclusion: go, read:
What a piece of work is man?
no subject
Date: 2009-03-05 01:45 pm (UTC)It really is.
Technically, he should have arrived somewhere in the three years they spend with the DI - if I got it right, the Linuses came to the island in 1975.
Hm, maybe we're due for more flashbacks for their three years in the next episode? Which apparantly we have to wait for two weeks, curses.
Dan's sighting of a red-haired girl: I wasn't sure whether this was really meant to be Charlotte, but of course she would evoke Charlotte for him. Also, isn't Daniel due at least one more trip to the further past because of the opening sequence we saw at the start of the season?
I think another possibility is that Ben wasn't the only one who switched sides before the Purge. He even said as much at the mass grave. So Juliet could know other people who used to be with Dharma before they became Others.
True, and if so, Harper is old enough to be a candidate.
You're probably right about the Doylist reason for the Olivia/Amy switch, and I'll take your Watsonian reasoning about Horace and Olivia splitting once they were on the island until we hear something on screen, too.
But Juliet being the one he imprinted on of course also makes a lot of sense. Oh Ben, you're so nuts.
Though I disliked The Other Woman as an episode, I'm actually really fond of this new theory of mine for more examples of Ben's screwed-upness. If Juliet finds herself adored by Harry Potter!Ben in two weeks, you've read it here first. (How old was he when he came to the island anyway?)
Given his charming personality, I wouldn't be too surprised if a wife/girlfriend thought it easier to raise Penny without his "help.
Good point. BTW, you're the Des and Penny expert - wasn't Penny refered to as "Lady Penelope" at some point? If so, she definitely had that title through her mother.
She did have nice chemistry with Sawyer, though.
True. And also, Sayid was busy working for Ben on the mainland, hence wasn't available for a deadly but truthful fling. Speaking of Sayid, do you think he and Sun are both in the 70s as well, or did the island inconveniently drop them elsewhere?
no subject
Date: 2009-03-05 02:07 pm (UTC)It's possible. As far as I know we will be in Dharma times for at least a few more episodes, which goes with Dan's estimation that they're stuck now.
Also, isn't Daniel due at least one more trip to the further past because of the opening sequence we saw at the start of the season?
Do you think that's earlier than where they are now? When Sawyer, Juliet, Jin and Miles flashed for the last time, they were still at the well (which had been filled by that time), but there was no Orchid, so I'm thinking that will be build later.
Though I disliked The Other Woman as an episode, I'm actually really fond of this new theory of mine for more examples of Ben's screwed-upness. If Juliet finds herself adored by Harry Potter!Ben in two weeks, you've read it here first. (How old was he when he came to the island anyway?)
*g* The kid who played him was eleven at that point, so probably between 9 and 12 I think.
BTW, you're the Des and Penny expert - wasn't Penny refered to as "Lady Penelope" at some point?
I'm unable to check it now, but I am willing to bet that was Charlie teasing Desmond in Catch 22 (the only other possibility I could think of was the main monk in that same episode, and I think he was too busy expositioning about her father always donating so generously to the monastery to give any titles).
Speaking of Sayid, do you think he and Sun are both in the 70s as well, or did the island inconveniently drop them elsewhere?
Sun is totally the woman who stole the canoe with Frank, since there is no way they won't milk her separation from Jin at least until the end of the season. No earthly idea about Sayid, but wouldn't he have ended up in the same time period as Ilana?
no subject
Date: 2009-03-05 05:39 pm (UTC)Point taken. For some reason, I thought it was earlier, but you're right, the Orchid was already there when Daniel was moonlighting among the workers, so the season opener flashback has to be later.
Sun is totally the woman who stole the canoe with Frank, since there is no way they won't milk her separation from Jin at least until the end of the season. No earthly idea about Sayid, but wouldn't he have ended up in the same time period as Ilana?
True, but do we know WHEN exactly the new castaways are? I mean, I'm assuming the present, but we don't know for sure yet, do we? At any rate, while I like you believe Sun won't be reunited with Jin until the end of the season (and presumably will now believe Ben screwed her over with the ring and will want revenge again), I do wonder which rationale the show will use to explain why she and Sayid didn't end up with the other O6ers.
no subject
Date: 2009-03-06 08:34 am (UTC)We know that it must be later than Seasons 3 and 4, because Caesar was going through what is apparently Ben's office on Hydra (so I've been told. Apparently there were cut scenes in S 3.), and it looked abandoned. Also, they have the canoes, which at some point will show up on the beach camp side of the island, where they will be found by the Leftbehinds - and judging from the camp's condition, this was probably somewhere between 2005 and 2008. I assume we will get a scene mirroring the one where the LBs run from the people in the other canoe at some point, and given that he is the one who has the shotgun, I suppose the person shooting at the LBs will be Caesar.
No idea why Sun and Sayid would have ended up in the future, other than it is plot convenient.