Lost 5.12 Dead is Dead
Apr. 9th, 2009 09:24 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
selenakOr, an ode to the Ben/Island/Locke triangle as well as a character exploration of one Benjamin Linus. Designed to make yours truly absolutely and completely happy.
To get my one nitpick out of the way: Danielle Rousseau not recognizing "Henry Gale" as the Other who actually took her baby when a young man (btw, hilarious wig on Michael Emerson) when she captures him in season 2 is a bit hard to believe, especially since Ben has a pretty distinctive voice, so even if we assume she didn't see much of his face in the darkness, circumstances were such that she would have remembered. Though I suppose you could fanwank it that she knew he was the one who took Alex but had no idea he actually raised her as well. Still, one moment where my suspension of disbelief didn't quite work. (As opposed to the rest of the episode. Hieroglyphs about Anubis and the smoke monster? Bring it on, no problem!) Though it was an excellent scene otherwise. I'll say more about Ben and Alex later, so let me just say that teenage!Ethan as Ben's minion cracked me up to no end. (And btw, does that mean young Ben recruited the other child of the Dharma Initiative early on?)
Resurrected!John Locke is Locke at his most zen-like, and we get a neat role reversal to season 4 between him and Ben in terms of powerplay, and yet continuity. I just love that Ben spins his little intrigue with Cesar by which he could have gotten Locke killed again and then kills Cesar instead. Because he can, because he wants Locke to trust him again, because he changed his mind at the last minute, because he's eternally caught between jealousy and need where Locke is concerned, all of the above? Don't care, but it's just such a Ben thing to do. While it's an utter Locke thing to do that in the earlier scene, when in reply to "why don't we talk about the elephant in the room" Ben rattles off a rationalization for killing him, Locke says "actually, I was just hoping for an apology". Because that entirely fits with his matter-of-fact reaction to the last time Ben tried to kill him. He doesn't need to be told why, he gets the why. In fact, though Ben's the smarter one and always has been, Locke gets Ben on an emotional level, and probably is the only one who does. His point blank assertion that Ben didn't come here to be judged for breaking the rules (because Ben doesn't care about rules), he came to be judged because of Alex being another case in point. (Back in The Shape of Things to Come Locke was the only one who witnessed Ben's breakdown after Alex' death and later told him "I'm sorry".) As is Ben's admittance. I don't think anyone else would assume Ben is capable of feeling guilty, because they just see him as a monster.
The other rivalry, between Ben and Charles Widmore, is an interesting counterpoint. The scene with Widmore, Ben and baby Alex prefigures the stark tragedy of Alex' death scene, only then Ben is successful in his "if you want to kill her, go ahead" bluff, as Widmore backs off, as opposed to Keamy just taking him at his word and shooting Alex. Widmore reacts to the news the island healed young Ben and picked a new favourite about as thrilled as Ben is later when Locke shows up on the scene, but tries to contain this threat by simply going superior leader on Ben, down to the exile moment and the use of "boy" (which he also does in his and Ben's confrontation in The Shape of Things to Come). There is no sense of anything but hostility between the two. It's interesting that he ordered young Ben to kill Danielle (with kid!Ethan coming along for sidekickness); I can't help but wonder whether he hoped Danielle would kill Ben instead. Though killing someone does seem to be a kind of Other/Hostiles initiation rite. But as Locke with his father and Sawyer, Ben cheats. He doesn't kill Danielle Rousseau; he takes her baby instead. Why? I don't think at this point there is a deeper motive but wanting a child, someone to love and to love him back. Or, as was said re: Kate and Aaron last episode, it wasn't because Alex needed him, it was because he needed Alex. How much did I love that in the end, the island chose to appear to him as Alex? So much. (And btw, for conspiracy theorists wondering whether or not Christian is tellng the truth when claiming to speak for Jacob, it's interesting that Christian never shows up around Ben.) (And then the island proves it ships Ben/Locke though it's also a fan of angst and occasionally plays them off against each other. That's why it's a true triangle with everyone invested in everyone else, people!) I also approve of the show presenting the complicated matter of guilt for Alex' death without letting anyone off the hook. Widmore (via Keamy) is to blame, true, and he's kidding himself when declaring it's all Ben's fault; but Ben equally was kidding himself when blaming it all on Widmore and thinking killing Penny was the answer. Ben getting to live at the end of the episode feels earned because of two preceeding scenes; a) his ruthlessly honest conversation to Locke, in which he gets down to the essentials, that Alex would be alive if he had just stepped outside and surrendered himself to Keamy, and that by choosing not to and going for another bluff instead, he did killl her, and thus is guilty, and b) the fact that in his confrontation with Penny, he does not kill her. Kudos to everyone guessing seeing her with her child would make the difference. (Well, that, and Desmond getting up again, but Ben lowered his gun before Desmond did.) (And btw, thanks, show, for not killing another female character, but I was reasonably sure Penny was safe, being the embodiment of hope. ) Of course, being sentenced to live - and live with the loss of Alex and the awareness he is guilty - is its own kind of judgment, as is being told that he's to play nicely with John, damn it. :)
Other things going on: okay, so either Ben is lying (again) or really doesn't remember the O6 in his past, which would augur they leave the 70s before child!Ben gets back to the Dharma camp. Also, Illana and her cryptic statue sentence and weapons gathering basically confirms what I've said before: she's working for dear Charles W.
To get my one nitpick out of the way: Danielle Rousseau not recognizing "Henry Gale" as the Other who actually took her baby when a young man (btw, hilarious wig on Michael Emerson) when she captures him in season 2 is a bit hard to believe, especially since Ben has a pretty distinctive voice, so even if we assume she didn't see much of his face in the darkness, circumstances were such that she would have remembered. Though I suppose you could fanwank it that she knew he was the one who took Alex but had no idea he actually raised her as well. Still, one moment where my suspension of disbelief didn't quite work. (As opposed to the rest of the episode. Hieroglyphs about Anubis and the smoke monster? Bring it on, no problem!) Though it was an excellent scene otherwise. I'll say more about Ben and Alex later, so let me just say that teenage!Ethan as Ben's minion cracked me up to no end. (And btw, does that mean young Ben recruited the other child of the Dharma Initiative early on?)
Resurrected!John Locke is Locke at his most zen-like, and we get a neat role reversal to season 4 between him and Ben in terms of powerplay, and yet continuity. I just love that Ben spins his little intrigue with Cesar by which he could have gotten Locke killed again and then kills Cesar instead. Because he can, because he wants Locke to trust him again, because he changed his mind at the last minute, because he's eternally caught between jealousy and need where Locke is concerned, all of the above? Don't care, but it's just such a Ben thing to do. While it's an utter Locke thing to do that in the earlier scene, when in reply to "why don't we talk about the elephant in the room" Ben rattles off a rationalization for killing him, Locke says "actually, I was just hoping for an apology". Because that entirely fits with his matter-of-fact reaction to the last time Ben tried to kill him. He doesn't need to be told why, he gets the why. In fact, though Ben's the smarter one and always has been, Locke gets Ben on an emotional level, and probably is the only one who does. His point blank assertion that Ben didn't come here to be judged for breaking the rules (because Ben doesn't care about rules), he came to be judged because of Alex being another case in point. (Back in The Shape of Things to Come Locke was the only one who witnessed Ben's breakdown after Alex' death and later told him "I'm sorry".) As is Ben's admittance. I don't think anyone else would assume Ben is capable of feeling guilty, because they just see him as a monster.
The other rivalry, between Ben and Charles Widmore, is an interesting counterpoint. The scene with Widmore, Ben and baby Alex prefigures the stark tragedy of Alex' death scene, only then Ben is successful in his "if you want to kill her, go ahead" bluff, as Widmore backs off, as opposed to Keamy just taking him at his word and shooting Alex. Widmore reacts to the news the island healed young Ben and picked a new favourite about as thrilled as Ben is later when Locke shows up on the scene, but tries to contain this threat by simply going superior leader on Ben, down to the exile moment and the use of "boy" (which he also does in his and Ben's confrontation in The Shape of Things to Come). There is no sense of anything but hostility between the two. It's interesting that he ordered young Ben to kill Danielle (with kid!Ethan coming along for sidekickness); I can't help but wonder whether he hoped Danielle would kill Ben instead. Though killing someone does seem to be a kind of Other/Hostiles initiation rite. But as Locke with his father and Sawyer, Ben cheats. He doesn't kill Danielle Rousseau; he takes her baby instead. Why? I don't think at this point there is a deeper motive but wanting a child, someone to love and to love him back. Or, as was said re: Kate and Aaron last episode, it wasn't because Alex needed him, it was because he needed Alex. How much did I love that in the end, the island chose to appear to him as Alex? So much. (And btw, for conspiracy theorists wondering whether or not Christian is tellng the truth when claiming to speak for Jacob, it's interesting that Christian never shows up around Ben.) (And then the island proves it ships Ben/Locke though it's also a fan of angst and occasionally plays them off against each other. That's why it's a true triangle with everyone invested in everyone else, people!) I also approve of the show presenting the complicated matter of guilt for Alex' death without letting anyone off the hook. Widmore (via Keamy) is to blame, true, and he's kidding himself when declaring it's all Ben's fault; but Ben equally was kidding himself when blaming it all on Widmore and thinking killing Penny was the answer. Ben getting to live at the end of the episode feels earned because of two preceeding scenes; a) his ruthlessly honest conversation to Locke, in which he gets down to the essentials, that Alex would be alive if he had just stepped outside and surrendered himself to Keamy, and that by choosing not to and going for another bluff instead, he did killl her, and thus is guilty, and b) the fact that in his confrontation with Penny, he does not kill her. Kudos to everyone guessing seeing her with her child would make the difference. (Well, that, and Desmond getting up again, but Ben lowered his gun before Desmond did.) (And btw, thanks, show, for not killing another female character, but I was reasonably sure Penny was safe, being the embodiment of hope. ) Of course, being sentenced to live - and live with the loss of Alex and the awareness he is guilty - is its own kind of judgment, as is being told that he's to play nicely with John, damn it. :)
Other things going on: okay, so either Ben is lying (again) or really doesn't remember the O6 in his past, which would augur they leave the 70s before child!Ben gets back to the Dharma camp. Also, Illana and her cryptic statue sentence and weapons gathering basically confirms what I've said before: she's working for dear Charles W.
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no subject
Date: 2009-04-09 07:43 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-04-09 11:35 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-04-09 07:58 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-04-09 11:38 am (UTC)Re: Alex as an island/smoke monster avatar: it occurs to me that the other time Ben saw what was the island taking a dead person's form it was a woman as well, his mother, which was of course the sight that made him leave Dharmaville for the forest the first time. On the other hand, the other characters usually end up with male ghosts. (Except for Hurley. He gets male and female island ghosts alike.)
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Date: 2009-04-11 11:00 am (UTC)This show. will be. the death of me. I tell you! *fumes* Although I was actually a lot more afraid that someone would accidentally shoot Charlie or something, especially with Ben's heartfelt apology and all that. I wasn't really afraid for Penny, because that would have been too obvious. (Also, for the time being, I'm still undecided if this shooting either makes Desmond very lucky, or a T-1000, or if it means you can get grocery bags with a +5 armor rating in LA. Because, well, either the makeup department was lazy, or there was no bullet wound.)
Speaking of interesting shootings, I don't know if I should be convinced that Cesar is actually dead. I mean, the actor seems a bit too well known to be a four-episode bit part. On the other hand, maybe just a very expensive red herring.
btw, hilarious wig on Michael Emerson
Awesome, but nothing against the actor they got for Not-Quite-As-Young Widmore, who looked like he just came over from a ren fair. I liked the casting on the Lord Of the Flies version rather better.
It's interesting that he ordered young Ben to kill Danielle (with kid!Ethan coming along for sidekickness); I can't help but wonder whether he hoped Danielle would kill Ben instead.
It would fit with him hoping that Sun would kill Ben in LA, and I'm still not completely sure he wasn't hoping for Desmond killing Ben, and that's why he gave him Hawking's address. He really doesn't like to have his hands dirty, does he? (Apart from that whole thing where they can't kill each other for some reason.)
as is being told that he's to play nicely with John, damn it. :)
I loved that scene (I actually loved most of the episode, come to think of it. Apart from Medium Widmore.)! I guess the island notices by now that having Ben as a minion can be incredibly irritating...
Also, Illana and her cryptic statue sentence and weapons gathering basically confirms what I've said before: she's working for dear Charles W.
I'm still with you on this, but I couldn't help wondering if this storyline was meant for Charlotte at first, given that she was an
archeaologistcultural anthropologist. It would just have fit greatly with the statue.(btw, it's possible I won't respond to responses right away, since my internet, right now, is just on loan and pretty spotty.)
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Date: 2009-04-11 11:28 am (UTC):) I feel for you. As for an explanation, I think Eloise was probably right that the island wasn't done with Desmond yet, and as we know from Michael, that means Desmond doesn't get to die. (And his shopping bag gets to contain something mightily bullet deterring.)
Cesar: maybe he's like Naomi in that we'll see him in flashbacks again?
I like your idea about Illana's storyline originally meant for Charlotte before the actress absconded.
Middle Widmore: um, yes.
The island and its favourites: I notice that at no point did we hear about Widmore actually belonging to that exclusive club. Yes, Richard must have let him become leader at some point between the 50s and the 70s, but he seems not to have had dreams (as opposed to both Ben and John), or sightings of dead people (ditto), or special healings.
Also, clearly the solution is to be a bit more democratic and not to have a one chosen leader system anymore. Ben and Locke keep each other's weaknesses in checque pretty well if neither of them is sole in charge guy.
no subject
Date: 2009-04-11 11:59 am (UTC)Obviously that settles it. Canned food definitely has superior health benefits.
Btw, on the question whether Widmore knows exactly where Desmond and Penny are, which I'm still a bit fuzzy on, if he doesn't, it was such a great move by Ben to give him the boat's name, no? That seemed to be an odd detail otherwise.
Cesar: maybe he's like Naomi in that we'll see him in flashbacks again?
He could be yet another deterred Widmore operative. Although I really had him pecked as another Other.
The island and its favourites: I notice that at no point did we hear about Widmore actually belonging to that exclusive club. Yes, Richard must have let him become leader at some point between the 50s and the 70s, but he seems not to have had dreams (as opposed to both Ben and John), or sightings of dead people (ditto), or special healings.
He mentioned that he had nightmares in TSOTTC, but other than that... there was definite tension between him and Richard, and I wonder how it is significant that Richard seemed to deter to Ben, but clearly doesn't do the same for Charles. It definitely speaks for Widmore being more of an interim leader.
Also, clearly the solution is to be a bit more democratic and not to have a one chosen leader system anymore. Ben and Locke keep each other's weaknesses in checque pretty well if neither of them is sole in charge guy.
I'm wondering why they need a leader, anyway, to be honest.
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Date: 2009-04-11 12:01 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2009-04-11 02:37 pm (UTC)I wonder how it is significant that Richard seemed to defer to Ben, but clearly doesn't do the same for Charles. It definitely speaks for Widmore being more of an interim leader..
Quite. Also I'm with you in "why do they need a leader at all?" (anarchy on the island = win?), but then again maybe it's so that Jacob has someone to talk to. *g* And I haven't given up my old idea that being the leader, if you're not Richard who is the panchen lama anyway, eventually will make you into an avatar if you don't quit. Not that Widmore knows that. He probably thinks he'll become immortal like Richard if he gets the island back. Oh, and I think he's the only one who says "my" island; both Ben and Locke are hooked on having destinies, but they see the possession going the other way around. (And probably Locke is appealing for the island because he's actually trying to figure out what the island wants whereas Ben after a few years of leadership is more into making everyone else do what he wants.)
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Date: 2009-04-14 12:23 pm (UTC)There is one very obvious reason to include the boat's name, which is that it is the name of the last book Desmond was planning to read in his life, as per LTDA, so lots of possible connotations there, not all of them good (since it was also the book Penny hid her letter in, which in turn convinced Des halfway that not all was completely lost, not all of them bad, either). If they just wanted to reference that, though, they could just have shown the name, since I don't think most of the audience except for the fans of the character will remember that detail, anyway.
As for the grandson: if we're going very technical, we don't know if Widmore knows about the kid, since they cut that scene. And it makes sense that they changed boats after dropping of the O6 and Frank, so he could know that they are on a boat, but not which boat.
but then again maybe it's so that Jacob has someone to talk to. *g*
I'd feel really sorry for him if he had to talk to Widmore for a longer time...
And I haven't given up my old idea that being the leader, if you're not Richard who is the panchen lama anyway, eventually will make you into an avatar if you don't quit. Not that Widmore knows that. He probably thinks he'll become immortal like Richard if he gets the island back.
Makes sense.
Oh, and I think he's the only one who says "my" island; both Ben and Locke are hooked on having destinies, but they see the possession going the other way around. (And probably Locke is appealing for the island because he's actually trying to figure out what the island wants whereas Ben after a few years of leadership is more into making everyone else do what he wants.)
Yeah, Ben may want what's best for the island, but obviously he is the only one who knows what that is. And Widmore just wants to have it, because nobody is supposed to play with his shiny toy. In that company, Locke must seem downright refreshing. (Except when he doesn't want to push buttons.)
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Date: 2009-04-14 05:36 pm (UTC)