Links, 1602, and B5
Apr. 27th, 2004 11:59 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
selenakA lot of things happened to make me into a happy fangirl this morning. Firstly, ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
andrastewhite and sabine101 came up with the ficathon to rule them all. You know, and in the darkness, that is, the multiverse, bind them. Hop over and sign on immediately! It's the last, best hope for crossovers. The final frontier breached. You want to join, you know you want to.
Secondly, Luminosity has a new vid out, which would be great in any case, but it's also about what I just reviewed the other day - Kill Bill. Using material from both volumes. Amazing.
Thirdly, I purchased the last issue of 1602. Observe me doing the dance of geekish joy.
You know, I had only a very vague knowledge of the Marvelverse before this series, other than through the X-Men movies, the Spiderman movie, about four comics and Andraste's lj comments, but now I'm ever so curious. Neil Gaiman's Elizabethan Fury is such a fascinating character that I wonder whether the present-day version comes close. And hey, if the last issue's revelations about the Inquisitor's past hadn't mollified me already in regards to Magneto, the two scenes here between him and Javier, what with "Enrico" and "Carlos", snark, threats, teaming-up and lastly the shoulder clasp and the "take care of my kids" request would have done it. There must be fanfic, clearly.
Neil Gaiman giving the Elizabethan topos of girl dressing up as boy and man falling in love with her a final twist by having Angel confess he loved Jean when he thought she was a man was typical for the matter of fact way same-sex relations are treated in his work, and well done. And hey, the entire "President for Life" thing, and "not my America" - very topical, wouldn't you say?
Fourthly, season 4 of Babylon 5 has come out on DVD in my region. I had a really crappy day yesterday otherwise, due to being sick with a cold and some fever, but that and 1602 cheered me up completely. After I bought it, I tried to be less predictable, and instead of going for my ususal Centauri orgy of watching the first six episodes (which I also have on video, natch) uninterrupted, I started with Epiphanies and watched through Face of the Enemy.
Epiphanies does a truly good job with the difficult task of picking up after the monumental Shadow War arc has been finished. It's not an episode you find on people's Top Tens (and probably won't make mine, either, simply because there are so many great other episodes to choose from), but I'm really fond of it. We get progression on the Garibaldi plot - and the image of him erasing the face he painted on the mirror says a lot about the state of his psyche - as well as about the only nice thing which happens to Garibaldi after his capture in the season 3 finale and before the last-but-one episode of the fourth season - G'Kar's welcome. It's also one of those rare instances where you see the playful, gleeful side of G'Kar come out after his capture and before season 5. Brainwashing or no brainwashing, one can't help but feel that Garibaldi has a point about the different ways he and Sheridan got treated after their respective mysterious returns, and the warmth G'Kar shows, and the relieved and delighted way Garibaldi reacts, is a rare break from that.
Speaking of G'Kar, despite my firm resolution to remind myself I like the show in its entirety, and not just the part of it that can be titled "The Londo and G'Kar Show, co-starring Vir Cotto", I so have to agree with Andraste each time I see the meeting between him and Londo in this episode. Keep all your pretty boys and give me that. The intensity. Guh!
searose once called the John and Scorpius interaction on Farscape "a very bizarre courtship ritual" (from Scorpius' side at least), and slash jokes aside, you can use this description as well for the season 4 Londo and G'Kar interaction. Until Dust To Dust, Londo did his best to avoid G'Kar, and vice versa. When they ended up in the same room nonetheless, as in Convictions, there was no doubt G'Kar was absolutely sincere in his declaration he'd rather die than help Londo survive. Then, post-mind rape, they had their off-screen first deal about Refa. And then those first six episodes, to be raved about at a future point, happen, which is definitely the point at which Londo's feelings about G'Kar turn from hate (though one could argue he might have stopped hating G'Kar personally, as opposed to Narns in general, as early as post-Coming of Shadows) to compassion to... what? His reaction to seeing G'Kar again on B5 in Epiphanies is at first of the old school - looking away. And then he steels himself and goes to meet him, resulting in G'Kar's "you don't exist in my universe anymore" declaration. (Fat chance.)
The next time they'll meet in Sheridan's office, with G'Kar keeping to his resolution of not talking to Londo, but then we get to No Surrender, No Retreat, and...
...okay. Other plots. Stop gushing. Bad Selena.
Of course, a major reason for me to like Epiphanies is the fact Bester comes to visit. ("I trust my usual quarters in the brig are still available. I've grown so attached to the place.") He's his usual acerbic self with the command staff and Lyta, but we also get what is arguably Bester at his most vulnerable before season 5's Phoenix Rising, if not ever. Because when he talks to the frozen Carolyn, there is nobody else around to hear, impress, or manipulate. What you get here is what he feels, and it's not just the love for his mistress but also the loneliness (especially for someone who got raised to consider himself part of a group first and foremost) and the fact that, contrary to Sheridan's supposition in Rising Star, Bester does have regrets about the people he uses that are striking.
The character who doesn't come off well in this episode is Sheridan. Not only is he unnecessarily smug in his interaction with Bester (who might try the patience of a saint, as Sheridan tells Delenn, but that "seems we're still stuck with each other, but like I said, it's an imperfect universe" directly after Bester saw Z'ha'dum explode and with it his hope for helping Carolyn was uncalled for), he's downright cruel in his final scene with Lyta. Calling her out on the fact she triggered the Za'ha'dum destruction mechanism was justified; threatening to hand her over to the Psi Corps if she disobeys him was not. And it does support my argument that for all the sanctification of Sheridan going on in the later seasons, his treatment of Lyta is the one character flaw JMS means to be perceived as a flaw, which will have fatal results. Because not only does Sheridan have a double standard going there - compare this threat to Lyta with his confrontations with Garibaldi after Garibaldi gave his anti-Sheridan interview; at no point does Garibaldi ever get threatenened with being handed over to Clark, which would be the equivalent - but said threat is just part of a pattern.
As Lyta points out to Zack, she's never talked to unless someone wants something for her. Later on, in Moments of Transition, she'll be kicked out of her quarters. (Yes, the station needs to save money, but again, Garibaldi gets to keep his quarters right until the moment when he leaves the station.) When she's forced to accept Bester's offer to rejoin the Corps so she can work, and wears the gloves and the pin again, nobody comments or asks why, which, considering Lyta's feelings about the Corps are no secret, you'd think they would. Zack aside, as far as the command staff of B5 is concerned Lyta truly only exists when she's needed to scan or threaten someone, and one can't blame her for returning the rejection in kind in season 5.
The final irony is that Lyta, in the end, resembles no one as much as Bester, whom she hates on more than just a blip versus Psi Cop level. (Of her three arguments on why she blew up Z'ha'dum - because of the Vorlons, because the Shadow technology should not fall into anyone's hands, and because Bester deserves to be hurt, "to find out what it's like to lose someone he cares about", the third is the one that she puts the most passion into.) Think of Lyta as she will be near the end of season 5, dressed in black leather, forcing someone she had already defeated, who posed no danger anymore, to committ suicide just because she can, willing to sacrifice other lives for what she thinks is the greater good of all telepaths - and you've got Bester's female mirror image. Not that either of them ever notices.
More about the other episodes I (re-)watched later. Will attempt to talk about Minbari and Delenn and Lennier, and Delenn and Neroon, instead of raving about Londo and G'Kar in No Surrender, No Retreat. (I hear there was some battle about Proxima III in that episode. Can't say I noticed much. As far as I'm concerned, that's the episode where Londo gets G'Kar to talk to him again.)
andrastewhite and sabine101 came up with the ficathon to rule them all. You know, and in the darkness, that is, the multiverse, bind them. Hop over and sign on immediately! It's the last, best hope for crossovers. The final frontier breached. You want to join, you know you want to.Secondly, Luminosity has a new vid out, which would be great in any case, but it's also about what I just reviewed the other day - Kill Bill. Using material from both volumes. Amazing.
Thirdly, I purchased the last issue of 1602. Observe me doing the dance of geekish joy.
You know, I had only a very vague knowledge of the Marvelverse before this series, other than through the X-Men movies, the Spiderman movie, about four comics and Andraste's lj comments, but now I'm ever so curious. Neil Gaiman's Elizabethan Fury is such a fascinating character that I wonder whether the present-day version comes close. And hey, if the last issue's revelations about the Inquisitor's past hadn't mollified me already in regards to Magneto, the two scenes here between him and Javier, what with "Enrico" and "Carlos", snark, threats, teaming-up and lastly the shoulder clasp and the "take care of my kids" request would have done it. There must be fanfic, clearly.
Neil Gaiman giving the Elizabethan topos of girl dressing up as boy and man falling in love with her a final twist by having Angel confess he loved Jean when he thought she was a man was typical for the matter of fact way same-sex relations are treated in his work, and well done. And hey, the entire "President for Life" thing, and "not my America" - very topical, wouldn't you say?
Fourthly, season 4 of Babylon 5 has come out on DVD in my region. I had a really crappy day yesterday otherwise, due to being sick with a cold and some fever, but that and 1602 cheered me up completely. After I bought it, I tried to be less predictable, and instead of going for my ususal Centauri orgy of watching the first six episodes (which I also have on video, natch) uninterrupted, I started with Epiphanies and watched through Face of the Enemy.
Epiphanies does a truly good job with the difficult task of picking up after the monumental Shadow War arc has been finished. It's not an episode you find on people's Top Tens (and probably won't make mine, either, simply because there are so many great other episodes to choose from), but I'm really fond of it. We get progression on the Garibaldi plot - and the image of him erasing the face he painted on the mirror says a lot about the state of his psyche - as well as about the only nice thing which happens to Garibaldi after his capture in the season 3 finale and before the last-but-one episode of the fourth season - G'Kar's welcome. It's also one of those rare instances where you see the playful, gleeful side of G'Kar come out after his capture and before season 5. Brainwashing or no brainwashing, one can't help but feel that Garibaldi has a point about the different ways he and Sheridan got treated after their respective mysterious returns, and the warmth G'Kar shows, and the relieved and delighted way Garibaldi reacts, is a rare break from that.
Speaking of G'Kar, despite my firm resolution to remind myself I like the show in its entirety, and not just the part of it that can be titled "The Londo and G'Kar Show, co-starring Vir Cotto", I so have to agree with Andraste each time I see the meeting between him and Londo in this episode. Keep all your pretty boys and give me that. The intensity. Guh!
searose once called the John and Scorpius interaction on Farscape "a very bizarre courtship ritual" (from Scorpius' side at least), and slash jokes aside, you can use this description as well for the season 4 Londo and G'Kar interaction. Until Dust To Dust, Londo did his best to avoid G'Kar, and vice versa. When they ended up in the same room nonetheless, as in Convictions, there was no doubt G'Kar was absolutely sincere in his declaration he'd rather die than help Londo survive. Then, post-mind rape, they had their off-screen first deal about Refa. And then those first six episodes, to be raved about at a future point, happen, which is definitely the point at which Londo's feelings about G'Kar turn from hate (though one could argue he might have stopped hating G'Kar personally, as opposed to Narns in general, as early as post-Coming of Shadows) to compassion to... what? His reaction to seeing G'Kar again on B5 in Epiphanies is at first of the old school - looking away. And then he steels himself and goes to meet him, resulting in G'Kar's "you don't exist in my universe anymore" declaration. (Fat chance.) The next time they'll meet in Sheridan's office, with G'Kar keeping to his resolution of not talking to Londo, but then we get to No Surrender, No Retreat, and...
...okay. Other plots. Stop gushing. Bad Selena.
Of course, a major reason for me to like Epiphanies is the fact Bester comes to visit. ("I trust my usual quarters in the brig are still available. I've grown so attached to the place.") He's his usual acerbic self with the command staff and Lyta, but we also get what is arguably Bester at his most vulnerable before season 5's Phoenix Rising, if not ever. Because when he talks to the frozen Carolyn, there is nobody else around to hear, impress, or manipulate. What you get here is what he feels, and it's not just the love for his mistress but also the loneliness (especially for someone who got raised to consider himself part of a group first and foremost) and the fact that, contrary to Sheridan's supposition in Rising Star, Bester does have regrets about the people he uses that are striking.
The character who doesn't come off well in this episode is Sheridan. Not only is he unnecessarily smug in his interaction with Bester (who might try the patience of a saint, as Sheridan tells Delenn, but that "seems we're still stuck with each other, but like I said, it's an imperfect universe" directly after Bester saw Z'ha'dum explode and with it his hope for helping Carolyn was uncalled for), he's downright cruel in his final scene with Lyta. Calling her out on the fact she triggered the Za'ha'dum destruction mechanism was justified; threatening to hand her over to the Psi Corps if she disobeys him was not. And it does support my argument that for all the sanctification of Sheridan going on in the later seasons, his treatment of Lyta is the one character flaw JMS means to be perceived as a flaw, which will have fatal results. Because not only does Sheridan have a double standard going there - compare this threat to Lyta with his confrontations with Garibaldi after Garibaldi gave his anti-Sheridan interview; at no point does Garibaldi ever get threatenened with being handed over to Clark, which would be the equivalent - but said threat is just part of a pattern.
As Lyta points out to Zack, she's never talked to unless someone wants something for her. Later on, in Moments of Transition, she'll be kicked out of her quarters. (Yes, the station needs to save money, but again, Garibaldi gets to keep his quarters right until the moment when he leaves the station.) When she's forced to accept Bester's offer to rejoin the Corps so she can work, and wears the gloves and the pin again, nobody comments or asks why, which, considering Lyta's feelings about the Corps are no secret, you'd think they would. Zack aside, as far as the command staff of B5 is concerned Lyta truly only exists when she's needed to scan or threaten someone, and one can't blame her for returning the rejection in kind in season 5.
The final irony is that Lyta, in the end, resembles no one as much as Bester, whom she hates on more than just a blip versus Psi Cop level. (Of her three arguments on why she blew up Z'ha'dum - because of the Vorlons, because the Shadow technology should not fall into anyone's hands, and because Bester deserves to be hurt, "to find out what it's like to lose someone he cares about", the third is the one that she puts the most passion into.) Think of Lyta as she will be near the end of season 5, dressed in black leather, forcing someone she had already defeated, who posed no danger anymore, to committ suicide just because she can, willing to sacrifice other lives for what she thinks is the greater good of all telepaths - and you've got Bester's female mirror image. Not that either of them ever notices.
More about the other episodes I (re-)watched later. Will attempt to talk about Minbari and Delenn and Lennier, and Delenn and Neroon, instead of raving about Londo and G'Kar in No Surrender, No Retreat. (I hear there was some battle about Proxima III in that episode. Can't say I noticed much. As far as I'm concerned, that's the episode where Londo gets G'Kar to talk to him again.)
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2004-04-27 05:01 am (UTC)a very bizarre courtship ritual" (from Scorpius' side at least)
Searose possesses a marvelous brain. *excited* We'll be rooming together in September at Dragon*Con.
no subject
Date: 2004-04-27 06:07 am (UTC)As for Lyta, and the way she got treated: my theory is that this happens for several reasons. If you recall, when she came back from Vorlon space, everyone was pretty much freaked out already, and that was when they still thought Vorlons were angels. After the Kosh II experience, anything connected with Vorlons is deeply suspicious to them.
Secondly, they got burned with Talia. (When you rewatch season 1, it's amazing how much more (non-romantic) interaction Talia gets than Lyta does with the crew - Sinclair takes her out to a friendly dinner, for example, something that would never occur to Sheridan to do with Lyta.) There is probably a subconscious or conscious fear Lyta could have an alternate self as well.
Thirdly, and this isn't very flattering to our crew, I think you can make a case for bigotry and prejudice towards telepaths on the part of several of our heroes - albeit in a more subtle way than, say, by William Edgars. It's not that Sheridan & Co. aren't sincere when, say, they support Talia versus Bester, or later Byron. But telepaths are still the other, and when they're powerful (which Lyta clearly is even at this stage) as opposed to being in need of protection, they're doubly the other.
no subject
Date: 2004-04-27 06:16 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-04-27 06:26 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-04-27 08:05 am (UTC)Lyta's complex and sometimes cruel personality also relates interestingly to her Vorlon connection - she's the most Vorlon-influenced of all the characters, for better and for worse.
Talia was one of my least favorite characters, although I might have come to like her more if her arc had gone anywhere.
no subject
Date: 2004-04-27 09:40 am (UTC)Didn't JMS say in an interview, re: Lyta, that "the worst enemy is a friend you've treated badly and sent away"? But okay, interviews aren't canon per so. I did get the impression, though, that we were meant to see where Lyta's bitterness came from. Also, The Corps is Mother, the Corps is Father, while not including Sheridan on screen, gave us the view of the (Corps) telepaths, and Zack, who doesn't say anything Sheridan hasn't said before, is decidedly looking like a bigot.
Talia: would presumably have gotten roughly Lyta's arc, with the Ironheart gift replacing Lyta's Vorlon connection. I'm still glad we got Lyta back instead. Though it's interesting to wonder whether the continuing existence of Talia would have meant no Marcus Cole, or if he had been there, what on Earth his storyline would have been (since presumably old-fashioned romantic Marcus would not have tried to court a woman who's already in a relationship).
no subject
Date: 2004-04-27 10:07 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-04-28 07:16 am (UTC)A lot of things Bester's Wind-up Garibaldi said were NOT far from the truth, IMHO. The way Sheridan treated Lyta was about the lowest of the low, and I always wanted someone to rub his nose in it. I certainly saw where Lyta's bitterness came from...
no subject
Date: 2004-04-27 05:39 am (UTC)I don't know about the rest of the world's Magneto fans, but I'm certainly delighted. What he did to maintain his cover was ruthless, but Magneto wouldn't be Magneto without ruthlessness. It's just been of a slightly different variety in this universe.
I fear that as far as I'm aware Fury without the historical trappings is a fairly typical American spy figure, although I haven't actually read much about him. He doesn't interact with the X-Men much and they're my area of expertise.
And yes, I'll write fic sooner or later *g*.
no subject
Date: 2004-04-27 06:21 am (UTC)Yes. I mean, movieverse Magneto was ready to kill of the non-mutant part of the human race (though I like to think he wouldn't have done that without the immediate provocation by Stryker).
I fear that as far as I'm aware Fury without the historical trappings is a fairly typical American spy figure
Pity. Though what with him being sent to the future/present, maybe we'll meet Elizabethan Fury again?
And yes, I'll write fic sooner or later *g*.
Yay!
no subject
Date: 2004-04-29 12:21 am (UTC)Yes - he'd been having a *really* bad day that day, and the opportunity was right there. I don't think it's something he'd try to do under other circumstances - which doesn't mean he wouldn't try some other plan that involves killing lots of humans.
Though what with him being sent to the future/present, maybe we'll meet Elizabethan Fury again?
That interview you sent me the link to (thanks!) does say that Neil has other ideas - maybe writing about Elizabethan!Fury in the future is one of them.
oh, and also:
Date: 2004-04-27 07:32 am (UTC)http://www.comicworldnews.com/index.cgi?column=mysteries&page=11
no subject
Date: 2004-04-27 06:11 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-04-27 06:26 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-04-29 06:19 am (UTC)The next six weeks (better make that two months) I'll be buried under a pile of university-related stuff anyway (with a brief break for FedCon), but maybe we could arrange something for the summer :)
It's just so much more fun when you can actually discuss things afterwards (or *fangirl* certain characters while you're at it, without getting odd stares from normals who just happened to enter the living room right when you were bouncing with delight) *g*
no subject
Date: 2004-04-30 03:37 am (UTC)Okay, a summer mini con it is then....
no subject
Date: 2004-05-08 01:29 pm (UTC)Oh, yes... My brother is particularly good at that. He managed to completely ruin "Sleeping in Light" for me the very first time I saw it when he kept on making fun of pretty much everything and saying how stupid and cheesy it all was. ARGH.
Okay, a summer mini con it is then....
Sounds good to me :)
Btw, I *still* haven't managed to get my hands on an episode or two of Blake's 7, so if you have that one DVD as well (if there even are any DVDs of that show?), I'd be very interested...
no subject
Date: 2004-05-11 12:22 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-04-27 07:15 am (UTC)1602 sounds most intriguing, even to someone whose knowledge of the Marvel universe is derived solely from the X-Men films. I hope it will be released as a complete graphic novel soon and then I can catch up with it.
no subject
Date: 2004-04-27 05:00 pm (UTC)From what I gather from recent Neil Gaiman interviews, it definitely will be soon. I can't wait myself, since I've been waiting for all the issues to be collected before I start reading them. I get too impatient waiting between issues.
no subject
Date: 2004-04-28 01:42 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-04-27 09:32 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-04-27 09:44 am (UTC)