Catching up with the Jossverse
May. 12th, 2004 02:27 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
selenakFirstly, The Girl in Question has arrived, and so you get two reviews. Concurrently. *g*
Time Bomb: I don't know why I didn't love that episode. It wasn't bad at all, and it's not like I have issues with the season itself - au contraire, I love it. Yet this particular installment left me with mixed feelings like none since You're Welcome. Perhaps because Angel's sudden urgency in getting rid of Illyria didn't quite fit with the relative lack of interest he had shown in the previous two episodes. (Although of course he's excused for Origin on Connor grounds.) Still, the man even gave Jasmine the "you know, you could try join the team" speech when her powers were drastically reduced, and Illyria did nowhere near the damage Jasmine was responsible for.
Wesley deliberately lying to Angel while figuring out a way to contain and save Illyria instead of killing her made perfect sense given all that had happened previously, and ought to have been great drama holdling my complete interest, but perhaps because Angel was behaving so unsympathetically throughout the episode, there wasn't nearly enough conflict. (For me or Wes.) This being said - one of the few things that have remained with Wesley from his first appearance on BTVS, season 3 to his present edge-of-a-breakdown incarnation is the "the good of the many before the good of the one" principle. Saving Illyria, though, is not done because she could be of use, and by the end of the episode he doesn't even pretend it was - it is something he does for himself. Because he needs "it" - and how eerie is it to hear Wesley refer to Illyria as "it" while obsessing about her?
Gunn: am in two minds about his rescue. Because, you know, I liked the idea of him being tortured in the suburbs as a cruel end of his arc. Yes, of course it was punishment out of all proportion, but - it was an ending caused by all the previous events. It had an inner logic. No he's back, I'm not sure whether I can still be as interested in him as before, and this has been the first season where I was interested in Gunn at all.
The Girl in Question: ME scribes, you're adorable. This is one of those tongue-in-cheek episodes like The Zeppo or Storyteller that fans either love or hate. Put me firmly into the "love" camp, and not just because my darling girl and Drusilla had a cameo, and Darla/Dru is more canon than ever. Yes, there was silliness aplenty, but it was the right kind. (As opposed to the wrong kind - I speak the words "Provider" and shudder.) Complete with ME nod (and parody) to and of fanfic clichés. (See also: Superstar, or the Spike/Buffybot scenes which were so a parody of Spuffy fanfic at the time with their "darn your sinister attraction!" dialogues.) Looks like it's canon now that both Angel and Spike can be topped in the sack.*g*
Italy was the Italy of American movies, and deliberately so; a realistic depiction wouldn't have fitted with the overall tone. That brief 50s flashback in black and white with Spike and Dru in the appropriate clothes was a scream, and the present day scenes reminded me of a Billy Wilder "Americans Abroad" farce, Avanti, Avanti. (Spike and Angel? Are so Jack Lemmon and Walter Matthau. Even though the later isn't in Avanti, Avanti.) I'm completely on board with the fact they never actually find Buffy. It wouldn't have been appropriate if they had done so, because it wasn't the girl (in question) they were looking for, it was another golden cup, another price in their rivalry.
(Meanwhile, I'm relieved City Girls wasn't Jossed, am approving of Buffy dancing the night away again - when was the last time we saw her do this? Must have been season 4 of BtVS, methinks - and love, love, love Andrew being on such good terms with Buffy that he crashes in her apartment. )
Speaking of Andrew: Storyteller wasn't just meta and tongue-in-cheek parody, it also was important in the overall development of its main character. The Girl in Question has a similar serious side. Not for Angel and Spike; I'm talking about the Wesley, Illyria and the Burkles subplot. Those who don't remember the past are condemmed to repeat it, as the saying goes, but Wesley remembers. When Lilah showed up dressed as Fred, he not only accepted it but later humiliated Lilah by telling her to keep the glasses on, when she wanted to remove them. However, Illyria's offer of a pretend-Fred is rejected this time around. Season 4 Wesley wouldn't have been able to do that. Season 5 Wes has both sets of memories, and is done with illusions.
For himself, that is. The Burkles, the only certified good, happy and functional parents in the entire Jossverse (and really, why did no one think of calling them before?) get presented with the illusion of their dead daughter. Illyria's motive in giving them this is ambiguous. She does it for Wesley, but is it to punish him or to help him, or both? In the last episode, Wesley rejected the idea that Illyria might think of him as a friend, but then, gods don't do the friendship thing. And Illyria's attraction to Wesley - is it because of the remaining Fred memories, because he first came to her attention by killing another human being, because he's obsessed with her and the only one who actually gives a damn whether she lives or dies right now? In any case, it's a fascinating relationship, a counterpoint to both the one with Lilah and the one with Fred. Illyria might just be outside of the Madonna/Whore dichotymy Wesley still tends to classify women under.
The award for best performance of the season definitely goes to Amy Acker, btw. The way she moves from Illyria to Illyria-as-Fred to Illyria-as-Fred-but-talking-as-Illyria and back is awesome, and in the later, she has to suggest the difference only through voice and body language, without the help of the blue make-up.
Bits and Pieces:
- "He's eating cookie dough!"
- "Nuns are my thing - everyone knows that"
- "Concurrently"
- and all the glorious OTT descriptions of the Immortal (150 years in a Tibetan monastery - take that, Angel)
In other news, the beta'd Centauri Telepaths story is up. I named it White Lies.
Time Bomb: I don't know why I didn't love that episode. It wasn't bad at all, and it's not like I have issues with the season itself - au contraire, I love it. Yet this particular installment left me with mixed feelings like none since You're Welcome. Perhaps because Angel's sudden urgency in getting rid of Illyria didn't quite fit with the relative lack of interest he had shown in the previous two episodes. (Although of course he's excused for Origin on Connor grounds.) Still, the man even gave Jasmine the "you know, you could try join the team" speech when her powers were drastically reduced, and Illyria did nowhere near the damage Jasmine was responsible for.
Wesley deliberately lying to Angel while figuring out a way to contain and save Illyria instead of killing her made perfect sense given all that had happened previously, and ought to have been great drama holdling my complete interest, but perhaps because Angel was behaving so unsympathetically throughout the episode, there wasn't nearly enough conflict. (For me or Wes.) This being said - one of the few things that have remained with Wesley from his first appearance on BTVS, season 3 to his present edge-of-a-breakdown incarnation is the "the good of the many before the good of the one" principle. Saving Illyria, though, is not done because she could be of use, and by the end of the episode he doesn't even pretend it was - it is something he does for himself. Because he needs "it" - and how eerie is it to hear Wesley refer to Illyria as "it" while obsessing about her?
Gunn: am in two minds about his rescue. Because, you know, I liked the idea of him being tortured in the suburbs as a cruel end of his arc. Yes, of course it was punishment out of all proportion, but - it was an ending caused by all the previous events. It had an inner logic. No he's back, I'm not sure whether I can still be as interested in him as before, and this has been the first season where I was interested in Gunn at all.
The Girl in Question: ME scribes, you're adorable. This is one of those tongue-in-cheek episodes like The Zeppo or Storyteller that fans either love or hate. Put me firmly into the "love" camp, and not just because my darling girl and Drusilla had a cameo, and Darla/Dru is more canon than ever. Yes, there was silliness aplenty, but it was the right kind. (As opposed to the wrong kind - I speak the words "Provider" and shudder.) Complete with ME nod (and parody) to and of fanfic clichés. (See also: Superstar, or the Spike/Buffybot scenes which were so a parody of Spuffy fanfic at the time with their "darn your sinister attraction!" dialogues.) Looks like it's canon now that both Angel and Spike can be topped in the sack.*g*
Italy was the Italy of American movies, and deliberately so; a realistic depiction wouldn't have fitted with the overall tone. That brief 50s flashback in black and white with Spike and Dru in the appropriate clothes was a scream, and the present day scenes reminded me of a Billy Wilder "Americans Abroad" farce, Avanti, Avanti. (Spike and Angel? Are so Jack Lemmon and Walter Matthau. Even though the later isn't in Avanti, Avanti.) I'm completely on board with the fact they never actually find Buffy. It wouldn't have been appropriate if they had done so, because it wasn't the girl (in question) they were looking for, it was another golden cup, another price in their rivalry.
(Meanwhile, I'm relieved City Girls wasn't Jossed, am approving of Buffy dancing the night away again - when was the last time we saw her do this? Must have been season 4 of BtVS, methinks - and love, love, love Andrew being on such good terms with Buffy that he crashes in her apartment. )
Speaking of Andrew: Storyteller wasn't just meta and tongue-in-cheek parody, it also was important in the overall development of its main character. The Girl in Question has a similar serious side. Not for Angel and Spike; I'm talking about the Wesley, Illyria and the Burkles subplot. Those who don't remember the past are condemmed to repeat it, as the saying goes, but Wesley remembers. When Lilah showed up dressed as Fred, he not only accepted it but later humiliated Lilah by telling her to keep the glasses on, when she wanted to remove them. However, Illyria's offer of a pretend-Fred is rejected this time around. Season 4 Wesley wouldn't have been able to do that. Season 5 Wes has both sets of memories, and is done with illusions.
For himself, that is. The Burkles, the only certified good, happy and functional parents in the entire Jossverse (and really, why did no one think of calling them before?) get presented with the illusion of their dead daughter. Illyria's motive in giving them this is ambiguous. She does it for Wesley, but is it to punish him or to help him, or both? In the last episode, Wesley rejected the idea that Illyria might think of him as a friend, but then, gods don't do the friendship thing. And Illyria's attraction to Wesley - is it because of the remaining Fred memories, because he first came to her attention by killing another human being, because he's obsessed with her and the only one who actually gives a damn whether she lives or dies right now? In any case, it's a fascinating relationship, a counterpoint to both the one with Lilah and the one with Fred. Illyria might just be outside of the Madonna/Whore dichotymy Wesley still tends to classify women under.
The award for best performance of the season definitely goes to Amy Acker, btw. The way she moves from Illyria to Illyria-as-Fred to Illyria-as-Fred-but-talking-as-Illyria and back is awesome, and in the later, she has to suggest the difference only through voice and body language, without the help of the blue make-up.
Bits and Pieces:
- "He's eating cookie dough!"
- "Nuns are my thing - everyone knows that"
- "Concurrently"
- and all the glorious OTT descriptions of the Immortal (150 years in a Tibetan monastery - take that, Angel)
In other news, the beta'd Centauri Telepaths story is up. I named it White Lies.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2004-05-12 05:48 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-05-12 05:55 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-05-12 05:56 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-05-12 06:00 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-05-12 06:24 am (UTC)Did anyone else think "Highlander" as soon as they referred to The Immortal? Especially since the backflash to drunken 1890s (or whatever) Angel & Spike was so like the portrayal of MacLeod's drunken duel in the first film?
no subject
Date: 2004-05-12 11:07 am (UTC)(Though of course it was a wise thing that they didn't show the guy - no one could have survived that OTT build up, and besides the point was that he was as much a projection as Buffy to them.)
no subject
Date: 2004-05-12 06:42 am (UTC)Illyria might just be outside of the Madonna/Whore dichotymy Wesley still tends to classify women under.
Ohh.. good observation.
no subject
Date: 2004-05-12 11:05 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-05-12 02:45 pm (UTC)I'd never thought of that before but now that you mention it it explains so much.
no subject
Date: 2004-05-13 12:21 am (UTC)I know some "Angel" fans complained that the episode focused too much on Buffy, but think the backhanded message of TGIQ is that the ep really isn't about Buffy at all -- it really tells us nothing about Buffy and a lot about the boys. And I love the idea that Buffy is out there involved in stories that we don't know about. I'd feel a little more convinced by the "moving on" theme if there was any evidence that Buffy actually knew Spike was alive (!) but considering the constraints the writers were working with (to SMG or not to SMG?) they did a pretty good job. And Wes just continues to break my heart. . .
no subject
Date: 2004-05-13 12:38 am (UTC)hired stalkersupervision guy found her there.Yes, absolutely, the only thing this episode tells us about Buffy with any accuracy is that she's still in Rome. Otherwise, she was a projection, much like the unseen Immortal himself, of what was going on with the boys. So I really don't see the point of complaining this episode was about her.
Wesley: ditto.
I meant to say. . .
Date: 2004-05-13 12:37 am (UTC)TGIQ - Just for the Record....
Date: 2004-05-13 02:06 am (UTC)Count me firmly rooted into the "hate camp".
In my opinion, the episode just felt wrong on so many levels... its rather unfortunate placement within the season, the writers' forced and unconvincing attempt at farcical comedy, the mis-characterisation of about any character (well except for Wes, Illyria and the Burkles) and last but certainly not least Andrew going out with two stereotype *female* model beauties just two seconds after his little "moving on" speech.