Bits about not-really-my-shows

[selenak]

Hannibal: you know, I don't think I'll continue with this. Not because of the cannibalism. I can take cannibalism. But right now, the show reminds me why I've stopped reading certain types of dark fic altogether. I'm really not into emotional torture porn, stories in which one character is broken systematically over an extended time period. I mean, I'm all for the show not romantisizing its main psychopath and deliberately going against the "oh, but there's one person he's totally nice to! Isn't he a sweetie at the core!" cliché. But I'm still not into emotional torture porn any more than physical torture porn.

(And this week's physical victims were again either props or boo-hiss jerks.)

(Otoh Bryan Fuller gives his tabloid journalist far more humanity - without making her less of a ruthless tabloid reporter - and so far more dignity than Harris gave the male versions, so there is that.)


Speaking of torture: Game of Thrones: ended its third season, if my vague memories are anything to go by, about two thirds into Storm of Swords, the third novel. Practically, some thoughts as in previous seasons: the big shockers were duly delivered, ditto the ones that made everbody and their bannermen ship Jaime/Brienne, female nudity still outranks male nudity (though this season also had the first GoT scene where the female character being nude had nothing to do with sexual tiltillation) , show!Cersei, while still making many of the same mistakes as book!Cersei, is still a better character, and not just because of Lena Headey's performance (which is great) but also because the scripts give her at least two dysfunctional siblings scenes with Tyrion per season which aren't about them loathing each other. The breakout characters of the season were undoubtedly Margaery Tyrell (this was a great year for Natalie Dormer, between GoT and her guest stint in Elementary) and her grandmother (hello, Diana Rigg!). My show!interest in Margaery had stirred last season when she told Littlefinger she didn't want to be a queen but the queen, and this season has turned said vague interest to strong affection. It also helps she's so far the smartest of the current royals in a position to sit on the throne, and that her storyline, unlike Dany's, isn't burdened with a white saviour trope. (Otoh it is burdened with her intended, but, err, I've read the books.)

Yara/Asha was only in the finale but had a great scene. One reason why I keep watching despite not being really fannish about this saga is that it really has several interesting female characters, and the cast is good. Mind you, I'm curious what the fourth season will be about because I don't think there is enough of the third novel left to fill an entire season; they'll have to include fourth novel material, surely? But I could be wrong. It's been years, and I never reread those novels.

Comments

GoT spoilers abound

[likeadeuce]

It's definitely the dysfunctional soap opera of the Lannisters + the formidable Tyrell women (with Sansa trying to find a path while surrounded by them) that's keeping me engaged. I'm intrigued by quite a few elements of the finale - Jaime's return to King's Landing being moved forward to occur before certain events was the change I was most hoping for; and a lot of people have been complaining that the show was holding back re: certain elements of Arya's personality but I'm pretty sure the finale took care of that. Also, not only Cersei and Tyrion's relationship but Tyrion and Tywin's are much more nuanced and less one-sided than in the novels. And I was seal-clapping over the last shot of Yara; I'm rather hoping for a straight-up rescue attempt of Theon on her part, which is not exactly her motivation or role in the novels, but that's another pair of dysfunctional siblings I'd like to see more of.

PS -- If Cersei's smarter in the novels, I think Stannis may be dumber, as pretty much his main virtue in the books is taking Davos's advice at critical junctures; here, Melisandre convinces him to take the Red Wedding as a good omen when its actual falllout is 1) consolidating Lannister power 2) putting completely unscrupulous homicidal maniacs in charge of the North; not really sure those are good things for you, Stan...

Re: GoT spoilers abound

[selenak]

I don't think Cersei is smarter in the novels - like I said, she makes the same type of mistakes in either canon, but she's also given an emotional life in the show that's... less designed to make her look one dimensionally bad? Going all the way back to s1 when the show gave her the scene with Cat where the impression was that yes, Cersei was worried what Bran might say once he woke up, but also what she said about her first child was true. And the scene with Robert about their marriage. And later her scenes with Tyrion. None of them are in the novels.

Re: Stannis, I admit I skipped his chapters out of sheer boredom when reading, so I honestly wouldn't know.

Re: Arya, budding sociopath due to extreme trauma: yep, I think the tv show got that across now.

Jaime coming back earlier: yes, that makes me wonder whether he'll be present (as in, physically present) when that one thing or the other thing occurs.

Re: GoT spoilers abound

[likeadeuce]

Arrgh, I meant to say, "Cersei's smarter THAN in the novels," (ie, smarter on the show; Stannis is way dumber on the show) though you're right that the difference isn't so much about intelligence as context of her actions and motivations.

Re: Jaime, aside from him being present for certain events, I want to see him thrown into the current King's Landing status quo, possibly Cersei making a last ditch effort to turn Joffrey around by trying to get Jaime to actually be a dad to him.

Re: GoT spoilers abound

[selenak]

I haven't read the fifth book yet, but from what I vaguely recall from the first four, Jaime never makes any efforts to connect to the kids even as an uncle, let alone in a parental function. Which is why I always thought it is unfair that solely Cersei gets blamed for how Joffrey turned out. She's co-responsible, yes, but so are Robert - who was Joffrey's father emotionally if not in actual fact - and Jaime. (And of course Joffrey himself. Marcella and Tommen seem to be great, so it's not like getting raised by Cersei, ignored by both the nominal and the bio dad and having the Lannister genes automatically makes you a psychopath.)

If the show puts the enstragement between Cersei and Jaime not solely due to her shallowness (he's lost a hand) and his greater depth (moral turnaround due to Brienne) but also due to Jaime not coming through for a last ditch effort to salvage Joffrey, I would love that alteration, and it would fit with show!Cersei, absolutely. (And would keep them more shade of grey than male good twin, bad female twin.)

Re: GoT spoilers abound

[likeadeuce]

Yes to all that. Would also dig some more scenes b/t Jaime and Tywin and/or Tyrion. And Brienne being in the mix at King's Landing could also be interesting.

Re: GoT spoilers abound

[selenak]

Though if Brienne is here this early in the plot, what about her quest for Sansa? (And Arya, but she's about to find out Arya is not here.) I mean, yes, presumably in the show she will hear at King's Landing about the Red Wedding and that Cat and Robb are dead, but there has to be an in-show explanation why she doesn't at least try to help Sansa escape. Unless of course the show speeds up the thing with Sansa's, err, place of residence and the season 4 opener will tell us after that silent exchange of looks with Tyrion she left on her own?

Jaime's and Tywin's scene from s1 was awesome (also an addition the show made), whereas I thought it was one of the few wrong choices re: the Lannisters the show made to give Jaime and Tyrion only that one scene in the pilot because if you watch the show without any book knowledge, I don't think you get the impression that Tyrion and Jaime actually love each other (in a non-dysfunctional way), making their relationship before Jaime gets captured arguably the only Lannister-Lannister combination that's not fucked up. So if they have the chance for scenes before the thing happens, it might remedy that.

Re: GoT spoilers abound

[likeadeuce]

Yeah, not sure how they'll handle Brienne. Possibly she'll be locked up or at least under house arrest so that she's still available for interaction but doesn't get to affect things much until the plot is ready for her to. But more Lannister interaction all around is good, and presumably that's WHY the show brought him back when they did.

[astridv]

Hannibal has been all over my flist and reading circles lately, and never has a show sounded so unappealing to me, ever.

[selenak]

All the enthusiasm was what made me watch as well, and yes, not for me, I'm afraid. And I can put up with quite a lot if the show in question just bothers to also give me emotional angles to keep me hooked.

[skywaterblue]

Thirded. Being an American I occasionally stumble over it and... flip quickly away.

[saturnofthemoon]

I'm kind of with you on the Hannibal front. I loved the show until they revealed Hannibal had been manipulating Will on the matter of his medical condition. (Extreme psychological manipulation is a major squick of mine.) Will's current breakdown is triggering flashbacks to A Streetcar Named Desire, which is the most disturbing movie I've ever seen.

[selenak]

Oh, the play is even more disturbing, because in the play, Stella doesn't want to believe her sister (which is implied to have been the final thing to push over Blanche to madness) and stays with Stanley.

True story: Louis B. Mayer to his daughter, Irene Selznick, who produced A Streetcar Named Desire on Broadway, after the premiere: "Thank God that awful woman is gone and won't bother that nice young couple anymore!"

[saturnofthemoon]

Yeah, I've heard that Stella stays with Stanley in the play, which is why I will never read or watch it.

True story: Louis B. Mayer to his daughter, Irene Selznick, who produced A Streetcar Named Desire on Broadway, after the premiere: "Thank God that awful woman is gone and won't bother that nice young couple anymore!"

Now that is truly disturbing.

[selenak]

The other change the film made was for censorship reasons and similar to the later Tennessee Williams film of note, Cat on the hot tin roof: in the play, it's explicit that Blanche's husband whom she married when she was very young was gay, that she reacted badly when she found out and subsequently blamed herself when he killed himself. In films at that time, you weren't allowed to talk about homosexuality directly, so Vivien Leigh has to use a lot of euphemisms a modern audience might not understand when Blanche talks about her marriage to Mitch.

Also true story: Irene Selznick suggested to Tennessee Williams an alternative to the rape scene; her idea was for Blanche to start responding to Stanley only for him to stop and laugh at her, humiliating her and driving her insane that way. Williams said no, Blanche does not want to have sex with Stanley. Cue Elia Kazan (director of both film and original stage production) musing in his memoirs that the gay T. Williams probably identified with his neurotic heroines and didn't want to admit he was attracted to bad boys.

And now for a German theatre production story: in the 60s, we didn't many, if any, black actors (that's changed now). Somehow, Hans Neuenfels when staging A Streetcar Named Desire still managed to cast practically the only one available as Stanley Kowalski. Cue Williams' representatives, when they got wind of it, writing polite but firm protest letters pointing out that a story set in New Orleans with a rape as a central plot element gets a completely different slant if it's a black man raping a white woman, so no. Please change that. The end result being that the actor played Stanley in white face, with lots of make up on him for the entire production. It's so completely head desk worthy that I suspected my professor to have made it up when he told us back when I studied drama, but no, he didn't.

[shobogan]

I really need to start watching this show. I have so many feelings about Sansa and Arya and Danaerys and Cersei and Margaery and Brienne and Catelyn and I've never even seen them in action.

I have read some excerpts of the books, though, and I can't say I find the prose particularly, um, good.