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selenakI just finished a few hundred Christmas letters, GOOD GRIEF. But well: it’s the season. Anyway, that’s why today’s meta post might not be as long as the subject deserves. Also because I wrote about Snow and Regina in fictional form, here, between seasons, and if I have one complaint about the first half of s3 which I otherwise enjoyed very much is that despite the set up the writers almost perversely found a way to avoid letting the two have scenes together (without other people, that is, or at least scenes that featured them having a conversation), after the opening episode. Which means there is not much new material to analyse. But still: it’s one of the most interesting twists the show did on a fairy tale trope, this relationship, and if canon this last half season has frustrated me in this regard, it delivered a lot of goodness before, and I still am disappointed fandom never picked up on it.
Probably because if fanfic thinks of Snow White in relation to Regina at all, it’s in two capacities: either as a potential obstacle to a Regina/Emma romance, or as The One Whose Fault Everything In Regina’s Life Truly Is. Which is a shame, and ignores most of canon, but hey, that’s not new for any fandom. Seriously, though: there is so much rich material there because these versions of Snow White and her stepmother in many ways help creating each other. And one should never forget that it starts with love, not hate. (A first in Snow White retellings.) Cora may have engineered the opportunity for Regina to rescue the child Snow White, but neither Regina nor Snow knew that, and Regina responded to the sight of a child in danger on instinct, without second thoughts. If Snow through all the years, various assassination attempts, a dead father, Regina behaving like a tyrant to the population in general and lots of mindmessing later still remembers this – and hopes that Regina is redeemable because of it (which she does as late as Regina’s almost execution) -, it’s not just because Regina saved her life but because Regina saved a life, full stop, and did it in an active fashion. Snow venerated her mother, but a) the way Eva was good (as a queen) and the way everyone was praising her seemed to set an incredibly high standard to reach for a child. Whereas young Regina’s heroics were something a child could imagine to do as well. Now granted, we’ve seen Eva (the reformed adult version of her, not the young girl whom Cora encountered) only in one episode, but it’s still worth noting that the lesson she teaches her daughter there is one of restraint – what NOT to be (arrogant and cruel to people in your social power). An important one, to be sure (especially bearing the later revealed backstory in mind), but still one in not acting (a certain way). (And then of course comes the first cruel character test Snow experiences, when Cora-in-disguise offers her the chance to save her mother at the expense of another life. Snow passes it on that occasion, but feels guilty for not saving her mother for years to come. And note: again, it’s about NOT acting.) Whereas the first thing the child Snow White learns from Regina is something active – do something, when you see someone in danger, act. If you’re afraid of that horse, get right back on it. Snow, years later, calls Regina her heroine for this (which stuns Regina, but I’ll get to that in a moment), and she means it. What I’m trying to get at here: it’s simplifying things somewhat (not giving into cruelty is an heroic action in itself, and sometimes far more difficult than the opposite), but you could say Eva formed the Mary Margaret part of her daughter, whereas Regina formed the survivor who lived through years as an outlaw.
It was the Evil Queen, though, who formed the Snow White who’d carry out a successful campaign for regaining a kingdom.
(Because nothing is ever simple, I feel compelled to add: young Regina was also the one who gave the child Snow White the idea of True Love as the only love possible (when explaining about herself and Daniel after Snow saw them kissing), whereas married Eva strikes me as more of the common sense type.)
Now Regina takes against Snow White partly because it’s easier to blame her for Daniel’s death and Regina being trapped in an unwanted marriage than blame Regina’s own mother, but partly, I’d argue, because the way they instinctively related to each other was mutual, and Regina’s sense of betrayal was thus doubly amplified. Snow is the first child Regina takes to and bonds with, whose own age at that point isn’t specified because Lana Parilla even with long hair doesn’t look like a teenager, but that’s probably what she’s supposed to be), but after finding out that Snow told Cora about her escape plan, Regina’s affection becomes hatred – though as of season 2’s The Evil Queen flashbacks, we have canon to argue that there was still buried affection underneath. Otherwise Regina would not have responded as she did to the unlooked for chance to talk with Snow in disguise, let alone to hear Snow praise her and express her belief in Regina. (The whole scenario, btw, is the reverse from the fairy tale trope where the Evil Queen visits Snow White in disguise in order to poison her. Here, she is in disguise for other reasons, gets rescued by Snow White and almost seduced back to the Light Side before Regina’s own deeds in the form of a village massacre come irrevocably back to crush that chance.
Regina’s way of relating to children in an intense fashion – Snow, Gretel, Owen and finally Henry – is partly, I would argue, because while she’s the nominal adult in each of these relationships, she is because of her own upbringing in many ways emotionally a warped child herself. It’s not until the death of her own mother that Regina finally starts to grow up (and continues to do so in Neverland). The switching of roles between child and adult is noticeable in many of the scenes she has with a grown up Snow White. Or scenes she has when Snow isn’t even physically present but which involve her; in the season 1 episode which gives us Graham’s backstory as the Huntsman, it’s teenage Snow White who when faced with her death acts calm and collectedly, and adult Regina who throws a temper tantrum when faced with Snow’s “I love you and forgive you for killing me because I know why you want to, be a good queen” farewell letter. I already mentioned Regina’s reaction in The Evil Queen when hearing Snow describe her as Snow’s heroine; when they come across the villagers who died on Regina’s orders a short time later and Snow is horrified, Regina’s “but you said I could come back!” protest is again that of a child who can’t grasp that the rest of the world exists on an equal level. Her reaction when she meets the amnesiac Mary Margaret, the version of Snow White she herself created as a punishment and humiliation, goes quickly from gloating to frustration because Mary Margaret, as opposed to Snow, won't fight back and just shies away fromm her. (Seriously, Regina's "but why aren't you arguing with me?!?" in Welcome To Storybrooke all but lacks the stomping foot.) Finally, two of the darkest scenes between them, Snow giving Cora’s heart to Regina and manipulating her into killing her mother, are only possible because of not only Regina’s emotional childlike nature but also Snow’s awareness of it (and simultaneous awareness of Regina’s own view of Snow). The reverse scene – Snow offering her heart to Regina in atonement two episodes later – is one of the few times a villain declaring death is too good for their opponent actually works because Regina’s need to torment Snow in the way she could never torment Cora, her mother, has always been greater than her need for Snow’s death, and she just found a new way to do so.
Snow’s own capacity for darkness gets its few outings in their relationship as well. In the s1 episode that presents a Snow White without the capacity to love, she promptly decides to kill Regina. (Note, though: kill. Snow as a supervillain presumably would not be the type to gloat for a long time before actually doing something.) When she traps Regina in the flashback that shows Regina’s military defeat, it is by playing on Regina’s desire to capture and hurt her, to chase after her, which, Snow knows, will always supersede common sense and strategic advantage. And while there wasn’t a lot of time to decide quite how to get Cora’s heart back into Cora once Snow had actually used the candle Cora had given her a long time ago for her own mother, I still think Snow used Regina for it not only out of pragmatic need but also because a part of her wanted payback, and in this specific form. After all, one reason why Snow understood Regina’s mixed feelings about Cora might very well be because of her own mixed feelings about Regina.
Early s3 gives us one flashback episode showing Snow, post glass coffin (and thus also after heaving eaten the poisoned apple, not, as in the fairy tale, unknowingly, but deliberately when Regina offered it after finally revealing the truth about Daniel’s death), making the transition from outlaw to rebel deciding to become Queen herself. Despite my frustration with the paucity of Snow and Regina scenes this season, I do appreciate this happens as a direct result of Regina offering her the chance to leave with Charming and the dwarves to save exile. Because, as I said: it’s the Evil Queen who makes Snow White into a Queen. In her “I love you” letter Snow wrote when facing death-by-Huntsman, she also expressed the hope Regina would be a good Queen once free of the burdens of the past. Regina was anything but. Snow is still seriously tempted to take that offer, a few years later, but ultimately (and after a confidence booster) doesn’t, and this is important, because being a good ruler means putting your people’s happiness before your own. If something qualifies Snow as a heroine (and as a potential Queen), it’s not that she’s nifty with the bow and arrow but that she’s, most times, capable of doing this. The logical consequence of seeing Regina is not capable of ruling justly isn’t just to get away, to live on your own (which you can do, but most other people in the realm can’t); it’s doing something about this and make sure she won’t rule much longer. Do not use power for cruelty: do not stand by, DO something. These are the lessons Snow White learned – from both her mothers.
Probably because if fanfic thinks of Snow White in relation to Regina at all, it’s in two capacities: either as a potential obstacle to a Regina/Emma romance, or as The One Whose Fault Everything In Regina’s Life Truly Is. Which is a shame, and ignores most of canon, but hey, that’s not new for any fandom. Seriously, though: there is so much rich material there because these versions of Snow White and her stepmother in many ways help creating each other. And one should never forget that it starts with love, not hate. (A first in Snow White retellings.) Cora may have engineered the opportunity for Regina to rescue the child Snow White, but neither Regina nor Snow knew that, and Regina responded to the sight of a child in danger on instinct, without second thoughts. If Snow through all the years, various assassination attempts, a dead father, Regina behaving like a tyrant to the population in general and lots of mindmessing later still remembers this – and hopes that Regina is redeemable because of it (which she does as late as Regina’s almost execution) -, it’s not just because Regina saved her life but because Regina saved a life, full stop, and did it in an active fashion. Snow venerated her mother, but a) the way Eva was good (as a queen) and the way everyone was praising her seemed to set an incredibly high standard to reach for a child. Whereas young Regina’s heroics were something a child could imagine to do as well. Now granted, we’ve seen Eva (the reformed adult version of her, not the young girl whom Cora encountered) only in one episode, but it’s still worth noting that the lesson she teaches her daughter there is one of restraint – what NOT to be (arrogant and cruel to people in your social power). An important one, to be sure (especially bearing the later revealed backstory in mind), but still one in not acting (a certain way). (And then of course comes the first cruel character test Snow experiences, when Cora-in-disguise offers her the chance to save her mother at the expense of another life. Snow passes it on that occasion, but feels guilty for not saving her mother for years to come. And note: again, it’s about NOT acting.) Whereas the first thing the child Snow White learns from Regina is something active – do something, when you see someone in danger, act. If you’re afraid of that horse, get right back on it. Snow, years later, calls Regina her heroine for this (which stuns Regina, but I’ll get to that in a moment), and she means it. What I’m trying to get at here: it’s simplifying things somewhat (not giving into cruelty is an heroic action in itself, and sometimes far more difficult than the opposite), but you could say Eva formed the Mary Margaret part of her daughter, whereas Regina formed the survivor who lived through years as an outlaw.
It was the Evil Queen, though, who formed the Snow White who’d carry out a successful campaign for regaining a kingdom.
(Because nothing is ever simple, I feel compelled to add: young Regina was also the one who gave the child Snow White the idea of True Love as the only love possible (when explaining about herself and Daniel after Snow saw them kissing), whereas married Eva strikes me as more of the common sense type.)
Now Regina takes against Snow White partly because it’s easier to blame her for Daniel’s death and Regina being trapped in an unwanted marriage than blame Regina’s own mother, but partly, I’d argue, because the way they instinctively related to each other was mutual, and Regina’s sense of betrayal was thus doubly amplified. Snow is the first child Regina takes to and bonds with, whose own age at that point isn’t specified because Lana Parilla even with long hair doesn’t look like a teenager, but that’s probably what she’s supposed to be), but after finding out that Snow told Cora about her escape plan, Regina’s affection becomes hatred – though as of season 2’s The Evil Queen flashbacks, we have canon to argue that there was still buried affection underneath. Otherwise Regina would not have responded as she did to the unlooked for chance to talk with Snow in disguise, let alone to hear Snow praise her and express her belief in Regina. (The whole scenario, btw, is the reverse from the fairy tale trope where the Evil Queen visits Snow White in disguise in order to poison her. Here, she is in disguise for other reasons, gets rescued by Snow White and almost seduced back to the Light Side before Regina’s own deeds in the form of a village massacre come irrevocably back to crush that chance.
Regina’s way of relating to children in an intense fashion – Snow, Gretel, Owen and finally Henry – is partly, I would argue, because while she’s the nominal adult in each of these relationships, she is because of her own upbringing in many ways emotionally a warped child herself. It’s not until the death of her own mother that Regina finally starts to grow up (and continues to do so in Neverland). The switching of roles between child and adult is noticeable in many of the scenes she has with a grown up Snow White. Or scenes she has when Snow isn’t even physically present but which involve her; in the season 1 episode which gives us Graham’s backstory as the Huntsman, it’s teenage Snow White who when faced with her death acts calm and collectedly, and adult Regina who throws a temper tantrum when faced with Snow’s “I love you and forgive you for killing me because I know why you want to, be a good queen” farewell letter. I already mentioned Regina’s reaction in The Evil Queen when hearing Snow describe her as Snow’s heroine; when they come across the villagers who died on Regina’s orders a short time later and Snow is horrified, Regina’s “but you said I could come back!” protest is again that of a child who can’t grasp that the rest of the world exists on an equal level. Her reaction when she meets the amnesiac Mary Margaret, the version of Snow White she herself created as a punishment and humiliation, goes quickly from gloating to frustration because Mary Margaret, as opposed to Snow, won't fight back and just shies away fromm her. (Seriously, Regina's "but why aren't you arguing with me?!?" in Welcome To Storybrooke all but lacks the stomping foot.) Finally, two of the darkest scenes between them, Snow giving Cora’s heart to Regina and manipulating her into killing her mother, are only possible because of not only Regina’s emotional childlike nature but also Snow’s awareness of it (and simultaneous awareness of Regina’s own view of Snow). The reverse scene – Snow offering her heart to Regina in atonement two episodes later – is one of the few times a villain declaring death is too good for their opponent actually works because Regina’s need to torment Snow in the way she could never torment Cora, her mother, has always been greater than her need for Snow’s death, and she just found a new way to do so.
Snow’s own capacity for darkness gets its few outings in their relationship as well. In the s1 episode that presents a Snow White without the capacity to love, she promptly decides to kill Regina. (Note, though: kill. Snow as a supervillain presumably would not be the type to gloat for a long time before actually doing something.) When she traps Regina in the flashback that shows Regina’s military defeat, it is by playing on Regina’s desire to capture and hurt her, to chase after her, which, Snow knows, will always supersede common sense and strategic advantage. And while there wasn’t a lot of time to decide quite how to get Cora’s heart back into Cora once Snow had actually used the candle Cora had given her a long time ago for her own mother, I still think Snow used Regina for it not only out of pragmatic need but also because a part of her wanted payback, and in this specific form. After all, one reason why Snow understood Regina’s mixed feelings about Cora might very well be because of her own mixed feelings about Regina.
Early s3 gives us one flashback episode showing Snow, post glass coffin (and thus also after heaving eaten the poisoned apple, not, as in the fairy tale, unknowingly, but deliberately when Regina offered it after finally revealing the truth about Daniel’s death), making the transition from outlaw to rebel deciding to become Queen herself. Despite my frustration with the paucity of Snow and Regina scenes this season, I do appreciate this happens as a direct result of Regina offering her the chance to leave with Charming and the dwarves to save exile. Because, as I said: it’s the Evil Queen who makes Snow White into a Queen. In her “I love you” letter Snow wrote when facing death-by-Huntsman, she also expressed the hope Regina would be a good Queen once free of the burdens of the past. Regina was anything but. Snow is still seriously tempted to take that offer, a few years later, but ultimately (and after a confidence booster) doesn’t, and this is important, because being a good ruler means putting your people’s happiness before your own. If something qualifies Snow as a heroine (and as a potential Queen), it’s not that she’s nifty with the bow and arrow but that she’s, most times, capable of doing this. The logical consequence of seeing Regina is not capable of ruling justly isn’t just to get away, to live on your own (which you can do, but most other people in the realm can’t); it’s doing something about this and make sure she won’t rule much longer. Do not use power for cruelty: do not stand by, DO something. These are the lessons Snow White learned – from both her mothers.
no subject
Date: 2013-12-09 07:26 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-12-09 05:34 pm (UTC)I'd say yes and no, in that even if Snow never existed, Cora would still have wanted her daughter to be Queen, and would have put that ahead of anything Regina herself wanted. But I do wonder what Cora would have done if Snow had actually used that candle to save her mother. Because then Leopold wouldn't have been free for Regina to marry. I suppose Cora would have gotten vengeful satisfaction out of having corrupted Eva's daughter (and would undoubtedly have told her as much), but still, putting Regina on the throne was the bigger goal.
After the initial stage is more like a troubled sibling relationship than a mother-daughter one in the classic sense; when I wrote my "Five Things" for Cora, I had her marry Leopold herself in one of them, and thus Regina and Snow did end up as sisters. It's interesting that Snow, as opposed to Leopold who the few times we see him at all keeps bringing up his dead wife, never seems to have compared her mother and Regina, nor did she see loving both as mutually exclusive, and perhaps that was because when they met, she related to Regina more like to a newfound older sister whom she thought was wonderful. But at the same time: Regina did raise her from child to adolescent, no matter how inwardly seethingly. And of course Snow by now has known Regina far longer than she ever knew her mother.
(BTW, I loved that the latest episode gave me several neat moments re: the two of them.)
no subject
Date: 2013-12-09 06:36 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-12-09 08:14 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-12-09 05:21 pm (UTC)