So I fell for this fandom... and that one... and also... (Or: Meta Thoughts)

[selenak]

Anyone interested in my theatrical_muse activities and what Londo and the gang are up to there can look up the newest summary here.

Meanwhile, I found this very amusing list of The Seven Deadly Fanons. Doesn't matter which fandom you're in, you'll recognize them immediately. So true.

On the matter of fandoms. What makes one fall for one?



There are fans, including some friends of mine (waves at hmpf) who can fall for one or two things in a fandom, but not for the text itself. (Text standing here not just for book but also for movie or tv show.) In hmpf's case, as she explained in a very entertaining essay, she fell for Methos despite somewhat disliking Highlander, and for Sirius Black despite not being that enthralled with Harry Potter. It's not exactly a rare phenomenon; I've heard it from quite a lot of fans, in many fandoms. "I like X, but the whole Y thing leaves me cold, and the fanfic concentrating on X is better than the book/show/movie anyway."

Being in a meta kind of mood, I started wondering why it never happened to me. Oh, of course I have my favourites in the respective fandoms I'm interested in. But try as I might, I can't think of a case where I fell for just one character, or just one pairing, while being left cold by the rest. I've come to the conclusion that I tend to fall for worlds.

In the Jossverse, I'm more likely to read a story concentrating on, say, Buffy and Dawn, or Darla, or Connor, than I am to read something concentrating on Gunn or Willow. But I like the entire set-up, the Jossian twist on vampires and demons and the humans who snark at them, I like the ensemble (including Gunn and Willow). As for Highlander, sure, I love Methos, but I also love Amanda and Duncan and Joe and Fitz and the entire concept of Immortals. Babylon 5 gave me my favourite fictional character of them all (no cookies if you don't know by now whom I'm talking about), and a couple of others I adore, but that doesn't mean they are the only reasons why I fell for that show and remained fallen. The unrivalled interweaving five-year-arcs, the sci-fi mixed with so much mythic resonance - gah. It's similar with DS9 and Farscape, both of which do the arc-thing as well, though not to the same extent; DS9, of course, build on an already existing world (the Star Trek one), but gave it a unique spin, and Farscape came up with an anarchic wild ride of its own. Moving over to the comics graphic novels side of the force, Sandman made me a Neil Gaiman fan for life, and not just for Dream, or Delirium, or Hob Gadling, or Lyta Hall - because of all of them, and the others, and that marvellously rich, layered world.

But what is it what makes me fall for one particular fictional world? Why, for example, Harry Potter, but not, say, X-Files even in their heyday? (I liked the early X-Files years, and watched a lot of episodes, but never managed to catch an entire season, and wasn't fannish enough to look for recordings. Later on, of course, there was even less on an incentive to try, but as I had never really been inside the fandom, I still don't feel bitter towards Carter & Co.) Why movieverse X-Men but not movieverse Spiderman? (I enjoyed the later, but whereas the X-Men movies sent me hunting for fanfic immediately, I'm content to await the next Spiderman movie. The Amazing Spiderman comics I've read were ordered mostly for JMS' sake, and because sabine101 had recommended them, not because the bug (bad pun, sorry, Peter) had bitten. If JMS stops writing them, I'll stop reading them. Otoh, I am trying to catch up with various comicverse X-Men incarnations because I am fascinated with that world.

I think it's history, both history in the literal sense and character-related history that does it for me, mostly. What set DS9 so apart from the other Trek incarnations was made possible through its location - a station, instead of a ship. The history of Bajor and Cardassia, and later the Dominion, could be made crucial to the show, and to the relationships between characters in a way that wouldn't have been possible if they had lived on a space ship. Take Worf on TNG: he's probably the TNG character whose background matters most to him, and the writers used him to explore the Klingons which had up to that point been rather one dimensional enemies in TOS… but about four or five episodes in seven years aside, Klingon politics weren't important for the overall story. Bajoran and Cardassian politics, otoh, couldn't have been more important for the overall show on DS9.

Of course, individual preferences still influence the way I see things. On Babylon 5, I've certainly rewatched episodes concentrating on the Narn/Centauri conflict, and on Londo and G'Kar (and Vir), more often than I rewatched episodes concentrating on the Earth/Minbari backstory, or the Minbari present day conflicts, even though the Human/Minbari and Narn/Centauri storylines are of equal importance to the overall show. However, I think that if Babylon 5 had just been the Londo and G'Kar show, I still would have loved it, but would have admired it less. I'd miss those Minbari and their rituals, and the mystery around Sinclair evolving into the stunning revelation at the end of War Without End, and Neroon first taking Delenn's place in the Grey Council and then, two years later, taking her place in a very different sense. I'd miss the story of Earth going from a democracy to a fascistic regime, and how the human characters react to this. And naturally, I'd miss Bester.*g*

The Sandman saga moves back and forth and throughout history, and couldn't be told in another way, and then you have the relationship history (and I'm not talking about Dream's capacity for romances ending badly here): the Endless, and their dysfunctional family relationship, Dream and his son Orpheus, Dream and Hob Gadling, Dream and Shakespeare, Lyta Hall and her son Daniel, and so many "histories" more make up the overall story. The reason why my X-Men movieverse focus is on Xavier and Magneto (as opposed to, say, Wolverine and/or Rogue) isn't just because I melt when I hear Patrick Stewart and Ian McKellen speak (though, actually, you know…), but because of all the backstory indicated between them, and through them. I don't mean just the slash aspect. If movie 3 for some mysterious reason would let Charles reminisce out loud that he never had sex with another human being his entire life, thus making it movieverse canon, it wouldn't make the relationship(s) less interesting to me - not the one between Charles and Erik as old friends turned enemies through the different choices they made, and how these choices came to be in a world reacting to mutants, and mutants reacting to the world. Nor the backstory between them and those oldest students which must have been educated (for a while) by both of them, Jean, Scott, and Jason Stryker. (And of course, it wouldn't lessen interest in the relationship between Mystique and Magneto, and what her take on all that backstory must be.)

(Actually, now that I think of it, this might be why Jean and Scott with far less screentime or development than Wolverine and Rogue are nonetheless more interesting to me. They have history.)

Plus, again, the idea of mutants and the reactions of various societies to them interests me. (One reason why, even aside from my Gaiman admiration, I dug 1602 so much.) One of the more popular critical observations on JKR is that she's a supposedly better world builder than writer. (Though I think that's arguable. Stylistically, she's not as good as, say, Pullman or C.S.Lewis, but writing works on many different levels, and she has the Stephen King gift of drawing you into story and characters.) What makes the Potterverse more interesting to me than the world of Artemis Fowl is its intricacy, the increasing darkness in the way the wizard world is presented… and that history. The backstory constantly affecting the present day interaction of the characters, be it the Marauders versus Snape conflict, Tom Riddle as Harry's parallel and contrast, Neville and his parents lost to insanity, even whatever happened between Petunia and Lily.

To sum it up: One character, or two with a backstory can never be enough. It has to be an ensemble.

(Of course, that still doesn't explain why Stargate left me cold, but hey. No meta is perfect.)

Comments

Knock, knock!

[natoth.livejournal.com]

I simply want to warn, that right now I sit for the next terrible post in which am going to tell what happened with Mollari during his stay in the technomages' captivity.
If you know something about it, I advise to state me your wishes.
;-)))
it would be desirable that all was harmonious...
;-))

Re: Knock, knock!

[selenak.livejournal.com]

The original plan of the rogue technomages was to stage something like Sheridan's return from Z'ha'dum with Londo. They would have been playing the part of Lorien, the wise saviours and advisors, which would have provided them with an alibi to hang around the station. Londo in turn was supposed to provide them with a fleet and a homebase. Having found a possibility to access the magic of various universes, they wanted to go about conquering, but they needed front men, and figured that due to his history with the Shadows, Londo would agree.

When he didn't, they tried to persuade him via some psychological torture and also with some of that accessed magic, including the Imperius curse from the Harry Potter novels, but due to not having yet a true handle on that particular type of magic, they didn't completely succeed, and he kept refusing. They did, however, manage to heighten his paranoia to the nth degree and let an enduring order never to try and get help from the other (i.e. the normal, good) technomages. However, since they weren't really getting anywhere and since Vir had started to find about about them, the original plan was worthless anyway, and they had decided to auction Londo off to his enemies and get another front man when he was rescued, suddenly finding himself in his quarters on B5.

Re: Knock, knock!

[natoth.livejournal.com]

I see... The idea begins to be made out...:-)))
Still a couple of questions: as far as I have understood, there was three mages, isn't it?
Oh... It seems, I know, that happened with Mollari...

Re: Knock, knock!

[selenak.livejournal.com]

There were four, but one has been captured while trying to conduct the auction on B5. (While Londo was still in the DS9 universe.)

[artaxastra.livejournal.com]

I think for me it's not just history, it's context. Having a lot of fascinating detail in the edges of the world, either explicit or implicit.

For example, in Classic Star Wars, there are all these objects in the edge of the frame. Watch the scene where Obi Wan gives Luke his father's lightsaber. There's stuff on the walls, stuff in the trunk, a wealth of regret and expression on Obi Wan's face. Even before we know what the backstory is, we know there is backstory. And that this world is rich -- rich in possibilities for the imagination. What is that thing on the wall? Where did Obi Wan get it? What does it do?

Brian Daley, given Han's backstory to work with, was the original creator of many of the things that turned up in the Prequel trilogy, including the droid army. Because he took those suggestions at the edge of the frame, and like a good fanfic writer, turned them into stories. Why does Han have red piping on the outside of his pants seams? Well, it's a long story....

Ditto context in X Men movieverse. The set dressing is meticulous, and gives you a wealth of info to work with. For example, in X1 we see that Charles has a tan cadillac with New York handicapped plates. So Charles drives. Where does he go? To get groceries? Not likely. On secret missions? To pick up pizza? Or does he have the car more as a symbol of independence than because he actually drives himself very much? And given that he has the car, why when he goes to head off Erik kidnapping Rogue, does Jean drive him instead in a different car? Because he wants Jean there? Because she feels better with her driving? Because he wants to be free to concentrate? All kinds of questions raised for the fanfic writer to answer.

The shows that never catch on to me, even though at first glance they would seem very appealing, are the ones with no context. With nothing used, nothing old. That look as though you could walk out of the room and into an empty hall. That don't seem like real places. The Millennium Falcon is a real place. You may never see the inside of Han's cabin, but you have a pretty good idea what it looks like. You never see where Mystique sleeps, but you can imagine it.

One of the problems with Next Generation (much as I love it) is that often it looked like these people were living in a hotel for seven years. Surely in seven years Worf would get rid of that carpet! Why do Deanna and Beverly look like they share the same room on opposite shifts? Well, to save money on the set dressing, of course. But it makes it less a real place.

Which is not a problem on DS9, at least not nearly as much. And seems to be a problem they're solving on Enterprise as well.

Give me context! And I second "give me history!"

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Good point about context, and that, btw, makes the Firefly'verse very real, too - Serenity looks like a very lived-in vessel, and each of the crew cabins we see, as well as the mess and the cockpit, has a distinct look, and you can tell which crew member has influenced what.

DS9: the very station, by virtue of being Cardassian in design, not Federation, already offered context.

On B5, the quarters of the various ambassadors were all saying so much about their people, culture and invidual tastes as well...

[penknife.livejournal.com]

"The Seven Deadly Fanons" is fun, and I found myself trying to figure out the common ones in X-Men movieverse.

1. The Wimp: Rogue and Charles Xavier are the most frequent victims. Weepy!helpless!Rogue is out of character, at least by the timeframe of X2. Weepy!helpless!Charles is just appalling.

2. The Cretin: Logan and/or Scott, depending on which one of them the author doesn't like.

3. The Villain: Assuming we're not counting the actual villains, Scott, Jean, and Charles get the worst of this treatment. Presumably this is because they're the official good guys. (Actually, I find Xavier-as-villain stories interesting sometimes. They're certainly more fun to read than Bitchy!Jean or Stalker!Scott.)

4. The Dirty Angel: Pyro, usually. Some people try to cast Magneto in this role, but his basic lack of remorse for anything he's done is a stumbling block. (And simply portraying him as doing what he believes to be right isn't a fanon mischaracterization; it's pretty much canon that Magneto's trying to save the world, in his own screwed-up way.)

5. The Saint: Hmm. Rogue sometimes gets this treatment, but I'm not sure there's an XMM equivalent of the Daniel-Blair-Julian-Remus type. Thoughts?

6. The Slut: Mystique. Pyro. Rogue, as little sense as that makes. Remy LeBeau, almost inevitably, if he's been transplanted into movieverse.

7. The Lovebirds: Anybody, but particularly alarming are "Charles and Erik settle down in domestic bliss post-X2, with no one objecting" and "Logan and anybody settle down in domestic bliss, and Logan immediately begins to behave as though aliens have stolen his brain." Assuming aliens have not in fact stolen Logan's brain.

Agree? Disagree? Have I forgotten anything obvious?

[ffutures.livejournal.com]

Buffyverse:

1. The Wimp: Tara, Xander
2. The Cretin: Xander, Buffy
3. The Villain: Buffy, Kennedy
4. The Dirty Angel: Willow, sometimes Drusilla
5. The Saint: Tara, Willow (once Tara is dead), Oz, Xander
6. The Slut: Oz, Giles, Faith
7. The Lovebirds: Oz / Giles, Xander / Faith, Anya / almost anyone apart from Xander.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Ah, but Spike is also a strong candidate for The Wimp (if this is a season 5 - 7 story), The Saint, or, if it's a pre-show up to season 4 story, The Dirty Angel.

Other Dirty Angels: Ethan, Lindsey, Lilah.

Slut candidates would include both Angel and Spike as well, plus the mysteriously popular Devon, surely the Boba Fett of the Buffyverse. Oh, and Cordy as far as femmeslash is concerned.

[londonkds.livejournal.com]

Riley seems to end up as "Cretin" or "Villain" a lot of the time in het fics.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

6. The Slut: Mystique. Pyro. Rogue, as little sense as that makes.

You know, considering that in Babylon 5 fanfiction, the one character paired most often with a variety of other characters is the one certified (as in on screen canon text) virgin of the show, one Marcus Cole, who explicitly states he wants to wait till the woman of his dreams is ready for him, which she never is (though she says after his death "I should have at least boffed him"), this doesn't surprise me in the least. Otherwise, I agree.

Let's consider Star Wars (haven't read enough OT fanfic, so will have to do prequels):

1. The Wimp.
Obi Wan. Especially in stories set during the TPM time frame, but also in AU slave scenarios, I understand.

2. The Cretin.
Qui-Gon. Mysteriously mutated to cold-blooded bastard constantly being cruel to Obi.

3. The Villain.
Anakin in any Saint!Obi story, and naturally in any Obidala pairing, no matter the time frame. Even if it's Anakin as a child, he's Damien reincarnated. Also Qui-Gon in his Cretin function, though Qui-Gon gets to repent and do some post-mortem grovelling at not having appreciated Obi-Wan enough.

4. The Dirty Angel
Darth Maul? No idea. Even in the interest of research, I wasn't strong enough to read Maul pairings, but there appear to be a lot.

5. The Saint.
Obi-Wan. See above.

6. The Slut.
Also Obi. I think Palpatine is the only character in the SW universe he didn't get paired up with. Of course, this wasn't true in ye olde Alec Guinness days, so it's entirely a Ewan McGregor thing.

7. The Lovebirds.
AU Obi/Qui stories. Also Obi/Bail Organa, which appears to be a subgenre.

[andraste]

Scott, Jean, and Charles get the worst of this treatment. Presumably this is because they're the official good guys.

Evil!Xavier stories have a long history in the comicverse. Scott is often portrayed as a jerk, and Jean as a bitch, but I can't recall many stories where they turn out to be evil the same way Charles sometimes does.

I used to think this was because people felt threatened by his telepathic powers, but Jean and Elizabeth Braddock never seemed to get the same treatment. (Emma Frost does, to a degree, but she actually was a villain when first introduced.)

Then I got into Blake's 7 fandom and discovered people doing rather similar things with Blake. At this point I decided that it might be that some fan writers have a problem with idealism, and especially with idealistic leaders.

Now, I am very much in favour of fic that explores the darker aspects of those characters, provided they make some kind of sense when compared to canon. I first found Charles interesting while he was forcing a bunch of bad memories on Magneto to make him go away, and decided that Blake was intriguing when he threatened to break a guy's hands unless he did what Blake wanted. I've read some fantastic stories where their halos were decidedly dented, or gone altogether.

It's the 'make some kind of sense when compared to canon' part that too many writers seem to have trouble with *g*.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I discovered the pattern first with Highlander and Duncan McLeod, then found the same thing going on with Blake and Buffy, so Evil!Charles doesn't surprise me. However, as you say, the fanfic writers rarely bother with that strange thing called motivation, or giving a motivation that makes sense instead of "oh, he/she just wants to own X and ruin all other relationships X has".

(I didn't read it myself, but honorh told me there is a story where Buffy actually beats up Giles for this reason, whose wounds are healed by a loving Ethan, who in addition to being the most misunderstood Saint there was is an empath and the best sorcerer ever.)

Oh, it's worse than that

[londonkds.livejournal.com]

The same story has Angelus as a misunderstood romantic deeply and domestically in love with Xander. And Wes and Faith are a heroic couple who unite into a superbeing to take the evil Buffy down.

Re: Oh, it's worse than that

[selenak.livejournal.com]

There are no words.

[londonkds.livejournal.com]

Don't worry, honorh and either gehayi or ginmar MSTed it very effectively. You should ask HH bout this author - she's written a numver of fics in BtVS/AtS, Hercules/Xena, and also I think X-Men and Highlander. All of them are execrably written, bash canonical heroes, whitewash canonical villains, portray strong female characters as psycho bitches who need to be taken down by blokes, and are obsessed with the idea of characters forming mystical gestalt beings.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Sounds like someone who needs therapy, preferably not through writing any more fanfic...

[andraste]

However, as you say, the fanfic writers rarely bother with that strange thing called motivation, or giving a motivation that makes sense instead of "oh, he/she just wants to own X and ruin all other relationships X has".

Xavier's motivation in these stories is rarely romantic (in the broadest possible sense) although I have seen stories where he mindcontrolled the X-Men into having sex with him and then wiped their minds afterwards. It's more the desire for total control of his students. Or, er, something. I don't claim to be able to make sense of them *g*.

I didn't read it myself, but honorh told me there is a story where Buffy actually beats up Giles for this reason, whose wounds are healed by a loving Ethan, who in addition to being the most misunderstood Saint there was is an empath and the best sorcerer ever.

*shudder*

I love Giles/Ethan, really I do, but Saint!Ethan drives me nuts. This is he guy who turned his ex into a demon, apparently just for the hell of it.

And of course Buffy frequently goes around beating Giles up when she doesn't like what he's doing. (Well, alright, she hit him during Passion. Special case.)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

londonkds has just informed me the story in question is even worse than that. Because there is also Angelus/Xander going on, not in the non-con but in the romantic sense, and together with Wesley and Faith they save the universe from the finally exposed evil Buffy...

[andraste]

londonkds has just informed me the story in question is even worse than that. Because there is also Angelus/Xander going on, not in the non-con but in the romantic sense, and together with Wesley and Faith they save the universe from the finally exposed evil Buffy...

*hides behind Selena, fearful of the Bad Story*

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Yes, the horror is great, but it has already been skewered by several mighty pens. Of couse, that presumably will not stop further fluffy Ethans and evil Buffys from being written...

[andraste]

Of couse, that presumably will not stop further fluffy Ethans and evil Buffys from being written...

Sadly, no. Evil is always with us, and so are fluffy Ethans, apparently *g*.

[syredronning.livejournal.com]

Considering the "I fell for XY but don't like the series" - I suspect that these people over-identify with that one or maybe two characters, and essentially ignore everything around those.

For me, it's always the complete setting with ensemble that makes it interesting, although I love AU fic where characters are in another set-up - as long as the characters stay themselves.

Hm, does it make sense?

[selenak.livejournal.com]

It does, because well-done AUs take care with their set-up as well, and try to pay attention to how this would affect the characters.

[kathyh]

I've come to the conclusion that I tend to fall for worlds.

Yes, that's it exactly. I do sometimes prefer one single character in a show but I could never love them without loving their world as well. I watched Highlander long before Methos appeared on the scene and loved the Buffyverse long before Spike. And single characters no matter how attractive need others to bounce off. It's the backstory and the relationships and the depth of the fictional world which always gets me...which is basically what you were saying *g*.

[elimandjulian.livejournal.com]

I think for me, the true test of whether a fandom grabs me is all about the storylines. Writing sells me. If the writing for a series is good, I tend to go all gooey. Of course that's not the be-all and end-all, but that's where it starts. I also am drawn to characters I feel something of a kinship with. By that, I don't mean characters in whom I see myself, but characters I can understand. That has to be present 100 percent if I decide to write for a fandom, but for just following a fandom, it's got to be 80 percent or more. If there are no characters I can relate to, I'm not interested.

Fanfic does play a part for me. I fell in love with X-Files and X-Men through fanfic, started watching the show and started adoring the show, as well. That's not foolproof for me, though. I adored Smallville fic, started watching the show and got bored with it after the first season.

Sometimes I wonder why, as someone who considers herself a longtime Trek fan, Voyager and Enterprise do nothing for me while TNG and DS9 are the air I breathe. ITA with your statement about DS9 breaking the mold with its setting and its themes. For me, there's also the fact that none of the characters had that perfection bent on them. In TNG, it seemed like there were no repercussions to wrong choices, stupid choices or unorthadox choices. On DS9, very often, things weren't wrapped up at the end of the hour and while I went into each TNG episode with a 99 percent certainty that there would be no huge shakeups in plot or character, I was always kept guessing with DS9.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

To be fair, TNG was the first Trek to actually show some follow-up in the next episode (whereas TOS regularily had Kirk & Co. be bouncy and fresh like a spring ball, no matter what happened before) now and then, with Best of Both Worlds and Family. And you could say Worf's choices had longer consequences as they turned Gowron into the Chancellor and later got Worf osctracized (for the first time) for a while. Relationships like the one between Picard and Q changed, and Data definitely evolved. However, by and large, they still had the episodic format going, helped of course by the fast the ship was elsewhere each week, and you couldn't see what happened, say, to the planet where they had worshipped Picard next.

Voyager tried to do longer arcs every now and then, but they never worked out the same way DS9s did, partly because of the format but also because they didn't have the courage to permanently change relationships other than the Torres/Paris marriage, and since Voyager came after DS9 had already shown Trek could do this, not before DS9 as TNG had done, a fan is far more likely to be dissappointed.

[avrelia.livejournal.com]

I think it is more about the world than about any particular character for me, too. But even more than the world, I got sucked into the Buffyverse because of the story and storytelling. Not so much about vampires and one girl to slay them all, but the richness of the mythology behind, and characters interplay, and the dialogues, and everything else. I guess it differ from the world – in my perception, anyway – in where I place the accent.

Focusing on the story as a whole, I was a much happier viewer than many fans. I’ve never cursed creators for leading story in an uncomfortable direction, or failing my expectations in any serious matter. Not to say that I am absolutely uncritical, but I took what I saw on screen, and tried to figure out its place and meaning inside the story, never mourning unrealized possibilities.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I think that's the problem with focusing only on one or two characters - you're much more likely to feel dissatisfied, because no two minds think alike, and the chances that the creators have the same idea about where character X should go all the time aren't that high.

And no, falling for the world doesn't mean one is uncritical, either; like you, I certainly have things I thought weren't that well executed, but there were so many other aspects I was happy with that it didn't dent my viewing pleasure.

[cadesama.livejournal.com]

Something odd I've always found is that even when I'm a fan of a show, I don't know who my favorite character is until I start reading the fanfic, or otherwise being truly fann*ish* about it. Sometimes it's instant (after EpII, I was completely in love with Anakin), but more frequently I love the show and ramble about how I love all the characters equally before I decide to get to know them. Maybe that's a weird thing from someone who is mostly a genfic fan, or a main character fan.

I tend to think that the world and the characters both are extensions of the creator's view point. The world is how Joss or Chris Carter or Lucas imagines it, and the characters are fractures of this viewpoint. So maybe you have to believe that comprehensive vision (or at least be interested in it) to fall for the world, rather than a character.

Or something.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Sometimes it's instant (after EpII, I was completely in love with Anakin), but more frequently I love the show and ramble about how I love all the characters equally before I decide to get to know them. Maybe that's a weird thing from someone who is mostly a genfic fan, or a main character fan.

No, not at all. I didn't watch Highlander and fell instantly for Methos. (For starters, he wasn't in the earliest episodes I saw, but I didn't fall for him in the first Methos episodes, either. I thought he was an interesting character.) With the Jossverse shows, it always took me a while to find out favourites, too, and I still haven't in Firefly - my love for the characters is pretty much balanced between the lot. Star Wars, though, was different - with the old movies, Vader was the most interesting character to me from the start, and since what I wanted from the prequels was the story of Anakin Skywalker, I wasn't surprised to find myself loving him most when watching them.

(Though yes, am very happy Hayden plays him, but like little Jake L., too.*g*)

[cadesama.livejournal.com]

Yup. Still there with Firefly, and I can't decide if it's a good thing or not. Does it mean that I don't love them as characters, or that nothing has happened yet to make me hate someone? Of course, with BtVS I don't think it was something Joss did, really, so much as the fans that made me turn away from Willow so very early on.

With Star Wars, yeah, it was pretty much like going into a store wanting candy and then learn it's a candy store and it's all free. Wasn't as much about Vader back then, but my main interest was in the Skywalker family's relationships. EpI scored lots of points there and then EpII made me love Ani, not just his role in everything.

[snarkel.livejournal.com]

It's always the characters... And for me, possibilities. Which explains how I can still be a Star Wars EU fan after all the crap.

Anyway, I've run across your journal a lot and I like what you have to say, so I'm friending you. And feeling like a huge dork, but what the hell.

Really gotta get my hands on B5 one day. Sounds right up my alley.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

B5 is awesome and has yet to be rivaled in terms of continuity and multiple interwoven arcs. Here is an excellent introduction and summary (http://www.livejournal.com/community/crack_van/526915.html) of the most important characters & plot lines.

Also: thank you, and hello!

[snarkel.livejournal.com]

Dumb me remembers when it started but wouldn't watch it because it looked too Trekish. I didn't start hearing all the good stuff until it was over. It took Buffy reruns to make me a TV-fandom person.

Thanks!

Hey! Name check! ;-)

[hmpf.livejournal.com]

Thanks. Bet that got me a few readers for that ancient essay... ;-)

Wow, you write a lot here... I've been all but swallowed by Real Life since I've returned from Britain, and still haven't managed to give the LJ backlog more than the most cursory of scan-throughs. Your LJ is top of the list, though, when I get back to actually reading through all I've missed here! I see you posted lots of tasty meta...

Oh, and... did you see? http://www.allabouthmpf.com/green1.jpg *g*

Re: Hey! Name check! ;-)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

The essay is worth reading.*g* Also, you look like a mermaid!