Once Upon A Time 3.16
Apr. 7th, 2014 10:23 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
selenakIn which backstory strikes, and I'm changing my mind on a certain issue yet again.
Okay, I'm back to thinking Rumplestilskin IS Zelena's biological father after all (though he doesn't know it). Now granted, the Wizard of Oz, being a professional conman, isn't the most reliable source of exposition, but if his answer to Zelena's question as to why Cora abandoned her is correct - "because you couldn't give her what she wanted, becoming royalty" - that would imply Zelena's birth happened at a time when Cora already had a shot at being royalty, which would be in however much time passes between her spinning gold and marrying Henry Sr. If she was already pregnant by the time she removed her heart and told Rumplestilskin no daughter of hers would be a daughter of his, I suppose she could have pleaded needing more engagement time to Henry Sr. and his father the king, given secret birth, then married Henry Sr. Thematically, it would also fit with Zelena asking Rumple in the present day action early on whether Baelfire/Neal had been worth all he did, and Rumple replying he'd do it all again, and the sibling jealousy theme, as well as the general becoming-your-parents-or-not theme; if Zelena is not only Cora's daughter but also Rumplestilskin's, then he's done to her what his father did to him, down to mockery and verbal humilation. And it would be an irony of fate for Rumplestilskin to lose the son he moved worlds and ruined realms for via the daughter he unwittingly spurned, and to be eventually stuck with said daughter instead of his son.
(Alternative possibility: they're taking a leaf from Wicked and the Wizard is Zelena's biological father, presumably having a fling with Cora pre- The Miller's Daughter, and that's how he knows about her to begin with. It still would make the Rumple-as-father-figure emotional dynamics work.)
Having just watched some of the s2 episodes with audio commentary, I also recall the producers remarks on the Rumplestilskin and Regina relationship and how one reason for his emotional power over her was that their relationship started by him giving her what she didn't get from her mother, approval, and of course then he started to withhold it when she didn't progress as he wanted and gave it again when she did, and how even after they'd become enemies and she started to plot against him, a bit of that power was still there. He isn't her father but he is her fairy tale godfather. So the scene with Regina and Robin where she talks about how reading Rumple's "Cora dear, I finally got my hands on your first born and she's the most powerful and talented etc." letter used to give her strength when she was down until now, when she realised he hadn't been talking about her, gave me a direct flashback to that commentary. This, btw, is why Zelena-and-Regina-as-sisters thing is really starting to work for me. Zelena, of course, is unable to see Regina as anything as the favoured child/student and unaware that Rumplestilskin - in the flashbacks reminding us that no, he's really not a misunderstood woobie and especially in his creating-a-monster phase was an absolute bastard - manipulated them both.
Incidentally, as I mentioned before, back when The Miller's Daughter was broacast it got me wondering how Rumple was planning to work out this whole curse thing if Cora had been true to her her word sans loophole and had given him a shared daughter, because the whole "kill whom you love most" part seemed and still seems somewhat quintessential, and if Regina had been his daughter, would he have still manipulated her into growing into someone willing to do that, and who did he have in mind for the "whom you love most" role in that case? This episode sort of answers that in that Zelena, raised by an adopted father who hates and fears her and immediately latching on to Rumple as the ideal replacement parent and magical godfather, disqualifies herself as the curse caster by loving him best. (And he, of course, has no intention of dying.)
The dimension hopping slippers being silver, as in the Oz books, not ruby red, as in the movie, was a neat touch. Now usually yet another way to travel between realms would have made me roll my eyes because it makes Rumple's grand scheme look increasingly unnecessary, but in this case, it really works because "why didn't he..." is directly addressed and explained: he ruined his own chance for an alternate realm travel by being his dastardly self to Zelena.
Considering the just cancelled spin-off had as a main plot a supervillain scheme to break the three laws of magic - you can't raise the dead, make someone love you or change the past - and had the main antagonist temporarily succeed in breaking two of those before getting foiled, it doesn't surprise me that Zelena's end game turns out to be breaking the third law - changing the past. For which apparantly she needs ingredients that include Charming's courage and Regina's heart. And, presumably, Snow's yet unborn child. Immediate thought upon reveal: I do hope the show doesn't use that scheme to resurrect Neal before Zelena inevitably is foiled in the finale. I'm sorry, but I still stand behind what I've said last week - if you want to keep Rumplestilskin around as a character instead of leaving him dead, his resurrection has to come at a heavy emotional price, and Neal's actor is the weakest one in the bunch. Now I could see Rumple sacrificing himself again to bring back his son in a past changing scenario as also working, plot wise, but then we're stuck with adult Neal in place of Robert Carlyle, and, err, no, not really.
The Hook and Henry scenes were lovely, and grounded in the Hook and Baelfire ones, which means I get emotional continuation from Bae, whom I loved, without adult Neal, whom I didn't, which is great, she says heartlessly.
Speaking of heartlessness: Regina figuring out a way to survive her duel with Zelena despite Rumple-related feelings of magical inferiority via remembering that while Zelena was also taught by Rumplestilskin, she never knew Cora, and by recalling just how Cora survived and remained on top for many years was great. And while the scene with Tink at Granny's had me groan, no, Tinkerbell, telling her love is destiny is exactly the WRONG thing to do, the two scenes with only Regina and Robin in the woods later totally made up for that by being great again. Am still on board with this new relationship; her trusting him with her heart may be blatantly obvious symbolism but hey, this show often doesn't do subtle, and as long as the two of them continue to be that charming together, I'm not opposed to it at all. (It also works as Regina really trying something new in the m/f relationship department; her marriage with Leopold was enforced by her mother, her relationship with Graham/the Huntsman was enforced on her part, her relationship with Sydney/the Genie was all manipulation and control on her part. For her to befriend a man and trust him with something that could give him power over her if abused is major.)
Okay, I'm back to thinking Rumplestilskin IS Zelena's biological father after all (though he doesn't know it). Now granted, the Wizard of Oz, being a professional conman, isn't the most reliable source of exposition, but if his answer to Zelena's question as to why Cora abandoned her is correct - "because you couldn't give her what she wanted, becoming royalty" - that would imply Zelena's birth happened at a time when Cora already had a shot at being royalty, which would be in however much time passes between her spinning gold and marrying Henry Sr. If she was already pregnant by the time she removed her heart and told Rumplestilskin no daughter of hers would be a daughter of his, I suppose she could have pleaded needing more engagement time to Henry Sr. and his father the king, given secret birth, then married Henry Sr. Thematically, it would also fit with Zelena asking Rumple in the present day action early on whether Baelfire/Neal had been worth all he did, and Rumple replying he'd do it all again, and the sibling jealousy theme, as well as the general becoming-your-parents-or-not theme; if Zelena is not only Cora's daughter but also Rumplestilskin's, then he's done to her what his father did to him, down to mockery and verbal humilation. And it would be an irony of fate for Rumplestilskin to lose the son he moved worlds and ruined realms for via the daughter he unwittingly spurned, and to be eventually stuck with said daughter instead of his son.
(Alternative possibility: they're taking a leaf from Wicked and the Wizard is Zelena's biological father, presumably having a fling with Cora pre- The Miller's Daughter, and that's how he knows about her to begin with. It still would make the Rumple-as-father-figure emotional dynamics work.)
Having just watched some of the s2 episodes with audio commentary, I also recall the producers remarks on the Rumplestilskin and Regina relationship and how one reason for his emotional power over her was that their relationship started by him giving her what she didn't get from her mother, approval, and of course then he started to withhold it when she didn't progress as he wanted and gave it again when she did, and how even after they'd become enemies and she started to plot against him, a bit of that power was still there. He isn't her father but he is her fairy tale godfather. So the scene with Regina and Robin where she talks about how reading Rumple's "Cora dear, I finally got my hands on your first born and she's the most powerful and talented etc." letter used to give her strength when she was down until now, when she realised he hadn't been talking about her, gave me a direct flashback to that commentary. This, btw, is why Zelena-and-Regina-as-sisters thing is really starting to work for me. Zelena, of course, is unable to see Regina as anything as the favoured child/student and unaware that Rumplestilskin - in the flashbacks reminding us that no, he's really not a misunderstood woobie and especially in his creating-a-monster phase was an absolute bastard - manipulated them both.
Incidentally, as I mentioned before, back when The Miller's Daughter was broacast it got me wondering how Rumple was planning to work out this whole curse thing if Cora had been true to her her word sans loophole and had given him a shared daughter, because the whole "kill whom you love most" part seemed and still seems somewhat quintessential, and if Regina had been his daughter, would he have still manipulated her into growing into someone willing to do that, and who did he have in mind for the "whom you love most" role in that case? This episode sort of answers that in that Zelena, raised by an adopted father who hates and fears her and immediately latching on to Rumple as the ideal replacement parent and magical godfather, disqualifies herself as the curse caster by loving him best. (And he, of course, has no intention of dying.)
The dimension hopping slippers being silver, as in the Oz books, not ruby red, as in the movie, was a neat touch. Now usually yet another way to travel between realms would have made me roll my eyes because it makes Rumple's grand scheme look increasingly unnecessary, but in this case, it really works because "why didn't he..." is directly addressed and explained: he ruined his own chance for an alternate realm travel by being his dastardly self to Zelena.
Considering the just cancelled spin-off had as a main plot a supervillain scheme to break the three laws of magic - you can't raise the dead, make someone love you or change the past - and had the main antagonist temporarily succeed in breaking two of those before getting foiled, it doesn't surprise me that Zelena's end game turns out to be breaking the third law - changing the past. For which apparantly she needs ingredients that include Charming's courage and Regina's heart. And, presumably, Snow's yet unborn child. Immediate thought upon reveal: I do hope the show doesn't use that scheme to resurrect Neal before Zelena inevitably is foiled in the finale. I'm sorry, but I still stand behind what I've said last week - if you want to keep Rumplestilskin around as a character instead of leaving him dead, his resurrection has to come at a heavy emotional price, and Neal's actor is the weakest one in the bunch. Now I could see Rumple sacrificing himself again to bring back his son in a past changing scenario as also working, plot wise, but then we're stuck with adult Neal in place of Robert Carlyle, and, err, no, not really.
The Hook and Henry scenes were lovely, and grounded in the Hook and Baelfire ones, which means I get emotional continuation from Bae, whom I loved, without adult Neal, whom I didn't, which is great, she says heartlessly.
Speaking of heartlessness: Regina figuring out a way to survive her duel with Zelena despite Rumple-related feelings of magical inferiority via remembering that while Zelena was also taught by Rumplestilskin, she never knew Cora, and by recalling just how Cora survived and remained on top for many years was great. And while the scene with Tink at Granny's had me groan, no, Tinkerbell, telling her love is destiny is exactly the WRONG thing to do, the two scenes with only Regina and Robin in the woods later totally made up for that by being great again. Am still on board with this new relationship; her trusting him with her heart may be blatantly obvious symbolism but hey, this show often doesn't do subtle, and as long as the two of them continue to be that charming together, I'm not opposed to it at all. (It also works as Regina really trying something new in the m/f relationship department; her marriage with Leopold was enforced by her mother, her relationship with Graham/the Huntsman was enforced on her part, her relationship with Sydney/the Genie was all manipulation and control on her part. For her to befriend a man and trust him with something that could give him power over her if abused is major.)
no subject
Date: 2014-04-07 06:49 pm (UTC)/Rumplestilskin - in the flashbacks reminding us that no, he's really not a misunderstood woobie and especially in his creating-a-monster phase was an absolute bastard - manipulated them both/ - Indeed, the flashbacks were delicious in this episode, weren't they? We discovered so many new, juicy things!
/The dimension hopping slippers being silver, as in the Oz books, not ruby red, as in the movie, was a neat touch./ - That was a very lovely touch! *nods*
no subject
Date: 2014-04-08 04:13 pm (UTC)