So, that 'shipping thing

[selenak]

Something that occurred to me when reading debates and entries and stories in lj world recently: there seem to be roughly two extreme attitudes (with a lot of people moving in between, of course). One is to not just have an OTP but to declare that OTP exclusively destined for each other, declaring stories pairing one or both partners of that OTP with someone else not to be of interest (or just plain wrong) for this particular fan.

On the opposite end of the spectrum, you have the fascination of pairing a favourite character with as many different other characters as the fan in question can find or is interested in. These aren't mutually exclusive attitudes; I've seen fans who hold characters X and Y dear as an exclusive OTP, while happily writing Z/whoever stories. But being in a metamood, I'm curious what makes a fan go from liking a particular pairing to abhorring all other combinations for one partner in this pairing. (What makes a fan pair a favourite character with everybody, but hopefully not their dog, is less mysterious: it usually works on the "wow, he/she is hot!" basis and is helped if the character in question has shown great chemistry with diverse people in canon. See also: Faith, Lilah, Spike in the Jossverse, Avon in B7, or Methos in HL. Though also Marcus Cole of B5, who has to be the only canon virgin ending up as a fanon slut.)

One possibility could be, boring as it sounds, canon. I mean, take Zoe and Wash from Firefly, during those episodes we have until the show got cancelled (grr, argh!) shown to be happily married. Given their overall characterisation, it would take some serious twists and turns to make a plausible story in which either cheats on the other, so I could understand Zoe/Wash 'shippers declaring they couldn't believe/ wouldn't want to read such a story. But the most striking examples of the exclusivity syndrome I've run across (recently - let's not get into the legendary 'shipping wars of yesteryear, featuring B/A versus B/S, or A/C versus B/A) weren't fans of canonical couples. No, I'm thinking of several Remus/Sirius 'shippers who declared the thought of Remus/Tonks to be abhorrent and vile to them.

(Footnote here: I can believe Remus/Sirius as a couple. I can believe Remus and Sirius as friends without a slice of erotic interest in another; since this is the more unusual take, it strikes me as more intriguing at the moment if it occurs in a story which also strongly features them as friends, but that's me. Where the Remus/Tonks idea came from, I don't know; maybe I missed something on OotP, or maybe it's just because Tonks - as opposed to Hermione or McGonnagal - is both legal and young and thus deemed suitable for Remus. In any case, if the author takes the trouble to explain how this relationship comes about, I can believe Remus/Tonks as well.)

Since JKR, as opposed to many of her readers, seems completely uninterested in Remus Lupin's love life, it's unlikely that either 'ship will ever be given authorial confirmation, either in the form of "by the way, Harry, Sirius and I were a couple" or, "by the way, Harry, Tonks and I are an item now". So it's strictly a fanfic idea the objection aims at. Not being really into any of the HP pairings, I'm probably not in an emotional position to understand, so I tried to think of any OTPs I feel exclusive about, or, conversely, whether I can see the characters I like paired up with everyone.

Let's see. Space stations first:
- Londo and G'Kar: nah. All "theirlove/hateissocanonical" jokes aside, it's equally canonical that they are quite polyamorous. Besides, ignore Londo's love for Adira and you remove crucial motivation for at least two major decisions. And Londo and Timov are fun together. As are G'Kar and Lyta. However, I can't see either of them with just anybody, either. In those long years before much Centauri fanfic was written, I searched and searched and found the beginning of a, get this, Marcus/Londo story. Leaving aside my problem with Marcus pairings in general, I also for the life of me couldn't see Londo being interested. As for G'Kar, one of Andraste's friends longed for G'Kar/Sheridan, which equally boggled the mind. (My mind, that is.) No way, thought I. So here I am somewhere between not exclusive and not open to everything.

- Garak/Bashir: hm. Not exclusive, because I've read both of them with other people and enjoyed those stories. I have a secret weakness for Bashir/Dax (either Jadzia or Ezri, though in the later's case mostly because canon gave us so little justification) and every now and then toy with the idea of taking on Garak/Ziyal. However, the big competition for this pairing in the fandom is O'Brien/Bashir, and that's where I come closest, I suppose, to the aforementioned fannish feelings of possessiveness and deliberate avoidance of another combination. I like to think it's because O'Brien just pings me as straight (not to mention loyal to his wife), but maybe I'm just feeling competitive.

- Quark: Yup, that would be my character whom I can see paired up with everyone. (Not that he does get that kind of fanfic, despite canonical justification for slut status.) However, I do have a clear preference for my unrequited love story of choice, i.e. Quark/Jadzia Dax.

Jossverse:

Ah. Despite all the nice text and subtext, only one of the relationships I was emotionally invested in most actually was sexual - Angel/Darla, with an emphasis on Darla. However, I never had trouble reading either of them with someone else. The other two relationships I cared about most were of the family kind - Buffy & Dawn, and Angel & Connor. So no 'shipping in the romantic sense.

(Which isn't to say I didn't enjoy watching a lot of the pairings the shows offered, or that I don't read fanfic about them. But they aren't OTPs.)

X-Men Movieverse:

Xavier and Magneto all the way if we're talking about the relationship which fascinates me most. But I do enjoy reading Magneto/Mystique a lot as well, Magneto/Pyro is fun, and I'd be perfectly willing to read any Xavier/Someone else pairings, but poor Charles apparently is restricted to fannish monogamy. Mostly. Andraste wrote a very creepy but plausible Xavier/Rogue story, as I recall.

Star Wars:

In the OT, I liked Han and Leia well enough, but what really interested me was the Vader and Luke relationship. So when I later found out that there was Han/Luke slash, I went "huh?" in incomprehension, but did not feel any fannish hackles raised. (BTW, is there any Han/Lando? Because I always thought that would be more interesting.) Luke/Wedge got a "who?" from me, because I had trouble remembering Wedge Antilles at all.

But the prequels are what turned me into a genuine Star Wars fan. Like the Jossverse, though, they did this without me going OTP. Which isn't to say I don't like Anakin and Padme together; I'm in the minority of fans who find their relationship believable and touching. However, I'm more fascinated by the relationships between Anakin and Obi-Wan, and Anakin and Palpatine (one of the many reasons why I'm looking forward to Episode III). And I don't mean in the slash sense. The major sexual pairing in prequel fanfic, however, Qui-Gon/Obi-Wan, is just not my thing; perhaps due to mentor-or-parent-figure/student objections, perhaps due to canon objections (I'm not of the Saint!Obi faction, but I don't think he's a hypocrite, and do think he sincerely believes in the Jedi code, which nixes love affairs). So SW leaves me without any strong romantic or sexual pairing feelings one way or the other.

In conclusion: I'm a boring middle of the road fan when it comes to 'shipping characters.

Comments

[ide-cyan.livejournal.com]

What I've come across, with the Remus/Tonks pairing, is the idea that when they got together Tonks would make herself look like Sirius, which just seems like a shoddy, exploitative reason to put them together.

My OTP is Matthew Gore/Albertine Meyer, from Chocky's Children. Well, it's a OT3 if you add in Chocky herself. *g* He's an amazing artist who has the ability to draw from remote viewing (telepathically, through the eyes of Chocky's other children); she's a prodigious mathematician who later hacks into radiotelescopes and supervises a project that creates a source of anti-gravity.

I just don't write much fic for them, because there wasn't sexual tension per se between them (they were too young, and I was watching this show as a kid myself), but as canonical pairings go, it's hard to come up with a better match.

[ide-cyan.livejournal.com]

Oh yeah, and: they fight crime, too! :-D

[selenak.livejournal.com]

What I've come across, with the Remus/Tonks pairing, is the idea that when they got together Tonks would make herself look like Sirius, which just seems like a shoddy, exploitative reason to put them together.

Quite, and has nothing to do with Tonks as a character at all. Yikes. I saw that fernwithy, whose SW stuff I adore, has written Remus/Tonks and am on the brink of giving it a try - since she is a) not a slasher and b) generally good, I guess that won't be her rationale.

My OTP is Matthew Gore/Albertine Meyer, from Chocky's Children.

They sound interesting and look cute on your icon. Is this available on DVD or video?

[breidablik.livejournal.com]

On the opposite end of the spectrum, you have the fascination of pairing a favourite character with as many different other characters as the fan in question can find or is interested in.

That's me! If I do read anything, it has to have Angel as one half of the pairing. I was quite bemused to discover I really have very little problem over who the 'other half' is. Of course, I have characters I prefer to see him paired with, but I'll generally give any Angel combination a go!

Actually, thinking about it, I don't think I've read any fic that doesn't involve Angel. It would never cross my mind to read another pairing...

::ponders that discovery::

[ide-cyan.livejournal.com]

Yep. Chocky, Chocky's Children and Chocky's Challenge are available on DVD. I bought the last two in Region 2 on eBay a while back, to replace my crap Nth-generation videocassette copies, which I'd acquired from a Usenet acquaintance in the late 1990s. I still don't have Chocky on DVD, but I wasn't so desperate to have it, because I have the book by John Wyndham, of the same title, that it was based on, to reread if I feel like it; and obviously it's better than the TV series; whereas, the subsequent two series were sequels written purely for TV. (But I've seen a novelisation on eBay, although I haven't acquired it.)

Albertine is a creation of the second TV series, Chocky's Children, who becomes the lead character for Chocky's Challenge, and one of my first TV heroines. :-)

(And thank all fannish deities memes went around more slowly back then, or she'd have been labelled a Mary Sue.)

[altariel.livejournal.com]

Quark: Yup, that would be my character whom I can see paired up with everyone.

Quark/Garak?

[un-crayon-rouge.livejournal.com]

Oh, ah, oh! I just read over a couple of your stories over at ff.net, and I was so very gald you have an LJ too, so I could drop by and say how much I adore you. No, really. I loved that Adira/G'Kar story, and the Garak/Bashir, and the Kira/Dukat, they are SO my OTP, and I know I'm being silly and fangirlish here, don't pay any attention to me. Am adding you as a friend, I'll unadd you if this is a problem, feel free to add me back.

*whew*

[selenak.livejournal.com]

It's fascinating how differently it works for different fans. I mean, I have fandoms in which I love one specific character beyond all measure. The Jossverse isn't one of them, though. Meaning that of course I have varying degrees of affection - on BTVS, I like Buffy best and Willow least, with everyone else posed in between, but I don't dislike Willow and have been reading Willow-centric stories. Heck, I even read and enjoyed a Snyder-centric story.*g* And on AtS, I probably like Darla best and Gunn least, but I loved Yahtzee's completely Darla-free and all Gunn, all the time New Year story (forgot the title right now.

Of those fandoms where my love for one particular character is out of bounds with the rest - say, Londo in B5 - I also enjoy stories featured by his distinct absence in any form. Though of course I look for Londo stories first.

I think what it comes down to is what I contemplated a few weeks back - falling for a world as opposed to falling for only one character.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Was that a challenge?*g*

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Come on, who wouldn't be happy over that much enthusiasm, especially from a fellow Beatles fan? *g* Thank you!

[illmantrim.livejournal.com]

All of your statements make a lot of sense. I love reading your metas. Very cool.

[persephone-kore.livejournal.com]

I can kind of guess at the thought process leading to the Remus/pseudo-Sirius -- but the idea makes me rather sad, partly because I've also seen Tonks shown as being attracted to Remus and then not just finding out he's with Sirius, but walking in on them while they're having sex or at least making out and chatting about how they know about her crush and what a silly idea it is that Remus could be attracted to her, since she's a girl. And it wasn't really played as "Man, that'd be a hard way to find out the guy you like is involved."

Fern's explanation for where the Remus/Tonks pairing "came from" for her is that the way they interact, however briefly, just struck her that way and she was surprised to learn she wasn't the only one. Her HP stories are all very good too. :)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

*beams*

Thank you.

[altariel.livejournal.com]

Yeah, go on!

We're vibing here

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

Ah. Despite all the nice text and subtext, only one of the relationships I was emotionally invested in most actually was sexual - Angel/Darla, with an emphasis on Darla. However, I never had trouble reading either of them with someone else. The other two relationships I cared about most were of the family kind - Buffy & Dawn, and Angel & Connor. So no 'shipping in the romantic sense.
(Which isn't to say I didn't enjoy watching a lot of the pairings the shows offered, or that I don't read fanfic about them. But they aren't OTPs.)

Sometimes I feel really out of place in Buffyverse fandom because all my 'ships are the platonic ones. Angel+Connor, of course, Angel+Cordelia (pre-mid-season 3), Buffy+Faith (OK, yeah, enjoyed the subtext, but), Buffy+Giles+Willow+Xander.

I'm just not big on the romantic/sexual pairings. Enjoy them, sure, like Willow/Tara, and my favoritist favorite, Darla/Angel(us).

Maybe it's because I'm 40 and family and friendships seems more resonant to me than romances. I don't know.

[swmbo.livejournal.com]

I'm the person on the other side from either - I don't really have an OTP...there are definitely characters that fascinate me more than others, and who I prefer to read about, in theory. Theory because it also is a lot more painful when I see them written in a way that doesn't mesh with my personal view.

But I'm also different than a lot of readers in that I tend to prefer to NOT read too heavily in one pairing. I find when I do, I become more and more sensitive to things that feel cliche or out of character for a pairing and I end up being frustrated more than entertained. For an example that will never exist, I could read one fic in which Angel is lovingly rubbing Snyder's bald head for comfort and be happy. But after two or three fics, it would probably begin to turn me off the fic. So I try to skip around a lot.

And hey! Snyder is fabulous! Hee! There should be more Snyder fic.

But I'll read almost any pairing and even beyond that, I have a real fondness for gen fic.

Interestingly, because of the sensitivity to pairings that I start to build up, I've found myself doing things lately like reading in fandoms I have no actual interest in the show. Because it's something new and different, where it's not going to grate on me. And also because it minimizes the irritation with OOCness...

For the most part, I'm kind of anti-OTP for myself. I like to joke around with the phrase and create an OTP of the week, or whatever, but in reality my real focus is - I like to approach each story from a canon basis, no matter the pairing or situation. I believe I know how the characters feel about each other during the actual show - the author needs to convince me that the relationship (unless it's a canon ship and even then it needs to be very in character) is workable in each separate fic.

The thing about OTPs and why I can't do them is it becomes very easy to have authors assume it as a fact that 'so and so are together' - and that rarely works for me.

There, did I babble on a lot?

SNYGEL 4EVAH!

[selenak.livejournal.com]

chatting about how they know about her crush and what a silly idea it is that Remus could be attracted to her, since she's a girl. And it wasn't really played as "Man, that'd be a hard way to find out the guy you like is involved."

Bleh. That sounds suspiciously like bashing of female characters.

Her HP stories are all very good too.

Having already read the Petunia and Lily story, the James & Snape story and The Doll's Army, I'm convinced they are and will start on the 'shippy ones now.

[un-crayon-rouge.livejournal.com]

Aaaand, of course: *snuggles* the icon.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Ah, but for that one, there'll be a price. Get thee to the Multiverse 2004 (http://www.suberic.net/multiverse/) and pick up one of the remaining requests - there are enough to choose from. (Something like, say, Scorpius & Garak or Servalan/Saffron (from Firefly).)

If you do that, and write it, I shall write a Garak/Quark.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

That means I have to provide more material.*g*

Re: We're vibing here

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Hail, fellow family 'shipper.*g* Incidentally, great icon! May I borrow it?

Maybe it's because I'm 40 and family and friendships seems more resonant to me than romances. I don't know.

I'm turning 35 next months, so yes, age might be a factor.

[altariel.livejournal.com]

Demanding reciprocal fic! Unfair!

OK, completely fair.

I'll have a poke around that list and see if inspiration strikes. Servalan/Saffron is freaking me out slightly. Sure the universe cannot contain that much lipsticked malevolence?

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Theory because it also is a lot more painful when I see them written in a way that doesn't mesh with my personal view.

I know what you mean. If I never see another 'fic again in which Giles has a Mr. Hyde-like alter ego named Ripper (how difficult is the concept of "nickname as a teenager", anyway?), it'll be too soon.

And hey! Snyder is fabulous! Hee! There should be more Snyder fic.

Mikelesq wrote some excellent Snyder-centric stories as I recall. I'm all for exploring him further.*g*

But I'll read almost any pairing and even beyond that, I have a real fondness for gen fic.

Me too. As marinarusalka once said, in nine out of ten cases, I'd take a well-written gen story over a well-written slash or het pairing.

I like to approach each story from a canon basis, no matter the pairing or situation. I believe I know how the characters feel about each other during the actual show - the author needs to convince me that the relationship (unless it's a canon ship and even then it needs to be very in character) is workable in each separate fic.

The thing about OTPs and why I can't do them is it becomes very easy to have authors assume it as a fact that 'so and so are together' - and that rarely works for me.

Quite. Which is, for example, why I never fell for ajhalluk's excellent "Lust over Pendle" the way many other fans did. It's witty, it's sparkling, it's original and meshes OCs with canon characters beautifully... but one of the central premises, the Draco/Neville pairing, was never sold to me because, in this particular story (or rather, novel - it is that long) she starts out with them already being a couple. And without being shown how on earth HP Draco got to be LoP Draco, and why Neville would be in a relationship with him, of all the people, I just couldn't suspend enough disbelief.

And yes, if a story doesn't bother to explain on its own and just assumes fanon (not canon) is universally accepted as true, working from there, it becomes touch and go with the reader.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

But wouldn't it be ever so entertaining to see who survives? *g*

Anyway, do tell me if you find anything on that list. Then we'll proceed from there.

[pandarus.livejournal.com]

...could I tempt you to try Hall's pre-Pendle Time Shall Not Mend (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/russell.baldwin/ebooks/tsnm/), a HP/Vorkosigan crossover, which follows the boys' interactions when they've just been paired up together in the War and are negotiating an uncertain friendship, or maybe just their PWPish finally-getting-together story Not a Whisper (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/russell.baldwin/ebooks/naw/), which also predates Pendle?

...and if you like those, the latest, 'The Kindly Ones', draws on 'Not a Whisper' as much as it does 'Disipation and Despair' or 'Lust Over Pendle', in terms of knowing who Roddy is. Er.

[/ajhallfangirl]

(Evidently I was pretty damned convinced (after being startled) by the unexpected viability of a Draco-Neville friendship developing in the future, if Draco were to eschew The Dark Side of The Force, type of thing, 'cause I ended up writing that myself, but YMMV. Still, the backstory maybe helps a little?)