Once upon a time 4.07 - 4.09
Nov. 20th, 2014 11:14 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
selenakOr, the great Once Upon a Time catching up post.
I had a couple of problems with The Snow Queen, not the least of which was that I simply didn't buy Snow, who had grown up with Regina as a step mother, the occasional encounter with fairies, and a werewolf as a best friend as a young adult, would have that spontanous "Emma!" reaction required for the Ingrid-Elsa-Emma parallels to work, to what was, compared with your every day Enchanted Forest event, really not that much of a power display. Or that Emma would get into the panicking-over-powers mindframe so quickly. This was solved somewhat in the subsequent episodes because the inadvertant blast against Henry was enough to justify Emma spiralling into panic.
My other problem was that considering that Ingrid when getting trapped in the urn for the first time is still a self loathing naive unable to control her powers who never harmed anyone deliberately, but when getting out of the urn decades later is not only able to perfectly control her powers and teach this to Elsa, but also able to think of complicated schemes once Anna shows up. Now this would be explainable if she had been conscious in the urn for decades - which would be enough to change anyone - but Elsa when later trapped in the urn has no memory of time having passed. I mean, I get Ingrid is a might-have-been for Elsa, and thus has to go bad, but this still didn't really work emotionally for me.
Otoh I was delighted by the Will Scarlet & Robin Hood reunion in The Snow Queen (I wonder how it works for people who haven't seen the spin-off, btw?) and subsequent team-up in Breaking Glass. And v. v. amused about Will's remark re: being into evil queens (just tell him about Anastasia already, Will). I mean, considering the Mary Margaret-David-Kathryn triangle of amnesiac doom was the weakest part of season 1, no question about it, and I am not keen on a repeat with other players, but the show keeps bribing me both with the Will & Robin scenes and with the Snow & Regina scenes in Breaking Glass which were as opposed to the Snow and Regina scene in the season opener not cut but present and absolutely adorable, and dammit, I loved those, and they were directly related, so I can't dislike this plot yet. Also since Marian is frozen as opposed to Kathryn Robin hasn't lied to her, unlike amnesiac David, and hopefully will inform her of the truth once she's saved. (Which btw I'm very certain now she will be, beause Anna and Christoph got frozen in the past, and there's no way this show is going to let Anna and Christoph be dead. Thawing all around will happen. ) Which will still suck for Marian but be better than being lied to. Also Robin is doing something constructive re: Regina's fear of villain predestination (leading to the Will team up I get bribed with) and demonstrates to her that the book isn't prophecy but a multiverse volume, which means free will exists. This is commendable active and constructive, as opposed to amnesiac! David in season 1 who only kept dithering.
(BTW, I also think this means what I already guessed - the book - while possibly created in the past by someone in as much as the physical form is concerned - is written not by one particular author but by the characters themselves, a very meta comment on storytelling. I.e. Regina is responsible for both her bad choices and her good ones, and for her own happiness.)
Speaking of Regina: the Breaking Glass two parter, which as opposed to The Snow Queen I loved, had some great scenes for her. With Henry (now reading Marvel comics starring Wolverine with your kid is true maternal dedication!), with David and Snow, and with Snow alone. The "You know what my greatest regret is?" David: "The countless innocent lives you destroyed?" and Regina after a glare saying that it is gaslighting Henry once he figured out the truth was both funny and great character stuff. Because Regina while doing currently much better in the villain redemption stages than her old teacher still, and that's realistic, WOULD care about what she did to people she cares about (and Henry is heading that short list, always) in a way she doesn't yet about what she did to strangers. And it's a great reminder by the show that in s1 Henry had a really good reason to distrust Regina and her love for him, which not so coincidentally changed once she stopped exactly this type of behavior. Another layer of that scene is that Regina is giving David and Snow parenting advice in this scene - which they accept. That this is believable says such a lot about how far everyone has come.
As for the Regina and Snow scenes, I know I'm biased, but I loved them to bits. Snow had been the first to notice Regina noticing Robin (which Regina did before spotting the tattoo!), so it's not surprising she puts two and two together now, but again, it says a lot that Regina talks with her about not just the Robin situation - with Snow ruefully mentioning her own affair with a married man - but about her predestination issues as well, and Snow responds as she does about her own flaws and capacity for darkness, and belief in hope.
The other great conversation in that two parter was between Emma and Rumplestilskin in the mansion. It's probably the most honest conversation he's had with anyone in a long while (mutual snarling with Hook doesn't count), and while there is still a gigantic lie of omission in it (i.e. he doesn't tell her that what he's prepared won't just strip her of magic but will swallow her hole), everything he does say is true, and self aware. Unless in extremis (as in the Peter Pan situation mid s3), he's simply not capable of giving up power, being who he is. That conversation reminded me that Emma and Gold had some great scenes together in s1 and s2, and made me hope the show will pair them up again. Not least because while he's confiscated Emma's cell phone with Hook's messages, she's found to figure out just what he's done more recently sooner or later.
Speaking of Hook: life just continues to have it in for him. Mind you, given the Graham and Aurora precedents, a person without their heart and not under a direct command by whoever holds their heart is still able to act and speak on their own initiative (Aurora asking to be locked up so Cora can't use her further, Graham back in the Enchanted Forest helping Charming and in present day slowly figuring out the truth plus falling for Emma), and I hope the show remembers that. Though I also assume Rumplestilskin took the precaution to order Hook not to speak to anyone about this. Btw, even for Rumplestilkin and Hook scenes, their scene in front of the mansion had an extra nastiness, with Gold truly rubbing it by bringing up Milah.
When Hook called Emma from Gold's shop, I was hoping Belle was there and overheard him, but no such luck. Unless it'll be revealed she was in the next episode?
As for the Elsa, Ingrid, Anna flashbacks: my objection re: Ingrid's sudden power command and plotting ability from above not withstanding, I liked them a lot. Elsa believing Anna over Ingrid but pretending not to in order to trick Ingrid, Ingrid deciding that her misery was due to her sisters not having had powers so the solution were sisters with powers and embracing your inner monsters, it all worked for me, and as a bonus, I got the use of the Andersen fairy tale splinter/shard, on Anna, in a way that tied with the mirror Belle from some episodes ago. What Anna-with-splinter said to Elsa wasn't invented (anymore than what mirror!Belle told Belle): not being given any explanations by Elsa or her parents, she must have felt deserted and punished by Elsa's withdrawal as a child. The distortion lies in the mirror shard not allowing any other emotions.
Oh, and thank you, Christoph, for pointing out before that that the royal family of Arendelle's way of rather going for the mindwipe than face their problems is, err, not constructive. Ingrid is another case in point, what with the memory taking from Elsa so they can have a fresh start and presumably on Emma for a similar reason. (Though how Ingrid is able to do that through an urn when it has nothing to do with snow powers is beyond me, see above re: utter inconsistency about just how/when Ingrid learned to control her powers and some other magic besides.)
New unseen player the sorceror, with strong hints he's actually identitical with the apprentice: I have no opinion other than the obvious continuity problem if he can just open portals to our world and Rumplestilkin's centuries long quest. But I'm willing to wait for further developments on that one.
I had a couple of problems with The Snow Queen, not the least of which was that I simply didn't buy Snow, who had grown up with Regina as a step mother, the occasional encounter with fairies, and a werewolf as a best friend as a young adult, would have that spontanous "Emma!" reaction required for the Ingrid-Elsa-Emma parallels to work, to what was, compared with your every day Enchanted Forest event, really not that much of a power display. Or that Emma would get into the panicking-over-powers mindframe so quickly. This was solved somewhat in the subsequent episodes because the inadvertant blast against Henry was enough to justify Emma spiralling into panic.
My other problem was that considering that Ingrid when getting trapped in the urn for the first time is still a self loathing naive unable to control her powers who never harmed anyone deliberately, but when getting out of the urn decades later is not only able to perfectly control her powers and teach this to Elsa, but also able to think of complicated schemes once Anna shows up. Now this would be explainable if she had been conscious in the urn for decades - which would be enough to change anyone - but Elsa when later trapped in the urn has no memory of time having passed. I mean, I get Ingrid is a might-have-been for Elsa, and thus has to go bad, but this still didn't really work emotionally for me.
Otoh I was delighted by the Will Scarlet & Robin Hood reunion in The Snow Queen (I wonder how it works for people who haven't seen the spin-off, btw?) and subsequent team-up in Breaking Glass. And v. v. amused about Will's remark re: being into evil queens (just tell him about Anastasia already, Will). I mean, considering the Mary Margaret-David-Kathryn triangle of amnesiac doom was the weakest part of season 1, no question about it, and I am not keen on a repeat with other players, but the show keeps bribing me both with the Will & Robin scenes and with the Snow & Regina scenes in Breaking Glass which were as opposed to the Snow and Regina scene in the season opener not cut but present and absolutely adorable, and dammit, I loved those, and they were directly related, so I can't dislike this plot yet. Also since Marian is frozen as opposed to Kathryn Robin hasn't lied to her, unlike amnesiac David, and hopefully will inform her of the truth once she's saved. (Which btw I'm very certain now she will be, beause Anna and Christoph got frozen in the past, and there's no way this show is going to let Anna and Christoph be dead. Thawing all around will happen. ) Which will still suck for Marian but be better than being lied to. Also Robin is doing something constructive re: Regina's fear of villain predestination (leading to the Will team up I get bribed with) and demonstrates to her that the book isn't prophecy but a multiverse volume, which means free will exists. This is commendable active and constructive, as opposed to amnesiac! David in season 1 who only kept dithering.
(BTW, I also think this means what I already guessed - the book - while possibly created in the past by someone in as much as the physical form is concerned - is written not by one particular author but by the characters themselves, a very meta comment on storytelling. I.e. Regina is responsible for both her bad choices and her good ones, and for her own happiness.)
Speaking of Regina: the Breaking Glass two parter, which as opposed to The Snow Queen I loved, had some great scenes for her. With Henry (now reading Marvel comics starring Wolverine with your kid is true maternal dedication!), with David and Snow, and with Snow alone. The "You know what my greatest regret is?" David: "The countless innocent lives you destroyed?" and Regina after a glare saying that it is gaslighting Henry once he figured out the truth was both funny and great character stuff. Because Regina while doing currently much better in the villain redemption stages than her old teacher still, and that's realistic, WOULD care about what she did to people she cares about (and Henry is heading that short list, always) in a way she doesn't yet about what she did to strangers. And it's a great reminder by the show that in s1 Henry had a really good reason to distrust Regina and her love for him, which not so coincidentally changed once she stopped exactly this type of behavior. Another layer of that scene is that Regina is giving David and Snow parenting advice in this scene - which they accept. That this is believable says such a lot about how far everyone has come.
As for the Regina and Snow scenes, I know I'm biased, but I loved them to bits. Snow had been the first to notice Regina noticing Robin (which Regina did before spotting the tattoo!), so it's not surprising she puts two and two together now, but again, it says a lot that Regina talks with her about not just the Robin situation - with Snow ruefully mentioning her own affair with a married man - but about her predestination issues as well, and Snow responds as she does about her own flaws and capacity for darkness, and belief in hope.
The other great conversation in that two parter was between Emma and Rumplestilskin in the mansion. It's probably the most honest conversation he's had with anyone in a long while (mutual snarling with Hook doesn't count), and while there is still a gigantic lie of omission in it (i.e. he doesn't tell her that what he's prepared won't just strip her of magic but will swallow her hole), everything he does say is true, and self aware. Unless in extremis (as in the Peter Pan situation mid s3), he's simply not capable of giving up power, being who he is. That conversation reminded me that Emma and Gold had some great scenes together in s1 and s2, and made me hope the show will pair them up again. Not least because while he's confiscated Emma's cell phone with Hook's messages, she's found to figure out just what he's done more recently sooner or later.
Speaking of Hook: life just continues to have it in for him. Mind you, given the Graham and Aurora precedents, a person without their heart and not under a direct command by whoever holds their heart is still able to act and speak on their own initiative (Aurora asking to be locked up so Cora can't use her further, Graham back in the Enchanted Forest helping Charming and in present day slowly figuring out the truth plus falling for Emma), and I hope the show remembers that. Though I also assume Rumplestilskin took the precaution to order Hook not to speak to anyone about this. Btw, even for Rumplestilkin and Hook scenes, their scene in front of the mansion had an extra nastiness, with Gold truly rubbing it by bringing up Milah.
When Hook called Emma from Gold's shop, I was hoping Belle was there and overheard him, but no such luck. Unless it'll be revealed she was in the next episode?
As for the Elsa, Ingrid, Anna flashbacks: my objection re: Ingrid's sudden power command and plotting ability from above not withstanding, I liked them a lot. Elsa believing Anna over Ingrid but pretending not to in order to trick Ingrid, Ingrid deciding that her misery was due to her sisters not having had powers so the solution were sisters with powers and embracing your inner monsters, it all worked for me, and as a bonus, I got the use of the Andersen fairy tale splinter/shard, on Anna, in a way that tied with the mirror Belle from some episodes ago. What Anna-with-splinter said to Elsa wasn't invented (anymore than what mirror!Belle told Belle): not being given any explanations by Elsa or her parents, she must have felt deserted and punished by Elsa's withdrawal as a child. The distortion lies in the mirror shard not allowing any other emotions.
Oh, and thank you, Christoph, for pointing out before that that the royal family of Arendelle's way of rather going for the mindwipe than face their problems is, err, not constructive. Ingrid is another case in point, what with the memory taking from Elsa so they can have a fresh start and presumably on Emma for a similar reason. (Though how Ingrid is able to do that through an urn when it has nothing to do with snow powers is beyond me, see above re: utter inconsistency about just how/when Ingrid learned to control her powers and some other magic besides.)
New unseen player the sorceror, with strong hints he's actually identitical with the apprentice: I have no opinion other than the obvious continuity problem if he can just open portals to our world and Rumplestilkin's centuries long quest. But I'm willing to wait for further developments on that one.
