Alias, and other stuff

[selenak]

So, I finally managed to get my hands on the first season of Alias, and am up to the episode which ends with Sydney seeing her face sketched by Rambaldi.

Initial impressions: not quite at the level of a Joss Whedon show, but worth watching nonetheless. Clearly, this is James Bond spying, not John Le Carré spying, meaning there are great spytech toys and lots of prettiness, not middle-aged disillusion and disgust for one's cause. Or rather, of course Sydney is disgusted with SD6 but because it's not the real CIA; she does not question that the real CIA (tm) are the good guys. Though that conversation between Sloane and Jack in which Sloane brings up his first time at the White House and how he felt that day has that Le Carréian flair.

I like the way the backstory of Sydney's parents is used as a running red thread; even if I hadn't been spoiled about the existence of SpyMommy, I would have guessed that accident story couldn't have been the real thing. Meanwhile, the relationship between Jack and Sydney interests me far more than the one between her and Vaughn. Actually, about every relationship Sydney has interests me more than the one with Vaughn - Sloane doing that "I see you as my daughter" thing is fascinating (she hates him, he gives the open approval Jack withholds for a long time, and then she's flabbergasted to find out he would have left her go in that "find the mole" scenario). I like her partner Dixon, but fear for his life as he doesn't get mentioned in random lj entries. Will is obviously her Xander, and likeable with the ability of being a jerk at times (to his assistant Jenny - I'd have kicked him out of that car, too).

I'm not really sure I buy the premise of every secret service being obsessed with good old Rambaldi's visions, but hey. I's no more far-fetched than the thousands of prophecies that creep up on BTVS and AtS.

***

I also watched another episode of Scrubs. I think I can guess now whom sabine101 slashed, but wonder whether I should read the story now or wait a few more episodes.

***

Speaking of slash: judging by the comments I got for that little silliness a couple of days ago, there is a market for Quark/Brunt. You shouldn't encourage me like that, people...

***

On a more serious level: I remain impressed by the quality of the ship_manifesto essays. Well, most of them. No bashing one 'ship to set up another, and no demonization of characters to promote one 'ship, which are two of the more annoying traits that creep up among fervent 'shippers of any calibre (het, gen, whatever) in any fandom. Though I was amused to see one objections, in the comments, to Vimes/Vetinari on the grounds of them being "old". Made me want to found a community celebrating relationships between middle-aged and old folk (which tend to be more interesting because of all the history anyway): Xavier and Magneto, Londo and G'Kar, Londo and Timov, Winn and Dukat, Giles and Ethan, and I'm sure that once I've watched more Alias I'll include Jack & KGB wife, and Jack and Sloane. And yes, why not Vimes and Sybil, and Vimes and Vetinari.

Comments

[likeadeuce.livejournal.com]

"Alias" didn't hold my interest after the first few discs of Season 1 -- I would watch the Jack & Sloane show, though, no question. The main thing "Alias" did for me was spawn a fantasy about post-"Chosen" Faith doing secret missions for the reassembling Watchers' Council -- with Riley Finn, now a Council/government liasion-double agent as her controller.

Though maybe that's just me.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

He. Entertaining idea, though I wonder whether Faith, even post-Chosen, could stand working for a huge organization for a long time...

(Have now watched another episode, and believe me, the Jack & Sloane scenes get more and more.)

[likeadeuce.livejournal.com]

yeah, I have to figure out how they'd blackmail Faith into working for them -- still, she'd look awesome in all those dresses and wigs.

I'll have to give Alias another go -- though I'll probably need to start at the beginning to catch up with everything I forgot.

Part of the problem is that I was largely spoiled when I started watching it, and now I'm even more spoiled because I tried to watch part of the most recent season. I wonder if Vaughn is toast in the near future, seeing as Garner has dumped Vartan in real life?

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Judging by merely the first season, I wouldn't miss Vaughn, but I don't think the private lives of the actors is particularily relevant to the tv show. I mean, DS9 had Siddig el Fadil and Nana Visitor getting together in RL while the show was running, but they never made any attempt to match Kira with Bashir on screen (thankfully, since it wouldn't have made sense for the characters).

[rozk.livejournal.com]

'Alias' is OK in its first season, but gets staggeringly better for me later on thanks to the introduction of a series of strong women characters both long-term (Spymommy, Lauren) and short-term (Fay Dunaway's character) and to the increasing complication of Sydney's heavy Freudian issues. The Rambaldi stuff gets weirdly more plausible in that some of his prophesies/gadgets are so powerful that, yes, I guess intelligence communities would take an interest.

As a person older than most of the older people in shows - I would have been a year or so ahead of Giles at Oxford, say - it sometimes freaks me that people in fandom assume that either older people don't have sex, or, if they do, it should never be talked about. Here is a point for them to ponder - thirty years of sexual experience does not mean you get worse at it... Giles and Ethan, Jack and Irina and Sloane - these are people who know what they want and how to get there, and have known it for quite a long time.
And the vampires in the Buffyverse are, whatever they look like, so much older than any of them.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Fay Dunaway? This show really excels in stunt casting. (Though Quentin Tarrentino's character was a bit too obvious for me.) Looking forward to meeting Spymommy here.

Here is a point for them to ponder - thirty years of sexual experience does not mean you get worse at it... Giles and Ethan, Jack and Irina and Sloane - these are people who know what they want and how to get there, and have known it for quite a long time.

Exactly. I don't get the age taboo in fanfic, either. Give me experience over youthful fumblings any time. Though you can blame some of the preference for The Young And Pretty on the TV origins, I suppose. Forget the forced Kirk/Uhura kiss in TOS and the Jadzia/Lenara kiss in DS9 - the big taboo Star Trek really broke was when it had Louise Fletcher as Kai Winn, as a woman around 60 and not pretending to be younger, have and enjoy a sexual relationship with great on screen chemistry. (This might have been done for male characters before, but not for women.)

[mogigraphia.livejournal.com]

Sweetest Fruit (http://www.moracle.co.uk/sweetest/) is meant to be a celebration of older slash couples, although so far I've got no further than Ethan/Giles and Erik/Charles. Holmes/Watson will be my next archive, I think.

I'm not sure how popular a community for older couples would be, although eye candy communities such as vintage_meat give me hope. I'd certainly join it if you set it up (or indeed, set it up myself if there was interest and you didn't want to, as I know your comment wasn't necessarily 100% serious.)

Give me experience over youthful fumblings any time. -- quite.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the two links! As for setting up a community (which should include the women as well as the men), the thing is, I just don't have the time for managing one. I'd volunteer for essays, though.

[illmantrim.livejournal.com]

I have watched Alias on and of and appreiacte4 tyhe humor it injects into what should be a xdramatic thing, but they create a patterned and rich environment

[buffyannotater.livejournal.com]

I think you will absolutely adore the second season. The relationship triangle between Syd, Jack, and Irina (SpyMommy) is so rich and compelling that it is impossible to take your eyes away from it. And the spy stuff actually works as a perfect metaphor for the disconnection and betrayal that any "normal" family with a divorced/estranged spouse/mother/father might go through. It's also the season where J.J. Abrams breaks all the rules...twice. Also, as it continues on, it becomes more and more sci-fi, which ya know I love, even as the characters continue to gain more and more depth. I personally do like Syd and Vaughan's relationship (one of the few that makes my heart pitter-pat, although not nearly as high as the best Buffy 'ships or Crichton/Aeryn), but he doesn't get any really meaty character stuff until very late in S3.

Or rather, of course Sydney is disgusted with SD6 but because it's not the real CIA; she does not question that the real CIA (tm) are the good guys.

Don't worry, there's moral ambiguity a plenty a' comin'. ;-)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Don't worry, there's moral ambiguity a plenty a' comin'. ;-)

That's good to know. Though I hope they won't limit it to the FBI. (It amuses me that in a show or movie centring on FBI agents, CIA agents are bound to be either the bad guys or at the very least the interfering guys, and now in this show it seems to be vice versa.)

I finished the first season today and now am frustrated the second isn't in my hands so I could continue watching and finally meet Irina...

[kathyh]

I'm in the very strange position of only having seen Season 3 of Alias. We've got Season 1 on DVD but haven't got round to watching it yet.

Actually, about every relationship Sydney has interests me more than the one with Vaughn

Absolutely. They bored me to tears in Season 3 to the extent that I was actively rooting for other people :::cough:::Lauren:::cough:::. I'm not sure she was supposed to end up more interesting than Syd, but she did (and I'd better not say anymore).

I'm not really sure I buy the premise of every secret service being obsessed with good old Rambaldi's visions

I don't either. I kept telling J it was the McGuffin but I'm starting to think we're supposed to take the premise seriously.

[buffyannotater.livejournal.com]

Absolutely. They bored me to tears in Season 3 to the extent that I was actively rooting for other people :::cough:::Lauren:::cough:::. I'm not sure she was supposed to end up more interesting than Syd, but she did (and I'd better not say anymore).

Oh, Syd's a very interesting character. Just unfortunately not so much in S3. One of the main problems even J.J. Abrams has with S3 is that they lost the character.

[kathyh]

I'm glad it wasn't just me that thought that all the satellite characters were more interesting than the main one. It feels a little strange to be rooting for the "wrong" person.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Lauren is not in season 1 at all, so I can't comment on her. Sydney is interesting in season 1, though not the most interesting character on the show, and as I said, I'm really intrigued by her relationships with her father and with Sloane, and like her friendships with Will and Dixon (yay for more m/f friendships on TV!). Vaughn, though, does not interest me at all so far. They set up some "your parent killed my parent" angst between him and Syd, but given that I'm a Jossverse veteran, that just doesn't cut it.

Well

[natoth-muse.livejournal.com]

Well... There is one good news.
I am going to lead all the same.
It will be Saturday-Sunday( 2-3, October) on my time( ) in my rp-lj natoth_muse. More precisely, it will be Saturday (day) and Sunday(night) on NA central time zone.


Muses and muns, you are welcome! I think, we may tell much each other...

Re: Well

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Thank you, I'll try to be there, and the Ambassador will as well!

[wanderlustlover]

Hey, this is Manda/Wanderlustlover, from commenting on your fic in fanfiction.net. Just to clear up who to random person commenting is.

I kinda love Alias, but I loved it a lot more once we hit season two. It's so drastically about the family ties that bind, no matter how hard you want to tear them apart. You will probably love it better than number one, which is in so many ways just a massive lead up to that season.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Hello there. And I wish I could watch season 2 now that I've finished 1. Must find someone who'll lend it to me....

[kasidy-yates.livejournal.com]

Quark/Brunt? @_@ Perhaps I am too easily disturbed. :)

I object to Vimes/Vetinari not because of the age but because I don't think they'd do it. Vetinari wouldn't want anyone to have any kind of hold over him, and sleeping with Vimes would give Vimes an edge over him in their ongoing sparring over how the city should be run. And Vimes is very happily married--and I enjoy the interplay between him and Sybil.

Same thing with Winn/Anjohl--if it weren't for the fact that this was bloody friggin' Dukat, I wouldn't have minded. Dukat in bed with the Kai just...bothered me. As it was meant to, I think.

I like Zek/Moogie--they're adorable. Although I don't find either of them attractive myself and *don't* want to know what they actually in the bedroom; maybe that's what bothers people about older-people sex. If you're not attracted to someone, reading about or watching them have sex isn't going to be fun. There are plenty of hot older people around, though.

But anyhow--Quark/Brunt?!

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Quark/Brunt: I was being somewhat flippant because of the responses this (http://www.livejournal.com/community/celestial_templ/8468.html) received (which does not contain sex, don't worry, check it out). However, given that fandoms tend to slash enemies quite often if they're a) human and b) good looking, I think it would have been written long agon if not for the fact both characters were Ferengi.*g*

Vimes being happily married to Sybil would indeed be my own objection (and the main reason why I, for example, don't read Bashir/O'Brien, or couldn't see Wash with anyone but Zoe on Firefly); but I could suspend disbelief for that old fanfic cliché, both participants locked up with each other and believing they're dying.

No, you weren't meant to think Winn and Dukat in bed was A Good Thing within the context of the show, but that doesn't mean it wasn't a good thing storyline-wise and in the meta context of TV presentations. For starters, they had great chemistry; secondly, the only thing which justifies the Pagh Wraith thing for me (a storyline which I dislike otherwise, plus Babylon 5 did it so much better by not going for the simple good/bad dichotomy with the Shadows and the Vorlons) is Winn's tragedy in season 7, providing meaty character stuff for her, and the Dukat affair is a big part of that.

[kasidy-yates.livejournal.com]

*reads fic and grins* That was great! (Awesome Brunt, and good thinking on Quark's part!) And you know, you're right--if they *were* anything but Ferengi, they'd be an "OMG I hate you let's have sex!" couple all over fandom. :)

Hah! Finally, someone who doesn't think O'Brien's stifled in his marriage to Keiko and *really* just wants to get it on with Bashir. Not that there's anything wrong with Bashir, and not that O'Brien would be incapable of appreciating him. Just that there are too few happily-married people, in fandom and elsewhere, and slagging off a perfectly good canon relationship just so people can have hawt slash sex is...cheap and stupid, to me. I spend the whole fic going, "What about Keiko?" instead of thinking how hot the guys are. (And I'm a Bashir fangirl, and think O'Brien rocks.)

I never liked or identified with Winn until those episodes in Season 7, but when she found out that it was the *Pah-wraiths* she'd been talking to and not the Prophets, and started calling to the Prophets to forgive her but they wouldn't, and Kira says, "You need to drop the Kai-ship" and she's all, "But why? Bajor needs me..." Whoa. All of a sudden my heart was breaking for her.

And yeah--when they were being all lovey-dovey I wished that he *wasn't* an evil manipulative undercover bastard, because they looked so sweet. Which made it all the more disturbing, of course. Excellent TV, as you say.

on O'Brien

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Oh, absolutely, we're in agreement there. Besides, we actually have an on-screen canon indication on how he'd react when feeling attracted so someone other than Keiko, in Looking for Par'Mach in all the wrong places, when he's somewhat drawn to Kira due to living with her. And his reaction is not to jump into bed with the person in question but to - successfully - do everything to avoid temptation. O'Brien's loyalty (to his friends AND to his wife) is a quintessential part of his character, and I think to carry on an affair with his best friend behind his wife's back would seem as extremely dishonourable to him.

Re: on O'Brien

[kasidy-yates.livejournal.com]

Oh, I was SO proud of Miles and Kira in that episode! The temptation was obviously very real, but they were obviously just as horrified at it, and despite the definite attraction managed not to actually act on it. Go them!! Am sick and tired of stories where sexual attraction is the *only* factor considered, and nothing else seems to matter except "oooh, hot person, let's shag!" Because it's not like that in real life--or, at least, if you *do* cheat on your spouse or whatever in real life, you'll have all sorts of complications.

I love O'Brien...he's such a normal and good man. Maybe not as hot as Bashir, or as brilliant, or anything, but he's genuinely good and kind and very, very good at what he does. Plus he knows how to tease Bashir about his genetic enhancements without it sounding mean. And he's a great dad...yeah. O'Brien fangirling, for sure. :)