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selenakStill in a mood for Middle Earth, not least because the craziest twist in either book or movie verse makes more sense than British politics right now. (Yep, it’s still that painful „watching a friend commit a long, drawn out suicide by drinking themselves to death“ feeling.)
So, on to fiction, where people behave in less lethally farcical ways. You know, just a trivial matter but I couldn’t help but notice: in fanfiction, Kili and Fili address Thorin with „Uncle“ all the time and refer to him as „Uncle Thorin“, ditto with Frodo and „Uncle“, „Uncle Bilbo“ etc. Whereas in canon: the movies have use Frodo „Uncle“ as an address precisely once (in the „Unexpected Journey“ opening flashfoward) , versus „Bilbo“ at all other occasions (Fellowship and Return of the King), and he never refers to him as „Uncle Bilbo“. (Nor does anyone else. Sam says „Mr. Bilbo“, Merry and Pippin mention him as „Bilbo“ or „the old Hobbit“.) In the books, it’s „Bilbo“ all the way. As for Kili and Fili, as far as I recall in the book their biological relation to Thorin is only mentioned in the paragraph that brings up their deaths; in the movies, Fili uses „Uncle“ once – when pleading that Kili should not be left behind in Laketown – but it’s „Thorin“ otherwise from both brothers. (Fili calls „Thorin“ before the wounded Thorin regains consciousness near the end of „An Unexpected Journey“, Kili addresses him as „Thorin“ in his „what the hell, hero!“ speech in „Battle of the Five Armies“.
Now, at a guess, the reason for Frodo’s fanon constant „Uncle“ use is that Frodo, no matter at which point the story is set, tends to be written as younger than he is anyway, and definitely in pre-quest stories. (If you’re the woobie, you get infantilized.) As for Kili and Fili – maybe there’s a subconscious assumption that calling their uncle by his name is too informal for a hierarchical society? Too modern? Whereas yours truly sees the constant „Uncle“-ing as the modern touch.
Now, some recs:
I measured out my life in tea spoons: lovely Bilbo character portrait from childhood to Valinor, using tea as the Macguffin
The well-travelled soul: and another excellent character portrait of Bilbo through the ages via short vignettes
Sunshine and Rain : this one has Elrond and Bilbo talk about Arwen and mortality; it’s a hurt/comfort & friendship story with Bilbo doing the comforting
Splintes and Bruises: more but less serious h/c, this one set after the first movie, when both Thorin and Bilbo have to be covered in bruises due to the state Unexpected Journey left them in.
Five Times Lindir Was Stressed By Dwarves and One Time He Smiled: to finish my recs on a light note, poor Lindir. (Elrond’s steward at Rivendell, previously known as Figwit in fandom. *g*) Also a good look at Bilbo in this early stage of the quest.
So, on to fiction, where people behave in less lethally farcical ways. You know, just a trivial matter but I couldn’t help but notice: in fanfiction, Kili and Fili address Thorin with „Uncle“ all the time and refer to him as „Uncle Thorin“, ditto with Frodo and „Uncle“, „Uncle Bilbo“ etc. Whereas in canon: the movies have use Frodo „Uncle“ as an address precisely once (in the „Unexpected Journey“ opening flashfoward) , versus „Bilbo“ at all other occasions (Fellowship and Return of the King), and he never refers to him as „Uncle Bilbo“. (Nor does anyone else. Sam says „Mr. Bilbo“, Merry and Pippin mention him as „Bilbo“ or „the old Hobbit“.) In the books, it’s „Bilbo“ all the way. As for Kili and Fili, as far as I recall in the book their biological relation to Thorin is only mentioned in the paragraph that brings up their deaths; in the movies, Fili uses „Uncle“ once – when pleading that Kili should not be left behind in Laketown – but it’s „Thorin“ otherwise from both brothers. (Fili calls „Thorin“ before the wounded Thorin regains consciousness near the end of „An Unexpected Journey“, Kili addresses him as „Thorin“ in his „what the hell, hero!“ speech in „Battle of the Five Armies“.
Now, at a guess, the reason for Frodo’s fanon constant „Uncle“ use is that Frodo, no matter at which point the story is set, tends to be written as younger than he is anyway, and definitely in pre-quest stories. (If you’re the woobie, you get infantilized.) As for Kili and Fili – maybe there’s a subconscious assumption that calling their uncle by his name is too informal for a hierarchical society? Too modern? Whereas yours truly sees the constant „Uncle“-ing as the modern touch.
Now, some recs:
I measured out my life in tea spoons: lovely Bilbo character portrait from childhood to Valinor, using tea as the Macguffin
The well-travelled soul: and another excellent character portrait of Bilbo through the ages via short vignettes
Sunshine and Rain : this one has Elrond and Bilbo talk about Arwen and mortality; it’s a hurt/comfort & friendship story with Bilbo doing the comforting
Splintes and Bruises: more but less serious h/c, this one set after the first movie, when both Thorin and Bilbo have to be covered in bruises due to the state Unexpected Journey left them in.
Five Times Lindir Was Stressed By Dwarves and One Time He Smiled: to finish my recs on a light note, poor Lindir. (Elrond’s steward at Rivendell, previously known as Figwit in fandom. *g*) Also a good look at Bilbo in this early stage of the quest.
no subject
Date: 2019-01-17 07:33 am (UTC)And the dwarves of Middle Earth are certainly clan-based (hence the importance of knowing one's lineage and the automatic respect for being born of an important lineage). It is important for dwarves to thus place each other in the lineage relationship.
On the other hand there is no denying that the Shire is very much English and covered by English law (descended from the Roman tradition. Lineage, save in matters of inheritance, is not so important. And Bilbo's status as one of the gentry (if not before then certainly after) definitely warrants a "Mister."
no subject
Date: 2019-01-17 08:35 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-01-18 06:03 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-01-19 01:00 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-01-20 02:16 pm (UTC)Re: making movieverse Frodo so young - in addition to the obvious big budget reason, there's the aspect of needing to convey the danger of the Ring. I mean, in the book, twenty years pass between Bilbo leaving the Shire and Gandalf returning to test by fire whether this is really the One Ring, and then there are enough months so Frodo can sell Bag Ends and pretend to move to Buckland before he finally leaves the Shire. This does not signal danger of life, limb and soul to the current day viewer. So cutting down the time line to "Birthday Party, Gandalf leaves to check on ring lore, returns immediately to test his theory, then sends Frodo on his way post haste" makes more sense... but it also means removing 20 years of maturing from Frodo's life.
There's one additional association coming with a young Frodo which works as an advantage - in the dvd cast audio commentary, Ian McKellen says that the direction Peter Jackson gave him for the scene where Frodo volunteers to take the ring to Mordor was "your son has just volunteered to serve in WWI". And there are WWI echoes in LotR - especially Mordor -, so making that association visual which works with a young man better than a middle aged one underlines that.