Avengers: Endgame (Film Review)

[selenak]

In which Scott Lang saves the universe, with a little help from his friends.



The movie starts surprisingly (or not) on a quiet note, not least because the drastic reducing of the cast per Snappening means there's room for a lot of character stuff in the first third before the action starts to gear up again, and even then I thought (imo as always) it kept a good balance between character scenes and action scenes. (Helped, again, by the fact the full gigantonormous ensemble isn't back until the last big battle sequence (and then each reappearing character got cheers in my theatre).

Mind you, there are about a thousand little supporting cast from various corners of the Marvelverse cameos spread through the film, some funny, some poignant. My absolute favouute was probably Edwin Jarvis (James D'Arcy version), not least because it was so unexpected. I had been pretty sure there would be a Peggy cameo (not least because the MCU producers, directors and writers love Hailey Atwell, as well they should), and Howard, too, was in my head listed as "more likely than not", but Jarvis, the non-AI one, had appeared exclusively on Agent Carter and thus wasn't even familiar to the movies-only watching crowd. But here he was, on the big screen! Definitely a big "awww" moment for me. Another set of cameos I appreciated far more than I had expected were of the Winter Soldier Hydra/SHIELD type (Alexander Pierce, Rumlow and Sitwell), because they provided the basics for an absolutely priceless Steve Rogers moment. Steve had not been very present in Infinity War, and what few character moments he'd had had more annoyed me ("we don't trade" became invalid the moment he expected all the Wakanda soldiers to lay down their lives for Vision while not accepting Vision wanting to give his life to prevent this), but he was terrific in this movie, and the gag with the Hydra crowd which I don't want to spoil worked both on a Watsonian level (it was Steve doing something clever) and on a Doylist one (because I very much suspect it was the Russons taking the piss off a certain recent very unpopular comics storyline. Most poignant cameo, otoh: Frigga. Whose scene with Thor was lovely and heartbreaking. (I know Natalie Portman said goodbye to the Marvelverse a while ago, but honestly, this worked to this movie's benefit because it felt right that Thor's big scene when revisiting his past should be with his mother, not Jane (or for that matter his father). "Wisest person in Asgard", indeed.

(On a similar note, Scott once he was out of the quantum realm and had found out what had happened looking for his daughter before looking for anyone else felt right. Antman and the Wasp had managed to sell me on Scott/Hope, but seriously, Cassie is his primary motivation. BTW, was the girl/young woman playing older Cassie indeed the previous little girl grown up, or did they recast?)

As you may have deduced from the above, everyone who'd guessed there would be time travel involved in the solution to the Snappening guessed correctly. Contrary to what I'd speculated, though, it's not used for a simple reset (i.e. so that the events of the previous movie never happened - they still happened) , and the most creative way time travel was used was Nebula's storyline. Which I loved. If Infinity War provided Zoe Saldana with a chance to shine, Endgame did so for Karren Gillan. And she did. Incidentally, those delightful Nebula & Tony road space trip stories written in the aftermath of Infinity War? Totally validated. Including him teaching her stupid games and the both of them engineering together. But Nebula's story wasn't about Tony, it was about herself and her sister, as it should have been. Her coming face to face with her younger self underlined both how she'd grown and how deeply her damage went, and that she turned out to be able to do for a younger Gamora what Gamora had done for her in the second Guardian movie made for a great symmetry. (I had gone into the movie thinking that Nebula should be the one to kill Thanos but probably wouldn't be; going out, in retrospect I was more satisfied by her saving Gamora (and symbolically defeating her own past) instead.) Oh, and some more Nebula moments I adored: bonding with Rhodey over losing body parts, and the way she and Rocket quietly sat together in the initial reunion on Earth early in the movie, with him touching her hand.

On to the darker stuff: two of the original Avengers die in order to undo the dusting and to save the universe from Thanos & Co. forever, respectively. But as opposed to, say, the death in the ST: Discovery s2 finale, these two felt earned, and I say this as someone who loves both characters in question. Mind you, not only had the second, final death been telegraphed in Infinity War already, which gave me time to adjust to the thought, but it does wrap up this decade of Marvel movies with how it started. It's the first of the two deaths, though, that I'm certain will be the controversial one. The reason why this one, too, worked for me is that I can't see the character making any other choice, it was in line with what the previous movie had established about the soul stone, and it brought things full circle with said character's story in Avengers.

Not dark, but probably controversial in terms of shipping: Steve's ending, which wasn't lethal, but definitely excludes a lot of him/other people scenarios. It hadn't occured to me until a few seconds before it happened, but of course he would, and that's another creative way beyond "fixing the snappening" in which the central gimick of the movie was used.

Could be controversial but I don't think so: Carol hardly being in the movie beyond tilting the battle against Thanos, twice. Not surprising, given it was filmed before her own movie was, and she's given a good reason for not staying on Earth in between but leaving it at two emergency visits. Probably more welcome than controversial: her sporting the short hair cut from current comics after the five year time jump.

Bit of dialogue that got the most nerdy cheer: the Scott-Rhodey-Bruce debate about time travel by naming just about every time travel movie franchise in existence. Incidentally, I wasn't completely kidding with my first line: Scott saving the universe - he's the one who has the key idea of how to bring everyone (dusted) back.

Possibly my favourite bit of dialogue:

Younger Gamora (re: Peter Quill and her older self): Him? Seriously?
Nebula: The choice was him or a tree.

Most heartrending "I know I'm being manipulated but what the hell, I'm all there for it" moment: Tony and undusted Peter Parker. Also the much earlier reveal that Tony kept a photo of Peter and himself around for those five years, and the implication that Peter is a key reason to agree to what he then does.

Unexpectedly poignant moment: Natasha's and Clint's "we're far from Budapest" giddy delight at being in outer space when it hits them how crazy and fantastic that actually is.

And the "this was not popular on BSG, what makes you think it will be popular here?" award goes to: Thor, like Lee Adama in the first six episodes of season 3 of BSG, having aquired a lot of weight. I mean, it does make sense as the result of five years of beer drinking and brooding without any physical exercise, but as shirtless Lee and shirtless Thor were previous favourite siights in their respective fandoms, this also had a bit of nah, nah on the part of producers in it. Otoh, the audience I was with seemed to love it, so what I know? And the scene with Frigga I mentioned earlier was played completely straight. As was his scene with Valkyrie much later after the dusting has been undone. (Valkyrie wasn't dusted at all, it's just that her earlier appearance was sans Thor.)

Ha! My headcanon is validated moment: In addition to the Tony and Nebula road trip, Howard Stark, nervous about impending fatherhood, observing in 1970 that he'd rather have a daughter than a son because with a daughter, there's less danger she'd turn out to be like himself, with "becoming like me" the last thing he wants for his kid. (Echoing the "I wanted to be like you"/"And I wanted you to be better" moment between Peter and Tony from Homecoming.) Not that Howard's correct about sons and daughters, of course; in a movie where parent/child relationships (both biological and not) get ample display, the most dysfunctional and abusive involve Thanos and his two "daughters", while on the other end of the scale of parenting you have Scott and Clint, dedicated dads to their daughters (and in Clint's case, son as well), Frigga, freeing her son from his crippling guilt... and, as an example of how to finally break a cycle, Tony with his and Pepper's daughter. Meaning: it's the parent's behaviour that makes the difference, not the gender of the kid, duh.

In conclusion: it worked for me as an epic finale to this phase of the Marvelverse. But I think I'll avoid much of online fandom for a while, since there's bound to be a lot of disagreement on that from many a fan, and I'd rather enjoy the sense of being at peace for a while longer.

Comments

[andraste]

I just got home from seeing it!

I am genuinely impressed at how much they managed to jam in there, even given the length of the film. The only regular who didn't appear somehow, somewhere was Paul Bettany, which is pretty extraordinary given the parameters. That PERFECT use of Steve saying 'hail Hydra' was definitely one of my favourite parts.

Others included: Jarvis! Neat character combinations I'd never have thought of, like Rhodey and Nebula! An impromtu A-Force forming to help Carol get the gauntlet through the crowd! Every single thing Peter said! Pepper finally deciding that if you can't beat them, you might as well join them! And the look on Thanos' face when all those portals open and he actually experiences doubt for what may be the first time ever.

Another great thing about Scott Lang in this film: he appears to be the only person who paid attention during any of those time travel movies. (OK, Bruce did fine, but he was lucky enough to meet someone that already had prophetic knowledge of the future that he could have a sensible conversation with. Nobody else managed to keep their part of the timeline intact - I mean, somewhere out there there's apparently a Loki who grabbed the Tesseract and ran off. Which I guess may explain why he's getting his own show ...)

[selenak]

I was thrilled to see Pepper in the Rescue armor! And yes, word about Scott having paid attention to all those movies, concent wise. Presumably Peter would have, too, but he was out of commission for the relevant debates.

re: Loki, that this explains how he can get his own show despite not having been resurrected wasn't something that occured to me until after the movie was over, but it totally does. Incidentally, in a way he and Gamora are in similar positions to Thor and Nebula & Quill respectively - they're a few years short of crucial shared experience. Mind you, that's true for half of the universe now. (I suppose that's why Peter and Ned are still in high school, and given MJ is still the same age in the trailer for Far from Home, she must have been snapped and resurrected, too. Thoughtful of Thanos to keep them all in the same age range.

The Ancient One was another character I hadn't expected but was delighted to see. And yes, Bruce lucked out there. Speaking of Sorcerors Supreme, the look between Tony and Stephen Strange when Strange raises his finger and Tony realises what he must do, and that Strange has known ever since the vision trip, that was great silent acting on both parts. Conveying all that needed to be said to the audience.

As for "Hail Hydra", I was nearly on the floor. Well played, Russos. Well played.

ETA: Oh, and what do you want to bet that this is how Hank Pym's paranoia about his work started? Was v.v. amused at Michael Douglas with "Streets of San Francisco" shaggy hair...

[andraste]

One of the many nice things about Peter being un-dusted: the possibility of Ant-Man and Spider-Man finally hanging out! (I don't think being on opposite sides of destroying an airport or the same side of punching Thanos' army quite counts.) I think the bug-themed heroes will get along really well, and Peter would definitely have respected Scott's Back to the Future rules more than everyone else.

Mind you, that's true for half of the universe now. (I suppose that's why Peter and Ned are still in high school, and given MJ is still the same age in the trailer for Far from Home, she must have been snapped and resurrected, too. Thoughtful of Thanos to keep them all in the same age range.

One thing I hope that Homecoming touches on is how chaotic having half the population of the universe vanish for five years and then pop back is going to be. There are going to be people who moved on and remarried who suddenly have two spouses, younger siblings who are now older than their big brothers and sisters, and people who arrive back from being dissolved only to find that their loved ones graduated or moved or had another child or died during the five years they were gone. (Honestly, Disney's new streaming channel could get a whole show out of it. They've been talking about a Damage Control adaptation for years, maybe this is their moment ...)

The Ancient One was another character I hadn't expected but was delighted to see.

That was the best cameo! The whole time Bruce was on his way, I was like 'but Stephen isn't at the Sanctum yet! Surely they're not going to have him fight Daniel Drumm, an obscure supporting character from Doctor Strange???' But no! And there wasn't even any fighting necessary.

Speaking of Sorcerors Supreme, the look between Tony and Stephen Strange when Strange raises his finger and Tony realises what he must do, and that Strange has known ever since the vision trip, that was great silent acting on both parts. Conveying all that needed to be said to the audience.

That was another of my favourite moments, and indeed great acting. I am satisfied that Strange's plan really does make sense in the end. Depriving Thanos of the Time Stone turned out to be less important than keeping Tony Stark alive in the long run.

As for "Hail Hydra", I was nearly on the floor. Well played, Russos. Well played.

I'm not saying it was worth that whole gobmackingly stupid and offensive comics storyline to get her, but ... almost worth it.

ETA: Oh, and what do you want to bet that this is how Hank Pym's paranoia about his work started?

Yes, that would make sense! I mean, concluding that Stark and/or S.H.I.E.L.D. either took his Pym Particles or failed to adequately protect them is pretty logical under the circumstances.

[selenak]

Here's hoping for a bug-themed getting together,indeed. Though if Peter also gets to meet Luis, there will not be a second of silence for days!

It would be nice if we got some screen canon on the confusion those five missing years cause, but I very much suspect that Far from Home will stay away from that issue, since the trailer is so determinedly cheerful.

I am satisfied that Strange's plan really does make sense in the end. Depriving Thanos of the Time Stone turned out to be less important than keeping Tony Stark alive in the long run.

Quite. And the more I think about it, the more satisfying it is, because it really couldn't have been done by any of the other main characters still around at that point. It depended on the variables of a) the glove having been built by Tony, using nano technology, b) Tony being able to control said Nanotechnology, which we've seen him do repeateadly, and thus c) him being able to get the stones under Thanos' nose. Steve or Stephen or any of them would have been as ready to sacrifice their lives wielding the stones, absolutely, but they wouldn't have been able to control the nanotech, and thus Thanos would have been able to snap again for real.

I mean, concluding that Stark and/or S.H.I.E.L.D. either took his Pym Particles or failed to adequately protect them is pretty logical under the circumstances.

No kidding. And Howard denying it would have been singularly unconvincing.

[andraste]

Though if Peter also gets to meet Luis, there will not be a second of silence for days!

Oh no! I am no envisioning a montage of Scott and other innocent bystanders being subjected to this for hours.

It would be nice if we got some screen canon on the confusion those five missing years cause, but I very much suspect that Far from Home will stay away from that issue, since the trailer is so determinedly cheerful.

True - although we should at least find out if May got snapped or spent five years missing her nephew. (For her sake, I hope it was the former.)

Steve or Stephen or any of them would have been as ready to sacrifice their lives wielding the stones, absolutely, but they wouldn't have been able to control the nanotech, and thus Thanos would have been able to snap again for real.

Tony really is the perfect man in the perfect place at the perfect time - the Marvel universe has other people who could make the time machine work or build a gauntlet or snatch the Stones or make them work, but all at the same time right then and there? It had to be Tony.

Another thought: when Stephen says "I'm sorry, it was the only way" in Infinity War, he's not really apologising for giving Thanos the Time Stone, but for letting Tony die because he checked everything and nothing else will work.

And Howard denying it would have been singularly unconvincing.

Especially when Hank demands to know where he was at the time and Howard's alibi turns out to be a certain Mr. Potts who doesn't exist ...

[selenak]

If Peter ever makes it to San Francisco and meet Luis, you just know Scott will beg Hank to invent really effective ear muffins, is all I'm saying. Incidentally, here's a crossover thought: Peter and Luis versus The Gentlemen (from Buffy). Luis gets Giles' job of bringing everyone up to speed in a non verbal way...

Agreed re: May. Though I must say the five years gap is meaty fanfic fodder. BTW: if May was snapped, are she and Peter currently homeless, given their apartment would presumably have been rented to other parties? (I mean, I'd say Tony paid the rent, but he had no hope of Peter coming back until a few days before his death, so there's no reason why he would have done, if May was snapped as well.)

Another thought: when Stephen says "I'm sorry, it was the only way" in Infinity War, he's not really apologising for giving Thanos the Time Stone, but for letting Tony die because he checked everything and nothing else will work.

Yes. And as it turns out what he said to Tony earlier - that he'd let Peter and him die if he had to - became literally true as well.

Howard: Look, if I'd want to steal your invention, I would provide myself with a better alibi.
Hank: So you admit you want to steal it?!?
Howard: *rolls eyes, takes off to visit wife and newborn son, is a bit distracted from newborn son by wondering who the hell Howard Potts was and why he seemed so familiar*

[andraste]

Luis gets Giles' job of bringing everyone up to speed in a non verbal way...

... and Peter is definitely the one making easily-misinterpreted hand-gestures.

BTW: if May was snapped, are she and Peter currently homeless, given their apartment would presumably have been rented to other parties?

On the one hand, there are half as many people, but on the other, that probably doesn't stop New York apartments from being desirable. I bet part of the reason those suburban streets look so empty is that whatever commuters were left moved further into the big citeis. I can only imagine this is going to create no end of legal disputes about who owns what.

[hypertwink]

I wonder which Gamora will show up in GOTG3, the OG one, the time-traveling one (although didn't she get dusted at the end as well?) or a new iteration. I mean, they kind of gave us the plot thread when we see Peter searching for Gamora at the end before he got into a pissing contest with Thor (who's basically a blond Volstagg at the moment).

And speaking of shows, I'm kinda excited for the Winterfalcap show, I hope it's the buddy road movie that they denied us in Cap 3.

[selenak]

Why should she have been dusted? On a Doylist level, this was their way to get Gamora back so that future Guardian movies could use the character again, and on a Watsonian one, I think Tony's command was more likely "Anyone fighting for Thanos: dust", and she wasn't.

[kernezelda]

I'm curious about Gamora, too--because since the stones were all returned to their point of theft, then Gamora is still killed by Thanos years afterward.

Except that since Thanos discovered the Avengers' plan before GOTG, then doesn't that mean he's vanished himself and all of his henchmen/armies/ships from that timeline? The stones have all been returned, but there's no Thanos, no Gamora, no Nebula or cronies to search for them, so no gauntlet, no snap.
An alternate timeline without Thanos and any subsequent consequences has now been created as of 2014 (the year Nebula was sent to). All of the planets devastated by Thanos since that point are fine in the new timeline.

So the timeline as of 2019 is now five years divergent from the new one created in 2014 with the sudden absence of Thanos, et al.

Gamora can still exist, because she's from the past, but now she only exists in the post-Snap timeline.

[selenak]

Considering the death of 2014!Nebula has no effect on 2019 (or rather, taking the five years into account, 2023) Nebula's continued existence, I think the movie means to imply the removal of Thanos & Co. in 2014 does not result in the 2018 disaster not having happened, either, see other post, but that people from one timeline can exist in another - i.e. Gamora from 2014 can be in 2023, Nebula continues to live in the timeline this movie is following despite 2014!Nebula's fate, and Thor still saw Loki be killed by Thanos as of the start of Infinity War despite 2012!Loki having made off with the Tesseract.

...Time travel plots and reason never are friends, is what I'm saying. (Well.I thought the Farscape ep in which they really can't bring the original timeline back and have to live with the nurses being killed etc. was logical, but other than that.

[hypertwink]

It's not a perfect movie, but it was a very satisfying movie to watch. Like they rewarded me for watching (and owning) all the movies and twigging on to little easter eggs and sly references that the Russos hid in there but I can see my mom (who watches these movies with me -- she's gonna watch next week because she's busy and I've had a few viewings under my belt) loving it even without getting everything they put in there.

I wonder if the Russos are GOT fans because Steve's last stand (which I really thought was gonna be his last) is very Battle of the Bastards Jon Snow vs the world, with the cheer-inducing, sob-filled appearance of everyone and their mother coming to the rescue.

One of my fave things is Pepper as Rescue. Also, everyone has been speculating about the Thanus theory before Endgame; it's good to know that Scott is still the hero of the actual story, even if it isn't...that lol

I love Tom Holland and his Peter but seriously, boy, shut up, his wife needs to talk to him before he dies.

[selenak]

Agreed, they've managed to on the one hand provide all those eager eggs but otoh the movie is entirely comprehensible if you've missed out on several Marvel entries. (I.e. for example: Jarvis from Agent Carter is a treat for the viewers of the show, including yours truly, but you don't have to recognize Howard's chauffeur (not least since Howard adresses him as Jarvis) in order to get the ending of the 1970 sequence.

Steve's (not) last stand: I'd say the chances are high the Russos are watchers.

Re: Peter Parker, babbling to the end: well, yes - and I was so relieved Pepper did get a moment - yet otoh, it's entirely ic for him, given he's not thinking clearly and has only been back among the living for an hour or so.

[niyalune]

I've seen the movie today and loved it, although I hadn't managed to sort out my thoughts as coherently as you have.

Great analysis! Like you, I was initialy disappointed by Nebula wasn't more involved in killing Thanos, but you make a good point about how satisfying it was to go back to the Gamora&Nebula relationship, albeit with the roles mirrored. And your paragraph about parents & children is very true.

The cameos really were awesome. My personal favorite was probably that blink-or-miss-it shot of Harvey Keener at the end. And not a cameo, exactly, but I loved that last scene with Valkyrie (she's a King!!!)

Re: Cassie Lang, she was recast, the younger actress is only 11. I find that the casting is very good, I also wondered for a second if it was the same person.

[selenak]

Harvey Keener: I managed to remain unspoiled for most of the movie but for this - that he'd be in it -, so I was on the lookout for him, otherwise I probably would have missed it. It's my headcanon now that he kept in contact with Tony, probably somewhat remotely (i.e. emails and plans for building things, and two or three visits over the years), but still.

Cassie Lang: thank you for the info! Yes, excellent casting.

[felis]

Harley actually! But anyway, I liked his cameo as well, because it was yet another little point made re: Tony as a mentor and as someone who looks towards the future and as someone who likes to give people opportunities, all of which I'm rather fond of. And now I'm sadly wondering who's going to make Peter's suits in the future. And Rhodey's for that matter. But speaking of suits, another great detail: Tony making Pepper a suit in their garage, and having a work station in their living room. Really nice way of showing their arc over the years, what with Tony's relationship with being Iron Man as a key point of contention.

[selenak]

Harley, right! One reason why I was always so annoyed to come across "Tony can't talk to children" fanon, because Iron Man III was one big refutation of that trope, starting with giving autographs to the kids in the diner and moving on to the entire plot line with Harley.

Future suits (and for Rhodey, prosthetics) made by...? At a guess, Shuri. Given Wakanda has opened its borders now. Though I wouldn't exclude Peter at least in a few years being able to design his own upgrades, and you know Pepper would provide him with the means. Since Bruce made it out alive and with mental facilities intact, he'd also be an option, but on a Doylist level I think they want to shift the entire MCU to the younger/later introduced characters now that the story of the original six is told (with the arguable exception of Thor in the Guardians franchise).

And speaking of younger characters: between Cassie, Clint's daughter and Morgan, I'm pretty sure Marvel is tentatively eyeing possibilities in ten years or so.

[likeadeuce]

I had to ask around to find out it was Harley because I was like 'are we just supposed to assume that lonely emo kid is a mystery person -- de-aged Loki? de-aged Tony?' But it makes sense Harley would be there.

[felis]

Lovely review, thank you. I'm still amazed that they pulled this off at all, bringing the threads together to an actual ending, but still telling a new and unpredictable story in this movie. Three hours which didn't drag, not easy to do, but IMO they used most of their time very well. So many little details and ideas that I appreciated, but without overcrowding things.

While I was initially surprised by how quickly they did the beginning story beats, it made sense and still hit the main emotional moments I wanted. And the following time-travel-infinity-stone-caper-story was a genius idea, because
a) it gave us expected and unexpected pairings on parallel missions, each with their own poignancy (Tony and Steve, first in 2012 and then in the 70s, and I loved all of it / Nat and Clint coming full circle / unexpected yet delightful Rhodey - Nebula moment ...),
b) it allowed for lovely callbacks to earlier movies and for revisiting the first Avengers one without making the whole thing feel self-indulgent,
c) it was just a fun plot,
and d) it gave us all the preparation scenes beforehand, which were lovely as well.

Re: short Carol appearances - I thought the things she did get to do were perfect (rescue Tony, punch spaceships, impress Peter :-D) and was therefore satisfied with how she was used, given that this was at its core the story of the original six. (While still leaving enough narrative space for others! Starting with Scott (actually liked him, biggest surprise for me given that I hadn't seen the Ant-Man movies) and ending with Nebula - great point about the role reversal between her and Gamora!)

Not usually a fan of big battle scenes, but that last one worked well enough and was deservedly epic. Also, the dramaturgy was nice, what with first Cap standing all alone, and then everybody showing up. And even there, they included all these little tid-bits, from the gauntlet relay they did to the reunion moments.

it brought things full circle with said character's story in Avengers

I'm coming around on this. When it first happened I thought they'd made exactly the wrong choice, but given how the two of them started out? I can see why they would go this route. (Also, they probably didn't want to go and kill both fathers of the original six.) But still, that one hurt. But then, I was dreading the soul stone moment ever since Infinity War established it, no matter who would have to go and get it. They did not weasel out of that one. So, Watsonian level all good. (I think my initial reaction was also due to Nat being the only woman on the original team, which, well. Too late.) Either way, I certainly loved all of her scenes before that.

And as a Tony fan? The possibility was of course on the table, but I did not know if I should expect them to actually go there. In the end, I basically loved every single moment of him on screen and given that I very much wanted him to be the one to put on the gauntlet (and knew for sure it would be the minute Cap picked up Thor's hammer), I can't really complain about the consequences. Broke my heart, but worked. And what a way to close an era with his final line. (Also, while RDJ has always been wonderful at playing him, he kind of took it to the next level in this one.)

[selenak]

it allowed for lovely callbacks to earlier movies and for revisiting the first Avengers one without making the whole thing feel self-indulgent

Yes, so much this. These kind of revisitations can feel like a cheap bottle show when done wrong, but this so much wasn't that.

Re: Natasha vs Clint as to whom to kill - well, there's no question as to whom I, personally, would have wanted to keep (Nat, of course), but within the story: here's no way she'd have let her best friend, who once was the one to bring her out of the assassin life, sacrifice himself, she'd been depicted as capable of outfighting him the two times we'd seen them fight (when he was under Loki's control in Avengers and in Civil War, when he needed Wanda); "neither" wasn't an option for her given they really needed the soul stone in order to bring back half the universe.

And what a way to close an era with his final line.. Indeed. In my cinema, the entire audience whispered it with him. I was prepared for death over retirement as a way for the character to go go out for a mixture of Doylist and Watsonian reasons - RDJ's contract being up again and him aging out of the plausible action hero age, and the fact Tony retired three times from superheroing already in universe and it never kept (once after Iron Man 3, once after Age of Ultron, once in this movie between his return to Earth and the gang showing up at his house), so him declaring "okay, that was it for me" at the end of this one would have carried neither emotional resonance or believability. But I wanted his last appearance to be a good one (not just in the sense of getting a good exit scene), and it really was. (There also was extra applause in the credits when his name appeared.)

[felis]

Nat and Clint: Agreed. As I said, on a Watsonian level, the Nat vs. Clint decision was completely in character, and good point about their previous hand-to-hand fights! I've also been thinking further about this and IMO, with the stakes for the soul stone established as they were, it HAD to come down to a choice between these two. Sending Steve and Tony would have been way too early, Bruce couldn't have been killed anyway, and other pairings wouldn't have had anywhere near the meaning or emotional resonance. Nat and Clint are equals, and a team, and they had that role reversal earlier in the movie, with Natasha pulling Clint out of his assassin ways, mirroring what he did for her. So it made sense to send these two for the soul stone.

[hannah]

I got back from seeing it. There was a lot of movie in this movie, and it delighted me consistently start to end.

Also, because I missed a few lines of dialog for the theater clapping and cheering so much: did Tony call Rocket "Rygel" at one point?

[ironymaiden]

pretty sure it was "Ratchet" like Ratchet & Clank which would fit with Tony's propensity for pop-culture nicknames.

[selenak]

I didn't hear Rygel, but then I could have misheard, and it's certainly not the last time that I've watched; will check on a second watching!

[ratcreature]

Could you explain to me how in the final battle Tony got the gems back into his gauntlet to use them after Thanos seemed to recapture them? I did not follow how that worked at all, and was really confused.

FWIW in my theater there were also cheers for Thor's belly, though more as a bit of a laugh line, so I don't think it was entirely a woke disregard of body image or six pack expectations of superhero characters or anything like that.

[kernezelda]

Since the gauntlet was made of Tony's nanotechnology, he was able to transfer the stones from that gauntlet to his own when he grabbed Thanos' fist.

[selenak]

What kernezelda said. BTW, this also retrospectively justifies Strange's decision to hand over the time stone to save Tony's life, because the role Tony performs in Endgame (building a working time machine - sorry, Bruce, but yours didn't -, creating a gauntlet for the stones to be worn using the same nano technology he used for the armor he wears at the start of Infinity War, controlling his tech from a distance (I think the first time we've seeen Tony do this was in Iron Man 3, for example when he had his armor build itself around Pepper to shield her during the Mandarin's attack on the Malibu house, and of course we've seen him do it often since) - and use the glove afterwards was something none of the other characters could have done.

[lynnenne]

My absolute favouute was probably Edwin Jarvis (James D'Arcy version)

Mine, too! I absolutely did not expect to see him in this film, and his character was always a DELIGHT in Agent Carter.

"Wisest person in Asgard", indeed.

She was, without a doubt, and I was so happy to see her imparting her wisdom to Thor.

Scott once he was out of the quantum realm and had found out what had happened looking for his daughter before looking for anyone else felt right. Antman and the Wasp had managed to sell me on Scott/Hope, but seriously, Cassie is his primary motivation.

100 percent agree. I think that's the thing that really sold me on Scott's character.

If Infinity War provided Zoe Saldana with a chance to shine, Endgame did so for Karren Gillan. And she did.

She was FANTASTIC. And yes to her bonding with Rhodey over losing body parts! I forgot about that moment until just now, but it was GREAT.

Younger Gamora (re: Peter Quill and her older self): Him? Seriously?
Nebula: The choice was him or a tree.

HAHAHAHA, forgot about that one, too! Perfect.

I agree that Nat's death felt in character for her, but I still want her back. Tony's death, OTOH, was a perfect way for his character to exit the franchise. I'm still sobbing over Pepper telling him, "You can rest now."

[selenak]

Since Thanos' vision of a young Gamora at the end of Infinity War can at least be interpreted as the killed-by-soul-stone people ending up in the soul stone, it occurs to me that a fanfic scenario where both Nat and older Gamora are alive post Endgame is actually viable: if we postulate that 2023 Thanos using the stones to destroy the stones still stands in the timeline (despite 2014 Thanos getting dusted). Maybe at the moment the stones were destroyed, including the soul stone, all souls captured in it were released. This post time travel includes Natasha, though she's currently stranded on Vormir without the possibility to return to Earth. Depending on the fanfiction writers preference, she can be picked up by Carol, the Guardians (with or without Thor), or parties unknown...

[felis]

Aw, I was about to promptly adopt your theory, but it was actually 2018 Thanos that destroyed the stones. So we'd need an additional timey wimey explanation at least. I'd certainly love to get some soul stone space magic, though. Could even be turned into a convoluted explanation for why the younger Gamora isn't there with the Guardians at the end of this movie, which puzzled me, but might be set-up for the next Guardian movie.

[likeadeuce]

Steve has to go back to Vormir to return the stone, right? He'd certainly TRY to get Natasha back. (Though I imagine if he had succeeded he would have mentioned it)

[likeadeuce]

I appreciate this review and felt much the same, just adding that Steve and Tony's understated moments of reconciliation were my favorite bits, along with Steve and Natasha's quiet moment together in the office and of course Tony + Howard.

Also I have a fic idea, as you might imagine, and would love to bounce something off you -- check your email :)

[daybreak]

You feel here how I felt after seeing the last Star Wars film. I think these decades-long series chapter ends really have to do with what the individual fan feels. I didn't feel much for these franchise. A bit, because Captain America was my first film in the series so I have a soft spot for Cap and Peggy.

I also like Thor because he's funny and real. I've gained some weight myself in the past ten years and not because of beer!

Points to you to mentioning Lee Adama's weight gain. I had almost forgotten that. Thor is okay, though. He always has 'the voice' if not the abs.

I also hope Gamora is okay wherever she landed.