January Meme: Hooked on Translations

[selenak]

cahn asked me: What Classics works (to be read in English translation) would you recommend to hook someone who doesn't know anything about it? (Aside from the Illiad/Odyssey/Aeneid -- but would also be open to interesting translations of those!) (And especially for someone who preferred the Aeneid to the Illiad and Odyssey?)

With the caveat that different things work for different people, and also my knowledge of good English translation is limited because I read most of those works in German (and/or had to translate them in school, like Cicero's speeches against Catilina and Sallust's work about the conspiracy), here are some recs I would go with. Note that they aren't literal translations but poetic ones, much like the Faust translation by Howart Brenton I recced to cahn where he had someone do the literal prose translation for him first so he could be sure about the literal meaning and then put it into verse. They're also by terrific poets, which means when you read these works in English, you get something of the visceral excitement and beauty of the originals, not a sense of dutiful bland dictionary (or worse, bowlderized) rendition.

1.) Ted Hughes: Tales from Ovid (i.e. a selection from Ovid's Metamorphoses). Praise, quotes and explanations why I think that's an awesome book to read here.

2.) Ted Hughes: Alkestis by Euripides. The last thing he ever published, shortly before his death, with a theme of personal relevance. Hughes and Euripides were as good a match as Hughes & Ovid. More praise and quotes here.

3.) Roz Kaveney: Catullus. Lots of well deserved praise and buying link here.

Now as I said elsewhere, I've been hearing good things about Emily Wilson's translation of the Odyssey, so it's definitely on my to read list, but I haven't gotten the chance to yet. And with Cicero's letters and speeches, Suetonius, Plutarch, Herodotus etc. I don't know any English translations, since, see above, I read them in German (or in Cicero's case translated some of the speeches in school and read the rest in German).

The other days

Comments

[selenak]

Excellent comparison. If you don't know who Fritz and who Heinrich were, and what their general relationship was, then Lehndorff's diary entry re: Marwitz isn't half as fun.

Without such detail as we will give you in a classics salon:

Cicero: as in the Roman politician, orator, writer. The high point of his political career was his consulate, and he didn't let anyone forget it. Self made man/Homo Novus (meaning he wasn't born into one of the old Roman noble families), though allying with the Optimates (which very loosely translates into the Roman Senate's conservative party.)

Catilina: was born into one of the old Roman families, ended up allying himself with the Populares (very loosely translates into the more progressive party in the Senate). Just how dastardly his career in between was is somewhat debated these days, since history is written by the victor, and if he really was the worst of the worst from the get go as Cicero later claimed, it's a bit surprising Cicero was entirely willing to represent him as a lawyer in one of the many scandals that happened in Catilina's earlier life, in this case, him being accused of getting it on with a Vestal. (This was lethally serious stuff; if found guilty, both Catilina and the Vestal would have been executed. Additional factor: the Vestal in question was Cicero's sister-in-law.) Cicero's legal representation in that case wasn't necessary, but some years later, he and Catilina ran for the consul office against each other. This was Catilina's second and final attempt. He lost. He also was heavily in debt.

=> The Catilinian Conspiracy. Was it an attempted coup d'état by a few dissaffected Roman nobles like Catilina plus some of their dupes among the population which Cicero foiled? Was it an attempted revolution against an unjust system (reading that started in some parts of the 20th century)? Either way, it is, as I said, Cicero's main (though not only) claim to political fame. The first of four speeches against Catilina, which he held in Catilina's presence, is the one you'll end up hearing quoted and parodied the most, opening with the famous "Quo usque tandem, Catilina, abutere patientia nostra?" ("How much longer, Catilina, will you go on abusing our patience?"

Sallust: Roman history writer. Client of Caesar (which is important, because Cato accused Caesar of being in league with Catilina when everyone, post victory, was debating the fate of the conspirators, and Caesar argued against the death penalty for those who hadn't already died with Catilina in battle; the Cato vs Caesar speeches make for a particularly lively section in Sallust's history). Allied to the Populares. His "The Conspiracy of Catiline" does present Catilina as a villain and Cicero as a hero, but it also provides some positive material about Catilina (ability to ditch his decadent life style for stoic soldierism when he wanted to, being personally brave in combat, heroic last speech before dying with his men in battle) along with all the negatives (ruthless young opportunist under Sulla the dictator, sexual scandals, wanted to topple the state during Cicero's consulate).

The reason why we read Cicero's first speech against Catilina in conjunction with Sallust's "The Conspiracy of Catilina" in my Latin class is therefore obvious.

Short term consequence for Cicero: getting voted the honorary title "Pater Patriae", praised of saving the Republic from Catilina.

Middle term consequence for Cicero: the fact that he had sucessfully used the emergency power given to him during the conspiracy to condemn the surviving conspirators to death without a trial (the thing Cato had argued for, and Caesar against) was to banish him from Rome for two years (since it was illegal to kill Roman citizens without a trial, and a later Senate, by now nerveously eying the first Triumvirate - Caesar/Pompey/Crassus - said Cicero's emergency powers didn't cover that). It also factored in an enraged crowd buring Cicero's house down in the aftermath of Clodius' death. (Clodius = also a shady and ruthless Populares politician. Murdered. Cicero defended his killer.)

Long term consequence for Cicero: by and large, he's still the hero of the story, but some of his actions are getting side-eyed now.

[mildred_of_midgard]

I wish to enroll at the University of Selena for my next Classics degree. :) Thank you for this, it was enlightening to me as well.

The reason why we read Cicero's first speech against Catilina in conjunction with Sallust's "The Conspiracy of Catilina" in my Latin class is therefore obvious.

As is the reason why I was confused that we were not doing exactly this!

[cahn]

This is awesome, I can see why you would read them together and why mildred is so angry that she didn't read them together, and I will have you know I am both realizing the depth of my ignorance and fighting really hard to stop from asking you a zillion questions, I will save them for classics salon. This is great :D