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selenakExogenesis
You know, the only memories I had of this episode were of the Ivanova & Corwin scene at her quarters and later the Ivanova and Marcus scene at the end. I had completely forgotten the main plot about the parasites which turn out to be benevolent symbiotes in the end. Which, shall we say, is somewhat ironic, given later events. This is also the last kinda, sort of standalone main plot for a while since events heat up for a mid season three parter in the very next episode, and even within these parameters, the b plot - Sheridan telling Ivanova to sound Corwin out for a possible participation in the big conspiracy - moves the arc forward.
I have to say, younger me saw the b plot as pure comic relief, both Corwin misunderstanding Ivanova's approach as a possible come-on and Ivanova giving Marcus the roses in the final scene. Older me thinks Corwin looks absolutely terrified at first, and while he has enormous respect for Ivanova and considers her attractive, I hadn't considered (and evidently nor did Ivanova) that your superior making a pass at you, which is what Corwin mostly thinks is happening, though he isn't 100% sure, is something forbidden for good reason. I mean, what if Corwin had felt harrassed but had not known how to handle it out of fear for his career? If the genders were reversed, this would not have felt funny at all.
As it is, and knowing the misunderstanding doesn't come up again, I am still more amused than not, but I also think it's another 90s story element.
Incidentally, though: sounding out the rest of the command staff first before springing the offer to join an anti government conspiracy to them makes sense. Ivanova's irritation with Marcus, the "not knowing where he fits in" whch comes up in the next episode as well, is partly due to her own insecurities about who is is now, but even if she wasn't a career military engaged in working towards the overthrow of the government, I think Ivanova likes putting people into categories at first, though if they surprrise her, she is ready to take them at their own value. And Marcus, being neither military nor civilian as a Ranger, and certainly not a diplomat, is outside of those categories.
Susan/Marcus is of course the other big ship involving Ivanova (the first being Susan/Talia) in the fandom, and these episodes are when the show starts to provide material for it. I remember back in the 90s day a commenter saying they are essentially the gender reversed cliché of the brooding Gothic hero(ine) with a dark past and emotional scars from past relatoinships and the perky breath of new life coming into said Gothic hero's life. Today, the same idea would be formulated as "her manic pixie dream boy". (A bit unfair to Marcus, who does have scars of his own.) Me, I'm neutral on both Ivanova ships (meaning I'm okay with them, but I never sought out fanfic), so something else I hadn't recalled was Franklin telling Marcus that he's not Ivanova's type and in fact is several worlds away from playing in her league. Given the two love interests (one past, one present) the show presented for Ivanova so far - Malcolm the not so secret xenophobe in s1, and Talia - both of whom revealed another self than the one Ivanova was familiar with, one could deduce Franklin means that Marcus is too honest. :)
Re: the parasites who are really
Messages from Earth
Aaaand we're in the rebellion/authoritarian coup business, as in interconnected plot lines, Night Watch members are told that arrests of all kind of people up to some of the chiefs of staff is iminent and Zack in particular is told to spy on Garibaldi, while elsewhere Sheridan removes his uniform and goes on a Shadow vessel destroying mission with the White Star. (Here, btw, I remembered the conversation with Delenn when he was trying to sleep, and also the earlier reveal about the Shadow vessel found on Mars, but didn't remember the use of Jupiter to get rid of the Shadow ship, though I did remember the Agamemnon showing up before Sheridan leaves the solar system. It won't be the last time, Sheridan. That put between the alternatives of surrendering or firing on his former ship where most of the people serving would have been ones he personally knew, Delenn finds a third alternative for him (escape), shows how in tune by now they are, and on a Doylist level it avoids the episode having a tragic dimension. But he must be aware that there's a civil war coming towards him, though presumably he still hopes at this point that Clark & allies can be arrested and disposed by his, Sheridan's allies in the military.
Back in the day, I think I was reasonably sure Sheridan would not get caught, but I was really tense about what would happen with Zack, what he would decide to do, and whether or not he would die. He really worked (still does) for me as an Everyman type finding himself in this situation. Note that Zack was itnroduced in s2, same time as the unlamented Warren Keffer, only in his case he was built up from just one of Garibaldi's security guys to now, in the third season, a part of the regular ensemble you do care about.
New thoughts on this rewatch: if the Shadow vessel on Mars was found "seven years ago" in mid s3, with each B5 season covering a year, then all this happened when Santiago was President, and Clark had no more power than VPs usually do. In which case the cover up of this find really must have done efficiently as hell, because how do you keep something like this secret?
Sheridan removing his uniform: note that in 2.02 or thereabouts, he said the most important things to him were his wife and his career. Finding out who you are without much or all that used to define you to yourself is a big theme on this show.
The other episodes
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Date: 2022-05-08 04:39 am (UTC)Anyway, still must watch Messages from Earth, though I did mostly get through Exogenesis; parasites and misunderstandings with romantic overtones both are not super enjoyable for me, so I made liberal use of the fast-forward button :) (Though I must say that these parasites/symbiotes did look much less squicky than any other parasites I've seen on TV.)
Misunderstandings with romantic overtones: yeah, the scene where Ivanova suggests a private meeting with Corwin is Not Great. And his face! (Okay, his face was hilarious.) I know that Sheridan has an office-type place where he meets people, we've seen it, why can't they meet there? One-on-one superior/subordinate meetings are great!
Me, I'm neutral on both Ivanova ships (meaning I'm okay with them, but I never sought out fanfic)
I'm not a fan of Ivanova/Marcus, at least not yet (he still seems a little, idk, too manic pixie for me). But as regards Talia, it's not so much that I ship them as that I just want that one Talia epic AU. But I really want that one! enough that it may count as shipping them :)
one could deduce Franklin means that Marcus is too honest. :)
Lol! Yeah... I feel like most people, definitely Marcus, would be a great improvement over Malcolm, and canon!Talia :P
Also, I appreciate your telling me the story about Franklin's actor, because now whenever he comes on screen I think "aw, poor guy, not knowing whether to play this as Addict City or Perfectly Normal Doctor," which is much better for my blood pressure than actually thinking about the addiction arc directly.
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Date: 2022-05-08 03:48 pm (UTC)I'm not going to make a case for Exogenesis: The Missing Scenes. Like I said, I only had memories of two scenes before watching. But there's some continuity-relevant stuff re: Ivanova, Marcus, the general situation in it, so I didn't skip it.
Thinking about this more than it probably deserves: back in s1, Sinclair could invite Talia to dinner without this being taken as a romantic overture, since they had it in a restaurant and in public. However, since Ivanova wants to sound out Corwin for potentially incindiary activities, I can understand this not being an option. Maybe something like "let's stretch our legs and walk a little" and asking her questions on a stroll would have done the trick?
Corwin makes good reaction faces, though. The rewatch has reminded me of the one he made in the ISN documentary when assuring the reporter he was working in a stress free enviroment while Ivanova was lurking in the background....
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Date: 2022-05-11 05:08 am (UTC)...WHAT EVEN JUST HAPPENED THERE
THEY DEFINITELY RATCHETED THAT UP A FEW NOTCHES
Sheridan headed a mission against Earth?? Earth is trying to use a Shadow ship without apparently having any idea what they're doing (even though Morden is around??)?? Clark declares martial law??
Sheridan takes off his uniform???? (This really shocked me a lot, actually.)
I agree that I wasn't scared for Sheridan, and I'm still really scared for Zack.
New thoughts on this rewatch: if the Shadow vessel on Mars was found "seven years ago" in mid s3, with each B5 season covering a year, then all this happened when Santiago was President, and Clark had no more power than VPs usually do. In which case the cover up of this find really must have done efficiently as hell, because how do you keep something like this secret?
Oh, this fic would be really interesting too, that maybe Santiago covered it up with the best of intentions, but Clark... saw how to use it for his intentions. (But yeah. Large things like that just don't stay secret, although I suppose it might have been more believable then than now.)
A couple of shallower things:
-I now can say that I just don't like Marcus. I mean, I guess he's okay? He just... tries too hard, he's too much Manic Pixie Dream Boy crossed with Aragorn, and I don't find it that interesting. No wait, actually, on second thought, it's specifically his scenes with Ivanova I don't like. He's fine otherwise, like when he's doing stuff.
-In the sleep scene with Sheridan and Delenn, I was totally reminded of Ivanova trying and failing to sleep in Sheridan's office because he kept rambling on and on, and Ivanova going "Your wife must have been a saint!!" and I totally imagine Delenn smirking and saying, "Actually, I am a saint!"
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Date: 2022-05-11 05:30 am (UTC)ETA: Wait, I have to make this Point of No Return/Severed Dreams/Ceremonies of Light and Dark, i.e. all three episodes, because of thematic reasons, and also because otherwise I don't have both parts of the "War without End" two parter in the same weekend (two weeks later), and that must not be./ETA
Marcus: I'm Marcus neutral, and I don't ship him and Ivanova. Though I have to say one of my earliest B5 fics (set in s4, so you can't read it yet) featured Vir, Lennier and him. Now I needed Marcus only as providing a cue for the central discussion in this Vir centric story, and hadn't much thought about it, and then I got feedback from a friend who was a big Marcus fan and felt I was being unfair to him in this story, writing him far too self-centred. It hadn't occured to me - like I said, I hadn't much thought about him at all - but that was the first time I realised that casual writing of characters not your fave (but not disliked, either - just not loved) can feel very differently to people whose fave said characters are. (I also experienced the reverse in B5 fandon, w hen there was a story focused on Sheridan and Sinclair which let Londo act completely ooc for my taste. Like Marcus in my story, he didn't play a big role, he just set the plot rolling, so I guess the writer was just in the same position I had been with Marcus.)
Delenn: LOL, yes. Clearly, Ivanova didn't know about the calming effect of rain drop noises when it comes to making Sheridan actually fall asleep and quiet. :)
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