Foundation 3.08
Aug. 29th, 2025 10:35 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
selenakIn which cult leaders do as cult leaders are wont to do, and all Cleons find out something new.
I figured Dawn had to be alive - the show taking the trouble to ensure the audience sees he's in a spacesuit when he got sucked out of an airlock was a heavy hint - , but it's nice to have it confirmed. (It also pretty much HAD to be the Mule's forces who picked him up, given Demerzel believes he's dead and so does Gaal.) What I hadn't counted on was him ending up in a room with a recovering Bayta, which is a neat new combination of characters. It's also fascinating to see that when the Mule after interrogating Dawn turns his attention to Bayta, he appearas to find it impossible to get into her head and even appears to be a little intimidated, backing off.
Two possibilities:
a) Bayta is a mentalic who hasn't realized that yet, with empathic powers that may so far had helped her becoming the Foundation equivalent of an Influencer, and under the direct threat of the Mule, they kick in full force. On the one hand, her interactions with both Magnifico and the late Uncle Mallow certainly qualify as empathic in the traditional sense of the word, and both Gaal and Salvor were examples of women who only as adults realized their mental powers which they previously were only aware of subconsciously. What makes me doubt this is that when the Mule was confronted with another Mentalic in the form of Pritcher, he had no problem invading his mind.
b) Magnifico has powers far beyond amplifying those of the Mule, and he put some kind of mental block around her that means her mind cannot be invaded by the Mule.
Anyway, possibly because of the unwelcome Bayta experience, the Mule leaves without mindwiping Dawn into a faithful follower, which I was rather relieved about.
Meanwhile on New Terminus: the first time this season (imo,as always) where a character acts for Doylist reasons in a way that can't really justified in a Watsonian way when Vault!Hari does not fry the Mule the way he did the unfortunate hubristic Warden from early s2 after Mule has made the mistake of getting close enough to the Vault for him to do so, he just smashes him up a bit. Now obviously the real reason is that this isn't the season finale, but while it's good the writers recalled there's precedent for Vault!Hari to kill someone this way and that they need to show why he doesn't with this enormous threat, their explanation - letting Vault!Hari declare that the Mule has a secret he's got to find out and that's why he's letting him live - is just lame. I'm good with everything else in that scene, including Digital Hari pointing out that while he can mimic emotions, he doesn't have them, ergo the Mule can't control him. This is why Hari Prime - who does/did have emotions, rather violent ones at times - was always the more interesting one, but it's also intriguing in terms of what it means for Demerzel, who is an artificial life form like digital Hari but definitely has emotions. Until now I was sure she'd be immune to mental powers - and the fact Gaal couldn't sense her rather seemed to confirm it - but now I'm not so sure any longer.
Which brings me to Trantor, where Dusk as expected after hearing about Dawn's supposed death (and for added kicks that Dawn was in cahoots with Gaal before said death and didn't tell anyone) decides it's time for his super weapon. What I didn't expect is that he does tell Demerzel about it before and argues this is the one way to save the Cleonic dynasty, not decorking other clones (who'd be as doomed as the previous ones, he argues, if the weapon isn't used and Trantor is handed over to the Mule as the remaining council members demand) . We've been building up all season to whether or not Demerzel would be able to resist following her Cleonic reprogramming in another direct "Cleonic Dynasty survival vs lots of humanity survival" survival scenario; it's clear from her scene with the priestess that she herself doesn't think so, and is filled with yet more self loathing because of it ("I will always be their pale reaper").
(Possibly) fortunately for Demerzel, Day in his subplot elsewhere on Trantor finally has reached the conclusion yours truly and some other fans have been hoping he would from all the revelations he's been having in recent episodes: that he needs to free Demerzel from what Cleon I. did to her, that it has to be him (i.e. a Cleon) and that he needs to do so not just for Demerzel's or his own sake but everyone else's. Granted, he has to be threatened by imminent execution before he verbalizes his brainwave, but still - go Day! And it couldn't have been any other Day but this one. There were other Days (or Dusks, or Dawns) who showed anger towards Cleon I., but not to the extent of this Day, who also has been shown to loathe his Clone existence more than any of the others and see it as imprisonment. At the start of the season, he projected this anger at Demerzel, blaming her for their existence, and more recently we got the flashbacks showing him going from love to hostility was also fed by his believe she couldn't possibly love them. After a season of confrontations with unwelcome truths, he's now arrived at the opposite state: freeing Demerzel is the key to everything else. That this goes along with Day temporarily at least saving his life by recalling the melody Demerzel hummed to all the Cleons when they were child Dawn and that the Robot head the cult leader proudly parades around responds to it was a great visualization of this moment, too. Now that's how you do a character arc.
Cult leaders are never up to anything good on this show, though, and this one rather like Dostojewski's great inquisitor does not want the actual return of his deity, because where does that leave him? It's not that he doesn't believe Daneel is Demerzel is the last robot, it's that he does. And thus he orders Day's execution to continue. Given we were told that Ocean is the executor, that we and Day saw her talking animatedly to Song while the cult leader was droning on, and that the faithful were less than convinced by the cult leader's denial after being wowed by the robot head responding to the lullaby, I think it's another safe bet this Day isn't dead any more than Dawn was. Either Ocean has manipulated where he's falling towards when the episode ends, or he'll be saved otherwise.
Anyway: with the exception of the Vault!Hari "I'm not killing you because..." statement, another great episode in a season which I love. This show has been so great these last two seasons, and in s1 while having its ups and downs was very good already.
I figured Dawn had to be alive - the show taking the trouble to ensure the audience sees he's in a spacesuit when he got sucked out of an airlock was a heavy hint - , but it's nice to have it confirmed. (It also pretty much HAD to be the Mule's forces who picked him up, given Demerzel believes he's dead and so does Gaal.) What I hadn't counted on was him ending up in a room with a recovering Bayta, which is a neat new combination of characters. It's also fascinating to see that when the Mule after interrogating Dawn turns his attention to Bayta, he appearas to find it impossible to get into her head and even appears to be a little intimidated, backing off.
Two possibilities:
a) Bayta is a mentalic who hasn't realized that yet, with empathic powers that may so far had helped her becoming the Foundation equivalent of an Influencer, and under the direct threat of the Mule, they kick in full force. On the one hand, her interactions with both Magnifico and the late Uncle Mallow certainly qualify as empathic in the traditional sense of the word, and both Gaal and Salvor were examples of women who only as adults realized their mental powers which they previously were only aware of subconsciously. What makes me doubt this is that when the Mule was confronted with another Mentalic in the form of Pritcher, he had no problem invading his mind.
b) Magnifico has powers far beyond amplifying those of the Mule, and he put some kind of mental block around her that means her mind cannot be invaded by the Mule.
Anyway, possibly because of the unwelcome Bayta experience, the Mule leaves without mindwiping Dawn into a faithful follower, which I was rather relieved about.
Meanwhile on New Terminus: the first time this season (imo,as always) where a character acts for Doylist reasons in a way that can't really justified in a Watsonian way when Vault!Hari does not fry the Mule the way he did the unfortunate hubristic Warden from early s2 after Mule has made the mistake of getting close enough to the Vault for him to do so, he just smashes him up a bit. Now obviously the real reason is that this isn't the season finale, but while it's good the writers recalled there's precedent for Vault!Hari to kill someone this way and that they need to show why he doesn't with this enormous threat, their explanation - letting Vault!Hari declare that the Mule has a secret he's got to find out and that's why he's letting him live - is just lame. I'm good with everything else in that scene, including Digital Hari pointing out that while he can mimic emotions, he doesn't have them, ergo the Mule can't control him. This is why Hari Prime - who does/did have emotions, rather violent ones at times - was always the more interesting one, but it's also intriguing in terms of what it means for Demerzel, who is an artificial life form like digital Hari but definitely has emotions. Until now I was sure she'd be immune to mental powers - and the fact Gaal couldn't sense her rather seemed to confirm it - but now I'm not so sure any longer.
Which brings me to Trantor, where Dusk as expected after hearing about Dawn's supposed death (and for added kicks that Dawn was in cahoots with Gaal before said death and didn't tell anyone) decides it's time for his super weapon. What I didn't expect is that he does tell Demerzel about it before and argues this is the one way to save the Cleonic dynasty, not decorking other clones (who'd be as doomed as the previous ones, he argues, if the weapon isn't used and Trantor is handed over to the Mule as the remaining council members demand) . We've been building up all season to whether or not Demerzel would be able to resist following her Cleonic reprogramming in another direct "Cleonic Dynasty survival vs lots of humanity survival" survival scenario; it's clear from her scene with the priestess that she herself doesn't think so, and is filled with yet more self loathing because of it ("I will always be their pale reaper").
(Possibly) fortunately for Demerzel, Day in his subplot elsewhere on Trantor finally has reached the conclusion yours truly and some other fans have been hoping he would from all the revelations he's been having in recent episodes: that he needs to free Demerzel from what Cleon I. did to her, that it has to be him (i.e. a Cleon) and that he needs to do so not just for Demerzel's or his own sake but everyone else's. Granted, he has to be threatened by imminent execution before he verbalizes his brainwave, but still - go Day! And it couldn't have been any other Day but this one. There were other Days (or Dusks, or Dawns) who showed anger towards Cleon I., but not to the extent of this Day, who also has been shown to loathe his Clone existence more than any of the others and see it as imprisonment. At the start of the season, he projected this anger at Demerzel, blaming her for their existence, and more recently we got the flashbacks showing him going from love to hostility was also fed by his believe she couldn't possibly love them. After a season of confrontations with unwelcome truths, he's now arrived at the opposite state: freeing Demerzel is the key to everything else. That this goes along with Day temporarily at least saving his life by recalling the melody Demerzel hummed to all the Cleons when they were child Dawn and that the Robot head the cult leader proudly parades around responds to it was a great visualization of this moment, too. Now that's how you do a character arc.
Cult leaders are never up to anything good on this show, though, and this one rather like Dostojewski's great inquisitor does not want the actual return of his deity, because where does that leave him? It's not that he doesn't believe Daneel is Demerzel is the last robot, it's that he does. And thus he orders Day's execution to continue. Given we were told that Ocean is the executor, that we and Day saw her talking animatedly to Song while the cult leader was droning on, and that the faithful were less than convinced by the cult leader's denial after being wowed by the robot head responding to the lullaby, I think it's another safe bet this Day isn't dead any more than Dawn was. Either Ocean has manipulated where he's falling towards when the episode ends, or he'll be saved otherwise.
Anyway: with the exception of the Vault!Hari "I'm not killing you because..." statement, another great episode in a season which I love. This show has been so great these last two seasons, and in s1 while having its ups and downs was very good already.
no subject
Date: 2025-08-29 09:48 am (UTC)I thought I caught a little flash of something with Bayta when she interrupts Mule torturing Dawn and says IIRC "You should leave now" or "I think you should leave" -- and he just stares at her and looks really taken aback. I have no idea what it is tho. I was so happy she wasn't mindwiped or dead!
I now hate Dusk since the ferret thing so that is putting a slight crimp in my enjoyment. I also think he turned the Foundation ambassador for his own reasons, ugh. (Whoops somehow this posted too soon.) It looks like the great big cliffhanger may encompass Dusk's ascension (or lack thereof), him using the terrible weapon, Gaal fighting the Mule, and who knows what else. I am excite!
no subject
Date: 2025-08-29 12:27 pm (UTC)I think if that robot head broadcast she must have heard it. Though presumably she never heard the reveberation when the cult members over the centuries were praying/humming to it, but the episode does differentiate between that rather low key glow/hum and what happens when Day actually sings the lullaby and the head not only vibes but vocalizes in return.
I’m really glad that Bayta remained unharmed (both physically and mentally) as well! Presumably she and Dawn will have to organize a jail break now.
On the general principle that killing animals is what you do when you really want the audience to take against a character, I suspect Dusk will die, and unpleasantly so. (As opposed to yourself, I don’t hate him, but yes, he’s toast.) The question is whether he will die before or after he uses his weapon. Or half uses it. I think Gaal and/or Demerzel in combination with some other characters will manage to somehow contain the effects of the black hole, but Gaal will have to remain within its orbit in order to do that and this (as opposed to another cryo stint) is how she’ll survive the next time jump between seasons, managing to escape due to futuristic plot device x early in s4. It might even be that the way she defeats the Mule will be interconnected with this and he will end up swallowed by the Black Hole.
Btw, given that Gaal has three other mentalics with her, I bet they will pull off the same bluff we’ve seen twice this season and of course repeatedly last season, i.e. projecting - i.e. we might see the Mule “kill” Gaal early in their fight only to discover it wasn’t Gaal but one of the others. And since it’s brought up again this episode Salvor is there in the vision but can’t be in reality: I think Gaal herself will be hidden als Salvor’s dead body (via projection) when we see the whole thing play out. (The Mule has no idea who Salvor is, even if he has reasearched Gaal now; he wouldn’t pay attention to one more dead body lying around when he’s about to defeat his arch nemesis in his view.) At least those are my current guesses!
no subject
Date: 2025-09-04 05:32 am (UTC)