Serenity

[selenak]

Serenity: in a word, loved it. So did the rest of the audience, which wasn't huge, considering that they had put the movie on a late night schedule and had made zilch advertisment for it, but thalia_seawood and I were happy fans anyway. In that special, Jossian way. *veg*



Firstly, as opposed to many an attempt (thinking of the X-Files movie and blanching here), I think the transition from tv to screen works for fans and new viewers alike, though of course one would have to grab a non-Firefly-viewer and ask to be sure. There is one noticable "gap", as it were, if you're a Firefly fan - Simon and Mal got along far, far better by the time of Objects in Space than they do at the opening of this film, which could be set around the time of the episode Safe as far as their relationship is concerned. However, as I had read the comics where Mal was busy alienating everyone while external circumstances went from bad to worse, I was somewhat prepared for this. Still, it's the point where Joss asks series viewers to make a leap.

The opening sequence solved the problem of explaining the Simon and River backstory to new viewers admirably as it wasn't boring for old viewers, and to me connected to what was done to River in a metaphorical way. Slicing through layers after layers - first we think we get the typical opening speech of a sci-fi saga, then it's apparant it is a school (and one teaching propaganda at that), then, as child!River is already employing the speech of adult River (as opposed to the genuine flashback to River as a child in Safe), you wonder whether this is a genuine memory or something either imprinted on her or her way of seeing what happened today, cut and we are at River being operated upon, and Simon rescuing her, and this, too, turns out yet to be another illusion, a holographic projection for the benefit of the film's designated antagonist.

(At the turning point of the movie, our heroes will, of course, go through several layers again to find the central mystery.)

Who to my immense relief turned out to be not a copy of Jubal Early. After the trailer, I was somewhat afraid of that. (Nothing against Early, just against repetition.) I haven't seen the actor who played The Operative before, but he was very good - never over the top. Loved, loved, loved the twist that what eventually saves everyone isn't that Mal defeats him but that he leaves him alive, and that The Operative, as opposed to Standard Villain X, does not believe in killing everyone after the secret is already out and is in fact able to process just what he saw and draw conclusions. Joss has a pretty dark world view but it is also huge on hope.

Speaking of dark. At the beginning, Serenity is literary falling apart, and so is the crew. Or rather, Mal is, and in the process pushes everyone, and River will be falling apart soon. (Concentrating on River and Mal for the movie made sense - River had the most evolved arc in the tv series. Of course, what a tv show can deliver and a movie can't are all those other arcs - Book's, Inara's, etc. - which we're now permanently robbed of. Damm Fox!) They both will get it together, and so will the crew. For a reason. Belief is a big concept here. Both The Operative and Book bring it up repeatedly. We saw Mal loose his belief right at the start of Serenity the pilot episode. He is always flirting with that nihilism Jayne accuses him off, the Charge of the Light Brigade. But what ultimately saves him is that the protecting instinct is stronger. By the time Mal decides to find Miranda and later to broadcast the truth, he's not looking for death, and it's not about his own issues with the Alliance - it's about saving, which makes all the difference.

(River getting it together when needing her lethal skills to save Simon and her friends was predictable, but worked well on me anyway.)

The Pax drug reminded me that Joss watched Blake's 7 as a boy. I must say, he uses it better, because when it was brought up in season 4 of B7 again (yes, we also hear of tranquilizers in the pilot, but not after), I wondered why it is not spread in the entire Federation. The side effect of killing off one part of the population and driving the other insane would do that.

Incidentally, that explanation for the Reavers - side products of a government pacification program - works far better for me than the men-going-insane-in-outer space the show originally offered.

(I also suspect Joss read Alan Moore, because the way of disguising Serenity as a Reaver ship? So is from the Pirate subplot in Watchmen.)

(The other thing I was reminded of was of course season four of Alias. See, Arvin, you could have screwed up even worse with that peace-by-drugs thing...)

Of course, the true glory of anything written by Joss Whedon is the razor-sharp dialogue (and the great acting, because the man just casts well, and thankfully kept everyone from tv). It was so good to hear Jossian lines spoken out loud again. And it's not just they're witty, or twist an expected cliché, or occasionally touching - they always are perfect for the person saying them, in character.

The other Joss Whedon trademark is killing off people the audience cares about, sooner or later. Book's death I was sadly spoiled for, due to some genius titling their lj posted fanfic "Book's Legacy". Wash's came as a surprise. (Though if the show had continued, I'd have bet on either Zoe or Wash for death, simply because they were a happy couple. And we all know what happens to those.) A horrible shock, and just like the characters, there was no time to think as they needed to get the hell away.

Also? Gina Torres is a goddess, but then, we knew that already. Zoe snapping back into soldier mode, Zoe going beserk at the Reavers later, and Zoe and Mal standing in the ship at last, with Mal asking not just about the ship but Zoe and Zoe answering the same unspoken question - gah.

I haven't really processed yet that Wash is dead. I mean - Wash! Funny, lovable, and in many ways the sanest person on board. Wash and his dinosaurs. Great Maker.

In other news, did anyone else think when seeing Mr. Universe that this is Warren who has somehow avoided going the supervillain wannabe route?

And Joss has a thing for Summer Glau's feet. But we knew that already, too.

In conclusion: I need fanfic!

Comments

[likeadeuce.livejournal.com]

squee, i knew if i stayed up long enough you'd wake up and post --.

I haven't seen the actor who played The Operative before, but he was very good - never over the top. Loved, loved, loved the twist that what eventually saves everyone isn't that Mal defeats him but that he leaves him alive, and that The Operative, as opposed to Standard Villain X, does not believe in killing everyone after the secret is already out and is in fact able to process just what he saw and draw conclusions.

Yes! I've been dying for your take on this character. And for some good operative-fic. I'm just saying ;).

This movie has so many layers that it took me several viewings to process it, and I've noticed new things every time.

posts on Wash's death (http://www.livejournal.com/users/karabair/336049.html); squeeful reaction (http://www.livejournal.com/users/karabair/332038.html); and a couple criticisms (http://www.livejournal.com/users/karabair/332564.html).

Incidentally, re: the apparent retcon in Simon's rescue of River (the movie shows that he went in personally rather than paying someone to do it), Joss has admitted it was a retcon and said he did it to make it work dramatically. He even used the word "fanwank" to describe his own decision that Simon lied -- he just doesn't know why.

I've avoided reading much post-fic, so far, but I will rec
A Hundred Shades of Blue (http://www.livejournal.com/users/inlovewithnight/438735.html) by inlovewithnight -- as usual, an unexpected take.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Thank you for all the links - now at least I can read these entries.

You know, I didn't even notice there was a retcon in the method of River's rescue - but I did think Simon being able to pull off that impersonation went against his lameness at same in Jaynestown. However, my personal fanwank was that if River's life is on the line, he's been known to go above and beyond before, and in Jaynestown the only thing on the line were Mal's earnings. *g*

Still: movie Simon is season 4 Wesley, and tv Simon is season 1 (of AtS) Wesley. It jars a bit.

Hm. Must think of whether that makes Mal season 4 or 5 Angel...

[(Anonymous)]

and in Jaynestown the only thing on the line were Mal's earnings. *g*

"Remember, it's all right to leave them to die." hee. I found River a lot more compelling in the movie than on TV, and Simon somewhat less -- I've got a softspot for dork!Simon, and the movie version seemed both more competent and less awkward (except when getting knocked out by River, but that seems to happen to everybody in the film --) It did occur to me, though, that in the eps Joss wrote (particularly the pilot and OiS), Simon's awkwardness is less pronounced than, say, in "Jaynestown." So maybe he always had a sense of Simon as a stronger character.

Other thoughts on your first post -- I don't know the B7 reference with Pax, but it seems there might be an interesting parallel of Jasmine, both to the original creators of the experiment and to the Operative with his determination to create a world w/o sin, even if the cost is killing a few children (and I love -- in a scary way -- the blissful look on his face when he says that killing children is something he does if he must). Other thoughts: Miranda -->"ahh, brave new world" -->Huxley's "Brave New World" --> biologically controlled dystopia. Ahh, Joss, but you are a clever one.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I was thinking Miranda, Tempest, Ariel (referenced before on this show by episode title, after all). Then I found sylviavolk2000 wrote an entire essay on the subject. With Operative = Caliban.

[likeadeuce.livejournal.com]

you know, I forget to log in and then I don't get notifs. Go figure! :)

Do you have a link to that essay?

And now I have to go look up the list of all the planets and see if there are any other Shakespeare refs --

[honorh.livejournal.com]

I knew you'd love it, in that special Jossian way. I didn't find the tension between Mal and Simon unbelievable at all; after all, not only have things become worse for Mal, causing him to start driving people away, but this was the first time Mal was deliberately putting River in harm's way. That makes for an unhappy Simon. And then, of course, Mal *can* be a total dick at times, which paradoxically makes me love him even more.

Wasn't Summer Glau amazing? Her breakdown on Miranda--gah! "Please, God, make me a stone." I need to have that on an icon. And the scene between her and Simon while he's wiping the blood off her face . . . *sigh*

I'm with you. I really, really want more of this universe. I wish some network would pick it back up, and Joss could get to tell all the stories he wanted to tell. With the full cast, of course; Book's story needs told.

Fanfic recs? Let me round some up for you!

[honorh.livejournal.com]

Oh, and also? Mr. Universe is *totally* Warren-in-Space.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

And it's such a Warren alias to pick, too!

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I just read your post-Serenity fanfic linked below, which made me sniffle. And yes, Books story does - all their stories. BTW, I'm really glad that the comics had the Book emphasis they did.

Going through other people's reviews, I just came across the intriguing theory that the Operative could be a proto-Book, or that Book might have been an operative in the past - your take?

[estepheia.livejournal.com]

I just came across the intriguing theory that the Operative could be a proto-Book, or that Book might have been an operative in the past - your take?
As far as I can tell that's the fandom consensus. Book is the Operative's mirror as well as Mal's. Book may have lost his faith in the system, which he may have had as an operative, but he didn't abandon faith per se; he adopted another faith. And he's advising Mal to do the same.

Makes sense to me. *shrug*
Would fit the special medical treatment that Book received in the series, and his steadfast refusal to kill. If he killed for the government, he might feel that any cause asking him to kill again is not the right cause for him...

[midnightsjane.livejournal.com]

Glad you finally saw Serenity!
Fanfic: from our good friend HonorH: http://www.livejournal.com/users/honorh/208532.html

[midnightsjane.livejournal.com]

And one more, from agilebrit
http://www.livejournal.com/users/agilebrit/197695.html#cutid1

[londonkds.livejournal.com]

Agree with a lot of what you said. I'm interested that you found the Operative's conversion believable, because that was my big problem with the film, and quite a few other people's reaction seems to be the same.

What I alluded to in a comment a long, long time ago, and you can now consider:

Mal setting the entire Reaver horde on the Alliance versus Blake's decision to defend the Federation against the Andromedans in Sky One, compare and contrast ;-)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I think whether or not you buy the Operative's actions at the end (didn't see them as much a conversion as a logical consequence myself) depends on whether or not the film can sell you on

a) The Operative, as opposed to Jubal Early or Niska, needing justifications and self-justifications for his actions. In short, whether you buy him as, say, Alfred Bester, or Scorpius, or whether you see him more in the Commander Travis tradition. Does is "I am a monster" and "of course I will not be a part of it" earlier indicate said need for justifications and moral awareness, or is it just fancy talk?

b) The Operative not being the petty revenge type. I.e. would he kill Mal & Co. once there would be no more goal achieved by killing Mal & Co., other than revenge?

For me, this worked.

Star One: well now, as Avon would say. Mal is probably more in the earlier Blake position of believing that the greater good, i.e. telling the truth about Miranda/ bringing down the Federation is worth the "many, many deaths" to quote Cally. I think if the Reavers were to stage an invasion of the core worlds, Mal would be willing to put himself and his crew on the line to defend same, too, but otoh in what he sees as a one battle scenario, he's willing to sacrifice those lives (and I don't think Mal is kidding himself about the Alliance soldiers being uniformly evil bastards). As I said, it's more Blake in "Pressure Point" and at the start of "Star One". (Of course, "Pressure Point" also ends with the death of a crew member due to Blake's pursuit of this goal...)

[londonkds.livejournal.com]

(As someone said below, Chijwetel Ojiofor is a British actor who's done quite a lot of film and TV over here and in the US. I believe his first major US role was as the leader of a slave revolt in Amistad.)

The Operative - well, at the end of the film it's clearly shown that he has his men help repair Serenity, and some people think it's further implied that he's actively lobbying the Alliance to let Simon and River run free. To me, that goes a bit of a way beyond not seeking revenge. I'd also note that if he had made any reprisals himself it wouldn't necessarily have been out of petty emotional revenge, but could be a calculated decision to demonstrate what happens to people who make trouble for the regime.

To be honest, I don't see the kind of fanatical totalitarian represented by the Operative, even one who genuinely does believe his moral justifications, being shocked into abandoning his positions by the accidental deaths of a few million people out on a moon somewhere. As far as your Bester comparisons go, I don't think Bester would care if, say, a few thousand telepaths augmented by the Corp melted down suddenly through some unforeseen problem with the process. At least not if none of them were his girlfriend. I don't know about you, but I thought that Bester's general outrage with the telepaths being used in Shadow ships was not out of any sympathy for them, but because they were being used in a way that wasn't in the interest of telepath-kind.

As far as the Star One comparisons go, it all depends for me on the relative size of the Reaver horde and the Alliance fleet. The two fleets we saw on screen seemed of pretty equal size, but it depends on whether you believe that the ships with the Operative were a large or small part of the Alliance's military power. I tend to think a large part, given the implications in the TV series that the Alliance military and police machine is seriously overstretched in its attempt to control the entire human sphere of colonisation, and if the Reavers had defeated them it might well have left the population pretty defenceless.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Point taken about the Operative doing more than just letting Mal & Co. go. However:

To be honest, I don't see the kind of fanatical totalitarian represented by the Operative, even one who genuinely does believe his moral justifications, being shocked into abandoning his positions by the accidental deaths of a few million people.

Hmmmmm. I'm not sure. Especially since the deaths might not have been what the Alliance intended but were hardly accidental; they and their cover-up and aftermath via the Reavers were symptoms. Perhaps not in the majority of cases, but I think it's possible. But perhaps I'm being prejudiced, wanting to believe that fanatical totalitarians can indeed be shocked through the death of millions into changing.

Having now read a couple of other reviews, I see that several people observed (see comments above) on the thematic connection of Book and the Operative. If Book once was what the Operative is, which is possible given Safe and other hints about Book's past, it would heighten the likelihood, but of course that's a matter of interpretation.

As far as your Bester comparisons go, I don't think Bester would care if, say, a few thousand telepaths augmented by the Corp melted down suddenly through some unforeseen problem with the process. At least not if none of them were his girlfriend. I don't know about you, but I thought that Bester's general outrage with the telepaths being used in Shadow ships was not out of any sympathy for them, but because they were being used in a way that wasn't in the interest of telepath-kind.

I'm in two minds about this. On the one hand, I agree that Bester would justify the deaths of a great number of telepaths in the way you describe as the sacrifices for the greater good of telepathkind, etc. I don't think he'd be indifferent, but he would justify it to himself like that. On the other hand, hm. He didn't know his girl friend was on board when he manipulated Sheridan into rescuing the teepsicles, and while the objection might have been primarily to "aliens are using my telepaths" as opposed to "nobody should use people/telepaths this way", the other component could be there as well. We do see Bester reacting genuinenly shocked a very few times on the show (when it's not Carolyn on the line, that is), but there are the two occasions in Phoenix Rising, both when he sees the crucified man in the elevator next to "Free Byron", and at the end after the mass suicide. I don't think he's acting for Sheridan's benefit there. None of those telepaths, Byron exempted, were people he had a personal connection with, but he clearly is affected by their deaths and the utter rejection of the system through said deaths.

(As far as Bester-the-ideologue is concerned, I think one of the most chilling examples of the way he's warped is in The Corps is Mother, the Corps is Father. The same man whose instinctive reaction after being shot himself is to ensure another telepath doesn't get hurt is capable of letting his young protege chuck a non-telepath into outer space and congratulate her on this.)

Star One parallels: that's a fascinating point, and I hadn't considered it. Yes, if that fleet constitutes a major part of the Alliance fleet, then the implications for the population are chilling. (Unless the Reavers have thrown all they have to offer there, too.) If this were a season finale, we'd expect the next season to deal with the consequences, and Mal to face he might have let the wolf loose on very, very many sheep.

Even if this is not the case, though, Mal's decision is certainly as debatable as Blake's original Star One gamble.

[londonkds.livejournal.com]

We do see Bester reacting genuinenly shocked a very few times on the show (when it's not Carolyn on the line, that is)

Being rude, one might point out the, as far as I know well-attested, story of Himmler throwing up in horror the only time he actually saw a mass execution.

[likeadeuce.livejournal.com]

Djimon Honsou was the guy in Amistad -- Ojiofor was in Dirty Pretty Things.

My thought on the Operative was not that he had a change of heart, per se, but that he was extremely pragmatic, and his pragmatism extended to the realization that there was no point in punishing Mal after the deed was done (though I'm not sure how to reconcile this with the forced suicide of the scientist in the first scene -- that is, i understand why killing him was pragmatic, but why create the illusion it was a choice? Perhaps, to use the Orwellian Big Brother parallel, he doesn't just want his victims to accept their deaths but to love them --? That's the best I can do.)

Actually, in a sense the Operative may be more Prospero than Caliban -- coming to the brink of fulfilling his mission, seeing no point in it, and spending the rest of his life contemplating mortality. Which makes River and Serenity crew HIS Mirandas -- (So then Simon is Ferdinand? I'm so confused!)

[londonkds.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the corrections re Ojiofor.

[watervole.livejournal.com]

If you liked the actor who played the Operative, watch 'Kinky Boots' and see him in a *totally* different role (and doing it very well).

I had some reservations about the film. It was good, but there were things that didn't work for me. Inara and Book were wasted. The clothing had gone all drab - where were Wash's shirts?

*Why* did River remember about the planet when she was triggered to act violent? There's no link between the two.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Inara and Book: I wouldn't say wasted - it was a given that out of an ensemble with nine characters, some would only get a little screen time in a two hour movie (as opposed to a tv show where you can highlight different characters each week), and what little time they got was used in a way that helped the plot and was in character for them. As opposed to, say the use of Uhura, Sulu and Chekov in most (not all) of the Star Trek movies, where they could be random officer X and Y.

River remembering Miranda when she was triggered: I assumed it was because she got that information during the time at the academy when she was conditioned, so the activation of the conditioning also activated her other memories.

[kathyh]

I knew you'd enjoy it *g*. I was accidentally spoiled the other way round - I knew about Wash, but not about Book, though I'd actually guessed earlier that he'd kill both of them. At one point I must admit that I thought everybody was going to die.

My thoughts about Serenity, such as they are, are here.

A horrible shock, and just like the characters, there was no time to think as they needed to get the hell away.

To be honest it didn't actually matter that I was spoilt for it as the shock was so huge. An excellent, very enjoyable film, though as I say in my comment on it I did wish that Joss had used just one big memorable cinematic shot.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I agree that the movie, visually speaking, still felt like tv, not a film. Also, yes, I had that moment, too, where I thought "....is he going to pull a Blake, or what?"

[kathyh]

I agree that the movie, visually speaking, still felt like tv, not a film.

It's odd because there are moments in BtVS like Buffy in the desert in Restless that felt very cinematic. Joss as a writer has pulled off the complex task of adapting his TV series for a film wonderfully, but Joss as a director hasn't made the leap. I'm sure he can, but there is a part of me that wants him to come back to TV.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

It's a conundrum. I want him to produce more TV, too! But otoh, movies are shiny things. Hmmmmm....

[estepheia.livejournal.com]

I took a friend who never saw the series and she loved the movie. :-)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Excellent news. I so hope it will have success here despite the bad advertisment!

[kalypso-v.livejournal.com]

We saw Mal loose his belief

lose

that nihilism Jayne accuses him off

of

My thoughts at the time (http://www.livejournal.com/users/kalypso_v/50422.html).

[sabaceanbabe.livejournal.com]

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry. I am a leaf on the wind, baby.

I finally got to see the final cut of Serenity myself a couple of weeks ago and then during skiffy's surprising Firefly mini marathons this past week I saw Objects in Space again and was struck by something: there is an obvious correlation and even resemblance between Jubal Early and the Operative in Serenity (was he given a name? I can't recall...), partially physical, but mostly attitude. But what struck me the hardest (which means my brain was working on this in the background without my knowledge or permission) was the resemblance that Book bears to both.

Damn Fox for robbing us of Book's backstory! I've convinced myself that he was once one of these operatives and that he grew beyond it and is atoning for what he'd done.

*sniffle* I'm going to miss Wash and Book so frakking, frelling, gorram much. :(

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Book as a former operative makes total sense to me. DAMN you, Fox!

[merrymaia.livejournal.com]

Serenity: in a word, loved it.

Yay!!!

Slicing through layers after layers

Oh. Yes. I hadn't thought of that. But yes. Of course!!

The Operative, as opposed to Standard Villain X, does not believe in killing everyone after the secret is already out and is in fact able to process just what he saw and draw conclusions.

Yup. More on that below.

Gina Torres is a goddess, but then, we knew that already. Zoe snapping back into soldier mode, Zoe going beserk at the Reavers later, and Zoe and Mal standing in the ship at last, with Mal asking not just about the ship but Zoe and Zoe answering the same unspoken question....I haven't really processed yet that Wash is dead. I mean - Wash! Funny, lovable, and in many ways the sanest person on board. Wash and his dinosaurs. Great Maker.


*closes eyes, bites lip, nods*





And Joss has a thing for Summer Glau's feet. But we knew that already, too.

Did you ever listen to Joss' commentary on "Objects in Space" on the DVD? It's fascinating.


Am composing a comment on the Operative, but it's getting long, so I'll post it separately.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Oh. Yes. I hadn't thought of that. But yes. Of course!!

thalia_seawood in her review has the even better image of a Russian doll.

Yes, I've heard said commentary, and agree, it's fascinating.

Operative: more on same in your lj.

[thalia-seawood.livejournal.com]

So great reading your thoughts on it! I posted mine just now before reading yours and it's fun to see on what we both picked up on. :-)

Incidentally, that explanation for the Reavers - side products of a government pacification program - works far better for me than the men-going-insane-in-outer space the show originally offered.
The wonderful thing is that the first explanation still works in the context of the show. Obviously, noone knows where the Reavers come from so people invent their own explanations. As the Reaver presence is strongest on the edges of this sun system the explanation that some humans somehow went mad because of the emptiness of space would come up in the myth building.

Speaking of dark. At the beginning, Serenity is literary falling apart, and so is the crew.
Yes, it's such a great symbol! I love symbols!

Funny, lovable, and in many ways the sanest person on board. Wash and his dinosaurs.
Wash is *a lot* like my boyfriend so I notice that I try to avoid thinking about Wash's death.

And Joss has a thing for Summer Glau's feet. But we knew that already, too.
Hee. True. Also a thing about young girls with long dark hair who have visions, are slightly insane and dangerous. (Not only Drusilla but also Faith comes to mind - so Faith is the voluptuous version. :-))

Why the Operative's "conversion" makes sense to me

[merrymaia.livejournal.com]

The Operative is not after power. He's after moral purity. He's obsessed with morality and with sin. He wants to create "a world without sin." He believes in "something greater than myself."

Somehow or other, he has come to believe that the Alliance is building a better world, a "world without sin."

So the Operative decided that he would sacrifice his own moral purity for the sake of a world without sin. He's an evil fanatic, but he's an altruistic evil fanatic.

He knows that what he does is monstrous. He freely admits his own evil:
"I am a monster, Mal....what I do is evil, I have no illusions about that, but it must be done."

The most crucial thing in understanding his character is that he does not believe he will see or SHOULD see the "paradise" he is creating. He does not believe that he will personally be rewarded for what he is doing. I wouldn't be surprised if he thinks he's going to hell for what he does – he's so obsessed with sin. In his own mind, he's sinning in the present so people in the future won't have to. In his own mind, he is sacrificing his own moral purity for the good of others. He will quietly go about his evil work, and then one day no more evil will be necessary, and he will fade away because his evil work will be done.

There's a weird, twisted nobility in him.

He's not a leader. He has troops who obey him, but he is very much alone. He's anonymous, a nameless Operative: "Like this facility, I don't exist."

He has a conscience and he has compassion. He suppresses them both.

(Though he does take the time to tell his victims that there is "no shame" in their deaths, which I think is a genuine attempt to tell them something that he both believes and would want to hear if he were in their places.)

He tries to convince Mal to think like he does. He tells Mal he knows he has no place in that better world, and Mal doesn't either, they're both bad, so why not be bad for the sake of something good? And Mal? Listens to him. Takes a lesson from him. Mal's mindset when he tells everyone that he'll shoot anyone who doesn't either help him or leave, when he snaps, "Get to work" - that is the Operative's mindset.

It makes perfect sense that the Operative would be completely disillusioned after seeing the Miranda recording. If he had been a different kind of villain it wouldn't make sense. But he is obsessed with moral purity, and as soon as he sees the reality of what he's been sacrificing himself for, of course it's going to shatter his faith. It makes sense to me that he not only gives the "stand down" order, but actively helps to repair Serenity, and tries to convince the Alliance that the "Tams are no longer a threat."

The moment when he realized the Alliance had made the Reavers – that was it for him. You can see it on his face as he watches. He believed that he was sacrificing his own moral purity for the greater good, and when he realizes the evil of that greater good - it's utterly shattering for him.

He means it when he responds to Mal's "I'd like to kill you myself if I see you again" with, "You won't. There's nothing left to see." He soaked his hands in blood for a "better world" - and now he's left with nothing but bloody hands. He's a broken, shattered man.

I find his line "There's nothing left to see" to be one of the moving lines in the film (and there are so many moving lines).

Re: Why the Operative's "conversion" makes sense to me

[selenak.livejournal.com]

The moment when he realized the Alliance had made the Reavers – that was it for him. You can see it on his face as he watches. He believed that he was sacrificing his own moral purity for the greater good, and when he realizes the evil of that greater good - it's utterly shattering for him.

That is how it came across to me. He needs the justification, the belief; he does not need killing for its own sake.

I also like the idea, suggested by other commentators, that the Operative could become Book (i.e. someone like Book) some day, because in this universe, you can get completely and utterly broken, but you can also, see River, see Mal, be rebuild.

Re: Why the Operative's "conversion" makes sense to me

[merrymaia.livejournal.com]

I also like the idea, suggested by other commentators, that the Operative could become Book (i.e. someone like Book) some day

Yes, I like that idea, too.

[smashsc.livejournal.com]

Carrie already mentioned it but Chijwetel Ojiofor is in Dirty Pretty Things but it deserves another mention because he is so wonderful there.

I'm completely on board with the idea that The Operative's story is also Book's backstory.

I still don't think I've processed that Wash is dead.

I've tagged most of the interesting Serenity posts I've come across here (http://del.icio.us/smashsc/meta.firefly).

Fic recs: The End of All Things (http://www.livejournal.com/users/rinalin/11526.html) by rinalin [Jayne/Kaylee, Mal, Serenity] & That Place of Nothing (http://www.livejournal.com/users/luzdeestrellas/22907.html) by luzdeestrellas [Wash/Zoe, Mal/Zoe, pain.]

[kskitten.livejournal.com]

Of course, the true glory of anything written by Joss Whedon is the razor-sharp dialogue (and the great acting, because the man just casts well, and thankfully kept everyone from tv). It was so good to hear Jossian lines spoken out loud again. And it's not just they're witty, or twist an expected cliché, or occasionally touching - they always are perfect for the person saying them, in character.

Yes, that was what I was most happy about too!

In other news, did anyone else think when seeing Mr. Universe that this is Warren who has somehow avoided going the supervillain wannabe route?

Totally Warren! What with the Bot and the geekiness, and even the looks were close. Would be interesting to investigate whether there were more similarities than just the very obvious like pattern of speech or manners of behaving.