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selenakSecond entry of the day, because now, post-Bayreuth, I FINALLY managed to see the second Pirates movie. And now having checked some other reactions, I guess I have another case of having fallen for the least popular character in the fandom. Because guess whom I adored in this one, having liked her already in Curse of the Black Pearl? That's right. Elizabeth.
When she chained Jack up to leave him for the kraken, she joined my pantheon containing the likes of Emma Frost, Irina Derevko, Winn Adami, Laura Roslin and other smart manipulative, ruthless women who are completely capable of behaving dastardly in order to get what they want. This, btw, does not mean I approve of each of their actions, or don't feel sorry for those on the other other hand of the dastardly treatment. (Says she who loves the likes of Arvin Sloane and Londo Mollari as well.) In this particular case, I must admit to a certain gleefulness, though, because a certain type of male character preaching to a female character of how she needs to be honest and show the rogue within (say, Rhett Butler) just makes me want to slap him in the face with the result, because usually said character then expects the female to be ruthless with everyone else, just not him. Anyway, Dead Man's Chest is generally a darker film - in an early scene of the first movie, we see a few skeletons swinging in the wind, in the the second, we get men's eyes picked out in those cages, and that pretty much sets the tone. I remember debates on the first film wanting to have its cake and eat it by presenting nice pirates (Jack) and bad pirates (Barbossa & crew). Here, what with cut throats left and right and Jack being willing to trade both Will and 99 other men for his own freedom for quite a while, that's not an issue.
That's another thing I loved: call it the undermining of the Jack Sparrow, lovable rogue image. One of the reasons why Han Solo over at Star Wars pretty much left me cold is that he was pretty much the cynic with a heart of gold, the kind of "ambiguous" character it's safe to love because he never does anything truly nasty, we know he'd never really abandon his friends, and most importantly, we never see any victims of supposed ruthless decisions he made in the past. Here, both Jack and Elizabeth are shown as ambiguous in a way that doesn't give such a safe "out". Jack does leave Will to Davy Jones, and the other (short lived) survivors have faces, too. Elizabeth gets Will, the crew of the Black Pearl and herself safely on shore not by risking/sacrificing the life of random redshirt X, she does it by tricking and sacrificing the universally beloved Jack Sparrow. Even bit players like what-was-their-name-again, the clownish duo, have their moment of darkness, the brief scene where Elizabeth is unarmed and they're alone with her. And you remember they are pirates, professional cutthroats and yes, probably rapists, too.
On a more shallow note, someone must have noticed in the first movie that Keira Knighley looked great in male seaman's get up during that short sequence she wore it on Norrington's ship, and put it to good use by letting her wear said wardrobe for most of the movie. As opposed to many an actress, she looked androgynous enough in it to make the get up convincing.
Speaking of looks, Jack Davenport pulls off the scruffy one for Norrington smolderingly. The good Commodore had his fans already after movie one, being one avoided cliché - i.e. instead of the stuffy evil fiancé, he was the decent honorable fiancé - but now I'd be surprised if there wasn a middle season 3 (of Angel) Wesley Wyndham-Pryce effect. It's funny, DMC seems to have resulted in an explosion of Jack/Elizabeth fic for obvious reasons (though in reviews Elizabeth still seems to fare worst in terms of condemnation), but what I really want to read is Elizabeth 'n James. Their brief scenes were fascinating to me, and I loved both that she stopped him from taking on the tavern drunk by knocking him out and that she went after him later to collect him from mud. I want a missing scene ficlet for what happens after her "James Norrington, what has life done to you" and before she shows up with him in tow at the Black Pearl. Conversely, their scene with Norrington making his pointed remark about just how Will ended up on Davy Jones' ship was fab, displaying James N. in his intelligence and newfound level when interacting with Elizabeth (they couldn't be further from the couple at Port Royal just before she fell in the sea). One more thing about Norrington: having outsmarted Jack, I fully expect him to deal with East India Company Guy next, possibly in collusion with (Ex-)Governer Swann, who was great in this movie, too.
The downside of things? Well, like virtually everyone else has said, the cannibals' island sequence was completely superfluous. I take it they also caused a debate about racism. What it did remind me of was of course the Ewoks sequence in RotJ, but Ewoks don't have a history of slavery going on at exactly the same time this movie is supposedly set.
(Star Wars homages galore in this movie; aside from the obvious Jack-with-kraken/Han-in-carbonite, we have Bootstrap Bill Turner as a milder version of Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader (does that make Davy Jones Palpatine?), and hey, a female Yoda in the swamp.)
Also, a lot of set-ups, as is a film's wont if the makes know there'll be a sequel, for which we have to wait regarding the pay-off; the whole story of Davy Jones' getting his heart broken by a woman, obviously. (My bet is on Yoda, err, Tia Dalmas.) Also the letters that were in the chest; Elizabeth read one quickly while the boys were arguing, and I wonder whether she'll have learned something that will come in handy when dealing with Jones. And of course: Barbossa. Able to eat apples, so presumably not around by virtue of having become undead again.
All in all, I enjoyed watching it, and am looking forward to the next one.
When she chained Jack up to leave him for the kraken, she joined my pantheon containing the likes of Emma Frost, Irina Derevko, Winn Adami, Laura Roslin and other smart manipulative, ruthless women who are completely capable of behaving dastardly in order to get what they want. This, btw, does not mean I approve of each of their actions, or don't feel sorry for those on the other other hand of the dastardly treatment. (Says she who loves the likes of Arvin Sloane and Londo Mollari as well.) In this particular case, I must admit to a certain gleefulness, though, because a certain type of male character preaching to a female character of how she needs to be honest and show the rogue within (say, Rhett Butler) just makes me want to slap him in the face with the result, because usually said character then expects the female to be ruthless with everyone else, just not him. Anyway, Dead Man's Chest is generally a darker film - in an early scene of the first movie, we see a few skeletons swinging in the wind, in the the second, we get men's eyes picked out in those cages, and that pretty much sets the tone. I remember debates on the first film wanting to have its cake and eat it by presenting nice pirates (Jack) and bad pirates (Barbossa & crew). Here, what with cut throats left and right and Jack being willing to trade both Will and 99 other men for his own freedom for quite a while, that's not an issue.
That's another thing I loved: call it the undermining of the Jack Sparrow, lovable rogue image. One of the reasons why Han Solo over at Star Wars pretty much left me cold is that he was pretty much the cynic with a heart of gold, the kind of "ambiguous" character it's safe to love because he never does anything truly nasty, we know he'd never really abandon his friends, and most importantly, we never see any victims of supposed ruthless decisions he made in the past. Here, both Jack and Elizabeth are shown as ambiguous in a way that doesn't give such a safe "out". Jack does leave Will to Davy Jones, and the other (short lived) survivors have faces, too. Elizabeth gets Will, the crew of the Black Pearl and herself safely on shore not by risking/sacrificing the life of random redshirt X, she does it by tricking and sacrificing the universally beloved Jack Sparrow. Even bit players like what-was-their-name-again, the clownish duo, have their moment of darkness, the brief scene where Elizabeth is unarmed and they're alone with her. And you remember they are pirates, professional cutthroats and yes, probably rapists, too.
On a more shallow note, someone must have noticed in the first movie that Keira Knighley looked great in male seaman's get up during that short sequence she wore it on Norrington's ship, and put it to good use by letting her wear said wardrobe for most of the movie. As opposed to many an actress, she looked androgynous enough in it to make the get up convincing.
Speaking of looks, Jack Davenport pulls off the scruffy one for Norrington smolderingly. The good Commodore had his fans already after movie one, being one avoided cliché - i.e. instead of the stuffy evil fiancé, he was the decent honorable fiancé - but now I'd be surprised if there wasn a middle season 3 (of Angel) Wesley Wyndham-Pryce effect. It's funny, DMC seems to have resulted in an explosion of Jack/Elizabeth fic for obvious reasons (though in reviews Elizabeth still seems to fare worst in terms of condemnation), but what I really want to read is Elizabeth 'n James. Their brief scenes were fascinating to me, and I loved both that she stopped him from taking on the tavern drunk by knocking him out and that she went after him later to collect him from mud. I want a missing scene ficlet for what happens after her "James Norrington, what has life done to you" and before she shows up with him in tow at the Black Pearl. Conversely, their scene with Norrington making his pointed remark about just how Will ended up on Davy Jones' ship was fab, displaying James N. in his intelligence and newfound level when interacting with Elizabeth (they couldn't be further from the couple at Port Royal just before she fell in the sea). One more thing about Norrington: having outsmarted Jack, I fully expect him to deal with East India Company Guy next, possibly in collusion with (Ex-)Governer Swann, who was great in this movie, too.
The downside of things? Well, like virtually everyone else has said, the cannibals' island sequence was completely superfluous. I take it they also caused a debate about racism. What it did remind me of was of course the Ewoks sequence in RotJ, but Ewoks don't have a history of slavery going on at exactly the same time this movie is supposedly set.
(Star Wars homages galore in this movie; aside from the obvious Jack-with-kraken/Han-in-carbonite, we have Bootstrap Bill Turner as a milder version of Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader (does that make Davy Jones Palpatine?), and hey, a female Yoda in the swamp.)
Also, a lot of set-ups, as is a film's wont if the makes know there'll be a sequel, for which we have to wait regarding the pay-off; the whole story of Davy Jones' getting his heart broken by a woman, obviously. (My bet is on Yoda, err, Tia Dalmas.) Also the letters that were in the chest; Elizabeth read one quickly while the boys were arguing, and I wonder whether she'll have learned something that will come in handy when dealing with Jones. And of course: Barbossa. Able to eat apples, so presumably not around by virtue of having become undead again.
All in all, I enjoyed watching it, and am looking forward to the next one.
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Kickass Elizabeth recs
Date: 2006-08-01 07:12 pm (UTC)No Survivors
http://monimala.livejournal.com/215092.html
Burning for a Cause
http://monimala.livejournal.com/222427.html
For the Wicked
These are three very interesting Elizabeth ones that I thought you would particularly like.
You know, I think Elizabeth is very hot. I'm kind of crushing on her. She is so not my pov character, though. Jack is. Which I'm sure says some pretty strange things about my head.
Re: Kickass Elizabeth recs
Date: 2006-08-01 07:28 pm (UTC)Re: Kickass Elizabeth recs
Date: 2006-08-01 07:41 pm (UTC)Re: Kickass Elizabeth recs
Date: 2006-08-01 07:44 pm (UTC)... while I do actually know what you mean, I think you win some sort of prize for Characters Least Likely to Be Compared to Each Other.
Re: Kickass Elizabeth recs
Date: 2006-08-01 07:46 pm (UTC)Re: Kickass Elizabeth recs
Date: 2006-08-01 07:57 pm (UTC)It kind of surprises me how easy it is for me to find Jack. I suppose it shouldn't though, since he has so much in common with Charles/Elza.
I think one of the things is that his real backstory, whatever that is, is much grimmer and much less romantic than all the stories he's told or had told about him in the series I've been doing this week. Much grimmer, much less about Jack As The Big Hero. I think
Re: Kickass Elizabeth recs
Date: 2006-08-02 03:44 am (UTC)She says "artaxastra, only you could describe comfort!sex with a one-legged man with PTSD as light fluff!"
Which is true, but you left out the part about it being a romance novel and your submitting it to Harlequin.
I don't see Elizabeth as having gotten to be an Emma Frost/Irina Derevko/Winn Adami/Laura Roslin type yet, for the simple reason that all of those women are older in both age and--much more importantly--experience. Elizabeth is still too young, too close to the ingenue she started as, but the seeds are obviously there... which brings me to your point about Elizabeth/Norrington, because YES, I also want to read that so badly. (I loved James in the first movie, and loved him just as much if not more in this one; someone was telling me spoilers for the third movie and the one thing they didn't know is what happens with Norrington, and I was just like, but--don't you understand that's the most important PART? I guess we'll just have to make do with fanfiction in the meantime).
Re: Kickass Elizabeth recs
Date: 2006-08-02 01:52 pm (UTC)OK! You asked for it! *g*
Less tentacles, more grim woe.
Which is true, but you left out the part about it being a romance novel and your submitting it to Harlequin.
Yes, this is so! Ok, yes. Perhaps not quite Harlequin material!
Elizabeth is still too young
Yes. It will take her a decade to get there. And she's looking for the transformative experience, for the person who will help her be who she wants to be. That's the reason I'm shipping her and Jack right now -- I don't think Will can take that role because he's not there himself, and I think Norrington is too much in the middle of his own crisis right now. Which is not to say that I can't see either ship down the road, but I think Jack is what she's looking for at this point in her life.