Babylon 5 speculation and more Buffy filk
Aug. 23rd, 2003 04:49 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
selenakMy heat-induced insomnia is back. So, first a Babylon 5 speculation, caused by the points about Sheridan in the later seasons which ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
hobsonphile raised. What if Sheridan had remained dead after Z'ha'dum? Kosh II might have sounded like a callous bastard when telling Delenn that Sheridan's part was done, but I wonder… was it? (Not that I'd ever recommend writing people off just because they're not necessary for cosmic events anymore.) Presumably, despite early difficulties, Delenn, Ivanova and the others could have kept the Alliance together. The Vorlons would have revealed themselves as just as ruthless as the Shadows in any case, which would have helped foster the "no choice between the two of you" attitude. Moreover, much as Lorien turning up smacks of a deus ex machina no matter how you turn it, he's canon, and since his motivation for showing up was being appalled how much things between Shadows and Vorlons had gotten out of hand, giving Sheridan a lift as well was not necessary. It would have been interesting, though, to see how he would have been received given that without Sheridan's resurrection, Garibaldi's paranoia would have been seen as the far more reasonable attitude.
So, while I guess the outcome of the Shadow war would have been the same - how about Earth? Again, I suppose with Ivanova substituting for Sheridan as leader, the end would have been much the same… but on the other hand Ivanova might not have been ruthless enough to use the telepaths to disable Clark's ships. Might have taken longer, then, but given that there was internal resistance against Clark's dictatorship within the population (Mars rebellion), the military and even the Psi Corps (though it would have been really interesting to see whether Ivanova and Lyta would have managed to work with Bester post-Z'ha'dum or whether that alliance would have been cancelled long before Face of the Enemy), I'd say the overthrow of Clark & Co., two, and the return to democracy on Earth would have happened without Sheridan.
The Alliance afterwards was mostly Delenn's brainchild anyway, and let's face it, Sheridan's first year in office wasn't exactly distinguished by brilliance. Sheridan put Lochley in an impossible situation by allowing Byron & Co. on board against her judgement while simultaneously not providing any back-up once she had to deal with the consequences. And asdeborah_judge pointed out, Lennier bringing back evidence that seemed to implicate the Centauri (- if Lyta had been the first to report back with her evidence, it might have made all the difference to save Londo from a life with the Keeper and the Centauri from a "bombing into the stone age" and 17 years of Drakh-induced isolation -) was the direct result of the Sheridan/Lennier/Delenn situation, which would not have arisen with a dead Sheridan.
Any contradicting or supporting thoughts?
Meanwhile,andrastewhite and self have made progress with our Trio: The Musical project (any title suggestions would be welcomed), aka Those Scenes of Once More, With Feeling Which Joss Wouldn't Show Us. Here's another excerpt, this time of the scene where the three frame Xander for Andrew's summoning of Sweet.
Melody: Impossible, from A Funny Thing Happened On the Way To The Forum, by Stephen Sondheim.
XANDER passes the TRIO, which is preparing to brainwash him.
XANDER
Why did they look at me that way?
WARREN (to Andrew, curious)
Why did you look at him that way?
XANDER (shrugging)
Must be my imagination!
JONATHAN (starting the hypno spell)
Xander Harris, you're a zero,
You're just like us…
XANDER
Impossible!
WARREN (joining Jonathan)
You're a loser, not a hero;
Don't make a fuss!
XANDER
Impossible!
ANDREW (to himself)
Though he does have a nice chest…
XANDER
This must be some kind of test…
JONATHAN
You're an average boy at best…
ANDREW
Poor old fellow…
JONATHAN
Look, we're on a kind of quest!
XANDER (not yet under)
Which you should forget - impassable!
WARREN
So, before you get a wife
You imagined her - irascible!
ANDREW (finally getting in on the act)
Romping through the library,
You did summon…
XANDER
Will you jokers let me be?
JONATHAN
Harris, just give in to me!
XANDER
What?
Impossible!
WARREN (to Jonathan)
Why does it take so long this way?
JONATHAN
Look, it just has to be this way!
XANDER
I demand an explanation!
WARREN (glaring at Jonathan)
Women often want some music,
You summoned Sweet - it's possible!
JONATHAN (making a renewed effort with the hypno magic)
You only want a happy ending,
So summoned Sweet - it's possible!
ANDREW (proudly)
That really took some demon lore!
XANDER (struggling, but showing signs of influence at last)
…will not take this anymore…
ANDREW (to Jonathan)
It's working - nifty!
XANDER (getting caught up in the spell, but still arguing with his internal logic)
Then again, I'm not my father,
I ought to trust - impossible!
WARREN
Then again, you're such a lapdog,
Which makes it just - so possible.
JONATHAN
Without Sweet, you're ill-at-ease…
XANDER
I don't feel well…
JONATHAN
So you summoned him, and please…
(JONATHAN pulls out some powder with amnesia-provoking qualities and throws it in XANDER'S face).
JONATHAN (continued)
Just forget about us…
XANDER
Sneeze!
He does so, while the Trio hastily withdraws into hiding. Xander shakes his head, looks left and right, tries to think. Then, as if something finally dawns on him:
XANDER
The situation's fraught,
Fraughter than I thought,
With horrible,
Impossible,
Possibilities!
Happy now, [Bad username or site: butterfly? @ livejournal.com]
Season Four - Many people don't like you because
you're dating the wrong guy, but I'll admit to
finding you my favorite. You're still a
college kid, but you're smarter than ever, and
your episodes are turning out better and
better, showing an edge that we didn't know you
had. Your best episode is
"Restless," a perfect cap to the
Scooby dynamic.
Which Season of Buffy the Vampire Slayer Are You?
brought to you by Quizilla
Not bad for this later-seasons-of-Buffy lover, though I had the same problem likehonorh did - my favourite characters, Buffy and Dawn, weren't offered as options in the last question. Also, since season 4 is already slowly but surely gaining within the fandom, I would have loved to be have been the currently much maligned 7. Otoh, Restless - how can I resist?
hobsonphile raised. What if Sheridan had remained dead after Z'ha'dum? Kosh II might have sounded like a callous bastard when telling Delenn that Sheridan's part was done, but I wonder… was it? (Not that I'd ever recommend writing people off just because they're not necessary for cosmic events anymore.) Presumably, despite early difficulties, Delenn, Ivanova and the others could have kept the Alliance together. The Vorlons would have revealed themselves as just as ruthless as the Shadows in any case, which would have helped foster the "no choice between the two of you" attitude. Moreover, much as Lorien turning up smacks of a deus ex machina no matter how you turn it, he's canon, and since his motivation for showing up was being appalled how much things between Shadows and Vorlons had gotten out of hand, giving Sheridan a lift as well was not necessary. It would have been interesting, though, to see how he would have been received given that without Sheridan's resurrection, Garibaldi's paranoia would have been seen as the far more reasonable attitude.So, while I guess the outcome of the Shadow war would have been the same - how about Earth? Again, I suppose with Ivanova substituting for Sheridan as leader, the end would have been much the same… but on the other hand Ivanova might not have been ruthless enough to use the telepaths to disable Clark's ships. Might have taken longer, then, but given that there was internal resistance against Clark's dictatorship within the population (Mars rebellion), the military and even the Psi Corps (though it would have been really interesting to see whether Ivanova and Lyta would have managed to work with Bester post-Z'ha'dum or whether that alliance would have been cancelled long before Face of the Enemy), I'd say the overthrow of Clark & Co., two, and the return to democracy on Earth would have happened without Sheridan.
The Alliance afterwards was mostly Delenn's brainchild anyway, and let's face it, Sheridan's first year in office wasn't exactly distinguished by brilliance. Sheridan put Lochley in an impossible situation by allowing Byron & Co. on board against her judgement while simultaneously not providing any back-up once she had to deal with the consequences. And as
deborah_judge pointed out, Lennier bringing back evidence that seemed to implicate the Centauri (- if Lyta had been the first to report back with her evidence, it might have made all the difference to save Londo from a life with the Keeper and the Centauri from a "bombing into the stone age" and 17 years of Drakh-induced isolation -) was the direct result of the Sheridan/Lennier/Delenn situation, which would not have arisen with a dead Sheridan. Any contradicting or supporting thoughts?
Meanwhile,
andrastewhite and self have made progress with our Trio: The Musical project (any title suggestions would be welcomed), aka Those Scenes of Once More, With Feeling Which Joss Wouldn't Show Us. Here's another excerpt, this time of the scene where the three frame Xander for Andrew's summoning of Sweet. Melody: Impossible, from A Funny Thing Happened On the Way To The Forum, by Stephen Sondheim.
XANDER passes the TRIO, which is preparing to brainwash him.
XANDER
Why did they look at me that way?
WARREN (to Andrew, curious)
Why did you look at him that way?
XANDER (shrugging)
Must be my imagination!
JONATHAN (starting the hypno spell)
Xander Harris, you're a zero,
You're just like us…
XANDER
Impossible!
WARREN (joining Jonathan)
You're a loser, not a hero;
Don't make a fuss!
XANDER
Impossible!
ANDREW (to himself)
Though he does have a nice chest…
XANDER
This must be some kind of test…
JONATHAN
You're an average boy at best…
ANDREW
Poor old fellow…
JONATHAN
Look, we're on a kind of quest!
XANDER (not yet under)
Which you should forget - impassable!
WARREN
So, before you get a wife
You imagined her - irascible!
ANDREW (finally getting in on the act)
Romping through the library,
You did summon…
XANDER
Will you jokers let me be?
JONATHAN
Harris, just give in to me!
XANDER
What?
Impossible!
WARREN (to Jonathan)
Why does it take so long this way?
JONATHAN
Look, it just has to be this way!
XANDER
I demand an explanation!
WARREN (glaring at Jonathan)
Women often want some music,
You summoned Sweet - it's possible!
JONATHAN (making a renewed effort with the hypno magic)
You only want a happy ending,
So summoned Sweet - it's possible!
ANDREW (proudly)
That really took some demon lore!
XANDER (struggling, but showing signs of influence at last)
…will not take this anymore…
ANDREW (to Jonathan)
It's working - nifty!
XANDER (getting caught up in the spell, but still arguing with his internal logic)
Then again, I'm not my father,
I ought to trust - impossible!
WARREN
Then again, you're such a lapdog,
Which makes it just - so possible.
JONATHAN
Without Sweet, you're ill-at-ease…
XANDER
I don't feel well…
JONATHAN
So you summoned him, and please…
(JONATHAN pulls out some powder with amnesia-provoking qualities and throws it in XANDER'S face).
JONATHAN (continued)
Just forget about us…
XANDER
Sneeze!
He does so, while the Trio hastily withdraws into hiding. Xander shakes his head, looks left and right, tries to think. Then, as if something finally dawns on him:
XANDER
The situation's fraught,
Fraughter than I thought,
With horrible,
Impossible,
Possibilities!
Happy now, [Bad username or site: butterfly? @ livejournal.com]
Season Four - Many people don't like you because
you're dating the wrong guy, but I'll admit to
finding you my favorite. You're still a
college kid, but you're smarter than ever, and
your episodes are turning out better and
better, showing an edge that we didn't know you
had. Your best episode is
"Restless," a perfect cap to the
Scooby dynamic.
Which Season of Buffy the Vampire Slayer Are You?
brought to you by Quizilla
Not bad for this later-seasons-of-Buffy lover, though I had the same problem like
honorh did - my favourite characters, Buffy and Dawn, weren't offered as options in the last question. Also, since season 4 is already slowly but surely gaining within the fandom, I would have loved to be have been the currently much maligned 7. Otoh, Restless - how can I resist?
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2003-08-22 11:21 pm (UTC)Somehow, I guessed you might like the concept.*g*
Date: 2003-08-23 06:00 am (UTC)Re: Somehow, I guessed you might like the concept.*g*
Date: 2003-08-23 08:13 am (UTC)And I adore that icon. John/Rygel forever!
*breaks down into giggles*
Precisely!
Date: 2003-08-23 10:08 am (UTC)Re: Precisely!
Date: 2003-08-23 10:08 am (UTC)For the marriage of true minds...
Date: 2003-08-23 10:29 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2003-08-23 02:09 am (UTC)Well yes...
Date: 2003-08-23 10:06 am (UTC)I have to confess I'm not completely of the Marxist view myself, but that's the romantic in me which likes to believe individuals can make a difference. It should better be a lot of individuals, though. And to give all the credit to one person - no. Just no.
Re: Well yes...
Date: 2003-08-24 12:41 am (UTC)And I was just wondering the same thing - why it was so important for Sheridan to come back from the dead. I can see the arc developing without him just as you suggest.
(Ivanova was *great* as commander - I can really see her kicking Clark's behind in a very satisfying way.)
But, I think *some* form of the Sheridan/Delenn/Lennier business was inevitable, since I think it was necessary for Delenn to marry a human. I wonder who it would have been. Susan? Garibaldi? I can definitely see her with Susan, although I don't know if even JMS would have had the guts to write a same sex marriage as an epic fairlytale ending. Although I suppose the other possibility is that she could have become pregnant by Sheridan before he died - heck, anything could have happened during that night together. And I think even if that triangle had somehow been avoided, Morden (and the Shadow allies) would have found some way to destroy Centauri Prime just as completely as it was destroyed. He wanted it so much, after all.
Hm.
Date: 2003-08-24 08:23 am (UTC)Also, I recall JMS originally had wanted the Minbari to be androgynous (with Delenn only becoming female once she becomes half human) and the pilot was still shot on that asumption, but then the WB balked because Delenn was obviously going to end up with the male lead. So I doubt that external circumstances would have led JMS write this storyline.
However, your idea of Delenn already pregnant and the child as said symbol, with Ivanova and Delenn as friends leading the alliance, works as well and would have worked for the squeamish network.
So: how about a Sheridan-less AU from you?*g*
Oh, and yes, I'm afraid the fate of Londo and Centauri Prime were pretty much sealed one way or the other ever since his alliance with Morden. Only the optimist in me hopes there would have been a way...
About Delenn
Date: 2003-08-24 02:31 pm (UTC)Lennier could have dealt with the Minbari civil war, I think he's perfectly capable of it, although probably in a less showy way than Delenn did. Neroon would have had to take on the role of reconciling the humans and the Minbari - and would probably have been very good at it. Marcus would become very very important as Delenn's human student. And maybe, one can hope, there could have been more Marcus/Neroon scenes. And maybe even canon Marcus/Neroon slashiness, we should be so lucky. Meanwhile Susan can marry Sheridan, they'd be great together. Or - Anna could have survived but be somehow transformed.
The only think that really is difficult to imagine without Delenn is a human/minbari child. Maybe they would have brought David from another dimension or something. Or, maybe Sheridan would go into a Chrysalis in memory of Delenn's sacrifice (since she would doubtless have died in a dramatic and significant way) and become Minbari and effect the reconciliation that way.
The problem is, there are no other significant Minbari females in canon. I think JMS would have had to invent one if Delenn had left, just to keep the balance.
Re: About Delenn
Date: 2003-08-27 04:39 am (UTC)Marcus/Neroon: there was slashiness? I totally missed that. Hm. Will look for it when rewatching the episodes.
no subject
Date: 2003-08-30 08:01 pm (UTC)That was really very amusing - and kudos for having the right number of syllables so as not to disturb the rhythm, and everything! (Now I have to go check out the original...)
Secondly, I wanted to reply to Butterfly's post "Friendship and Growth - Buffy, Xander, and Willow" in her livejournal (23-8-03,
http://www.livejournal.com/users/butterfly/776519.html), but couldn't as I'm not a livejournal member. So, hearty apologies if this is inappropriate, but I will post my response here, instead...
Dawn, Willow and Xander
"Buffy and Xander ...both have a close relationship with Dawn that Willow doesn't have."
Butterfly, this is an interesting comment, and something I had never really thought about before. Do you think this closeness between Xander and Dawn has developed in particular over the summer between Seasons 6 and 7, when Xander, Buffy and Dawn basically _are_ the Scooby gang? Willow and Dawn's lack of closeness, while understandable, particularly in light of events of mid-to-end of Season 6, seems really sad to me, because as early as our first exploration of Dawn's character ("Real Me"), Dawn particularly says how much she admires Willow.
I guess once Dawn moved past her crush on Xander she could begin to have a more mature, closer relationship with him (just like Xander and Buffy, as someone pointed out earlier), which is clearly in full force by "Potential."
Thanks,
shehasathree
shehasathree@yahoo.com.au