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Contains spoilers for the second season of Roswell, the third season of Alias, the fourth season of Farscape, Superman Returns, Tristan and Isolde and various screwball comedies



Several recent discussions made me think of one of my least favourite plot devices, which for lack of a better term I'd call The Insignificant Other. You know, the romantic rival who is solely inserted to heighten the angst between the movie's/show's leading couple, and inevitably ends up either revealed as evil or dismissed as unworthy so heroine and hero can finally get together. This usually makes me allergic to the couple in question. Two glaring examples would be the Liz/Max/Tess situation in the second season of Roswell, and the Sydney/Vaughn/Lauren situation in the third season of Alias. I actually stopped watching Roswell because of the way Tess was treated in the final season 2 episodes. There had been considerable character development for her throughout the season, especially via her relationships with the Valentis, and the 180° turnaround to One Dimensional Evil Woman was so blatantly following the need to get the show's leading couple back together again without allowing any audience sympathy for Tess that it put me off the show for good.

The Alias variation was simultanously less and more annoying. Less so because the 180° turnaround came mid-season, which at least did not negate an entire year of episodes. More so because Lauren didn't even get an attempt at interesting characterisation, and again, it was very blatant that her reign as the queen of bad mascara was simply there so there would be no sympathy for her as Sydney's romantic rival, or any need to condemm Vaughn. It felt like very bad fanfic translated to screen - they even had Sydney use the term "soulmate", for Rambaldi's sake! - with the rival of the writer's OTP bashed into a pulp.

Male variations of The Insignificant Other usually aren't evil, unless they are Prince Humperdinck in The Princess Bride, and The Princess Bride is such a lovely homage and send up that it's impossible to mind. No, instead male variations are dismissed as "safe", "boring", not worthy of the heroine's affection as opposed to the exciting, dangerous hero. Classic screwball comedy examples would be the fiances in The Philadelphia Story or His Girl Friday. The one in His Girl Friday is an interesting genderbender example because of course in the original stage comedy by Ben Hecht, reporter Hildy was a man and his fiancee a woman. When Billy Wilder filmed this version, the scene where Hildy is sitting at the typewriter, Walter lights his cigarette and the fiancee, watching this, realizes she's nothing next to this relationship takes on a far more sinister emotional tone, which seems to indicate that male Insignificant Others can be disregarded for boringness alone whereas female ones have to be evil as well, lest one should actually wonder about their feelings.

Now: I'm not against triangles per se. What irritates me about all of The Insignificant Other is that the characters in question aren't granted, well, a life of their own by their authors, silly as this may sound. Say what you want about the most recent Tristan and Isolde, but Marke is written as a sympathetic character there, and not dismissed as evil, boring or insignificant, and the angst comes from both Tristan and Isolde respecting and feeling affection for him, not simply from the "OMG we can't be together" factor. And despite still having issues with Bryan Singer leaving the X-Men franchise to the tender mercies of Bret Ratner for Superman Returns - a film which has its moments but which I did not love - , I can't help but appreciate that Richard White, Lois' fiance in SR, is not an Unsignficant Other, not dismissed as evil, boring or unworthy, either, but written as brave, self-depreciating and loving, with his relationship with Lois still existing at the end of the movie. See, it can be done.

The oddest case of an Insignificant Other in the media I've encountered wasn't even a person. It was, basically, the way Farscape dealt with John and Aeryn in season 4. Now, Farscape is unusual in that the hero and heroine actually go from UST to RST in the very first season. The show got very creative in still finding ways to keep angst and tension between them - John slowly going insane due to the neural chip in season 2, the two Johns situation in season 3, with Aeryn by necessity getting together with only one of them and after that John's death finding it at first impossible to accept the other. All this was connected to larger storylines and made sense given the characters. In season 4, however, the angst stopped being well written and became a case of plot device. Aeryn bringing Scorpius on board and refusing to explain what she did during her summer vacation, John taking drugs so he wouldn't be tormented by his love for Aeryn - if there had ever been any pay-off for these elements, they would probably have looked as good set-ups, but we didn't get pay-off. Instead, by the time "Mental as Anything" came along, the writers obviously decided they got bored with all the angst and separation and had our hero confess to our heroine that he didn't REALLY try not to love her, the drugs weren't addictive, don't you know, he just didn't want Scorpius to know he'd do anything for Aeryn. (Because Scorpius, John-observing genius that he is, clearly would not have figured that out several seasons ago.) And no, he wasn't upset about the silence or the Scorpius-bringing anymore, either. Kiss, reunion, and it was just as blatant as anything that ever happened to Tess or Lauren. (Scorpius was lucky he was male; I suppose if he had been a female character, the show wouldn't have just left it at slashy subtext but would have had him/her having an affair with John in season 4, culminating in his return to being EVIL (tm) and shot by Aeryn and John at the same time before that kiss and reunion.)

(If The Peacekeeper Wars had not been made to wrap up the Farscape saga, this would have put me off Aeryn and John as a couple for good. As it was, I came around again, though of course PKW cheated as well in other ways, but that's another story.)

So what triggers the irritation isn't just the creation/dismissal of a character as a mere plot device, the denial of three dimensional existence to her/him; it is the disrespect shown to the viewers as well, the assumption that they would not care about anything but the separation and reunion of the chosen couple. But this viewer cares, and hopes to not encounter such writing again, vain as the hope may be.

Date: 2007-02-06 07:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] callmesandy.livejournal.com
As someone who watches and loves more than a few soap operas, I've seen so many badly done triangles. But also, how awesome it can be if done RIGHT.

And when it's done right - it's actually interesting and moving. I was just reading an interview with writers for General Hospital and they admitted they themselves couldn't decide who they liked leading lady Carly with - Jax or Sonny, since both options worked so well. And that's the sort of triangle that's actually enjoyable to the viewer, darn it.

Date: 2007-02-06 07:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
Agreed. Well, I didn't watch General Hospital, so I can't say anyting about your particular example, but on the principle - write all three characters with care, and you have a moving, complex story instead of an annoyance.

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From: [identity profile] callmesandy.livejournal.com - Date: 2007-02-06 07:48 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2007-02-06 07:41 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] honorh.livejournal.com
It strikes me that fanficcers of the 'shippy variety enjoy doing this as well. I.e., Evil!Riley in B/S fics, Bitchy!Buffy in A/C fics, you name it. Vilify one character so your favorite pair can get together without hurting anyone's feelings.

My favorite example of the Not-Unsignificant Other recently would have to be Mickey Smith. Sure, he started out as a sort of pathetic, quivering lump, but he had a very satisfying character arc that left him as the sort of man Rose possibly *could* spend the rest of her life with. His rivalry with the Doctor for Rose ended when he decided to pursue his calling, not when Rose rejected him. Gotta love Mickey!

Date: 2007-02-06 07:46 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
Oh, absolutely, it's just like fanfic.

And definitely yes on Mickey. Another example of how it's possible to make the Other interesting and sympathetic. Mickey for the win!

Date: 2007-02-06 08:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] spectralbovine.livejournal.com
Yeah, Mickey annoyed me for a while, but I really liked what they did with his character in the second season. He wasn't just the robot dog!

Date: 2007-02-06 07:56 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] violaswamp.livejournal.com
Creating a character who exists solely for the sake of being bashed is dehumanizing--yes, these are fictional characters, but when we immerse ourselves in a work of fiction they become real to us. And so dehumanizing them is an ugly thing to do.

With Alias, when I first watched S3, I thought they were doing a really good job making Lauren worthy of respect even if she wasn't the most lovable. The decision to make her evil only came on the heels of massive protests by Syd/Vaughn shippers. It wasn't planned, and you can tell this is the case because Lauren's later evil is frankly OOC. It is totally incompatible with Lauren's actions and emotions in "Breaking Point." It also doesn't fit well with that episode where Lauren gets into a car chase with Syd in the passenger seat and the two come to some sort of mutual understanding.

Date: 2007-02-06 07:57 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] violaswamp.livejournal.com
when I first watched S3

The beginning of S3, that is. The part where we see Lauren shoot Sark's father was a total WTF-oh-no-they-didn't-stoop-that-low moment for me.

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From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com - Date: 2007-02-06 08:00 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2007-02-06 07:58 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] thirdblindmouse.livejournal.com
Are love triangles ever done well? Between Gunn/Fred/Wesley (AtS) and Sam/Kara/Lee/Dee (BSG) I'm having serious doubts about the device.

Date: 2007-02-06 08:08 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] spectralbovine.livejournal.com
Oh, the Quadrangle of Doom! Ack!

As I noted below, The Office has been very impressive with its love triangle that's almost a quadrangle. It may have it easy because it's a comedy and thus doesn't have to focus on the drama so much, but that ends up working in its favor by adding a sense of realism to the whole situation.

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Date: 2007-02-06 08:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] spectralbovine.livejournal.com
Interesting post! I was impressed with the way that the John/Aeryn relationship was handled, too, but I didn't buy all the drug crap and the "I didn't mean it" crap and all that other business in S4. But you pegged it! Scorpius is the Unsignificant Other! Huh.

Do you watch The Office? Because I like that the Unsignificant Others are actually Significant.

Date: 2007-02-06 08:14 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
No to The Office watching, unfortunately.

John and Aeryn: like I said, worked for me very well in seasons 1-3 and in PKW, but in s4... *headdesks*

Date: 2007-02-06 08:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ide-cyan.livejournal.com
*contemplates what Farscape would've been like if they'd had Crichton have an affair with (a still male) Scorpius*

*sighs wistfully*

*uses too-rarely used icon*

Date: 2007-02-06 08:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
Well, you know, I'd have been all for the affair in that case, as long as it didn't end with John and Aeryn shooting Scorpy at the end of it and embracing against the sunset.*g*

Also, hey, who knows what happens after PKW...?

Date: 2007-02-06 08:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] likeadeuce.livejournal.com
Well, you know I had to comment so I can use this icon -- I haven't actually seen a version of the original "Front Page" so now I'm intrigued to see how the versions match up. Despite how much I enjoy making jokes about the Ralph Bellamy-role, I have to say I don't mind the actual Ralph Bellamy role in Cary Grant movies (RB in His Girl Friday, and whoever/whatever in The Philadelphia Story) -- because I don't think we're ever asked to believe that Cary Grant is a heroic, unselfish, sympathetic character. The audience just has to believe that Walter/Hildy and Dexter/Tracey belong together because they're a couple of fairly unprincipled people whose qualities happen to complement each other. (And in TPS, while the fiance is disposable, Connor is there as an alt-love interest, and a very much nondisposable one). Also, these are comedies in the classic sense of tweaking the foibles of human nature. Not in the modern "romantic comedy" sense which often translates to "sentimental love story, with jokes."

The problem for me is when, as you said with Syd/Vaughn in Alias, the OTP becomes more important than the story. A 'comedy' example of this is "Sleepless in Seattle," where Meg Ryan's fiance is portrayed as a perfectly nice guy whose worst fault seems to be having allergies, and we're supposed to be pulling for her to leave him for a guy she has literally never met. THIS MAKES NO SENSE TO ME.

Date: 2007-02-06 08:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
The Wilder version of The Front Page has Walter Matthau as Walter and Jack Lemmon as Hildy, and it's definitely worth watching. And absolutely, the audience isn't asked to think of Walter as heroic etc; in the scene I mentioned, he does notice the fiancee standing there and then lights the cigarette for Hildy, who hasn't noticed her, which is as blatant a "I have him and you don't, now go away" as you can get.

And in TPS, while the fiance is disposable, Connor is there as an alt-love interest, and a very much nondisposable one.

Agreed. There is a OT3 shipping manifesto up now, did you see that?

The problem for me is when, as you said with Syd/Vaughn in Alias, the OTP becomes more important than the story.

And the story inevitably suffers. Indeed.

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Date: 2007-02-06 09:01 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] artaxastra.livejournal.com
If the "Other" was interesting, pretty, exciting, or worth paying attention to, then it would be a triangle. And especially when it's a triangle between two men and a woman, if the "other" man isn't boring then women viewers brand the woman a whore and hate on her. Don't ask me why. This didn't used to be the case. Rick and Viktor Laslo are both interesting, handsome and exciting. The viewer may prefer Rick but they understand perfectly why Ilsa might stay with Viktor. Ditto Scarlett/Rhett/Ashley. But for some reason, so many (young?) women today absolutely eviscerate the woman in the triangle as a whore, a bitch, and a demon if one of the men isn't the scum of the earth or so boring and uninteresting that no one would want him. (see icon for example!)

Date: 2007-02-06 09:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
Rick and Viktor Laslo are both interesting, handsome and exciting. The viewer may prefer Rick but they understand perfectly why Ilsa might stay with Viktor.

Absolutely. That was a very well done triangle, with Viktor as a sympathetic character.

But for some reason, so many (young?) women today absolutely eviscerate the woman in the triangle as a whore, a bitch, and a demon if one of the men isn't the scum of the earth or so boring and uninteresting that no one would want him. (see icon for example!)

Oh, yes, those reactions to Elizabeth keep mystifying me, too. Not that people dislike her, but this particular type of evisceration. I'm still reeling from the "dick-hopping" comment...

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From: [identity profile] londonkds.livejournal.com - Date: 2007-02-07 09:38 am (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2007-02-06 09:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] danel4d.livejournal.com
Some things are less love triangles than lines with a little bump in the middle.
But yeah, absolutely - and another consideration that occasionally comes up in the most extreme of examples - it ultimately reflects badly on one of the OTP that they choose to date such ridiculous caricatured evil fiends. It only really tends to go that far in fanfic - but I'm sure some canon portrayals might come close to it.

Date: 2007-02-09 07:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] azarsuerte.livejournal.com
EXACTLY! That's always been one of my main complaints when a love interest for a lead on a show turns out to be boring, evil, whatever--because intentional or not, what they're saying is that their lead has absolutely deplorable judgment. Which, in turn, casts doubt on the wisdom of the current canon pairing, because hey, if they can't tell a good relationship from a bad one, why should we believe they figured it out THIS time?

Date: 2007-02-06 10:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] searose.livejournal.com
With Farscape and its fourth season, I cling to the notion that the showrunners expected to have a fifth season. That they never got, yet David Kemper would not have been facing a fandom united against cancellation, but one divided in reactions going into the fifth.

Sikozu was supposed to have been an Unsignificant Other with John Crichton, but the actress voiced to Kemper that her character would be hated, so that was dropped. Perhaps this was for the best, given the season up to the 'Twice Shy' tag.

I don't know if characters' loyalty in paired affection is sufficient for a default positive response from me. Courtship is sort of a race to a crossing line, but I'm more interested in seeing how people function in relationships, rather than a yes/no resolution to a relationship's beginning. Maybe I'm too jaded for the building hype to any declaration of love, since I figure Happily Ever After entails quite a bit of work.

Richard White was such a stunning example of a perfect romantic and domestic partner for that movie's Lois Lane. If he had superpowers, he'd be the Superman/Clark/Kal-El in the best of the post-Crisis comics. Because Richard was there for contrast, Superman and Lois could be perceived as vaguely repugnant characters for their immaturities and possible deceptions. I'm left wondering why Singer (deliberately?) made his original character that way on screen. The most I can think of is that he intends Richard White to be a Jonathan Kent parallel (the active, near-perfect foster father), and Superman/Clark Kent to be a Jor-El parallel (distant but powerful mentor) to Jason White.

Date: 2007-02-07 03:51 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
Sikozu was supposed to have been an Unsignificant Other with John Crichton, but the actress voiced to Kemper that her character would be hated, so that was dropped. Perhaps this was for the best, given the season up to the 'Twice Shy' tag.

No kidding. I'm very relieved on Sikozu's behalf. And yes, of course a fifth season might have changed the way we look at the fourth season events, depending on the follow-up, yet I can't get over the fact they did not know they'd be cancelled when writing Twice Shy and subsequent episodes, which do look as if we're expected to buy into the fix for the John/Aeryn relationship completely...

The most I can think of is that he intends Richard White to be a Jonathan Kent parallel (the active, near-perfect foster father), and Superman/Clark Kent to be a Jor-El parallel (distant but powerful mentor) to Jason White.

Oh, that's what it certainly looked like to me - Richard as Jonathan and Superman/Clark as Jor-El, I mean. Also, I never had the impression we were supposed to believe Lois would just drop Richard or cheat on him out of overwhelming passion or whatever (and she didn't). (My own problems with the Lois and Clark characterisation were more that this was supposed to be a movie in continuity to Superman I and II, and yet this Lois showed utter disregard for Clark Kent and complete cluelessness regarding the Superman identity, when even with the amnesia ending of Superman II in mind, she was friends with Clark and shown to be smart enough to figure it out. Given the ever so coincidal return of both Superman and Clark to Metropolis at the same time, I really wish they'd have given up the "Lois doesn't know" thing; it wouldn't have changed the plot of SR in any way if she had.)

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Date: 2007-02-07 12:36 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lilacsigil.livejournal.com
Poor Lauren. I was pretty sure she was going to end up dead by the end of the season, but turning her evil just so Sydney and Vaughan could be together without obstacle was sickening. That was the end of my Alias viewing, no matter how much I liked the complex older generation, who seemed to be able to deal with all kinds of triangles!

Superman Returns and X-Men are both good examples of the triangle having virtue on every side, so I'm wondering if Bryan Singer has gone forward in time and read your essay (or had a similar ephiphany himself).

Date: 2007-02-07 04:04 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
My love for the older generation - and yes, indeed, they could! *loves First Gen OT3* - made me continue to watch, and I'm glad I did because I did love the fourth season, and not just for the older generation, either. (I wasn't kidding when saying in an above comment that Lauren as a corpse was written with more consideration than living Lauren; her death was shown to have impact on Vaughn and the relationship with Sydney, and lo and behold, I could stomach it then. Doesn't mean I don't still despise third season Vaughn and the relationship in the tihrd season because of the way the show dealt with Lauren.)

Yes to X-Men the movie as another example of no person in a triangue vilified or regarded as unimportant, though in that case we get into lack-of-screentime-for-Scott issues in the sequels (and the, err, matter in X3, but that wasn't Singer's fault) - I think the comicverse dealt with the Scott/Jean/Wolverine triangle better. But that's a somewhat unfair comparison as of course the comics had years to establish the characters, not two hours per chapter. So yeah, Singer did good all around.

Date: 2007-02-07 04:42 am (UTC)
From: (Anonymous)
"Insignificant Other"

Date: 2007-02-07 09:41 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] londonkds.livejournal.com
You don't need to be passively-aggressively anonymous. Selena's perfectly happy to get English corrections.

Date: 2007-02-07 06:34 am (UTC)
ext_18076: Nikita looking smoking in shades (Default)
From: [identity profile] leia-naberrie.livejournal.com
Here! Here! Well said, particularly about Lauren. I actually wanted to write a rant a long while ago about how much better S3 would have been if Lauren and Sydney had been friends and Lauren didn't turn out to be Evil Queen of Black Mascara. I may still write it, if only as lesson to myself on How Not To Handle Love Triangles.

And yes, two thumbs up for Superman Returns for having an Other Man who was actually: Nice, Brave, Intelligent and Not Dead.

Hmmmm

Date: 2007-02-07 09:45 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] londonkds.livejournal.com
Further possibility that I'm on the borderline over: Lisa in Six Feet Under. 'Cos while she is portrayed with a certain amount of depth, and Nate genuinely grieves for her, I found the show's OTP-ing of Nate and Brenda so transparently strong that I spent most of S3 unable to get into the relationship because I was just waiting for them to be split up. As [livejournal.com profile] callmesandy said above, for a triangle to satisfyingly work there needs to be not just sympathy for all three characters but some genuine uncertainty for the viewer as to whether any of them are going to end up a stable pair.

Re: Hmmmm

Date: 2007-02-07 09:47 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] londonkds.livejournal.com
Hmmm, thinking further I think it's not just sympathy and uncertainty but a sense that all three characters have some reason to be in the story instead of being just an obstacle to the OTP, as I thought Lisa came across as.

Re: Hmmmm

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Re: Hmmmm

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Re: Hmmmm

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Date: 2007-02-07 05:55 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bimo.livejournal.com
Very interesting, readworthy essay!

As my original, somewhat Norrington-centric comment on your post was getting to long, I typed up an LJ entry on my own ;-)

http://bimo.livejournal.com/28242.html

I only hope you are alright with being quoted.

Date: 2007-02-07 08:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
But of course! And yes, Norrington is a fine example for the anti-Insignificant Other.

Date: 2007-02-09 02:40 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] executrix.livejournal.com
The engagement ring is the red shirt of romcom--there are almost no examples in the entire genre of anyone actually marrying his or her fiance(e).

When I saw the first PotC, I thought of Norrington as the nicest ralphbellamy *ever*. (I consider that a noun, like "renfield.")

Of course, in a lot of badslash any canon wife or gf is an insignificant other.

Date: 2007-02-09 06:23 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
Of course, in a lot of badslash any canon wife or gf is an insignificant other.

And it annoys me there to no end as well. Especially when connected of declarations of how character x never truly loved wife/girlfriend or any other woman and never knew love and passion before his night with y....

When I saw the first PotC, I thought of Norrington as the nicest ralphbellamy *ever*. (I consider that a noun, like "renfield.")

So does [livejournal.com profile] likeadeuce!

Date: 2007-02-09 03:23 am (UTC)
erinptah: (Default)
From: [personal profile] erinptah
Wasn't the guy from Titanic an evil male Insignificant Other?

I was pondering the same plot device as used in anime literally this morning. (The anime Insignificant Other is often in an unenthusiastic arranged marriage with one member of the One True Pairing, adding further angst.) I'm so glad I have a term for it now =)

Date: 2007-02-09 06:26 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
Wasn't the guy from Titanic an evil male Insignificant Other?

Never having watched the movie and going by what a gathered via fannish osmosis, I guess he was.

Here via metafandom

Date: 2007-02-09 05:16 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] oyster-district.livejournal.com
Yay for Farscape meta!

I agree with you that fourth-season Farscape works hard to establish sort non-existent borders between John and Aeryn. Mostly it's all about John being a prat, and Aeryn not knowing what to do about it. Interestingly enough, John has to rely on his Insignificant Other once he's pulled his head from his ass -- a relationship that Scorpius insists they seal with a very slashy moment.

Like the others, I'm glad that Sikozu was never really John's Insignificant Other. It's demeaning to her character -- who could never really have liked John anyway -- and it left her open to pursue Scorpius, who actually got some lovely non-evil moments during the fourth season. I'd much prefer some good development of another character than a standard love-triangle.

Re: Here via metafandom

Date: 2007-02-09 06:29 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
Slashy moment: definitely my favourite scene of that episode, the blood sharing...

Scorpius/Sikozu: was a development I loved in s4, and I so agree about Sikozu, who was an interesting and engaging character and would have been demeaned if they had used her as a plot device. (Of course, she later still was used as one in PKW, grr, argh, but not as an Insignficant Other.)

Date: 2007-02-09 08:18 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] kattahj.livejournal.com
Ooh, Unsignificant Other, I like that term. I tend to call them Second Lovers. (A Swedish actor, known for his diverse jobs, once said in an interview: "I've never really done the First Lover, though. Second and Third Lovers, sometimes...") Though that stands for any guy/girl who's not The One, up to and including Richard White and James Norrington.

I think the trouble is that either the films/shows tend to stuff these people into the Douchebag category, or they become... too good. IMO, Richard is better than Superman. Norrington is better than Will. Not to mention the overwhelming consensus in a poll on my LJ that Rebecca is better than Rowena. So in the first case, the hero/ine comes off as an idiot for dating this person in the first place, and in the second case as an idiot for choosing someone else. (Well, not so much Lois, who doesn't. But the rest.)

One show that really worked the balance in a way that felt right for me (which isn't the same as it feeling right for someone else) was Road to Avonlea. Felicity gets engaged to Stuart while she thinks Gus is dead. She's safe with Stuart, he's a good guy, they could have been very happy together. But when she finds out Gus is alive, while it causes her pain, she breaks up with Stuart and goes back to Gus, because her love for him is hands-down stronger. For me, that really worked. I didn't feel she was wrong for wanting to marry Stuart, and I didn't feel she was wrong for not doing it in the end. So while the storyline was pretty contrived in other ways, I have a very special place in my heart for the way it handles this issue.

Date: 2007-02-09 08:21 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
Agreed that it's a tricky balance, but I still think to err on the side of making the Other too sympathetic is better than making him/her utterly repellent.

Rebecca/Rowena: well, so did Scott's readers back in the day. And didn't write Thackeray an entire novella in which Rebecca gets to be with Ivanhoe after all? *g*

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Date: 2007-02-09 10:46 am (UTC)
alias_sqbr: the symbol pi on a pretty background (Default)
From: [personal profile] alias_sqbr
Sorry to sully your fandomy post with icky rom-coms, but apparently (I could be wrong) in both "My Best Friends Wedding" and "A Guy Thing" test audiences liked the (female) insignificant others so much they became the significant others, which I find amusing. Especially since while it worked fine for "A Guy thing" (from the guys POV) it gave "My Best Friends Wedding"(from the girls POV) a very non rom-com ending. It's also given me false hope in other films where the main character is clearly much less deserving of their love interest than their rival.

I think one trope where it's at least believable is stuff like Bridget Jones diary (or any Jane Austen novel :))where the rival is a charismatic, attractive sleazebag and the proper love interest is comparatively sensible and dull but good. I was going to use Colin Firth and Hugh Grant as examples then remembered they've both played both :)

Date: 2007-02-09 08:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
Not having seen A Guy Thing, I agree that My Best Friend's Wedding is atypical and charmingly so in this regard.

I was going to use Colin Firth and Hugh Grant as examples then remembered they've both played both :)

LOL. Yes, they have. And I can think of only one Jane Austen novel where the charismatic sleazebag isn't also the bad guy and gets a happy ending, though not with the heroine, whom he hasn't truly romanced anyway, Emma....

Date: 2007-02-09 07:38 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] azarsuerte.livejournal.com
A hearty "hear hear" to just about everything in this post. I was a Tess fan, and like you her treatment towards the end of S2 turned me off the show permanently. I was thrilled to see Emilie de Ravin get the role on Lost, because it finally forced people to see her as more than just "that evil bitch from Roswell." :-P

Another example of a triangle handled horribly was Diana Fowley on The X-Files. Good grief, even her name was a blatant indicator of her insignificant otherness--'Shippers were only too happy to declare her "The Foul One" before she'd ever appeared on screen. :-P

And then there was Simon Wallace on SGA, who got turned into an Insignificant Other without there even being a romantic rival for Weir's attentions (unless you consider the city of Atlantis a romantic rival *g*). The first two episodes we see him in, he's a very nice guy who's understandably upset about being ditched by his girlfriend so she can run off to another galaxy. Then suddenly in his third appearance, she spends three months getting him the clearance to come with her, only to have him break the news at the LAST POSSIBLE MINUTE that he's found someone else and buh-bye. THAT made me mad, especially because at the end of the first season, Elizabeth had sent him a message GIVING HER BLESSING for him to move on, and yet they still managed to make him look like an asshole for doing so. I hated it as much because of how fickle it made Elizabeth look as for what it did to Simon, who I *liked* even if I didn't necessarily want them to stay together. (And IMO, having them break up because she can't give up Atlantis and he doesn't want to leave Earth was a plenty good enough reason...they didn't have to throw in another woman to make it work. GRR.)

Date: 2007-02-09 08:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
I was thrilled to see Emilie de Ravin get the role on Lost

Same here. She did great work as Tess and so deserved a role that showcased her again.

Diana Fowley: I remember, though I stopped watching around that time - not because of her, because the mytharc had gotten absolutely hopeless.

I haven't watched SGA, but that sounds idiotic and unnecessary, yes!

Date: 2008-01-28 06:27 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] queenofthorns.livejournal.com
Say what you want about the most recent Tristan and Isolde, but Marke is written as a sympathetic character there, and not dismissed as evil, boring or insignificant, and the angst comes from both Tristan and Isolde respecting and feeling affection for him, not simply from the "OMG we can't be together" factor.

It didn’t hurt that Mark was played by Rufus Sewell (well, it didn’t hurt for me, anyway) and that he was the best thing about the movie, IMO. (And I love that Wagner gives Marke music of great beauty and power as well in the operatic version of this tale!)

I actually must confess that I’m a big fan of love triangles, but as you say, they only works if the third point in the triangle is as fleshed out and human as the Chosen Two characters.

Date: 2008-01-28 06:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] selenak.livejournal.com
Great icon, and did you only just write this comment, or did I get it several months later? *is curious about lj's mysterious quirks*

Mark played by Rufus Sewell: oh yes, I agree absolutely. (Also with Marke in Wagner's version.)

You know, thinking of love triangles with all three parties treated fairly by the script - in a sense, The Lives of Others is one, not with the party official (who isn't a rival for Christa-Maria as much as he's an embodiment of entitlement and oppression creating destruction in both their lives) but with Wiesler falling, in a way, for both of them, and he wants them to be happy as a couple because he has become so entranced with their lives and protective of them...

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