BSG 3.18 and Heroes

[selenak]

Firstly, due to recommendations from ashylogic and rozk, I've been catching up and watching Heroes these last days. Thoughts and squee below. Secondly, despite my regular drug supplier being on the road, I found another source for BSG, hence:



Wow. A Lee centric episode. Which is well written and exploring him. And he's interesting and ethical and ...I'm all aglow with nostalgia and hope, as this is the second episode in a row where I'm very fond of Lee again.

On a shallow note: when watching the scenes with Lee and Sam at the start and at the end of the episode, I immediately thought: they're Logan and Scott at the end of X2 and start of X3! likeadeuce is going to love this!

On a character observing note: interestingly enough, Lee and Sam together are both handling the Kara grief way more mature than Adama does. With bad flashbacks to the quadrangle of doom days, you'd expect them to pull a Laertes and Hamlet about Kara, but no, not at all. Instead, they behave like they're in a hurt/comfort fic. (With potential slash, though actually I wouldn't write it, because Lee just repaired his relationship with his wife, and hurt/comfort sex is still cheating.) Meanwhile, Bill Adama is the one who pulls off a Hamlet at Ophelia's grave (and I always wanted to slap Hamlet there - actually, not only there, but that's not the point): you think you're grieving more than me, boy? Do you? Do you? Lords of Kobol.

(That being said, the Kara memorabilia scene with Adama was sweet and touching, especially her father's day card.)

Old Buffyverse aquaintance Mark Sheppard is fab as Baltar's new lawyer. Smart, manipulative, and with hidden motives - clearly, he is my type. Whether or not Caprica Six saw through him remains to be seen (loved the way she returned the pen), but you know, at this point I'm guessing the writers will steal a page from Witness for the Prosecution - Caprica will pretend to testify against Baltar, because nobody would believe her if she testified pro-Baltar, and then at the last point will give the lawyer (and/or Lee) evidence that makes herself look like a liar.

Lee's journey to joining the Baltar defense team made sense to me; of course it's partly about Adama, but mostly it's about wanting to do the right thing, as difficult and harsh as that may be, and Lee Adama is always at his most interesting when he's put in this position.

As to the assassination of Baltar's previous lawyer and the attempts on this one: currently, my money is on the new lawyer being behind them (by bribing and/or manipulating Seargeant what's his name), and yes, at the risk of his own life. Did I mention this man is clearly my type?

***


Now, as to Heroes:



The exact point where I went from "hm, yes, okay, maybe I'll keep watching" to "wow, that was smart, I'll definitely watch further" was the final scene of the pilot. I was looking at my watch and thinking "okay, Peter, having gained his confidence, will fly, classic set-up, why are you dragging this out so long?" And then he jumped, and we got Nathan flying instead. That was such an inspired twist. Because while Peter is the classic Marvelverse superhero, Nathan the determinedly ambitious politician hitting 40 is the kind of person who just never ends up with superpowers in either Marvel or DC (unless, of course, they're villains.) The Petrellis and their convoluted, intense relationship became one of my favourite things about the show.

(Oh, and episode 18's reveal about Mrs. P being a pullstringer behind scenes? Love it. About time we got a matriarch. Also, you have to wonder about Old Man Petrelli committing suicide just before Nathan and Peter would have gone public against him. Just saying....)

And then it turns out Mr. Bennet is a cross between Jack Bristow and Arvin Sloane, which of course made him a favourite as well. When Nathan replies to Peter's "there are people like us!" with asking "dysfunctional?", he summed it up, because the Bennets being in close competition with the Petrellis when it comes to dysfunctionality despite being an outward opposite in terms of colouring (warm, yellow, brown, golden light for the Texas scenes and the Bennet dress code; sharp, black and white, edgy for New York and la famiglia Petrelli). Yes, Mr. Bennet has this "must protect my darling daughter" credo above all else, but he also regularly brainwashed his wife (among many others), and of course he joined "the company" to begin with; nobody forced him.

(Sidenote: originally I thought that the show was setting up Claire and Peter as the leading couple, long distance soul mates who get together at the end, but obviously once Nathan was revealed as Claire's biological father that theory was blown out of the water. Although, given that I watched Carnivale, I shall never be sure again on-screen incest won't happen. But I'm pretty sure that even if it did, it wouldn't be the uncle/niece variety. Not that I'm implying anything.)

Claire shares some obvious traits with first season Buffy - cheerleader whose newly discovered superpowers take her popularity status away and let her bond with the unpopular kids instead - but comes across as her own person rather than just an imitation. She's also thankfully a female hero who helps some people not her family, because I'm a bit uneasy about the gender division on this show. Among the superpowered people, at least; I really liked Clea Duvall's character who was strong, smart, resourceful and not evil, and miss her since she left. Not sure what to think about Niki/Jessica, because on the one hand it's clearly victim-and-good/killer-and-bad, which annoys, but on the other they've given her a backstory which makes sense of the Jessica personality being what she is, and Niki depowering herself.

Hiro and Ando: utterly adorable. As with Sun and Jin on Lost, I'm thrilled that we have two Asian characters who get to talk in their own language with each other, and of course Hiro with his boundless geek enthusiasm - though later somewhat tempered by tragedy - is irresistable. (He even won I-must-be-normal-Nathan around. Seriously, their few scenes together are just lovely. Mind you, given the way Nathan discovered his powers - with his wife getting crippled right on front of him - even a less politically minded man would be at first averse to the whole superheroics thing.) Giving George Takei a cameo as his father was just candy for genre fans, and of course later Hope actually calls Hiro "Sulu".

*dissolves in geek joy herself*

And... we have to wait until April? Not fair!

Comments

[ide-cyan.livejournal.com]

One interesting comics-y tidbit about Heroes is the fact that the two characters who have almost mirroring powers, Sylar and Peter, both have double initials: Gabriel Gray & Peter Petrelli.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Oh, that's right, they have! I noticed the mirroring, of course, but this detail escaped me. And you're right, that's so comics-y.

[queenofthorns.livejournal.com]

you think you're grieving more than me, boy? Do you? Do you? Lords of Kobol.

Heh! He's such a drama-queen. What also struck me about that scene is that (much as with many other things in Lee's life) Adama has absolutely NO IDEA what Kara meant to Lee - I still don't think he knows anything about the proto-affair or anything else.

(Oh, and I hated his line about how HE is capable of being a judge on the tribunal - oh really? After you pointedly said you didn't want Lee on "the other side"? Isn't the impartial judge not supposed to SEE sides - but scoffed at Lee's ability to help Lampkin prepare the case.)

Lastly, oddly enough, this episode was written by the same guy who wrote the two incredibly simplistic issue-of-the-week Helo episodes - I guess he's fine as long as he's not writing Helo?

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I hated his line about how HE is capable of being a judge on the tribunal - oh really?

Because Adama has such a great record of reacting well to tribunals when they don't go his way. Oh, Bill.

Lastly, oddly enough, this episode was written by the same guy who wrote the two incredibly simplistic issue-of-the-week Helo episodes - I guess he's fine as long as he's not writing Helo?

Could be. Or maybe he's a one episode wonder, like Tracy What's her name, who wrote the delightful "Something Blue" in season 4 of BTVS but also the two duds of the season, "Beer Bad" and "Where the wild things are".

[lakrids404.livejournal.com]

Hey!; there are people that likes! "Beer Bad" :). I found that re-watching it, more amusing than when I first saw it, strangely enough.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

*g* thalia_seawood likes it, too. Maybe I should give it another chance...

[wychwood]

Isn't Heroes just awesome? :) I find Bennet fascinating; I can't like him, but he's so interesting to watch. I want Audrey (Duvall) back, too, but generally I'm just loving it all :)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Me too. And hey, I have a track record for liking manipulative mind-messing bastards who think "but I'm doing it for MY PEOPLE" covers it all. *see icon*

[wychwood]

Yes, indeed. Villains with comprehensible motivations who don't think of themselves as evil = WIN. Or, at least, interesting TV! :)

[faroutgal.livejournal.com]

I love that your watching HEROES. Its been such a delightful surprise, a total squee fest.

I also thought we were going to get a Peter/Claire coupling but I think its far more interesting that the chemistry we saw was a response to familial connection. Which is why this show is so smart. And Mama Petrelli is more than what we knew. SQUEEE! I thought she was funny at the hospital telling each son seperately that he was her favorite but now we find out that she is a force in all of this. I can't wait to see her interact with Claire.

FutureHiro and Peter on the subway...one of my all time favorite scenes. HIRO Squee!

Its a great show.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I also thought we were going to get a Peter/Claire coupling but I think its far more interesting that the chemistry we saw was a response to familial connection.

Absolutely. And so much less predictable.

And Mama Petrelli is more than what we knew. SQUEEE! I thought she was funny at the hospital telling each son seperately that he was her favorite but now we find out that she is a force in all of this.

Mama Petrelli is clearly the Godmother. And playing her boys. What intrigues me: when she tries to dissuade Nathan from going to Texas, does she do this a) to protect Claire, because between the FBI and Lindermann, Nathan is guaranteed to be under surveillance most of the time, and Claire doesn't need more attention, b) to protect her sons, because so far, Nathan & Peter might be known to the Company but haven't been mindwiped and isotoped etc., c) her own purposes yet to be revealed or d) all of the above? And is her assessment of Nathan, which Hiro later echoes, her honest opinion or just something she needs to say to keep him from going?

(Note that Nathan tries to avoid looking at Claire's picture when Meredith shows it to him, as if he thinks if he does see her, what his mother predicts will come true.)

I can't wait to see her interact with Claire.

Me too. So far, we've seen Claire with sympathetic or strong male figures (Zach, Peter, Mr. Bennet, the Haitian) and unsympathetic or victimized female ones (Jackie, Mrs. Bennet) - can't wait to see what she and Mrs. Petrelli make of each other!

[faroutgal.livejournal.com]

YES! to eveything you said.

I think I was so excited to find out that the Haitian worked for Mama, not only because it revealed her as a power player but also as a grandmother looking out for her own. The previous ep conveyed someone solely looking to protect her son.

Multiple motivations, familial connections, yes, the very part of Alias that I did enjoy (before the plot got all incomprehensible).

What fun!

And Nathan, yes, he cares too much. He wants to be a hard ass and he's not, tho it seems he can be an SOB at times.

I'm trying to make sense of the power players.

You have Takei/Eric Roberts/and Claire's Dad on one side.

There's Lindermann and somehow, he must be connected to the Petrellis.

And then there is Simone's father. I suppose connected to Takei and co. However, it can't be an accident that Peter was his hospice nurse. Who made that play? Mama or Takei?

So much to think about....and yes, SQUEE!

[miladygrey.livejournal.com]

I got into Heroes late, but I'm glad I allowed myself to be sucked in. The Petrellis and Hiro and Claire...and interestingly, Sylar, who terrifies me but I'm expecting twist-y new developments in regards to him. It looks to me like he doesn't only absorb other powers, he absorbs the personalities of those people (maybe that's because he kills them)--and gradually, those other personalities are going to subsume his own. He'd be a composite hero. On a side note, I wonder if Sylar and Dexter would get along...?

[O]riginally I thought that the show was setting up Claire and Peter as the leading couple, long distance soul mates who get together at the end, but obviously once Nathan was revealed as Claire's biological father that theory was blown out of the water. Although, given that I watched Carnivale, I shall never be sure again on-screen incest won't happen. But I'm pretty sure that even if it did, it wouldn't be the uncle/niece variety. Not that I'm implying anything.

Actually, there's a rabid cabal of fans who are convinced that Peter is adopted. Which would clear the way for Peter/Claire, and also for Peter/Nathan. Which I'm not sure about, but they certainly are touchy-feely for 'brothers'. *grins* It might make sense--since Claire was adopted by the Bennets so they could keep an eye on her, the same might have happened with Peter. Or Hiro, or any of them.

And how much do I love misanthropic Claude and his dysfunctional Jedi relationship with Peter? There is no bad in Chris Eccleston.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

gradually, those other personalities are going to subsume his own. He'd be a composite hero.

Hmm, that would be fascinating development. The old Highlander fan in me thinks "Light Quickening!"

Which I'm not sure about, but they certainly are touchy-feely for 'brothers'. *grins*

As the series progressed, I started to wonder whether they can get through a conversation (no matter whether a hostile or friendly one) without touching. Apparantly not. Not that I object, mind.*g*

Actually, there's a rabid cabal of fans who are convinced that Peter is adopted.

LOL. You know, yes, it would draw a parallel to Claire, and I could see it within the mythology of the show, but then it would be a hell of a coincidence that he was adopted into a family which ALSO has the mutant gene. (As opposed to the Bennets, where everyone but Claire is normal).

And how much do I love misanthropic Claude and his dysfunctional Jedi relationship with Peter?

I can't decide whether Claude is Qui-Gon or Obi-Wan post Episode III (err, in a misanthropic way), with Mr. Bennet as Anakin/Vader.*g*

[ide-cyan.livejournal.com]

Claude? He's Qui-Gon Jinn in Batman Returns.

[ide-cyan.livejournal.com]

...er, Batman BEGINS. Stupid two-word Batman movie titles...

[greenpear.livejournal.com]

I had put Battlestar in the Jump the Shark category for what happened at the end of the second season and the beginning of the third. But yeah, those last two episodes look like they regained their footing a bit. If it continues to the end of the third season in like, then I'll rescind my vote for jumping the shark.

Lee does I'm gonna do the right thing no matter what better than anyone on the show.

I can't believe that Papa Adama lost it so badly over Kara's death. Not like him...

[bitterbyrden.livejournal.com]

Oh, one thing I thought was interesting, which I didn't know if you'd spotted or if it'd been pointed out to you, is that Heroes kind of takes conventional cape-capers (like that? alliteration, whut) and turns it on its head. I had a really hard time with the sexism that I perceived upon first viewing Heroes. Saving the cheerleader, the girls being helpless and supportive if they weren't in direct peril, or outright evil, etc. But then, someone brought up that all the women in Heroes have what are typically used as masculine powers and the males have the feminine. Basically, there are thug powers and then there are squint & faint powers. Regeneration and superpowerful fighters are typically traits given to male heroes. Whereas psychics and time-warpers and to a slightly lesser degree, flyers or invisibles, are the domain of the female heroines.

Just a thought. And, yeah, there are one MEEEEEEELLION exceptions to these rules, but it helped me a little bit, in accepting the new mythology.

Also, I really really dislike the Nikki/Jessica character. And the actress.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I don't have a problem with the actress, and you could say that Niki/Jessica is basically the Hulk (as you point out, a male comics archetype), but she is female, and that's why the "only strong when evil, and when good passive and exploited" thing sits badly with me.

Mind you, I did have fun with those scenes where D.L. finds out that being a single parent isn't what it's cracked up to be, and Micah basically points out to him he sucks at things Niki did as routine...

[ide-cyan.livejournal.com]

...Something just occured to me, as I'm rewatching some more S5 Buffy eps: Nikki/Jessica is basically Ben/Glory.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

*unable to resist misquoting*

"You mean there is a connection between Nikki and Jessica?"

[vonnie-k.livejournal.com]

[O]riginally I thought that the show was setting up Claire and Peter as the leading couple, long distance soul mates who get together at the end

Hahaha, you would NOT believe the amount of wailing and gnashing of teeth in the fandom after Peter and Claire were revealed to be related. I went for the Peter/Claire place as well in their first couple of episodes together, because the actors really have a smashing chemistry, but right now, I'm even more intrigued that the warmth and recognition between them turned out to be familial.

Claire is turning out to be one of my favourtie characters on TV; I saw the Buffy echo as well initially, but they evolved the character enough now that she stands on her own. The awesomeness of Claire, and now the reveal about Mama Petrelli, have gone a long way into assuaging my disquiet about some of the gender politics on the show. (I still find Niki/Jessica problematic though.)

I thought that Bennet-centric episode was the best thing the show has done, hands down. Apparently they meant for him to be a minor guest-star type character, but expanded his role because Jack Coleman, who plays him, impressed the show creator so much. To which I say: thank God for flexible character arcs!

I'm glad you're watching the show! This 6 weeks hiatus is killin' me, I tell you.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Hahaha, you would NOT believe the amount of wailing and gnashing of teeth in the fandom after Peter and Claire were revealed to be related.

I am not surprised.*g*


I thought that Bennet-centric episode was the best thing the show has done, hands down. Apparently they meant for him to be a minor guest-star type character, but expanded his role because Jack Coleman, who plays him, impressed the show creator so much. To which I say: thank God for flexible character arcs!

Quite. And writers and actors using give and take in the creative process. Reminds me of Garak on DS9 that way (he was planned as a one time only guest character)...

[pjferret.livejournal.com]

Heh, and Heroes just keeps sucking more people in. It really is awesome, isnt it? I remember when the commercials were first airing over the summer, my dad insisted there was no way he would watch it. I made him watch the pilot, and he's been hooked ever since. *g*

[selenak.livejournal.com]

It really is irrestistable.

[likeadeuce.livejournal.com]

Sigh, I am really predictable, aren't I? And I totally had the Hamlet + Laertes thought, too (though I totally love Hamlet in that scene; not that I find that mutually exclusive from wanting to slap him, because that's just the way I roll).

Speaking of my type, I also adore Lamkin (sp?) the new lawyer, and will probably try to bribe inlovewithnight to ship him with Lee for me, at some point.

The other person I thought got good lines in this episode was Cally -- she just does not have a lot of self-awareness, in a believable way, where she can say "we should all stick together" and "the Cylons are out to get us," in the same breath.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Did you see the bonus scene with Cally and Athena? V. good.

And oh, yes, Romo Lampkin. Badger from Firefly, who'd have thought it? He's terrific.

Oh, I'm familiar with the mutuality: see also, Londo Mollari, whom I often want to hug and slap in the same scene...