Heroes 2.01 Four Months Later
Sep. 26th, 2007 03:19 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
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wee_warrior is my hero. She knows why. Also, I was going to try at least to sleep for some hours before writing this, but never mind sleep, I'm too keyed up anyway. Oh, show o' mine. You're back. A very good set up episode with a lot of unsolved mysteries, as befits a season start, and some answers no one in fanfic or otherwise has expected. (I.e. Claire calling Nathan. I'm going to squee about that scene later, though.) And the much critisized casting of David Anders as a Japanese hero is, indeed, as promised, a plot point. Now, the light-hearted version would be Hiro teaching Kensei how to be a hero, i.e. be the Luke Skywalker to his Han Solo, with Yaeko the swordmaster's daughter as Leia, but given Kensei's banner, the symbol of the company and the black spot, err, red symbol on the photos, I'm going to make an educated and unspoiled guess and postulate that
a) Hiro ends up becoming the "good" part of Takeo Kensei, i.e. he'll do the actual heroics before returning to the present
b) Meanwhile, David Anders' character will due to Hiro's actions in the past survive when he's supposed to die in feudal Japan and will end up as one of the original founding members of the Company, since I also think
c) His power is similar or identical to Claire's - self-healing and/or resulting immortality (unless his head gets blown off or otherwise removed). He's also the person Kaito sees at the end, and his method of killing Kaito is something he can survive.
d) This will result in a major angst fest for poor Hiro once he makes it back, and lead to Hiro's big duel of the season (as he's going to learn more sword fighting in feudal Japan, rather obviously, given there's a swordmaster's daughter and a swordmaster to be rescued around).
Hiro is his adorable self, and all the little touches - putting his glasses back on once he sees the very white and very blue eyed man supposed to be Kensei, calling him a gajin - are much appreciated. I notice his phrasing - "this is going to be much work", and all the appeals to Kensei; Hiro doesn't cast himself as the hero on a quest any longer, which he did in s1, he just wants to repair the damage. Oh, Hiro. *hugs him*
Meanwhile, Ando is on coffee bringing terms with Kaito Nakamura and being seen as a loyal friend of the family. Though I must say, I thought Kaito sending him away to get a sword made me say "Ando, I can't believe you'd fall for that" as it screamed "go so I can get killed without endangering you". Where is sensible Kimiko, I ask? Presumably leading the company (not that one) as someone has to, and she's good at it.
The Bennets undercover in suburbia: is being played for a mixture of dark humour and low key drama going on underneath, and of course Claire and Noah have already started with the bad habit of secret keeping again. (Not only am I pretty sure Noah didn't tell anyone he's still working on bringing the company down and has added Mohinder to Matt as his recruits, but I'm also 100% sure Claire didn't mention her phone calls to Nathan, either.) I'm in two minds about Sandra - the look when Noah took his phonecall is the only indication we have she is aware of the past and shares the general concern for the present; otherwise it's back to her early s1 self, which makes me wonder whether our HRG hasn't done something to her again. I mean, he wouldn't now. Would he? (That's the problem of a man mindwiping his wife, no matter what his reasons were.) Otoh, liked the grossed out look between Lyle and Claire, which was so sibling-esque. I swear, Lyle and Claire are the only functional non-angsty siblings on this show, and they of course are not biologically related, as opposed to certain other examples.
Speaking of which: so, among our newbies we have these siblings where one has a destructive power and is afraid of hurting people and the other is assuming the protective role; also, they're mistaken for a couple. I'm just saying. Okay, without kidding now, Maya and Alejandro are obvious parallels (and no, not just to Peter and Nathan, also to Niki and Jessica, in their way), though I doubt Alejandro will be with us for much longer; he looks like a redshirt designed to generate some spectacular power display of a grief-crazed Maya to me.
The other newbies: what's his name who thought he was recruiting Mohinder but was really played by Mohinder and Bennet seems to be the new face of the Company, given that Thompson is dead and HRG switched sides, and has the quiet but imposing thing down pat so far. Also, his power is indeed very useful (more than the melting thing Sylar killed the unfortunate Zane Taylor for). As for "Kensei", David Anders is great fun. I'm not actually a Sark fangirl (couldn't understand his popularity in s1, thought he was entertaining but nowhere as interesting als the First Gen spies in s2, really wished they hadn't made him a regular in s3 where there was far too much of him, and found to my amazement I actually liked him in s4 and s5 where he was used sparingly and well; also, "the beautiful man is dying" will forever make me giggle), but I knew Anders could act, and he's obviously having fun here. Good for him and us. If he's indeed being villanous in the present, I'm looking forward to finding out whether he can bring on the menace; that was something Sark was distinctly lacking in, even when killing his bio dad or torturing Vaughn.
And now back to Claire and on to my darling Petrellis, who are more dysfunctional than ever. As I said: that phonecall to Nathan? Never expected it, nor did anyone else I can recall, but loved, loved, loved it. All the time, you see Claire trying to fit in, managing to control herself better than Noah in the end (yes, it was a cool scene, but also a reckless and potentially stupid move, if he really wants to remain below the radar), playing by the rules, never mentioning last years events once (it's HRG who brings them up, not Claire)... and then she makes that call. Which is obviously not the first one, given by the way they talk, the fact he recognizes her phone number at once and the fact she has his. I loved that scene to bits for so many reasons. That she calls him. That she needs to talk, not just about Peter but about everything, the unreality of her new life. The paradox that although he's totally broken and breaks off the conversation, there is a raw reality in the way he talks to her which wasn't there in their few burdened conversations near the end of s1. I always wondered what Claire actually wanted Nathan to be for her, you know; since the father role is already occupied by Noah, and the friend role by Peter (and before him Zach). But she wants him to be something, and given both his current condition and the fact he didn't raise her and hence never got to create a father persona for her in the way he did for Monty and Simon (as mentioned to Niki), she might become the other person in addition to Peter who gets the real deal.
Meanwhile, Nathan and Angela are also fascinating to watch, only in an even darker way. Looks like .07% was a trial run for the fact that while Angela can sincerely mourn for Peter, no matter her schemes - she was alone when she was prostrate over his body in .07%, and she is obviously barely holding it together now - she is completely and utterly incapable of emotionally communicating with her older son in the same circumstance. In 0.07%, the only thing she could say to Nathan was the appeal to his inner politician - interpreting his "what do we do now?" not as "what do we do without Peter" but "what do we do with the body" and replying with her "we hide it until after the election" (to which Nathan said that the election didn't matter now, nor did anything else with Peter gone, and guess what, it doesn't look like he was kidding). Now, in Four Months Later, she can trade accusations with Nathan - and that undignified and painfully real struggle for the photograph - but she can't say anything to him that's about grief and comfort. The language of ambition, the only one she ever used with him, is gone, and she always denied he spoke another. I really hope we get a pre-Peter flashback at some point, because in a way, the relationship between Angela and Nathan is the most screwed up of the lot of Petrelli relationships, which is saying something, and yet he was her only child for a decade if not one or two years more. (My own fanfic guess for this aside, I want canon!)
Angela with Kaito was also great to see. As with her scene with Charles Deveaux in last season's finale, you get the sense of two equals, and Angela doesn't treat any of the younger ones as equals. A pity we never got to see her together with Linderman, but ah, well. Flashbacks? Also, I note that if you add the dead elders to the ones Kaito says are still alive, you have exactly twelve founding members. Niiiice, Kring. When Kaito says "how did you help your son?", which son does he mean? Doesn't matter for Angela, I suppose; she lost both of them as of now.
And Nathan. Not much of Nathan, but what we got was - wow. Incidentally, I'm suspecting just how Nathan survived is going to be a plot point the same way just how Peter ended up in Ireland with amnesia and the Haitian's necklace around his neck, and it might or might not be connected to what Nathan sees in the mirror of the bar, which is either your generic nightmare vision or himself, badly burned, as he would/should be if surviving at all. And he refuses to believe Peter is dead. "When he comes back", not "if", when. And - well. Again, see: 0.07%, Peter's temporary death and Nathan's reation, trial run theory. Not surprised that Heidi took the kids and left, because in that state he really should not be around them (and I think Nathan agrees there), not to mention that Nathan really wasn't kidding when saying sans Peter everything else is meaningless, and that's not something a wife could or should accept. It's not just that very obviously, he's not a Congressman, won election or no won election. He's living in Peter's apartment; he's given up on everything but the insistence his brother is still alive somewhere, and he's spent the last four months going on a self-destructive binge. Though for those of us keeping score on the "does Nathan have moral awareness other than what is good for his family?" question, I want to point out that without Peter, he's still very clear on the fact that the whole let millions die in New York idea was evil. Which is a term I don't think we've heard Nathan use before. (Though he was similarly without euphemisms when talking about the plan to Linderman and Angela, only then it was "this insanity" and "mass murder".)
Nathan's not the only one whose marriage fell apart; though I doubt anyone is sorry for Matt divorcing Janice. Matt and Molly are far more enjoyable and touching to watch anyway, and the idea of him co-parenting with Mohinder amuses me to no end, though we haven't seen that in action yet. I'm going to make another guess: Molly's nightmare villain, despite the symbol, is not identical with David Anders' character, though the two might be allies or one could be the tool of the other.
And in conclusion: oh, show!
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Date: 2007-09-26 01:28 am (UTC)My 2nd favorite part of the episode. And a very close second place at that. Totally unexpected, because in an early interview Hayden said that as far as Claire knew, Peter and Nathan were both dead. I remember being very disappointed, because I wanted her to think that Peter was dead and know Nathan was alive. But the interview was apparently before filming began, so I was surprised in the best way. It was perfectly handled, IMO: "I miss him, too." I love that this is the way she reaches out to Nathan--through Peter. Aw.
I'm always amazed by the efficiency of this show. In that one line, it somehow manages to cover the change in Claire's attitude towards Nathan after his actions in the finale, what she wants from him, the fact that they're both mourning Peter...it's amazing.
It looks like he's even living in Peter's apartment, which is taking Petrelli-emo to whole new levels. Have you been votepetrelli[dot]com? There's a statement from "Nathan" there saying that he's resigning his seat in Congress. The tug-of-war over Peter's photograph was fantastically played. They both sounded tired and weary and just dead. "What are we going to do?" Well, I guess this episode answered that question.
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Date: 2007-09-26 05:58 am (UTC)I'm not sure I read that, but I think I did read one where she said Claire hadn't seen them in a long time. Hayden, you sly girl. Naturally, I thought that meant Claire's storyline would be separate from the Petrellis again for a while and was sad, but now I see I was cunningly misled and am happy.*g*
In that one line, it somehow manages to cover the change in Claire's attitude towards Nathan after his actions in the finale, what she wants from him, the fact that they're both mourning Peter...it's amazing.
Yes. It has been open to debate how she'd interpret Natan's actions in the finale, and how they would affect her attitude towards him in general. And while it had been easy to imagine Claire reaching out to Peter post finale, Nathan is entirely another matter. Oh, show.
...you realize that someone (to wit: self, if no one else does) will have to write something like "Five conversations Claire Bennet had with Nathan Petrelli" during those four months?
It looks like he's even living in Peter's apartment, which is taking Petrelli-emo to whole new levels.
I'd go one step further and say it looks like he's wearing at least some of Peter's clothes. Greato Scotto, as Hiro would say.
Yes, I can guess your favorite part.*g*
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Date: 2007-09-26 01:09 pm (UTC)*flails* You must write this. Must.
I'd go one step further and say it looks like he's wearing at least some of Peter's clothes. Greato Scotto, as Hiro would say.
I thought I was imagining things, but many other people appear to think this, too. Oh, Nathan. :)
Yes, I can guess your favorite part.*g*
This show is pure fanservice. I love it. XD
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Date: 2007-09-26 05:02 am (UTC)PS your comment text box has incredibly tiny text and I can barely see what I wrote! *hopes I made sense*
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Date: 2007-09-26 06:07 am (UTC)(no subject)
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Date: 2007-09-26 07:15 am (UTC)However, there is Kaito's belief that it was one of the other Elders, and I don't think he is wrong. He also clearly recognized the person on the rooftop, so I'm guessing we are not exactly dealing with a mind-controlled killer here, but I agree that the second person disappeared because Ando seemed to be looking for them, and there was no one on the ground with Kaito - which could point to a flyer, or a teleporter - or to some sort of imagery.
My guess is red herring because it seems rather obvious, and at the same time, rather unlikely (he has been sitting around vaguely catatonic for four months and now he's suddenly acting out revenge?). He might be connected somehow, though.
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Date: 2007-09-26 08:05 am (UTC)My only problem with this is that it makes the time line rather brain breaking. Which isn't to say that we aren't already seeing the results of the damaged time line in the present, before we see how Hiro breaks things further. It's just that I'm not sure they'd actually do something that complicated timetravel-wise. For most audience members, that's a migraine right there.
It's much simpler to convey to a large tv audience if the changes to the time line become apparent only after Hiro returns to the present. Not necessarily logical, since he's change things by virtue of his presence in the past, but easier for people to understand.
That she needs to talk, not just about Peter but about everything, the unreality of her new life. The paradox that although he's totally broken and breaks off the conversation, there is a raw reality in the way he talks to her which wasn't there in their few burdened conversations near the end of s1.
Oh yes! Absolutely. There's none of the awkward distance of the S1 conversations. The reason Nathan doesn't want to talk to Claire is that it's just too painful. For her, talking through her pain helps he works through her feelings (being that she is a functional human being). For him, it just dredges up memories and pain and he care barely handle repressing, let alone dwelling on it.
Though for those of us keeping score on the "does Nathan have moral awareness other than what is good for his family?" question, I want to point out that without Peter, he's still very clear on the fact that the whole let millions die in New York idea was evil. Which is a term I don't think we've heard Nathan use before.
I think that, all along, it hasn't so much been that Nathan lacks a moral center, as that he has no confidence in it. His self-awareness of being a shark is actually something that hampers his own ability to judge his morality. He can too easily see how something benefits him, and thus ends up concluding he is doing something good because of that. It's never just a fringe benefit. Which says a lot about his upbringing, I think. Somehow his parents managed to imprint that morality can't be rational on him, and then Peter reinforced that with his kind of lovey-dovey morality.
Anyway, lacking the potential for failure (for disappointing Peter), lacking the desire for personal gain, I think he's got a new perspective on his own morality. Deep down, he always had these gut feelings, he just never trusted them until there was nothing else left.
I'm going to make another guess: Molly's nightmare villain, despite the symbol, is not identical with David Anders' character, though the two might be allies or one could be the tool of the other.
Absolutely agreed. Which, actually, is another reason I don't necessarily think it's Kensei who killed Kaito, time line issues aside. It the Nghtmare Guy is haunting Molly's dreams, making Nathan hallucinate, and probably making Nathan plant the threatening photos, then either Kensei has to be the Nightmare Guy, or he can't be involved in that stuff at all. Right now, I actually think the murderer is a superpowered drone controlled via dreamwalking. Very probably someone that the Company got it's paws on, too. Maybe Claire's new boyfriend?
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Date: 2007-09-26 08:36 am (UTC)Considering the problems they still have with the three timelines of 5YG, you're probably right.
For her, talking through her pain helps he works through her feelings (being that she is a functional human being). For him, it just dredges up memories and pain and he care barely handle repressing, let alone dwelling on it.
And that would be yet another reason why it's a good thing Claire was raised as a Bennet.*g* But yes. And I love that the phone call means they're actually going to have a relationship this season, so very much.
I think that, all along, it hasn't so much been that Nathan lacks a moral center, as that he has no confidence in it.
Probably true, and I think his arc for the first half of the season will be to develop that, being forced to live both without Peter and without his old agendas. And to find out what his belief system actually is.
Very probably someone that the Company got it's paws on, too. Maybe Claire's new boyfriend?
He'd have to be able to fly from the West Coast to the East Coast rather quickly then, even counting the sonic thing. Otoh, this is the show where Hiro sits down in Vegas and meets Nathan about what looks an hour later despite the fact Nathan in the previous scene was still in New York....
But I like the idea of Nathan as a red herring and someone else dreamwalk-controlled as the assassin, too. Though again, I point out to Kaito recognizing the person on a very personal level, which I don't think would fit either Nathan or West or a mind-controlled random guy.
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Date: 2007-09-26 09:02 am (UTC)We are definitely of one mind here, right down to the theory that Kensei will be the one who killed Kaito. They just used a particularly lightly build stunt person, and Anders is just, well. Not that broadly build. And doesn't creating your own supervillain have a longstanding comic tradition?
I also agree that Kensei likely isn't Molly's Big Bad, but that they're working together - and that MBB has something to do with Nathan's hallucination/mirror-self, because I've been wondering if his power is along the lines of tweaking people's perceptions. Like a turnover of Candice's power, if you will. (It could technically cause nightmares I think.)
Oh, Hiro. *hugs him*
He is so adorable, but very prone to worship questionable people, I'm afraid. Another point that makes me think Kensei will precisely not turn out to be Han Solo. Not everyone has Nathan's Very Vague White Knight complex.
Though I must say, I thought Kaito sending him away to get a sword made me say "Ando, I can't believe you'd fall for that" as it screamed "go so I can get killed without endangering you".
I thought the same at that point. Also, I was disappointed that we still didn't get to see Kaito's power in action, but at least his scene with Angela was great. Speaking of which - did they retcon the deaths of Linderman, Deveaux and Petrelli, or was it just a sign that Kaito was somewhat out of the loop? I thought Charles at least had died of natural causes.
When Kaito says "how did you help your son?", which son does he mean?
Fits for both, doesn't it? I thought he meant Nathan, actually, since Nathan apparently was the son the Petrellis planned to involve in Saving The World, and that's what his dialogue was about, but Angela seemed to understand Peter, thus the slap.
I hope Kimiko will come back eventually. At the very least when Hiro comes home. (Kaito waiting so patiently for him to return was a great character moment.)
I'm in two minds about Sandra - the look when Noah took his phonecall is the only indication we have she is aware of the past and shares the general concern for the present; otherwise it's back to her early s1 self, which makes me wonder whether our HRG hasn't done something to her again. I mean, he wouldn't now. Would he?
I hope not, although she seemed as if she still had after-effects from her previous mindwipes. The way she kept talking to Mr. Muggles really reminded me eerily of certain elderly ladies I know.
what's his name who thought he was recruiting Mohinder
Apparently, he is called Bob. Which just now makes me wonder if TPTB have been watching Twin Peaks lately, given that they also have a creepy guy turning up in people's dreams.
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Date: 2007-09-26 09:27 am (UTC)No kidding. He sometimes looked like he ws 12 on Alias, and only vaguely older and heavier now, and that's in full Samurai regalia.
And doesn't creating your own supervillain have a longstanding comic tradition?
It does, which Hiro should know.
He is so adorable, but very prone to worship questionable people, I'm afraid. Another point that makes me think Kensei will precisely not turn out to be Han Solo. Not everyone has Nathan's Very Vague White Knight complex.
No, and also I think they will avoid dublicating the Hiro-Nathan relationship via Hiro and Kensei, so Kensei will definitely not be Han Solo.
(Sidenote: I sometimes find it amusing and sometimes irritating that such a lot of fanfic has Claude invisibly bodyguarding Peter post-Parasite because it shows people falling for the cliché of the cynic with a golden heart who always comes through with the rescue of the young idealist (i.e. the Han thing), and I found it rather refreshing, CE's commitment phobia aside, that Claude actually meant what he said: get out of town instead of getting blown up, never mind the irritating kid he only knew a few days.)
Speaking of which - did they retcon the deaths of Linderman, Deveaux and Petrelli, or was it just a sign that Kaito was somewhat out of the loop? I thought Charles at least had died of natural causes.
I was wondering that as well, but given that at least with Linderman we can be sure the death was not New Big Bad caused, it might be the later. After all, Nathan is in the position of making an educated guess who killed Linderman, but Angela wasn't in the season finale, and why should Kaito be? For all he knows, it could have been that third party. Charles, well, we don't know yet what Charles' power was, but given his tete a tete with Peter in the finale it's very likely it has something to do with dreams, so in theory, the villain could have killed him that way, as presumably Peter as Charles' nurse for several months would have noticed if the guy was being poisoned. (One hopes.) Petrelli Senior - well, if you were Angela's old friend, would you take her word on it being suicide? *veg*
I thought he meant Nathan, actually, since Nathan apparently was the son the Petrellis planned to involve in Saving The World, and that's what his dialogue was about, but Angela seemed to understand Peter, thus the slap.
Which is so Angela. Ah, Petrellis.
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Date: 2007-09-26 04:04 pm (UTC)That's pretty much how I saw it, too. Awesome and subtle Angela characterization. I really think she sees Peter as her son, first and foremost. I'm still not sure how she sees Nathan, but when Kaito refers to "your son," she's going to think of Peter first. That slap was awesome, by the way.
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Date: 2007-09-26 09:04 am (UTC)*nods wildly*
Seriously, my jaw dropped when I saw that. What a complete turnaround from last season, emotion-wise, even though Nathan is in such a bad condition. And it's such a great illustration of Claire's character, that she is neither angry at him for being distant, nor let's herself be pushed away completely. (And while I understand and absolutely endorse Heidi's decision, I am glad that Nathan has at least some sort of emotional support.)
Now, in Four Months Later, she can trade accusations with Nathan - and that undignified and painfully real struggle for the photograph - but she can't say anything to him that's about grief and comfort. The language of ambition, the only one she ever used with him, is gone, and she always denied he spoke another.
Something that I still think is valid is that Angela is probably also simply angry at him, because in her eyes, he did kill Peter, and even though she knows that it is actually her own fault - I think her reaction to Kaito's remark shows that - she won't be able to admit it, and punishing Nathan by withholding any chance of sharing their grief is a way to circumvent her own guilt.
I thought it was interesting that they both invoked Dear Old Dad as some sort of morally superior authority, which is something Nathan has of course done before. Here, however, he uses it against Angela, and I'm not entirely sure if it indeed hit home, or if he just thinks she feels this way about his father because he himself does. Either way, I think it can only point to Papa Petrelli actually being horrifyingly evil. (Also, they jossed our idea. He wasn't an alcoholic!)
A pity we never got to see her together with Linderman, but ah, well. Flashbacks?
I definitely hope so. I found out Linderman's canon name btw, and it's not Alexander, sadly enough, it's ... Daniel. Yet more biblical names, it seems.
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Date: 2007-09-26 09:36 am (UTC)Same here. I just saw there is already phonecalls-over-the -last-months fanfic linked at Ninth_Wonders, which is good because I want one and would have had to write it despite being frightfully busy otherwise!
Angela is probably also simply angry at him, because in her eyes, he did kill Peter, and even though she knows that it is actually her own fault - I think her reaction to Kaito's remark shows that - she won't be able to admit it, and punishing Nathan by withholding any chance of sharing their grief is a way to circumvent her own guilt.
I think her "he doesn't love you the way you love him" in the pilot is an early sign of this projecting, only now it's multiplied via the context of Peter's supposed death. Only she can't react as fanfic has also speculated she would - by cutting off Nathan altogether - either. I think the fact she shows up at his/Peter's apartment, despite him being no one's champion anymore right now, is both punishment, self punishment and a completely dysfunctional and repressed need to be with her son.
I found out Linderman's canon name btw, and it's not Alexander, sadly enough, it's ... Daniel. Yet more biblical names, it seems.
Kring'd already. Well, I picked Alexander because of Malcolm McDowell, of course.*g* Daniel - who interprets dreams and comes to judge - is an interesting choice...
Now we still need Papa Petrelli's name!
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Date: 2007-09-26 10:59 am (UTC)He's also the person Kaito sees at the end, and his method of killing Kaito is something he can survive.
I thought so too and the irony of it would be well nigh irresistible. Poor Hiro.
sure Noah didn't tell anyone he's still working on bringing the company down and has added Mohinder to Matt as his recruits
I was highly amused by the fact that he'd picked on the one person absolutely guaranteed to be able to flush out the Evil Overlord type *g*. Interesting that HRG couldn't follow his own advice to keep a low profile, though I highly approved of his method of dealing with a petty dictator as a boss. HRG doesn't need superpowers to be awesome.
I'm in two minds about Sandra - the look when Noah took his phonecall is the only indication we have she is aware of the past and shares the general concern for the present;
I think she is aware of the past, she's just desperately trying to repress it and pretend everything is normal. The knowledge of what happened is there but she doesn't want to examine it all too closely and believes that by burying it she can keep things on an even keel for Claire and Lyle. That's my guess anyway but knowing HRG I could be wrong.
that phonecall to Nathan?
Perfect, wasn't it and obviously not the first one. She has one father telling her to be normal so she's turning to the one to whom she doesn't have to pretend anything. That phone call, truncated though it was, was full of honesty from both of them.
Not much of Nathan, but what we got was - wow.
Yup, used sparingly but perfectly. The scene with Angela was absolutely fascinating in its intensity and Angela has totally lost any hold she might have had on Nathan. While I don't believe for an instant it was Nathan who killed Kaito I can see that his belief that Angela is evil might lead him on a crusade against all she stood for. I can't wait for more Petrelli dysfunction - shame I'm about to go on holiday!
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Date: 2007-09-26 12:12 pm (UTC)Yes, oh yes.
I thought so too and the irony of it would be well nigh irresistible. Poor Hiro.
And Kaito used to read him the Kensei tales, too!
I was highly amused by the fact that he'd picked on the one person absolutely guaranteed to be able to flush out the Evil Overlord type *g*.
Mohinder: attracting evil unfailingly since 2006.*g* And HRG puts it to good use.
Perfect, wasn't it and obviously not the first one. She has one father telling her to be normal so she's turning to the one to whom she doesn't have to pretend anything. That phone call, truncated though it was, was full of honesty from both of them.
And oh, the irony, as both Claire and Nathan started last season in intense denial about unnormal things. There's already phonecall fanfic, excellent one, and I might give into temptation anyway and write some phonecall fanfic myself. I mean, four months are four months!
I can't wait for more Petrelli dysfunction - shame I'm about to go on holiday!
Petrelli dysfunction is the best. How long will you be gone? And if you're going to the states, maybe you can catch some eps live?
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Date: 2007-09-26 01:01 pm (UTC)Now, the light-hearted version would be Hiro teaching Kensei how to be a hero, i.e. be the Luke Skywalker to his Han Solo, with Yaeko the swordmaster's daughter as Leia, but given Kensei's banner, the symbol of the company and the black spot, err, red symbol on the photos, I'm going to make an educated and unspoiled guess and postulate that
a) Hiro ends up becoming the "good" part of Takeo Kensei, i.e. he'll do the actual heroics before returning to the present
That goes along the lines of my own speculation, yeah.
b) Meanwhile, David Anders' character will due to Hiro's actions in the past survive when he's supposed to die in feudal Japan and will end up as one of the original founding members of the Company, since I also think
Ohh! *intrigued*
c) His power is similar or identical to Claire's - self-healing and/or resulting immortality (unless his head gets blown off or otherwise removed). He's also the person Kaito sees at the end, and his method of killing Kaito is something he can survive.
Yes, others have speculated, and the person throwing him off the ledge was small-ish and skinny, after all.
d) This will result in a major angst fest for poor Hiro once he makes it back, and lead to Hiro's big duel of the season (as he's going to learn more sword fighting in feudal Japan, rather obviously, given there's a swordmaster's daughter and a swordmaster to be rescued around).
Oh, Hiro. I love him so.
I thought Kaito sending him away to get a sword made me say "Ando, I can't believe you'd fall for that" as it screamed "go so I can get killed without endangering you". Where is sensible Kimiko, I ask? Presumably leading the company (not that one) as someone has to, and she's good at it.
Same here. I didn't think of Kimiko, though -- I think she's very much moored in reality, an economic leader and not central to the Heroes plot.
The Bennets undercover in suburbia: is being played for a mixture of dark humour and low key drama going on underneath, and of course Claire and Noah have already started with the bad habit of secret keeping again. (Not only am I pretty sure Noah didn't tell anyone he's still working on bringing the company down and has added Mohinder to Matt as his recruits, but I'm also 100% sure Claire didn't mention her phone calls to Nathan, either.)
That part was admittedly cool, and I really liked the father/daughter parallels, different as these two characters are.
Re: 1/2
Date: 2007-09-26 01:50 pm (UTC)Ohh! *intrigued*
IMHO, the effect Hiro will have on Kensei is that he does make him see the big picture, only it's not the big picture in the positive sense Hiro means. And of course surviving into the present for centuries is also bound to have an effect on the man. Conversely, maybe Hiro while doing the Kensei heroics of legend does have a positive inspirational effect on Kensei, and the man spends a few centuries doing good things in the background; but then he meets our Elders in their younger days and they found their organization. And get corrupted. And turn against whoever "Kensei" is by then, and do something unspecified bad to him. Which is why he's now killing them off, with the added incentive he's also bitter about Hiro? Which is why Kaito says "of all of them, I never expected it to be you?" (Which to me settles it's not Nathan, mind controlled or compos mentis, and has to be one of the remaining nine.)
Or maybe that's too complicated, and my original theory - Hiro causes him to survive when he was supposed to have died, and he goes on to become a supervillain because sometimes that does happen to cynics - is the correct one.
Yes, others have speculated, and the person throwing him off the ledge was small-ish and skinny, after all.
Indeed. If it's not him, it could be West but for the fact he lives on the wrong side of the continent because the assassin is build like a teenager.
no subject
Date: 2007-09-26 01:01 pm (UTC)Hee. Yup.
Speaking of which: so, among our newbies we have these siblings where one has a destructive power and is afraid of hurting people and the other is assuming the protective role; also, they're mistaken for a couple. I'm just saying. Okay, without kidding now, Maya and Alejandro are obvious parallels (and no, not just to Peter and Nathan, also to Niki and Jessica, in their way), though I doubt Alejandro will be with us for much longer; he looks like a redshirt designed to generate some spectacular power display of a grief-crazed Maya to me.
I actually feared Alejandro was gone for good halfway through the episode; that he made it back through the jungle and to Maya came as a bit of a surprise.
If he's indeed being villanous in the present, I'm looking forward to finding out whether he can bring on the menace; that was something Sark was distinctly lacking in, even when killing his bio dad or torturing Vaughn.
Sark was heartless, I felt, but he wasn't scary or creepy, see, respectively, Arvin and Sylar.
I always wondered what Claire actually wanted Nathan to be for her, you know; since the father role is already occupied by Noah, and the friend role by Peter (and before him Zach). But she wants him to be something, and given both his current condition and the fact he didn't raise her and hence never got to create a father persona for her in the way he did for Monty and Simon (as mentioned to Niki), she might become the other person in addition to Peter who gets the real deal.
I like that idea. Their exchanges never struck me as particularly familial and Nathan not as someone paternal with her; it gives us the chance for a meaningful and, yes, true relationship.
Nathan and Angela were the second-best Nathan bits, in my opinion, but I haven't looked at them as closely as you have. & ;-)
Like you, I like the Elder Heroes in general, and not just because their powers are still largely a mystery. (I do hope Kaito's powers will be revealed post-mortem, and a little bit of Charles Deveaux wouldn't go amiss!)
Though for those of us keeping score on the "does Nathan have moral awareness other than what is good for his family?" question, I want to point out that without Peter, he's still very clear on the fact that the whole let millions die in New York idea was evil. Which is a term I don't think we've heard Nathan use before. (Though he was similarly without euphemisms when talking about the plan to Linderman and Angela, only then it was "this insanity" and "mass murder".)
*nod*
and the idea of him co-parenting with Mohinder amuses me to no end, though we haven't seen that in action yet.
I KNOW. & :-D I saw the "Molly Has Two Daddies" idea crop up earlier and was too amused to feel spoiled, even.
Molly's nightmare villain, despite the symbol, is not identical with David Anders' character, though the two might be allies or one could be the tool of the other.
Said the same thing, yup.
Finally, here is my review:
http://monanotlisa.livejournal.com/638389.html
no subject
Date: 2007-09-26 01:59 pm (UTC)I agree. He was bright and able as a villain, but it was also apparant why he invariably ended up working for Irina, Arvin or the US goverment or the Covenant or whoever the villain d' jour was instead of remaining solo. Which is why I'm looking forward to finding out whether my Kensei theory is correct because that would demand Kensei-in-the-present to be scary, which would be a new quality for Anders to project.
Nathan and Angela were the second-best Nathan bits, in my opinion, but I haven't looked at them as closely as you have. & ;-)
He. I noticed that Mohinder gets about one sentence in my review and Nathan gets about one sentence in yours. :) Such are the glasses through which we watch the show! I will say that I would have written more about Mohinder if it hadn't been 2:50 in the morning, because I actually thought his scenes were interesting, and I was very amused that HRG put Mohinder's villain-attracting quality to good use because I had suggested that as a joke last season (i.e. using Mohinder as an unfailing villain detector). And that despite my being such a Nathan fangirl, I managed to miss the first time around what a lot of other reviewers caught, that he bumps into Ando early on (before Ando brings Kaito his newspaper and coffee, which is I guess where all the "Nathan planted the photos, either under mind control or on his own" theories in other reviews come from).
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Date: 2007-09-28 05:24 pm (UTC)I couldn't agree more and loved the scene for the same reasons. It was so poignant how much their relationship has changed if you compare this interaction with their awkward encounters in S1. He is the only person she has left who she can talk to, who knows about her powers since Noah clearly doesn't want her to acknowledge them. And now after she finally accepted her power, after she realized that this is who she really is, it must be so hard for her to suppress that. It also really shook me the way Nathan flinched when she begged him not to hang up and when she said she couldn't do this anymore he wanted her to clarify. He seemed so torn between his desire to push her away because it pained him too much and not wanting her to feel so lost. I really hope we see more of them but I'm suspecting that West is going to fill that role for her soon.
Meanwhile, Nathan and Angela are also fascinating to watch, only in an even darker way.
Their confrontation was the most powerful scene of the episode for me. It's amazing how much pain and anger Adrian can convey without raising his voice once.
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Date: 2007-09-28 09:04 pm (UTC)And it's such an irony that in a sense his arc throughout the first season was about refusing to acknowledge his powers, coming to terms with them and finally using them in an act of love. (Not completely unrelated sidenote: I don't think Nathan flew since the explosion, but not anymore because he's embarrassed, in denial or repressing but because the act of flight now is connected to what happened with Peter.) Which was the last Claire saw of him. I think another factor why she finds it easier to talk to Nathan than Noah about this entire aspect of her life is that while Noah, who loves her, undoubtedly would sympathize about the Peter matter in the sense of being sorry for her sense of loss, he's a most of all a pragmatist. A dead Peter means one potentially incredibly powerful person who can turn into a living bomb is not around to endanger everyone. Whereas Nathan's feelings on that matter aren't in doubt for her anymore.
He seemed so torn between his desire to push her away because it pained him too much and not wanting her to feel so lost.
Indeed. You know what this also reminded me of? The Petrelli communication paradox as practised by Nathan in the early s1 episodes with Peter, simultanously brushing him off verbally while pulling him close physically, putting his arms around him etc. It's the phone equivalent, in a way. And as I said, I think it's also that he doesn't have a father persona for Claire, a practised role to fall back on, but he feels connected to her, and so he's simultanously responding and trying not to when she reaches out to him. I love how that scene in so few words makes clear they must have many conversations like this before. (I just rewatched; he immediately knows it's her, and Claire's "I get it, I get why you do this" means she knows his current circumstances, not just the having resigned from his seat thing but where he is and how he lives.)
I really hope we see more of them but I'm suspecting that West is going to fill that role for her soon.
Yes and no. I think West is going to be a confidant about the powers for obvious reasons, but he hasn't been through any of the trauma Claire has been through (or if he has, it doesn't show; of course we can't be sure yet, not knowing his backstory), he probably still is at the powers = nifty and nothing else stage. So while he will encourage her with hers, he's not part of what has happened. What's more, given that Claire seems to know what condition Nathan is in, and that she's functional and thus aware shutting yourself off from all human contact is not a good thing, I'm guessing she's calling Nathan not just because she needs someone but because she's aware he does, no matter what he says. So I think and hope she won't stop calling him.
It's amazing how much pain and anger Adrian can convey without raising his voice once.
Truly. And he has such wonderfully expressive eyes. That was such an incredibly intense scene. Christine Rose was fabulous, too, adding all sorts of layers to it. The actors for the Petrellis are just so very, very well cast and bring out the best in each other.