Torchwood 2.09 Something Borrowed

[selenak]

That was...surprisingly enjoyable. You know, given that two of the plot premises are genre tropes I usually don't like.



To wit: alien/demon pregnancy and wedding catastrophe. However, points for the twists they came up with. For starters, Gwen doesn't lose her mind or ability to make decisions, isn't the damsel in distress but gets to save her own mother while having to deal with the alien inside and the alien outside, and aside from the plot device itself is in no way victimized. Also, the wedding happens, and Rhys is still alive and well at the end. AND neither Gwen or Rhys, despite all that happens, doubt for a moment that they want to get married in the first place.

Mind you, I'm pretty sure most Jack/Ianto'shippers will dislike the episode for the last but one scene, or to be specific one line of dialogue spoken by Jack in it. And will blame Gwen for it instead of Jack, because that's what happens with male and female characters. (I am always baffled when I read comments like "Gwen has been throwing herself at Jack all season". No, she hasn't. She has shown signs of a big crush, but also has been consistent about not acting on it. And we've yet to spot a single sign of jealousy directed towards Ianto. Jack was one one who had been showing signs of possessiveness and acted like a jerk towards Rhys in Meat.) My own take as a non-shipper on this is pretty much the same as it has been before: Jack likes Ianto beyond enjoying the sex, loves him as a part of the team, but he's not in love with him. He's not in love with Gwen, either, but if Rhys wasn't around, he probably would have had sex with her by now, so she's a might have been for him. For her part, Gwen is attracted to Jack and has a crush mixed with hero-worship going, but she's not in love with him, either. She is exactly with the man she wants to be with. And I doubt we'll get an affair or platonic pining in subsequent episodes. The dance was pretty much a gooybye dance to might have beens.

This being said, I do think Jack's reply to Gwen's question what he'll do while she's on her honeymoon - "pizza, Ianto, saving the world" - while being fairly typical for Captain Sex Joke (see also: his reply to Gwen's question about alien meat in Meat) wouldn't have been said if he actually was in love with Ianto. (Can't imagine Jack joking about the Doctor that way.) So I can understand why shippers would be upset.

The photos at the end: former Torchwood members, people Jack had affairs with/loved or both? (Other than the woman in white, in that case it's obvious.)

Rhys' and Gwen's parents disliking each other was pretty much standard comedy, well executed, though the Jossverse fan in me can't help but notice that neither set of parents is depicted as evil or maltreating their child. And as I said, Gwen saving her mother and especially the way she does it rocked.

The second shapeshifter was pretty much monster of the week, and I rolled my eyes when she played out a castration fantasy early on, but it was worth it for that three women (Gwen, her mother, the shapeshifter) showdown.

The subplot with Tosh: good for her to turn down Mr. Smarmy, managing to spot the black blood of the shapeshifter immediately and make the right deduction, and being lovely and competent throughout. Owen asking her for a dance at the end was predictable but given the understated way they played it non-saccharine and gentle, and I liked it.

The dialogue: was quite quotable, what with:

Jack: What is it with you? Ever since Owen died, you keep agreeing with him.
Ianto: I was brought up to speak no ill of the dead. Even if the dead do most of the talking themselves.

Oh, and Owen teaching Rhys how to use the scanner was great not just because it made Rhys instrumental to the solution but because it showed that one of the results from last week is that Owen IS aware of his limitations and asks for help accordingly.

Now I'm bracing myself for the storm of indignation and Gwen-bashing as I go looking for reviews.

Comments

[kalypso-v.livejournal.com]

I think the main problem with the episode is that, although it's mostly played for laughs, we end up with one horribly murdered guest, who probably wouldn't have been murdered if the wedding had been postponed (which Rhys himself wanted to happen). The counter-argument is that someone else, and perhaps several people, would probably have been murdered in Cardiff if they'd stayed there, and therefore it was better to contain the damage in a very remote spot where all witnesses could be retconned. But nobody actually mentions that: it's all "should Gwen get married today or not?"

[ffutures.livejournal.com]

Very good point. Just remembered a quote that sums it up perfectly, especially the last word...

We do what we must because we can
for the good of all of us except for the ones who are dead.
But there's no sense crying over every mistake,
you just keep on trying 'till you run out of cake,

Jonathan Coulton - Still Alive

[selenak.livejournal.com]

True about the party guest; I suppose that given this episode was meant as the comedy relief after the very dark and intense Owen arc, they didn't want to treat this death - and the question whose fault it was - as "real". But the guy is dead.

[ceindreadh.livejournal.com]

My biggest problem with the episode was that nobody even considered until half way through the episode what the consequences of lying to Gwen & Rhys's parents about the pregnancy.
I know that Gwen figured it out half way through, but surely somebody in the group should have mentioned before then how wrong it was to tell them 'good' news today and then devestate them the next day.

[technosage.livejournal.com]

As a shipper, I'm more annoyed by the inconsistent writing of Jack's feelings for Ianto. Sometimes Ianto is far more than a loved bed partner, and other times Ianto is simply a convenience.

I think that's consistent with Jack's fundamental selfishness, and with the Avatar Alpha growth arc for him. But given that Ianto wants more from Jack than he's getting, and he's inconsistently written too - sometimes bold and confident and other times fearful of getting kicked - that it's frustrating to watch.

The show's been consistent about Jack/Ianto not being OTP. So I can't really be unduly aggravated; just wish that Ianto was getting what he deserves and what he wants in the same person.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

As a shipper, I'm more annoyed by the inconsistent writing of Jack's feelings for Ianto. Sometimes Ianto is far more than a loved bed partner, and other times Ianto is simply a convenience.

Well, I don't see Jack being very (and tenderly) concerned for Ianto and knowing at once Ianto couldn't possibly be a killer in Adam as inconsistent with Jack not being in romantic/exclusive love with Ianto. He cares deeply for him, no question about it; but not in an OTP way. And when has Ianto been shown as fearful of getting kicked this season? Post-date conversation in the opener, he came across as confident in his relationship with Jack to me. (Adam always excepted, due to special circumstances.) Their conversation in "The Last Man" wasn't Ianto fretting about how Jack feels about him but whether or not Jack still feels out of time and like an exile in the here and now.

Mind you, given that Ianto was engaged to Lisa, I think you're probably right about him wanting a traditional romantic relationship per se, but does he want it with Jack?

Lastly: my own interpretation of Jack's "I came back for you" was that he meant neither Ianto or Gwen but what he says after - "all of you". You plural. They weren't exactly subtle with the Jack-and-team theme this season. And we've also gotten examples of how loving the team enables Jack to do both good and pretty selfish things in regards to them. The later in Meat re: Gwen, and of course the resurrection re: Owen. The attitude towards Ianto fits right in.

[technosage.livejournal.com]

I'm not an OTPer, nor do I think Ianto's specifically looking for a one-on-one traditional romantic relationship with Jack. I do think he's fallen in love, and I do think he worries about Jack going and leaving him/all of them behind again. From "we...dabble" and "we're not like that" I think it's clear Ianto doesn't know quite how to classify his relationship with Jack, and interviews with JB and GDL confirm that's how they're playing the boys right now. Where it goes from here is anyone's guess.

IMO, there's always going to be a divide in how a shipper (no matter what you ship) views storylines and how a non-shipper does. There's also always going to be a divide based on what your interpretation of a character's baseline personality is. I understand Ianto to be a beta in the wolf-pack sense, defining himself in terms of his Alpha and serving the pack. Ianto confirms this for me, to some extent, in "Adam" and also in some of the materials on the Beeb website that are maybe canon, maybe no. He says he's always been Lisa's caretaker, and it seems he shifted that role to Jack when Lisa died. Whether or not that coincides with wanting the same one on one with Jack he had with Lisa, I don't know. I'd guess not. Jack's a lot of man and a lot of life for one man to handle, but he definitely does seem to want some recognition of status from him that he hasn't yet gotten.

Since much of this depends on interpretation and I don't feel any particular need to convince you of mine (yours is coherent and consistent with canon in my opinion, just different), I think we're going to have to agree to disagree. Fandom's all over the map when it comes to how to understand what Jack's doing with Ianto and Ianto with him, nos surprise, and to my mind that's what makes the show go round in all the good ways! :)

[londonkds.livejournal.com]

On my flist the Watsonian complaint tends to be healthier "Jack is acting like an arsehole and toying with Ianto" rather than blaming Gwen for Getting Between Teh Boys, and drowned out by Doylist paranoia of "The writers are privileging het romance over meaningless gay sex and will probably pair Jack/Gwen by the end of the season after killing off or shafting Rhys and Ianto". But my flist tend to be more the politically committed feminists/queer rights people rather than the more id-driven shippers.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I've found a mixture of both id-driven shippers and the Doylist paranoia you mention by now. Which I think won't come true, for the reason I mentioned before: one of Jack's defining characteristics is the whole omnisexual/constant flirt thing. Which means they're not going to OTP him with anyone, either male or female. As for Rhys and/or Ianto getting killed, they played the "Rhys dies" card in the last finale, and I seriously doubt they'll repeat it (with the only difference being a permanent death). Especially since they pushed the "Jack might be fantasy, but Rhys is the real deal" thing from Gwen's angle in this season. Even in Adam, when she can remember Jack but can't remember Rhys, she starts falling in love with Rhys in the last third of the episode.

Ianto's survival chances: I hadn't thought about it before, but given that a lot of people wonder whether or not Owen will be permanently dead in the finale (which I doubt, given Burn Gorman mentioned in an interview he'll be back in the third season), it would be an unexpected twist if Ianto were the one to die permanently. Still, I really, really doubt it. We already had our big "cast member dies, fallout ensues" thing this season, and again, I doubt they want to rinse and repeat. My money is on everyone surviving the finale, and Gwen's and Rhys' marriage surviving as well, though whether or not the Jack/Ianto thing will, I have no idea.

[kalypso-v.livejournal.com]

There's the possibility that one of the team is a sleeper (episode two), and if so I know who my money's on.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

If someone is a sleeper, my money is on Ianto as well, but I'll stay away from the internet the day after. The howls of fury would be deafening. Even in a virtual sort of way.

Otoh: they're obviously going there with the whole Grey (Jack's little brother) thing, so I think the more likely angst scenario is that Jack will have to choose between saving Grey and saving one or several team members, and Ianto is a candidate for that as well.

[ceindreadh.livejournal.com]

If someone is a sleeper, my money is on Ianto as well, but I'll stay away from the internet the day after. The howls of fury would be deafening. Even in a virtual sort of way.

But would they really go for a second 'Ianto betrays the team' storyline? (and I'm not just saying that because he's my favourite!)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Well, if he was a Sleeper, it would not be by his decision, as opposed to the Cyberwoman incident. Though I think that because EVERYONE had their turn at betrayal last season, they won't make any member of Torchwood this season into a traitor, against their will or not.

[ceindreadh.livejournal.com]

Well, if he was a Sleeper, it would not be by his decision, as opposed to the Cyberwoman incident. Though I think that because EVERYONE had their turn at betrayal last season, they won't make any member of Torchwood this season into a traitor, against their will or not.

True enough. And I was mentally freaking out at the possibilty of any of the team being a Sleeper, and then I remembered that they've all been injured on the job so if they were Sleepers then their force fields would have prevented injury (not to mention the blood samples having been taken from all the team)

Of course Continuity and Torchwood aren't always on speaking terms!

[ticketsonmyself.livejournal.com]

Now I'm curious! Who do you think the sleeper is?

[ticketsonmyself.livejournal.com]

Never mind, just reread the comment thread! I think selenak's already covered everything I can think of, though.

[ticketsonmyself.livejournal.com]

I can sort of see both of those complaints, especially "The writers are privileging het romance over meaningless gay sex," given the awkwardly charged, vaguely star-crossed vibe the show often had going between Gwen and Jack (whereas a lot of Ianto/Jack apparently took place offscreen). I really hope that the Gwen/Jack pining is done now that she and Rhys are married, though. It would be a bad move to kill off Ianto or Rhys this season, for the reasons selenak mentioned below - which doesn't rule out that the show won't go there, of course. I'm not really fond of Ianto myself, what with the erratic characterization the writers are just beginning to fill in, but my opinion of Torchwood would have to fall if he did get killed off.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

We did have meaningless destructive het sex, though, in s1 with Gwen and Owen, in theory juxtaposed to meaningful or at least constructive in a hurt/comfort way Jack/Ianto; in practice the problem was that Jack/Ianto had not much on screen development - in s1, mind you. In s2, I buy them as being in a relationship because they actually get scenes beyond the occasional innuendo or kiss, as their conversation in "To the Last Man".

[ticketsonmyself.livejournal.com]

We did have meaningless destructive het sex, though, in s1 with Gwen and Owen

Ah, yes, of course. Yeah, I ended up fast-forwarding through about 1/3 of most early S1 episodes because of that - I found the whole thing pretty wince-inducing.

in practice the problem was that Jack/Ianto had not much on screen development - in s1, mind you. In s2, I buy them as being in a relationship because they actually get scenes beyond the occasional innuendo or kiss, as their conversation in "To the Last Man".

Yes, I agree. I hope we'll get more scenes with them, and that they'll keep developing Ianto in the context of their relationship and outside it.

[ticketsonmyself.livejournal.com]

On the rewatch, I also noticed the little Ianto/Jack scene after Ianto buys Gwen's dress - was filled with affection at Ianto's "My father was a master tailor" line; I actually paused and laughed. Good job on incorporating a nice, casually intimate moment for them, writers! I'm looking forward to more Ianto development, or what we can get.

[ticketsonmyself.livejournal.com]

And will blame Gwen for it instead of Jack, because that's what happens with male and female characters. (I am always baffled when I read comments like "Gwen has been throwing herself at Jack all season". No, she hasn't. She has shown signs of a big crush, but also has been consistent about not acting on it. And we've yet to spot a single sign of jealousy directed towards Ianto. Jack was one one who had been showing signs of possessiveness and acted like a jerk towards Rhys in Meat.) My own take as a non-shipper on this is pretty much the same as it has been before: Jack likes Ianto beyond enjoying the sex, loves him as a part of the team, but he's not in love with him. He's not in love with Gwen, either, but if Rhys wasn't around, he probably would have had sex with her by now, so she's a might have been for him. For her part, Gwen is attracted to Jack and has a crush mixed with hero-worship going, but she's not in love with him, either. She is exactly with the man she wants to be with. And I doubt we'll get an affair or platonic pining in subsequent episodes. The dance was pretty much a gooybye dance to might have beens.

Non-shipper here, and I completely agree with all of this, especially about Gwen & Jack (and fandom attitudes toward Gwen/Jack). *thumbs up*

[ticketsonmyself.livejournal.com]

By the way, what do you think was up with the additional line "I need stability, Jack, someone I can rely on," in the opening flashback? It wasn't in "Kiss Kiss Bang Bang," and it seems a clumsy move to include it here.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Actually, I think it was a clumsy move in order to heighten the tension and make fans think Gwen would ditch Rhys at the last minute, so the fact that the episode ends with her and Rhys as a happy couple comes as a surprise.

I honestly don't think they'll have Gwen pining after Jack. Though there could be foreshadowing for an eventual Jack/Ianto breakup, but not because of Gwen, because Ianto might want someone to rely on, too. Note that in the dance sequence, after Ianto has taken over dancing with Jack, when we see Gwen again she's looking at and laughing with Rhys, entirely focused on him. Whereas Jack looks distracted and doesn't look directly at Ianto, making this dance pretty different from the obvious precedent in Captain Jack Harkness. It's probably meant to indicate he's thinking of Mystery!Woman in the photo as much as of any current people around, but either way, he's thinking of other people.

[ticketsonmyself.livejournal.com]

Actually, I think it was a clumsy move in order to heighten the tension and make fans think Gwen would ditch Rhys at the last minute, so the fact that the episode ends with her and Rhys as a happy couple comes as a surprise.

That makes sense!

Though there could be foreshadowing for an eventual Jack/Ianto breakup, but not because of Gwen, because Ianto might want someone to rely on, too. Note that in the dance sequence, after Ianto has taken over dancing with Jack, when we see Gwen again she's looking at and laughing with Rhys, entirely focused on him. Whereas Jack looks distracted and doesn't look directly at Ianto, making this dance pretty different from the obvious precedent in Captain Jack Harkness. It's probably meant to indicate he's thinking of Mystery!Woman in the photo as much as of any current people around, but either way, he's thinking of other people.

On a rewatch, I don't think they'll have Gwen pining after Jack either, for the reasons you mentioned. Phew. I agree with you about the contrast between Gwen/Rhys and Jack/Ianto when they're dancing. (I didn't think of the parallel in "Captain Jack Harkness," though I probably should have!) Yes, I think Jack is thinking of other people while he's dancing with Ianto, which could well be foreshadowing for Ianto later deciding to break up with Jack. I thought that scene with Jack alone in the Hub, blowing the confetti from his palm and grinning, is another little thing that shows how Jack's at peace with Gwen marrying Rhys.

[vitruvian23.livejournal.com]

It's starting to get a little silly with the continuing disbelief in aliens, though, when DW shows London abandoned because of the last two Xmas specials. Or do only people who live in London really believe in those events? Even if that's the case, I thought the Cybermen were in every city in the world.

[lefaym.livejournal.com]

My own take as a non-shipper on this is pretty much the same as it has been before: Jack likes Ianto beyond enjoying the sex, loves him as a part of the team, but he's not in love with him. He's not in love with Gwen, either, but if Rhys wasn't around, he probably would have had sex with her by now, so she's a might have been for him. For her part, Gwen is attracted to Jack and has a crush mixed with hero-worship going, but she's not in love with him, either. She is exactly with the man she wants to be with. And I doubt we'll get an affair or platonic pining in subsequent episodes. The dance was pretty much a gooybye dance to might have beens.

For the record, I do ship Jack/Ianto, and I pretty much agree with everything you say here, except that, so far as Jack and love is concerned, I don't think he sees a huge dichotomy between loving someone and being "in love". Mind you, I agree that Jack isn't in love with Ianto in the way that most people understand it, and I think the same holds true for Ianto's feelings about Jack. As I see it, Jack loves lots of people, and he has sex with lots of people, and sometimes the two coincide. That doesn't mean that he's going to start planning to set up house every time it happens, but it also means that relationships can be significant to Jack even if they aren't going to end in twoo wuv.

Oh, and I like Gwen too.