Season 4 dvds
Nov. 19th, 2008 06:54 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
selenakGuess what I hold in my hands? The season 4 dvds! *pets shiny, shiny favourite New Who season*
It has a lot of new audio commentaries (i.e. commentaries not identical to the podcast ones that were downloadable from the BBC after the episodes got broadcast), of which I've heard three so far (David Tennant and Catherine Tate for Fires of Pompeii, Georgia Moffet, Catherine Tate and Ben Foster for The Doctor's Daughter, RTD, David Tennant and Catherine Tate for Journey's End). What it doesn't have, as opposed to earlier seasons, is that much video diary from David Tennant (given his mother died that year, I think it's understandable), but there is one for the shooting of the s4 finale to celebrate everyone and their metal dog coming back, which is just lovely (and downright hilarious, as when DT, CT and BP are in a car watching the Sarah Jane, Mickey and Jackie scene being shot and John Barrowman literally jumps among them into the car as well). Especially the part where DT, sounding every bit like the hopelessly smitten fanboy he is, says "hello, Lis - I can't tell you what it means to have you with us again" to Elisabeth Sladen (think of the way the Doctor says "Sarah Jane Smith, oh Sarah Jane Smith" in their first scene in School Reunion), they watch Davros together and she tells him about doing the audio commentary for Genesis of the Daleks and what it means for her to be here as well.
(In the audio commentary for Journey's End, there is much Sarah Jane and Lis Sladen fanboying and -girling, too. Case in point:
DT: *worries for a sec Rusty cut Sarah Jane's goodbye scene with the Doctor, is very relieved this is not the case, as they did the audio commentary when watching the episode for the first time, even before all the special effects were done*
RTD: As if I would ever cut a line of Sarah Jane!
DT: It's so odd, having a scene with Lis. Each and every time I hear her voice I'm a child again and think Sarah is just the coolest woman on the planet.
and:
DT: *geeks about about Sarah Jane and Davros*
RTD: You know, there were Captain Jack and Rose and the fact she made him immortal, and I did have a line about that in the script which ultimately went out, and Martha and Rose, what with Martha having lived with the existence of Rose for a year, but what do I spent time with? Sarah Jane and Davros. I couldn't help it. It's the fanboy in me.
DT: But of course! You couldn't do anything else! )
In the leaflet coming with the DVD set, there is a love letter from RTD to the actors, including the guest stars down to the taxi driver in Partners in Crime. He's quite mushy at times with CT and DT in the commentary as well, singling out, not suprisingly, the DoctorDonna scene in the TARDIS ("here you are so brilliant - well, you two always are together, but here you, I could watch this endlessly, you're just magic together" etc. etc.) and the Donna breakdown/ memory wipe scene (wherein DT gets mushy as well and talks about CT making him and the director, Graeme Harper, cry with being awesome and heartbreaking in each take). And then this culminates in CT mushiness:
RTD (watching): The best of friends. They were. So cruel.
DT: Well, you wrote it!
RTD: Well, yes! I had to. It still guts me. Speaking of, Catherine, you gutted me when you said to Doctor Who magazine that you'd been ready to do another season now!
CT: Well, I would have if you'd have done a fifth season, Russell. I would have moved to Cardiff for you, I tell you!
RTD: You mean we could have had a second season of the Doctor and Donna? But then I'm the one who thought you wouldn't even give us one, with your career and...
CT: Let me take this opportunity to thank you, Russell. For writing this brilliant part for me, this character to act. And this fantastic scene.
(One of these days I'm going to do the post on how actors, for the most part, simply don't have the same pov which viewers and fans do, with this being a case in point, because while viewers are all "poor Donna, RTD, how, could you?", CT is "what a chance to act my heart out, Russell, THANK YOU !!!!!")
Best bits from the commentary for Fires of Pompeii: CT asking DT during the soothsayer scene whether he thinks the Doctor has a really embarassing name, like Keith, the two of them telling the tale of how the cast in Rome went to dinner and there was a rodent
(DT: And the best part about this was that it sent our unflappable producer, Phil Collinson, standing on a chair and crying like a five years old girl. And it was just a mouse!
CT: It was a rat.
DT: Nah, rats are much larger. It was just a wee mouse!)
and DT teasing CT about her Bradley Withford/Josh Lyman crush again.
In The Doctor's Daughter: CT and Georgia Moffet who apparantly get on like fire suffer the occasional case of the giggles, and you don't get much serious character stuff, though there is some; they like the Hath with Martha quite a lot and wanted to hug him every time they saw him on screen, and they stop with the kidding during the Donna-makes-the-Doctor-listen-to-Jenny's hearts scene as well as during the death scene to admire DT's acting and declare him to be awesome. Apparantly Alice Throughton (no relation) who directed the episode interrupted after DT's rendition of "yes" to Jenny's question whether he fought and killed in a war to tell him how fantastic he was. There's also the anecdote of Georgia Moffet's son Ty running after a patient DT on set and awaiting him behind the fake doors which you might already know from interviews, due to the kid being a fan (and crushing grandpa Peter Davison's heart by declaring Ten to be his favourite Doctor).
As for the deleted scenes, they come with brief explanations by RTD as to why they were deleted, and you can see his point, which mostly was about pacing, except for the scenes which he introduces separately, the ones the late Howard Attfield shot as Geoff Noble, Donna's father, for Partners in Crime, which then were reshot with Bernard Cribbins as Wilf. Even aside from the "last footage of dying actor" factor, which leaves a lump in your throat, they're really good, as warm and touching as the ones between Donna and Wilf in the broadcast version.
Of the most interest in terms of the characters: the framing scenes for The Unicorn and the Wasp which feature old Agatha Christie trying to remember what happened to her at the start, and at the end the Doctor and Donna visiting her to bring back her memories and tell her about her immortality as a writer. If you go by the interpretation of Agatha as a Donna avatar, then her telling the Doctor that "my memories of that day were gone, but so were the pain and the bitterness of my life at that point; I could start living again, a new" takes on another layer.
Already widely known in fandom is the deleted bit from the beach scene in which Brown Doctor gives Blue Doctor a bit of the TARDIS so he can grow his own and travel through the Alt!Verse, which RTD cut because a) Julie Gardner put her foot down, and b) ultimately the TARDIS coral didn't work and looked twee. DT in the audio commentary says he thinks it was the right choice because it would have looked like the promise of another story - i.e. the one of Alt!Ten travelling in his new TARDIS - which "we have no intention of telling", which would have been wrong. Rusty sounds less sure because he doesn't like to think of the Doctor, any version, as Earth bound. What doesn't come up at all is the implication of Donna's reply to Rose's "but what about you?" (to Realverse Ten, who then says "I'll be alright, I have Madam") - "Just what Skinny Boy needs, an equal", i.e. that Rose is not; either this didn't occur to anyone during shooting, or it was intentional.
The original ending was another case of Julie Gardner putting her foot down; it has Donna in the kitchen hearing the TARDIS noise and for a second recognizing it), saying that either Donna remembers or she doesn't, and since we've just established remembering would kill her, there would be viewers imagining Donna collapsing in the kitchen and dying while the Doctor takes off, which RTD acknowledged was true, so out it went. Then there was the repetition of the traditional "What?" cliffhanger gag which Benjamin Cook talked him out off as inappropriate; DT in the audio commentary says he's ever so grateful because that means he could shoot the Christmas special without having to wear a wet shirt for days.
Lastly: ...and then there is the bit where DT and RTD argue about whether or not Catherine Tate should now be listed among the actors who played the Doctor. (CT: Do people argue about that kind of thing? DT & RTD with one voice: YES!!!!). New Who: for good or ill, what happens when fanboys get in charge. Oh, show.
It has a lot of new audio commentaries (i.e. commentaries not identical to the podcast ones that were downloadable from the BBC after the episodes got broadcast), of which I've heard three so far (David Tennant and Catherine Tate for Fires of Pompeii, Georgia Moffet, Catherine Tate and Ben Foster for The Doctor's Daughter, RTD, David Tennant and Catherine Tate for Journey's End). What it doesn't have, as opposed to earlier seasons, is that much video diary from David Tennant (given his mother died that year, I think it's understandable), but there is one for the shooting of the s4 finale to celebrate everyone and their metal dog coming back, which is just lovely (and downright hilarious, as when DT, CT and BP are in a car watching the Sarah Jane, Mickey and Jackie scene being shot and John Barrowman literally jumps among them into the car as well). Especially the part where DT, sounding every bit like the hopelessly smitten fanboy he is, says "hello, Lis - I can't tell you what it means to have you with us again" to Elisabeth Sladen (think of the way the Doctor says "Sarah Jane Smith, oh Sarah Jane Smith" in their first scene in School Reunion), they watch Davros together and she tells him about doing the audio commentary for Genesis of the Daleks and what it means for her to be here as well.
(In the audio commentary for Journey's End, there is much Sarah Jane and Lis Sladen fanboying and -girling, too. Case in point:
DT: *worries for a sec Rusty cut Sarah Jane's goodbye scene with the Doctor, is very relieved this is not the case, as they did the audio commentary when watching the episode for the first time, even before all the special effects were done*
RTD: As if I would ever cut a line of Sarah Jane!
DT: It's so odd, having a scene with Lis. Each and every time I hear her voice I'm a child again and think Sarah is just the coolest woman on the planet.
and:
DT: *geeks about about Sarah Jane and Davros*
RTD: You know, there were Captain Jack and Rose and the fact she made him immortal, and I did have a line about that in the script which ultimately went out, and Martha and Rose, what with Martha having lived with the existence of Rose for a year, but what do I spent time with? Sarah Jane and Davros. I couldn't help it. It's the fanboy in me.
DT: But of course! You couldn't do anything else! )
In the leaflet coming with the DVD set, there is a love letter from RTD to the actors, including the guest stars down to the taxi driver in Partners in Crime. He's quite mushy at times with CT and DT in the commentary as well, singling out, not suprisingly, the DoctorDonna scene in the TARDIS ("here you are so brilliant - well, you two always are together, but here you, I could watch this endlessly, you're just magic together" etc. etc.) and the Donna breakdown/ memory wipe scene (wherein DT gets mushy as well and talks about CT making him and the director, Graeme Harper, cry with being awesome and heartbreaking in each take). And then this culminates in CT mushiness:
RTD (watching): The best of friends. They were. So cruel.
DT: Well, you wrote it!
RTD: Well, yes! I had to. It still guts me. Speaking of, Catherine, you gutted me when you said to Doctor Who magazine that you'd been ready to do another season now!
CT: Well, I would have if you'd have done a fifth season, Russell. I would have moved to Cardiff for you, I tell you!
RTD: You mean we could have had a second season of the Doctor and Donna? But then I'm the one who thought you wouldn't even give us one, with your career and...
CT: Let me take this opportunity to thank you, Russell. For writing this brilliant part for me, this character to act. And this fantastic scene.
(One of these days I'm going to do the post on how actors, for the most part, simply don't have the same pov which viewers and fans do, with this being a case in point, because while viewers are all "poor Donna, RTD, how, could you?", CT is "what a chance to act my heart out, Russell, THANK YOU !!!!!")
Best bits from the commentary for Fires of Pompeii: CT asking DT during the soothsayer scene whether he thinks the Doctor has a really embarassing name, like Keith, the two of them telling the tale of how the cast in Rome went to dinner and there was a rodent
(DT: And the best part about this was that it sent our unflappable producer, Phil Collinson, standing on a chair and crying like a five years old girl. And it was just a mouse!
CT: It was a rat.
DT: Nah, rats are much larger. It was just a wee mouse!)
and DT teasing CT about her Bradley Withford/Josh Lyman crush again.
In The Doctor's Daughter: CT and Georgia Moffet who apparantly get on like fire suffer the occasional case of the giggles, and you don't get much serious character stuff, though there is some; they like the Hath with Martha quite a lot and wanted to hug him every time they saw him on screen, and they stop with the kidding during the Donna-makes-the-Doctor-listen-to-Jenny's hearts scene as well as during the death scene to admire DT's acting and declare him to be awesome. Apparantly Alice Throughton (no relation) who directed the episode interrupted after DT's rendition of "yes" to Jenny's question whether he fought and killed in a war to tell him how fantastic he was. There's also the anecdote of Georgia Moffet's son Ty running after a patient DT on set and awaiting him behind the fake doors which you might already know from interviews, due to the kid being a fan (and crushing grandpa Peter Davison's heart by declaring Ten to be his favourite Doctor).
As for the deleted scenes, they come with brief explanations by RTD as to why they were deleted, and you can see his point, which mostly was about pacing, except for the scenes which he introduces separately, the ones the late Howard Attfield shot as Geoff Noble, Donna's father, for Partners in Crime, which then were reshot with Bernard Cribbins as Wilf. Even aside from the "last footage of dying actor" factor, which leaves a lump in your throat, they're really good, as warm and touching as the ones between Donna and Wilf in the broadcast version.
Of the most interest in terms of the characters: the framing scenes for The Unicorn and the Wasp which feature old Agatha Christie trying to remember what happened to her at the start, and at the end the Doctor and Donna visiting her to bring back her memories and tell her about her immortality as a writer. If you go by the interpretation of Agatha as a Donna avatar, then her telling the Doctor that "my memories of that day were gone, but so were the pain and the bitterness of my life at that point; I could start living again, a new" takes on another layer.
Already widely known in fandom is the deleted bit from the beach scene in which Brown Doctor gives Blue Doctor a bit of the TARDIS so he can grow his own and travel through the Alt!Verse, which RTD cut because a) Julie Gardner put her foot down, and b) ultimately the TARDIS coral didn't work and looked twee. DT in the audio commentary says he thinks it was the right choice because it would have looked like the promise of another story - i.e. the one of Alt!Ten travelling in his new TARDIS - which "we have no intention of telling", which would have been wrong. Rusty sounds less sure because he doesn't like to think of the Doctor, any version, as Earth bound. What doesn't come up at all is the implication of Donna's reply to Rose's "but what about you?" (to Realverse Ten, who then says "I'll be alright, I have Madam") - "Just what Skinny Boy needs, an equal", i.e. that Rose is not; either this didn't occur to anyone during shooting, or it was intentional.
The original ending was another case of Julie Gardner putting her foot down; it has Donna in the kitchen hearing the TARDIS noise and for a second recognizing it), saying that either Donna remembers or she doesn't, and since we've just established remembering would kill her, there would be viewers imagining Donna collapsing in the kitchen and dying while the Doctor takes off, which RTD acknowledged was true, so out it went. Then there was the repetition of the traditional "What?" cliffhanger gag which Benjamin Cook talked him out off as inappropriate; DT in the audio commentary says he's ever so grateful because that means he could shoot the Christmas special without having to wear a wet shirt for days.
Lastly: ...and then there is the bit where DT and RTD argue about whether or not Catherine Tate should now be listed among the actors who played the Doctor. (CT: Do people argue about that kind of thing? DT & RTD with one voice: YES!!!!). New Who: for good or ill, what happens when fanboys get in charge. Oh, show.
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no subject
Date: 2008-11-19 06:13 am (UTC)If only she KNEW! That's a relatively sane argument to have...
no subject
Date: 2008-11-19 06:24 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-11-19 06:29 am (UTC)Hee. Yes. Catherine is going "Yay!" and viewers are going 'wibble!'.
"Just what Skinny Boy needs, an equal", i.e. that Rose is not; either this didn't occur to anyone during shooting, or it was intentional.
I just figured that it's supposed to be a reflection of Donna's self-esteem issues (as expanded on by Ten II in the TARDIS with her -- about how no matter how amazing she's been, she doesn't see it). She sees worth as coming from a brain like the Doctor's. Especially since I think the Doctor's emotional focus on that part of the scene is him knowing that she's going to lose it all very soon (David has such a small, but heartbreaking look on his face when she's speaking there).
no subject
Date: 2008-11-19 07:02 am (UTC)The classic difference in perspective between actors and viewers, really. In this case probably heightened because there was so much "can a comedienne do drama?" sneering before s4 was broadcast, and having the opportunity to prove all the sneering wrong by acting everyone's socks off must have been immensely satisfying.
Re: character motivations in deleted scene, agreed that the Doctor already knows Donna is going to lose it soon (if the script as published in The Writer's Tale is anything to go by, he starts to suspect after Caan's final pronouncement) and Donna's comment was probably meant to underscore that in tragic irony. But you could interpret it in other ways, and given RTD endlessly rewrote this particular scene mostly because he didn't want Rose to look bad in it, I'm surprised it never occured to him.
no subject
Date: 2008-11-19 07:27 am (UTC)Oh, yes. I remember RTD talking pre-series about how Catherine was going to amaze everyone and if they thought Donna was just some shrill, annoying character, they didn't actually watch TRB (which I agree with -- she gets a lot of good depth over the course of that episode and I was already in love with her character by the end) and it was probably very thrilling for both of them to break a whole lot of hearts with her character.
Oh, and this:
there was so much "can a comedienne do drama?" sneering
really reminded me of Joss Whedon talking about how he'd always much rather have someone known for comedy than someone known for drama -- because comedy is harder than drama and thus anyone who can make people laugh can also make them cry.
Re: character motivations in deleted scene, agreed that the Doctor already knows Donna is going to lose it soon (if the script as published in The Writer's Tale is anything to go by, he starts to suspect after Caan's final pronouncement) and Donna's comment was probably meant to underscore that in tragic irony. But you could interpret it in other ways, and given RTD endlessly rewrote this particular scene mostly because he didn't want Rose to look bad in it, I'm surprised it never occured to him.
On the level of which RTD has always written Rose, I don't think that he's ever worried that she would come across as less than equal to the Doctor. He was worried that if she accepted Ten II too easily, it would make her character look stupid or shallow, so he was focused on that, but given how much he clearly adores the character of Rose, I'm not surprised that he wasn't so worried about that. I mean, "Turn Left" happened only two episodes ago, plus there was the awesome of her crossing universes to find the Doctor to save the universes. For RTD (though I know it's not true for all viewers!), Rose's impressiveness is well-enough established, I think.
The classic difference in perspective between actors and viewers, really.
Date: 2008-11-19 09:43 am (UTC)Re: The classic difference in perspective between actors and viewers, really.
Date: 2008-11-19 09:47 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-11-20 11:32 am (UTC)Even in the Alt!verse the battles go on, it seems. Sigh.
Thanks for an excellent review. Although I have to say it stomps on all my frail hopes for a Donna comeback and Rose/10.5 specials, so I don't think I'll pay all that money to be miserable.
no subject
Date: 2008-11-19 06:42 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-11-19 07:03 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-11-19 06:54 am (UTC)... which is a shame, for you know I DO LIKE the West Wing neepery.
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Date: 2008-11-19 07:06 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-11-19 07:33 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-11-19 09:34 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-11-19 08:21 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-11-19 04:20 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-11-19 04:33 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2008-11-19 04:37 pm (UTC)DT: But of course! You couldn't do anything else!
...I want to bitch about this, because those things were important! (More Rose/Jack than Martha/Rose, since we get a bit of the latter in other moments.) But I can't really bring myself to, if the option is Sarah and Davros. That was an awesome moment.
CT: Well, I would have if you'd have done a fifth season, Russell.
I'm trying very hard not to dwell on this
forever.And thank you for posting this! The world is a happier place knowing that there is even more CT and DT admiring each other out there.
no subject
Date: 2008-11-19 05:16 pm (UTC)Same here. I mean, yes, from a pure storytelling standpoint the Rose and Jack stuff should have stayed in and was more important, and if you've only watched New Who, you would be behind it 100% - but from a 40 years of show history pov, Sarah and Davros recognition just wins.
I'm trying very hard not to dwell on this forever.
Me too. I don't know whether this implies she wouldn't for the Moff, but what I chose to read from it is that there's hope she'll be back for the last special before RTD finally takes his hat.
The world is a happier place knowing that there is even more CT and DT admiring each other out there.
That's what I thought. Freckled BFFs of the actorly persuasion for the win, I say.
no subject
Date: 2008-11-20 03:50 am (UTC)(One of these days I'm going to do the post on how actors, for the most part, simply don't have the same pov which viewers and fans do, with this being a case in point, because while viewers are all "poor Donna, RTD, how, could you?", CT is "what a chance to act my heart out, Russell, THANK YOU !!!!!")
So true. I've heard one or two other commentaries (and probably read interviews) where actors, and/or others involved in a production, view a scene as a wonderful acting challenge/moment, while I, as a viewer, see it as a horrible (story-wise, not acting-wise) moment that should not have happened.
no subject
Date: 2008-11-20 07:48 pm (UTC)And you're welcome. Enjoy your dvds when they arrive!
no subject
Date: 2008-11-20 03:49 pm (UTC)downright hilarious, as when DT, CT and BP are in a car watching the Sarah Jane, Mickey and Jackie scene being shot and John Barrowman literally jumps among them into the car as well
and I totally WANT it.
Then, I read this:
You know, there were Captain Jack and Rose and the fact she made him immortal, and I did have a line about that in the script which ultimately went out, and Martha and Rose, what with Martha having lived with the existence of Rose for a year, but what do I spent time with? Sarah Jane and Davros.
...and I sort of want to smack Rusty and his priorities.
Although, I do think some of the problems with "Journey's End"--like the missing Jack/Rose or Martha bits--could have been resolved with a full 90 minute episode or a two-parter (one of the Sontaran or Library episodes could have been eliminated).
Already widely known in fandom is the deleted bit from the beach scene in which Brown Doctor gives Blue Doctor a bit of the TARDIS so he can grow his own and travel through the Alt!Verse, which RTD cut because a) Julie Gardner put her foot down, and b) ultimately the TARDIS coral didn't work and looked twee.
Yes, I've already seen this online. While I'd thought it looked good on paper, it came off awful on the screen, and I'm glad it was cut.
no subject
Date: 2008-11-20 07:44 pm (UTC)Re: the cut scene - CT said this was the one time she felt she failed at delivering the technobabble convincingly in the finale, so was glad it got cut, too.
no subject
Date: 2008-11-20 08:14 pm (UTC)Oh, OK! I was confused about which scene you meant. I do agree that Davros recognizing Sarah Jane was awesome and necessary.
I thought Rusty was talking about some of the Sarah-wandering-around-the-ship scenes, which could have been trimmed.