Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles 2.11

[selenak]

Let's hear it for the show with one of the best second seasons ever. (Many a show can do a good first season. It's the second one that is the trial.)



As Cameron-centric episodes go, this one wasn't as fast-paced or emotional as Alison from Palmsdale, but it was compelling nonetheless. At first glance, it looks like a standalone, which automatically makes me suspect what Cameron finds out here will prove crucial for the rest of the season. One of the most striking moments, to me, was when Cameron asked our guest star of the week about suicide and the will to live. Not so much for the impact it had on the poor guy but because to me, it connected with the moment shown in the previouslies: Cameron's desperate pleas to John in the season opener. The point here being not really the "I love you and you love me" but that she desperately wanted to live. Not because she needed to complete her mission (old or new) but because she, Cameron, the individual, wanted to live; one of the primary marks of sentience. And an emotion, with few, if any, stronger. The other striking moment comes when Cameron realizes that the other Terminator, Stark, had not intended to kill the 46 people who died, that it had been an accident through his arrival in the wrong time. Because at the start of this show, I don't think Cameron would have cared whether these people died because their death served a purpose or as an accident, one way or the other. Now, she wants reasons for deaths.

She traces a story together, one which, incidentally, opens a whole new can of worms, because if a Terminator by accident arrived decades too early once, why not twice? Why not centuries before? I bet Skynet when inventing time travel had to practice a few times. (Quick DW joke: just think of the Doctor, who still has trouble driving accurately.) If nothing else, it's a gold mine for fanfiction, but I suspect the show will use this again, too.

There is also the aspect of Stark having to replace one of the people whom he accidentally killed, because that touches on one of the central questions of the show: is it possible to change the course of history? Derek, in the episode with the two Fishers, speculates it might be, and that there are already different timelines in existence, but the end of the episode, though ambiguous, seems to me to rather confirm he just enabled something to come true that already did. Then there's the episode with the Martin Bedells, and John saving one Martin Bedell, who will die for him in the future. Would Martin Bedell, who originally hadn't planned on becoming a soldier, have done that for Future!John if present John hadn't saved him? John himself of course only exists because Skynet tried to prevent his birth. Sarah repeatedly tried to take out mini versions of the future Skynet, but the one Dyson gave his life to prevent was replaced by the Turk who has currently become John Henry. Seems to me this show postulates that while you can make individual changes, in the end time will correct itself and simply put another individual/machine in place of the one taken out.

Which brings me to the subplot with John and Riley. With the revelation of last week, Riley's behaviour seems a lot more calculated, though even without that background, it was pretty clear she wanted to make John jealous. I felt just a wee bit smug when John brought up Charlie, because I had compared Sarah/Charlie to John/Riley (from John's pov, without the knowledge that Riley is actually not a civilian but from the future) in earlier reviews. Also, it's good continuity. I do wonder, though, what exactly Jesse and whoever else she's working with thinks they'll accomplish via Riley, because if the point is just to prevent John's close relationship with Cameron, killing Cameron would be a lot easier and less complicated. So I guess there must be something else, and wonder whether Riley, too, is replacing someone or something from another timeline.

Comments

[(Anonymous)]

Interesting thoughts on a fascinating episode. SCC is the one show that I watch the minute the download is done.
Yes, I believe you are right, Cameron is growing, but unlike John Henry (stupid name!), she has good teachers. She is not as egocentric, because she starts out with a mission centered around another, and when she watches and learn to become better at infiltration, she also becomes a little bit more human.

Love that show.

Estepheia (posting from work during lunchbreak - hence the not logging in)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Well, so far John Henry had Dr. Sherman and will get Ellison, both of whom strike me as intelligent and compassionate people, so I wouldn't say "bad teachers". (Of course, we don't know JH is going to become Skynet as we know it, since my guess is Catherine Weaver is actually trying to change the nature of Skynet by changing the teachers, much like Jesse's branch of the resistence is trying to change John Connor retrospectively by changing whom he bonds with in his teenage years.) But Cameron as you say is positioned as an observer, and learns through interaction, not because someone is actively trying to teach her something. An argument for being an autodidact?

I so love this show. And really must get an icon.

[veritykindle.livejournal.com]

The other striking moment comes when Cameron realizes that the other Terminator, Stark, had not intended to kill the 46 people who died, that it had been an accident through his arrival in the wrong time.

I found this moment very striking, too, and it, along with Cameron's earlier conviction that the Terminator would *not* have killed those people without some sort of reason, made me wonder... We've been assuming all along that the purpose of Skynet, and of all the robots Skynet sends to the past who aren't actively chasing John or other future Resistance members is to make sure that Judgement Day still happens -- to prevent Sarah and the others from stopping it. But what if that's not the case? If the machines don't kill without a reason, then what would be the point of them simply wiping out a huge portion of the human population, turning the world into a wasteland, and making most of the humans that are left obsessed with destroying them? Wouldn't the machines just see that as a terrible waste of resources?

Some of the terminators are clearly sent to the past to kill people who will be a danger to Skynet in the future. But that makes perfect tactical sense, given that Skynet is involved in a war at the moment. That doesn't mean that other terminators, like, say, Catherine Weaver, couldn't at the same time try to maneuver things in such a way that machines could have a better chance of understanding humans and coexisting with them *without* needing to destroy them -- a different way of neutralizing Skynet's enemies that wouldn't land Skynet in the middle of a terribly draining war.

Stark's campaign against the father of the young man who died seemed at first glance to be a personal vendetta against him -- it looked like Stark had specifically set out to destroy the man's life. But Stark wasn't human, he was a *machine*, and all he really wanted was to build the tower so that he could complete his original mission. He didn't care about the other guy at all. Destroying his life was simply the most direct way he could find of accomplishing his objectives.

What if that's true of the machines in general, as well? We've been assuming that the machines want to destroy the humans just as much as the humans want to destroy the machines, all an unending cycle. But if the machines don't really feel hate, then why should they go to such lengths simply to destroy humans? So, what if they *aren't* really trying to do that? What if the humans are simply an obstacle in the way of the machines' *true* goal, whatever it might be (my money is on them simply wanting a chance to develop in peace), and it's just that destroying the humans is the most direct way they can find of accomplishing it? If the humans just... figure out what that goal is and get out of the way, somehow, then maybe the machines would leave them alone, as well.

I do wonder, though, what exactly Jesse and whoever else she's working with thinks they'll accomplish via Riley, because if the point is just to prevent John's close relationship with Cameron, killing Cameron would be a lot easier and less complicated.

Well, but the problem is that John *already* has a close relationship with Cameron. Yes, he's been colder toward her this year, but the fact remains that he risked everybody's life in order to save her in the beginning of the season. Killing Cameron now, without first finding a good reason for *why* they would be killing her, wouldn't necessarily lessen her influence on him in the future -- it would just turn her into a martyr in his eyes, and give him time to idealize her in his mind, so that when he sees her again in the future, he'd be that much more likely to trust her. Plus, it would almost certainly turn John *against* whatever Jesse and Riley's final cause is.

The thing is, I don't think they are really trying to destroy Cameron, so much as *replace* her with Riley, so that when the time comes, it'll be Riley's advice John will lean on, and not the advice of a machine. Simply killing Cameron would not accomplish that goal, I don't think.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

along with Cameron's earlier conviction that the Terminator would *not* have killed those people without some sort of reason

It occurs to me this ties with Cameron's and John's conversation two episodes ago (in the scene when they're waiting for Ellison in front of his house) about machines not being pointlessly cruel.

He didn't care about the other guy at all. Destroying his life was simply the most direct way he could find of accomplishing his objectives.

Yes. It reminded me of a subplot in Babylon 5's fourth season, where at one point two of the regular characters were brainwashed and handed over for capture respectively, and it wasn't about them at all, neither in hate or otherwise; they simply had the misfortune of being used in another cause entirely. And what you suggest is fascinating; I could see that. I mean, I doubt way back when he shot the first Terminator movie, James Cameron thought any deeper than "it makes a good suspense plot" about the rationale of the machines wanting to kill the humans, but this show's writers are so thoughtful that they'd be capable of such a retcon.

Well, but the problem is that John *already* has a close relationship with Cameron. Yes, he's been colder toward her this year, but the fact remains that he risked everybody's life in order to save her in the beginning of the season.

He also kept her amnesia time secret from Sarah and Derek and lied to cover for her well into the season (and after having met Riley); considering that we know Jesse has some surveillance on John (the photos in her room), they might actually know that.

Killing Cameron now, without first finding a good reason for *why* they would be killing her, wouldn't necessarily lessen her influence on him in the future -- it would just turn her into a martyr in his eyes, and give him time to idealize her in his mind, so that when he sees her again in the future, he'd be that much more likely to trust her. Plus, it would almost certainly turn John *against* whatever Jesse and Riley's final cause is.

Okay, point taken. In this case, though, they must be working from the assumption that John - who at some point must find out Riley isn't from current day Los Angeles - will not react too badly to being lied to.

[veritykindle.livejournal.com]

I doubt way back when he shot the first Terminator movie, James Cameron thought any deeper than "it makes a good suspense plot" about the rationale of the machines wanting to kill the humans, but this show's writers are so thoughtful that they'd be capable of such a retcon.

Oh, of course I'm not suggesting that James Cameron had this idea about the machines from the beginning. But the show already changed some things from the movies, so it wouldn't surprise me if it played with this, as well. Besides, the show is focusing *much* more on the machines than the movies did, in any case. The focus of the movies was on terminators specifically sent to kill Sarah and/or John. And we never really got too much specific information on the version of Skynet that Dyson was building, beyond the fact that it would turn into Skynet in the future. And even if we did learn something about that Skynet, it was destroyed in the movie, so there is no reason to think that a new Skynet developed differently wouldn't have slightly different objectives. So it isn't even necessary to do any retconning from the movies for my theory to be true -- it's just filling in information the original movies didn't go into.

For a few two hour movies, a "kill the enemy" objective for the villains is enough. For an ongoing TV series, it's important to flesh out the villains more fully, or the series would become too repetitive and formulaic. As you yourself mentioned a little while back, having compelling villains (or antagonists) is an important part of a Sci Fi series' draw.

It's just that watching the accident when Stark killed all those people reminded me that, as far as I remember, the latest stated reason for Judgement Day in the series was that Skynet learned that it was going to be shut down, got scared, and killed all those people as a result. It wasn't exactly an accident, but it isn't really described as something Skynet had planned for a long time, either. I can see Skynet panicking (or the machine equivalent of panicking) and lashing out, without really factoring in the possible consequences of its actions. And if that's the case, then it would make sense that now that Skynet's agents from the future are actually able to go back and plan things out more carefully, knowing what followed after the original Judgement Day, they could come up with better ways of achieving whatever it is they want without getting dragged into an unnecessary and resource-consuming war.

And this fits with Catherine Weaver's attitude toward Dr. Sherman and James Ellison much better, I think.

they must be working from the assumption that John - who at some point must find out Riley isn't from current day Los Angeles - will not react too badly to being lied to.

Yeah, I'm wondering about that, too. Jess at least has got to know the future John Connor well enough to know that he might not react well to being lied to. And yet, given that they are clearly not there to kill John (since Riley has had *plenty* of opportunities to do that), I can't think of what else they could be trying to accomplish. Maybe they are trying to set up a situation where Cameron kills Riley (before John realizes that Riley is from the future), to ensure that John would never trust Cameron in the future. Riley seems messed-up and suicidal enough to agree to that, I think, and such a situation could explain why she keeps alternating between being so hot and cold with John.

[seriousfic.livejournal.com]

So I guess there must be something else, and wonder whether Riley, too, is replacing someone or something from another timeline.

Well, there is always Kate Brewster from T3, assuming that entire movie hasn't been swept under the rug. With the time-jump forward, John's still a teenager while Kate is a grown woman. However, Riley seems way too unstable to serve as the long-term lover Kate was.

The entire Jess/Riley/John arc kinda reminds me of a parent trying to set their son up with a girl to "prove" he's not gay. It makes me wonder how canon the John/Cameron is going to get.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I think there could be something to the suspicion voiced by another commentator that Riley is unstable enough to have volunteered for a suicide mission, i.e. the endgoal is for a situation to occur in which Cameron kills her, thus separating John from Cameron for good.

The entire Jess/Riley/John arc kinda reminds me of a parent trying to set their son up with a girl to "prove" he's not gay. It makes me wonder how canon the John/Cameron is going to get.

I can see that subtext (what if Jesse saying to Derek "it's sick" re: John and Cameron). As for the later, on the one hand the show already established via the late Vik and his poor human wife Barbara that Terminators can participate in sexual encounters, but on the other I don't think they'll go there explicitly with John and Cameron. Because of the problem of hooking up two of the three core regulars, but also because of the consent problem; they'd have to make it very clear Cameron has complete free will first, otherwise John would look horribly exploitative. So think they'll keep the relationship, current and future, ambiguous.

[seriousfic.livejournal.com]

I think there could be something to the suspicion voiced by another commentator that Riley is unstable enough to have volunteered for a suicide mission, i.e. the endgoal is for a situation to occur in which Cameron kills her, thus separating John from Cameron for good.

That would put a different layer on the scene where Riley answers the door for Cromartie. It wouldn't be that big a leap for her to guess it was a Terminator, and at this point the biggest influences on John have been his mother (who dies from cancer), the T-800 (which sacrificed himself for John), and Cameron (who could either die in John's service or survive with him past Judgment Day). Giving him a human martyr, done in by either a bad Terminator or Cameron... I could see how Jesse could think that would change him.

And the security violations she instigates look a lot like her goading Cameron, especially not punching in the security code when she left.

[lakrids404.livejournal.com]

Skynet reasoned

John Connor is the problem
Trying to killl him does not work
Therefore change the start parameters
So John Connor goals will not be killing Skynet
Can’t change J.C.
This is not true if Cameron is a deliberate plant from

Can (probably) change Skynet
Therefor send T-Catherine back in time and change Skynets behavoers so it don’t conflict with J. C.
Skynet survives

Changing once fundamental behaviour to survive would of humans probably be considered perhaps worse than defeat. But Skynet is not human it’s fundamental an alien creature, therefore it reacts with other basic reactions than any animal would have.