Shows that start with B

[selenak]

b5_revisited started their discussions of the Babylon 5 pilot The Gathering. If you're either an old fan or a new watcher, check the posts out; there is one with and one without spoilers, so if you're new, you have nothing to fear. Oh, Babylon 5. I love both my space station shows, the other being DS9, but right now, I'm all nostalgia for the last of the Babylon stations and the third age of mankind.

Meanwhile, the second half of Battlestar Galactica, season 4, has started.



First of all, I'm wondering whether or not to get my Ellen Tigh icon out of retirement, because I'm tickled to death and oddly pleased both by her being revealed as the fifth and by her and Saul Tigh as that most fanfiction-ish of concepts, reborn lovers who keep finding each other. If it had been Kara and Lee, I'd have thrown up. (Sorry. One of my true anti-ships, that one.) Adama and Roslin? Nah. My Laura Roslin would never shackle herself to just one person. But Saul the alcoholic and Ellen the promiscuous party girl, my Edward Albee couple on Galactica? YES. Sign me up. BSG doesn't do romance very well, in general, but it's good with established relationships, both friendships and affairs/marriages. And the scene with Ellen confessing what she did to save Saul's life and Saul killing her still makes me sob like a child.

As for Ellen as the Fifth Cylon: my crack theory had been that it was the Galactica itself and my more sensible theory that it was Felix Gaeta, but I wasn't married to either one, and I did wonder whether it wouldn't have to be a female character because three of the four are men already. Now, the most obvious suspect was Laura Roslin, and that I would have minded very much, because Roslin, like Gaius Baltar, is a character whose storyline and function in the overall narrative really is inseperable from them being human. (Though of course for different reasons with these two.) Also, I really disliked the variation of the Roslin-is-a-Cylon theory that positioned her as some kind of überwoman goddess pulling everyone's strings. Laura? Does not need this. She's awesome because she was a minor goverment official who had just been told she had cancer and then had to shoulder the responsibility for everyone left of the human race, and lived up to the challenge. Not because she was programmed for greatness. Ellen, on the other hand, is a character no one ever took seriously, save Adama who resented her for the hold she had over Tigh, and most people disliked, who was just plain not good at political manouevring the one time she tried (in early season 2) and who would always choose the individual (her husband) over the big picture (the resistance on New Caprica and the future of humanity) - Ellen, in short, the anti-überwoman, as the final Cylon? Yes.

(Also, it ends what is a very depressing episode on a note of hope. Like Tigh, I'm aglow in the sudden prospect of seeing Ellen again - without this negating the tragedy of her death and the choices they both made then, because boy, do they have things to talk about now. Saul/Ellen OTP!)

The big red herring and continuing mind game is what happened with Kara. The sci fi fan in me can think of three possibilities regarding what she found on Earth.
1) The Farscape model - when Kara entered the maelstrom in Maelstrom, it doubled her. And her ship. We'll never know which one crashed and which came back, just as there was no One True John when this happened in s3 of Farscape, they were both John.
2) Time Travel - we're actually seeing the same woman, but dead body! Kara is the future version. There was an anomaly which ensured Kara was thrown back in time, but she'll end up crashed sooner or later.
3) Deliberate cloning by a third party. There are still some cells unaccounted for from Caprica. As alive!Kara has all her memories, however, dead!Kara would have to be the clone.
All this being said? Loved Kara making her own pyre. And the fact Leoben, for the first time, is fresh out of answers and genuinenly freaked. There are no more oracles, I think, neither for Kara nor for Laura nor for Baltar nor for anyone; they have to find their own answers.

Dee: oh, Dualla. The writing didn't always serve you well - post-Home, when the Lee romance started - but when it did, as in your confrontation with Adama in Home I, when you called him out on just wanting you as an audience for his monologue, not as someone with her own opinion, you were splendid. Very much the quiet voice of hope through much of the show, and indeed literally the voice of the Galactica. Dee as the one to give up in the face of the horrible truth about Earth was in many ways the most devastating choice, and very effectively done, from her reaction to what she finds on Earth to her talk with Lee and her choosing to spend her last day happy to that quick pulling the trigger once Gaeta is out of the room. Speaking of Gaeta, since I've watched the webisodes I wonder whether the choice of Dee as the character to commit suicide isn't also due to Gaeta's storyline because her replacement, Hoshi, is Gaeta's boyfriend.

As far as a reply to the question "if you've found the promised land, and it's a nuclear wasteland, what do you do THEN?" is concerned, I thought it was an honest episode. They've all pinned so much hope on Earth, had considered it the answer to all their miseries, the place where they'd finally be safe and happy again, that to find it in such a state couldn't result in chin lifting and soldiering on immediately. Roslin not being able to say any calming words once she's back in the fleet but just withdrawing really brought it home. This is the first time we've seen Laura Roslin not just defeated, but beaten. Which she never was before, even when in various jail cells. And it's fitting this doesn't happen through the actions of one individual or even the entire Cylon race. She had made herself from a sceptic into a believer, she had gambled so much on the prophecies, on her visions, and now it looked like she has led the human race to nothing. And yet Roslin finds that one plant still growing in the wasteland, which might be a bit obvious a symbol, but it still worked for me.

Adama: now that was a bit over the top for me, perhaps because we've been through two devasted emo!Bill episodes already, Sine Qua Non (boo! hiss!) and Revelations (where I actually felt sorry for him). Also, trying to get Tigh to kill him is just screwed up and selfish beyond belief if you remember he saw first hand what killing Ellen did to Saul. This being said, I can buy he needed Tigh to ground himself and become the commander the fleet needs again.

New Questions: obviously, if Baltar is right and the Thirteenth Tribe of humanity were Cylons, we're still due explanations as to why five of them figured out how to do the download thing (with some millennia in between downloads) and the rest did not. I'm also reminded of the story we heard in s2 about the thirteenth god being expelled by the other twelve when he started claims of monotheism, or was that on the deleted scenes? Anyway: as a symbol of "we ARE the other", it's pretty powerful. Also, if I am a Cylon, I want to figure out how to do that projecting thing.

Comments

[crossoverman.livejournal.com]

Ellen as the Final Cylon is just so fitting. For so long I've been thinking it would be a major character that would shift loyalties and blah, blah. I think I love the fact it's Ellen, because she seemed so insignificant. And now she's a Cylon and one of the much-vaunted Final Five - and apparently the one D'Anna apologised to in her vision, probably because the actions of the Seven lead to her death. It will be interesting to see how Ellen is worked into the upcoming episodes - but we sure as hell haven't seen the end of the 2000-years-ago flashbacks. This episode has asked a lot of questions - and I can't wait for the answers.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Ellen as the Final Cylon is just so fitting.

I'm really glad someone thinks so aside from me! Since I just started to catch up on everyone else's reviews, and most seem to be ever so pissed off it wasn't a major character (tm) in general, and that it was Ellen in particular.

Mind you, I'm sure it wasn't decided then, but it does fit with the fact we never got a good explanation on why she suddenly was found in the fleet in Tigh me up, tigh me down and had no explanation about her survival other than "I was hit on the head and unconscious for three weeks". And the fact Baltar never says whether or not her test identified her as a Cylon. (And this was when his Cylon detector actually worked, as evidenced by it correctly identifying Boomer as one later, before he sabotaged it to give everyone in the fleet a free pass.)

And yes, bring on the 2000 years ago flashbacks.

[crossoverman.livejournal.com]

I can't believe that people are still complaining about Ellen being Ellen. Especially after her horrific death scene, which I thought turned all non-believers into at least being sympathetic with her.

Yes, it does all seem to fit - even if it wasn't planned that long ago. That doesn't bother me - the best retcons are the ones that make it look like it was planned all along, even if you know it wasn't.

I'm also really glad it was revealed in 4x11 and not dragged out any longer because the revelation should have repercussions - because the identity of the final Cylon wasn't ever going to be the end of the story. Now it's out of the way, we can explore the ramifications without that question hanging over the head of the series.

[wee-warrior.livejournal.com]

Ellen as the final Cylon is actually a pretty good choice. It even mollifies me about Tigh being a Cylon, which so far has been a choice I hated. I loved that they seemed incredibly uppercrust and possibly academic in the flashback!

since I've watched the webisodes I wonder whether the choice of Dee as the character to commit suicide isn't also due to Gaeta's storyline because her replacement, Hoshi, is Gaeta's boyfriend.

I don't think so, because Gaeta's original boyfriend was to be Narcho(?), who is one of the pilots. Just like his original girlfriend was going to be Six - neither Tricia Helfer nor Narcho's actor were available, so they re-wrote it.

Also, if I am a Cylon, I want to figure out how to do that projecting thing.

I'd also really like to know where my superhuman strength is - and why I don't look like a model, but that might just be vanity.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Ellen as the final Cylon is actually a pretty good choice. It even mollifies me about Tigh being a Cylon, which so far has been a choice I hated. I loved that they seemed incredibly uppercrust and possibly academic in the flashback!

Oh yes, I had that impression, too. Which makes the reincarnation business all the better.

I don't think so, because Gaeta's original boyfriend was to be Narcho(?), who is one of the pilots. Just like his original girlfriend was going to be Six - neither Tricia Helfer nor Narcho's actor were available, so they re-wrote it.

Huh, that's interesting. Gaeta sleeping with a Six instead of an Eight on New Caprica would probably have made the Baltar parallels too strong for me, but otoh it would have fit into just how massively screwed up about his dissapointed Gaius crush he is.

I'd also really like to know where my superhuman strength is - and why I don't look like a model, but that might just be vanity.

Clearly, our designers had it in for us!

[greenpear.livejournal.com]

Ellen was one of my top runners (and best hopefuls) for the last cylon. Most of the major characters put forth have too much of their own storylines to content with (Adama, Laura, Baltar...). Just how they'll re-introduce her will be interesting.

But how did she survive? After Tigh killed her where did she resusrect? Wouldn't it have been a little odd for her to pop-up on a ressurection ship?

Why did Kara burn the body she found. It isn't like she was completely alone when she found it. Leoban saw the whole thing too. You can't hide things like that very easily. And him being that freaked out shows he doesn't have all the answers (anymore).

Okay, the 13th tribe was supposed to have left when there were only mechanical cylons. But now it sounds like the 13th tribe was "all" cylons. Is this where "it happened before, it will happen again" came from?

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Ellen can't have popped up on a resurrection ship because the seven Cylon models didn't know who the five were, hence could not have bodies prepared. I suspect that whatever mechanism the five initially used to get themselves recreated after Earth went nuclear kicked in this time as well, and it will be a different one to the one the seven use. With the bad luck our lot are having, however, resurrected!Ellen will probably be found by Cavil's faction of the Cylons first. (In which case I hope she gets to kill him.)

Kara burning her body: I don't think it's so much to hide it was there as it was because the idea of her own rotting body next to her was unbearable.

And consider: the five being able to age (as evidenced by Tigh, who also already existed in the first Cylon/Colonials war when the "normal" Cylons were all mechanical) already shows they were "manufactured" by someone not identical with the usual Cylons. So I've been assuming the creation/destruction cycle of AI life has been going on for a while, yes.

[g_shadowslayer]

I have to say, this show constantly amazes me -- it floors me that they get to do what they do on US tv. They do NOT pull their punches. Dee's death made me gasp out loud -- I was NOT expecting that. And the revelation of Ellen -- goodness! I know they've had missteps, but my gods, this show is SO GOOD. I will so miss it when it's gone...

ETA: I should point out, I'm damned glad it was Ellen -- I'd been SO scared they'd make it a major character, and the only one that wouldn't be crap was if it truly was Bill Adama. I thought it was going to be Gaeta, but I was SO scared it would be Kara or Roslin. I'm really, really glad it wasn't!

[selenak.livejournal.com]

but I was SO scared it would be Kara or Roslin. I'm really, really glad it wasn't!

Me too. Either one would have been a terrible choice and would have taken a lot away from their storylines.

Dee: I had a bad feeling when she told Gaeta she wants to hang on to feeling good just a little while longer, but not earlier than that.

[deborah-judge.livejournal.com]

Oh, I am filled with squee about the Ellen revelation. So she's the Final Cylon, the one D'anna was willing to die to see, the object of all the searches and reverence? She's the almost-godly manipulator who arranged for all this to happen? Ellen? I take back everything I said about RM treating older women badly.

On the other hand, I am seriously sulky about D'anna's death. She's too interesting a character to have less than half a scene's worth of goodbye.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

She is, but then, I refuse to believe we don't see her again before the show is over. "I'm staying here" isn't comparable with an on screen death, and you know, even characters who had those came back...

[faroutgal.livejournal.com]

Re: Kara

I also thought of twinning a la Farscape but the wrinkle in all of this is Kara's ship. Its so clean, as if it came off the assembly line. Time travel also doesn't explain the clean ship. The ship makes me believe that the answer lies with your third option which involves some outside intereference. I'm not sure that's my favorite.

Actually if Kara were cloned then wouldn't she also be "clean" no scars, no tattoos?

That being said, the shot of Kara sitting next to the burning funeral pyre was beautiful.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Actually if Kara were cloned then wouldn't she also be "clean" no scars, no tattoos?

Not if the clone is the dead body, which was far too decomposed to tell...

[buffyannotater.livejournal.com]

I thought the Ellen revelation was brilliant. And going all the way back to "Tigh Me Up, Tigh Me Down"...

Adama: Any one of us could be a Cylon.
Ellen: BOO!

[likeadeuce.livejournal.com]

Dee as the character to commit suicide isn't also due to Gaeta's storyline because her replacement, Hoshi, is Gaeta's boyfriend.

Wait, what? I haven't been watching the webisodes. Who is Hoshi?

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Hoshi: The guy Adama tells to take over for Dee when Adama gets back into CiC to hold his encouraging speech. The webisodes, all ten of them (story title "Face of the Enemy"), are up at YouTube, starting here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyFxU3ZtV-A), so you can watch them and I shall not spoil you for the plot. Jane Espenson is the writer, it's Gaeta-centric, and yes, Hoshi is his boyfriend.

[rivrea.livejournal.com]

The Farscape model - when Kara entered the maelstrom in Maelstrom, it doubled her. And her ship. We'll never know which one crashed and which came back, just as there was no One True John when this happened in s3 of Farscape, they were both John.

Oooh, good one. I hadn't even thought of that, despite watching Farscape quite recently, but I think I'll stick to this theory, as it's far less depressing than any alternatives I did think of. I've had enough BSG-related depression for one episode, thank you very much. (Roslin's breakdown? Ouch. Dee's suicide? OUCH.)

Also, if I am a Cylon, I want to figure out how to do that projecting thing.

I'd mainly like to know whether I could squeeze myself into Tricia's skimpy dresses.

[tebasile7.livejournal.com]

Just want to thank you for recommending the B5 rewatch community.

I actually joined the moment you mentioned it the first time.
I think it still is my absolute favourite show and fandom, it was the fandom I was most involved in in RL, did not have net access apart from, uni backthen..... can`t believe it has been over a decade......

Not looking at the other B because that`s one show where I still am on the German schedule.

I got a theory, it might be bunnies!

[lakrids404.livejournal.com]

My own pet theory is, that the show is in a post singularity universe. To many events supernova, prophecies, Kara 2.0 etc. are happening, in ways that are makes it unlikely if there is not a transcend intelligence(’s) who are manipulating the events. Further speculations out of that tangent, could I speculate that there are no “real” humans any more. Earth was an experiment in recreating human for some reason, perhaps to see if there is a way for human and AI to live together without mutual genocide.

Re: I got a theory, it might be bunnies!

[selenak.livejournal.com]

While this sounds plausible, I wonder: wouldn't it be anticlimatic for a show finale if said intellegence(s) reveal themselves at the end and say "well, thanks for participating in our experiment, you got further than the last guys?"

[jesuswasbatman]

My sci-fi fan response to Kara finding her own corpse in the crashed Viper: "I have disturbed my own tomb, and now I go to lie in it". Talking of deeply flawed instruments of God with a dead girlfriend sharing their minds...