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selenakI never wrote a review of Thor back when I watched the film, not because I didn't like it, but because I didn't feel passionately about it one way or the other. I was mildly entertained, agreed with many others that the female characters fare much better than in any other superhero film in recent memory, and I also liked the genre atypical attention paid to getting civilians to safety so they weren't harmed in the big action set piece showdown (and who, again atypically for the genre, chose the task of civilian rescue as opposed to taking part in the big action set piece). However, that was about it as far as my reaction was concerned. Flash forward a few months and many another watchers's reactions later, and I find I do have something to say after all. For the very character who was and is the universal favourite in Thor viewerdom, Loki, only elicited a big "eh" from me, and I finally figured out why, when in theory I should have been all over him, given my usual fannish tendencies.
Background first: Norse mythology Loki actually is my favourite in his pantheon, and one of my favourite trickster gods, full stop. However, the Marvel version in the comics has little to nothing to do with him, so I didn't expect the film version to have, either. As it turns out, the film version also has little to do with the comics version (and even less with the mythological one), so basically, fresh start. And there I was, staring cold eyed at Tom Hiddleston and his soulful why-does-Dad-prefer-this-idiot-its-so-unfair!!! expression instead of pouncing and crying "you poor misunderstood woobie you!"; my emotion was more on the line of "oh, get over yourself already". And thinking about it, it was the "woobie" part that did it. Or didn't do it. As it turns out, my golden standard for the sons who feel themselves unfairly discriminated against and scheme for their dimmer sibling's place is Edmund in King Lear.
Now Edmund is a bastard in both senses of the word. He's also witty and cynical, and it's hard not to cheer when he has his first revelatory monologue, pointing out the stupidity of different status for legitimate and illegitimate children, declaring his goal of ursurping his brother's place and scoffing at other people's self justifications and constant self excuses by blaming other factors while he's at it. Edmund is, not difficult to guess, my favourite character in the play. But you know one thing Edmund never does? Feeling sorry for himself. When he frames his brother Edgar, he does so because he wants the duchy, not because he wants to make a point to Daddy. And when he later switches sides and trades on dear old dad as well, it's not so he can rescue him at the last moment to prove he REALLY REALLY LOVES HIM but because getting a piece of governing the kingdom also suits him well, thanks a lot. His moment of dying consideration that saves Lear and could have saved Cordelia if coming five minutes earlier isn't to prove to Edgar he's not such a bad fellow after all but because he's not nihilistic and not the type of villain to want people to die when there is no point to it.
Which is something movieverse Loki is not, incidentally. I've seen a lot of reviews wonder how anyone could not root for Loki. I don't know about you, but statting genocidal wars just to get Dad to admit he's the better son with not a shred of feeling for any of the people on either side dying in same would do the trick for me. Thor might not be the brightest god/alien out there, but he does figure out the wrongness of just this action (which he's also guilty of at the start, albeit with a nonDad related motivation), and "learning humility and empathy" might not be the most novel of narrative arcs, but it works because the film actually shows, not tells; the aforementioned scene where Thor evacuates civilians, leaving the fighting to the more qualified Sif and the Warriors Three comes to mind, as does the fact that by the end of the film Thor doesn't think he's now ready to become king but is painfully aware he's not qualified and might never be. Which is more introspection than movieverse Loki, who is supposed to be the intelligent one, ever manages.
If Loki had actually been show as mistreated in Asgard, all that monumental adolescent self pity would have been justified, but far from being an "outsider nerd kid", as I've seen him called in several reviews, he's a privileged princeling whom his adopted brother adores and his foster parents love. The only thing he doesn't get is the crown prince status. Now I understand that bugs, see Edmund, but if you want the top job, go for the top job, not for (more) daddy approval. Conversely: if Loki, upon discovering his true origins, had exploded into rage at Odin for raising him as an enemy of his own people and if that had been his motivation, I'd have been so there. Alas, that wasn't the case, either. Of course, if it had been, Loki would have shown a shred of interest in and empathy for people neither himself nor his adopted father, and movieverse Loki is too much of a self involved teenager to manage that, without having the grace of wit or self awareness to acknowledge himself as such.
All of which really, really makes me hope for two things as far as the movieverse is concerned: a) in the next Thor film someone, preferably Darcy, actually says "Oh, please, get over yourself", and/or b) in The Avengers Joss, despite being the king of daddy issues himself, gives Loki a makeover resulting in more snark, wit, and genuine bastardy. Who knows? Then I might end up liking this version of Loki after all.
Background first: Norse mythology Loki actually is my favourite in his pantheon, and one of my favourite trickster gods, full stop. However, the Marvel version in the comics has little to nothing to do with him, so I didn't expect the film version to have, either. As it turns out, the film version also has little to do with the comics version (and even less with the mythological one), so basically, fresh start. And there I was, staring cold eyed at Tom Hiddleston and his soulful why-does-Dad-prefer-this-idiot-its-so-unfair!!! expression instead of pouncing and crying "you poor misunderstood woobie you!"; my emotion was more on the line of "oh, get over yourself already". And thinking about it, it was the "woobie" part that did it. Or didn't do it. As it turns out, my golden standard for the sons who feel themselves unfairly discriminated against and scheme for their dimmer sibling's place is Edmund in King Lear.
Now Edmund is a bastard in both senses of the word. He's also witty and cynical, and it's hard not to cheer when he has his first revelatory monologue, pointing out the stupidity of different status for legitimate and illegitimate children, declaring his goal of ursurping his brother's place and scoffing at other people's self justifications and constant self excuses by blaming other factors while he's at it. Edmund is, not difficult to guess, my favourite character in the play. But you know one thing Edmund never does? Feeling sorry for himself. When he frames his brother Edgar, he does so because he wants the duchy, not because he wants to make a point to Daddy. And when he later switches sides and trades on dear old dad as well, it's not so he can rescue him at the last moment to prove he REALLY REALLY LOVES HIM but because getting a piece of governing the kingdom also suits him well, thanks a lot. His moment of dying consideration that saves Lear and could have saved Cordelia if coming five minutes earlier isn't to prove to Edgar he's not such a bad fellow after all but because he's not nihilistic and not the type of villain to want people to die when there is no point to it.
Which is something movieverse Loki is not, incidentally. I've seen a lot of reviews wonder how anyone could not root for Loki. I don't know about you, but statting genocidal wars just to get Dad to admit he's the better son with not a shred of feeling for any of the people on either side dying in same would do the trick for me. Thor might not be the brightest god/alien out there, but he does figure out the wrongness of just this action (which he's also guilty of at the start, albeit with a nonDad related motivation), and "learning humility and empathy" might not be the most novel of narrative arcs, but it works because the film actually shows, not tells; the aforementioned scene where Thor evacuates civilians, leaving the fighting to the more qualified Sif and the Warriors Three comes to mind, as does the fact that by the end of the film Thor doesn't think he's now ready to become king but is painfully aware he's not qualified and might never be. Which is more introspection than movieverse Loki, who is supposed to be the intelligent one, ever manages.
If Loki had actually been show as mistreated in Asgard, all that monumental adolescent self pity would have been justified, but far from being an "outsider nerd kid", as I've seen him called in several reviews, he's a privileged princeling whom his adopted brother adores and his foster parents love. The only thing he doesn't get is the crown prince status. Now I understand that bugs, see Edmund, but if you want the top job, go for the top job, not for (more) daddy approval. Conversely: if Loki, upon discovering his true origins, had exploded into rage at Odin for raising him as an enemy of his own people and if that had been his motivation, I'd have been so there. Alas, that wasn't the case, either. Of course, if it had been, Loki would have shown a shred of interest in and empathy for people neither himself nor his adopted father, and movieverse Loki is too much of a self involved teenager to manage that, without having the grace of wit or self awareness to acknowledge himself as such.
All of which really, really makes me hope for two things as far as the movieverse is concerned: a) in the next Thor film someone, preferably Darcy, actually says "Oh, please, get over yourself", and/or b) in The Avengers Joss, despite being the king of daddy issues himself, gives Loki a makeover resulting in more snark, wit, and genuine bastardy. Who knows? Then I might end up liking this version of Loki after all.
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Date: 2011-12-06 12:45 pm (UTC)Sounds like the same phenomenon as one sees in some hardcore Slytherin apologists.
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Date: 2011-12-06 01:02 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-12-06 09:09 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-04-07 06:36 pm (UTC)Still doesn't justify his actions or mean that fans who side with him over simplistic "geek vs jock" dynamics have much on their side though.
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Date: 2011-12-06 12:56 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-12-06 01:00 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-12-06 01:02 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-12-06 03:32 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-12-07 10:36 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-12-06 03:42 pm (UTC)Peter Madsen's Valhalla, as said in the thread on LJ, is awesome. :-) There was an animated movie made from those comics as well, it's up on YouTube with English subtitles.
Have you read Eight Days of Luke, btw?
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Date: 2011-12-07 10:38 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-12-07 02:54 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-12-06 05:34 pm (UTC)I found Thor actually really interesting but, perdictably, I fell in love with Jane, Darcy, Erik, and Sif.
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Date: 2011-12-07 10:39 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-12-12 03:24 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-12-12 04:15 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-12-12 04:45 am (UTC)Also, that I'm pretty darned sure that almost all of movie!Loki's manpain (and it is manpain) comes from deliberately misreading the very worst of all possible intentions into every action that could possibly be construed as negative toward him. It's not exactly a mark of thoughtfulness or maturity, that.
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Date: 2011-12-12 05:17 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-12-12 04:32 pm (UTC)The littlest frost giant needs to haul his ass to a reputable therapist to work through his daddy issues like a normal being instead of razing small new mexico towns to the ground and attempting genocide on the race from whence he was adopted.
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Date: 2011-12-12 05:53 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-12-12 07:20 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2011-12-12 08:27 am (UTC)