Ugh

[selenak]

I hate bullies. Internet bullies who believe they're propagating "social justice" while doing their bullying are a particularly revolting suspecies. God knows I have my own criticisms of Moffat's writings, but death threats? With an added low of also going after twelve-years Caitlin Blackwood, who plays young Amelia Pond? What she said.

Not that this is new. I'm reminded of the internet back in Children of Earth, Day 4 and after time, when it were RTD and James Moran, but then Rusty wasn't on Twitter. Or going back to the Buffy days, those charmers who wished miscarriage on Marti Noxon when she was pregnant because they hated seasons 6 and 7 of BTVS.

Fandom can be fantastic to be in, but every now and then it makes you recall that "fan" comes from "fanatic", and not in a good way.

Comments

[likeadeuce]

This is why I've started backing away from any conversation involving the "tone argument." There's something really interesting to discuss there, but I'm wary of it being taken to mean, "I can say whatever I want to whoever I want with no accountability for my own rhetoric."

Though to be fair I don't know that anybody has actually applied that argument to saying abusive things to Miss Blackwood.

[astridv]

This is why I've started backing away from any conversation involving the "tone argument." There's something really interesting to discuss there, but I'm wary of it being taken to mean, "I can say whatever I want to whoever I want with no accountability for my own rhetoric."

Yeah, it's a concept that lends itself to abuse very easily, and when it does get abused it's pretty much impossible to argue about the case because of the way the whole argument is framed.

[likeadeuce]

It is a pretty good signal for, "I don't have to take you seriously." But unfortunately certain types of bad behavior aren't as easy to ignore.

[meri]

I think the tone argument can be a good thing, specifically when it points out other people using tone as a way to control anger and critique of marginalized voices, BUT as that argument reaches broader audiences it's becoming a silencing technique itself. Completely surprising no one who's ever done RL social justice work where the same kinds of toxic silencing and group think take place.

[likeadeuce]

Yes, the thing I was trying to say but in much smarter words. Thank you!

(And I didn't mean to suggest there's nothing to 'the tone argument' discussion -- especially as I think it was originally identified as problematic when used by privileged people who could not accept their own statements being criticized, against less privileged people. Just that I'm wary of it because it seems to have trickled down, as you say, to "toxic silencing and group think.")

[meri]

I actually think it's important to be very wary of any argumentative technique when it's used to silence or shame. That's when it, as a tool, needs to be re-examined or it becomes meaningless and hurtful. And it has so obviously gone past being helpful in fandom at the moment. >.

[bobbiewickham]

Jumping in here to say that I agree, and not just in fandom--I've seen its rampant abuse on feminist blogs of late. People feel entitled to say whatever they want to those who disagree, provided that they can identify their opponents as being more privileged along some axis. This in turn leads to some amusing Oppression Olympics (e.g., "I'm entitled to call you names because, while you are a woman, I am a transgendered woman of color with a child." Response: "Oh yeah? I'm a working-class woman with clinic depression, so screw you, and here are some names for you too!").

None of this really helps either discussion or social justice, though it may give some a temporary glow of self-righteousness.