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selenakThe other day I came across a delightful poem: Anchises, by ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png)
papersky, and it reminded me what an odd exception Anchises is in mythology, as far as human/god pairings are concerned. Especially in Greek mythology. If it's human woman (or man)/male god, and the god in question didn't use force anyway, there are other tragedies waiting, transformations, gruesome deaths by rivals, the lot. If it's godess/human man, well, either he gets her because a male god wants her punished/wants to avoid a prophecy (Thetis & Achilles' dad), or she makes the mistake of wishing him immortal while forgetting to also add eternal youth, leading to endless aging (hello, Eos & Tithonos), or his rivals have it in for him and he dies young and tragically (take a bow, Adonis).
But not Anchises. No, Anchises has mutually consenting (and presumably highly enjoyable) sex with the goddess Aphrodite, or Venus, if you want to use the Latin names which considering who made the most of that liason you might want to. And he gets to raise the kid resulting from this. (Anchises, first househusband of the ancient world?) And he lives into a ripe old age. Not without tragedies, but he lives to be rescued by his son from universal death and destruction, lives to seek a new home with said son and grandson, and dies surrounded by family and friends. Yes, he benefited from having a Roman instead of a Greek write the ending of his story (via including it in his son's), but still: Anchises, proof you can have romantic encounters with the divine and spawn legends without having to be a tragic hero yourself. Cheers!
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The annual ficathon based on the Shakespearean histories has been posted, and because Darth Real Life is keeping me busy, I haven't had time to read many, but just one observation: I wonder where the fanon that John of Gaunt was a stern and unaffectionate father with Henry Bolingbroke eternally despairing of ever getting his approval comes from? Because I've seen it in more than one story, and well, I don't recall Shakespeare's John of Gaunt doing in his few scenes anything else but a) plead his son's case to Richard, and b) chew out Richard, in Richard II. As for the historical John, I'm not an expert and my own impression of him is admittedly coloured by Susan Howatch's splended modern Plantagenet AU, Wheel of Fortune, about which more here, where he has some hangups but definitely not a problem showing his oldest son affection, but I don't recall anything about historical John's paternal manners, either way. Since he had a lot of offspring, both legitimate and illegitimate, and was that rarity, an uncle/regent of a child king who did not take his nephew's crown and wasn't killed by said nephew once the kid grew up, either, one imagines at the very least he had some practice interacting with the underaged. Even keeping in mind medieval royalty had lots of servants to do the actual raising. Anyway: the only point in making John of Gaunt a father lacking in affections that I can see is to make the reader feel more sympathy for Henry, which I don't think is necessary - the stories I've read write him sympathetic anyway.
Sidenote: yes, as far as the Shakespeare versions are concerned, the screwed upness of the Henry and Hal relationship a generation later could reproduce a pattern Henry himself experienced. But it doesn't necessarily have to, is all I'm saying. How come no one ever writes a John of Gaunt pov (other than Susan Howatch)?
papersky, and it reminded me what an odd exception Anchises is in mythology, as far as human/god pairings are concerned. Especially in Greek mythology. If it's human woman (or man)/male god, and the god in question didn't use force anyway, there are other tragedies waiting, transformations, gruesome deaths by rivals, the lot. If it's godess/human man, well, either he gets her because a male god wants her punished/wants to avoid a prophecy (Thetis & Achilles' dad), or she makes the mistake of wishing him immortal while forgetting to also add eternal youth, leading to endless aging (hello, Eos & Tithonos), or his rivals have it in for him and he dies young and tragically (take a bow, Adonis). But not Anchises. No, Anchises has mutually consenting (and presumably highly enjoyable) sex with the goddess Aphrodite, or Venus, if you want to use the Latin names which considering who made the most of that liason you might want to. And he gets to raise the kid resulting from this. (Anchises, first househusband of the ancient world?) And he lives into a ripe old age. Not without tragedies, but he lives to be rescued by his son from universal death and destruction, lives to seek a new home with said son and grandson, and dies surrounded by family and friends. Yes, he benefited from having a Roman instead of a Greek write the ending of his story (via including it in his son's), but still: Anchises, proof you can have romantic encounters with the divine and spawn legends without having to be a tragic hero yourself. Cheers!
****
The annual ficathon based on the Shakespearean histories has been posted, and because Darth Real Life is keeping me busy, I haven't had time to read many, but just one observation: I wonder where the fanon that John of Gaunt was a stern and unaffectionate father with Henry Bolingbroke eternally despairing of ever getting his approval comes from? Because I've seen it in more than one story, and well, I don't recall Shakespeare's John of Gaunt doing in his few scenes anything else but a) plead his son's case to Richard, and b) chew out Richard, in Richard II. As for the historical John, I'm not an expert and my own impression of him is admittedly coloured by Susan Howatch's splended modern Plantagenet AU, Wheel of Fortune, about which more here, where he has some hangups but definitely not a problem showing his oldest son affection, but I don't recall anything about historical John's paternal manners, either way. Since he had a lot of offspring, both legitimate and illegitimate, and was that rarity, an uncle/regent of a child king who did not take his nephew's crown and wasn't killed by said nephew once the kid grew up, either, one imagines at the very least he had some practice interacting with the underaged. Even keeping in mind medieval royalty had lots of servants to do the actual raising. Anyway: the only point in making John of Gaunt a father lacking in affections that I can see is to make the reader feel more sympathy for Henry, which I don't think is necessary - the stories I've read write him sympathetic anyway.
Sidenote: yes, as far as the Shakespeare versions are concerned, the screwed upness of the Henry and Hal relationship a generation later could reproduce a pattern Henry himself experienced. But it doesn't necessarily have to, is all I'm saying. How come no one ever writes a John of Gaunt pov (other than Susan Howatch)?
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Date: 2013-08-21 07:32 pm (UTC)And, hmm, I haven't really noticed or thought about that pattern w/ John of Gaunt (not sure I've read any fic that had him in it though). It could well be from the assumption that Henry becomes the kind of father that John was to him. I'll be interested if you get any response to this!
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Date: 2013-08-21 07:48 pm (UTC)no subject
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Date: 2013-08-21 08:26 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-08-21 08:20 pm (UTC)First, there's the John o'Gaunt Gate to the castle, which crops up everywhere (no, I'm serious, everywhere). There's Horseshoe Corner, which used to have a horseshoe allegedly cast by said Duke set in the cobbles. And then there's the Play...
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Date: 2013-08-21 08:29 pm (UTC)My recollections of it are vivid but disjointed. Frankly, if someone can remember even fragments of a play from 41 years ago, probably the playwright was doing something right.
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Date: 2013-08-21 08:41 pm (UTC)no subject
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Date: 2013-08-21 08:53 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-08-21 08:58 pm (UTC)ETA That is, I have no idea why the people selling texts of the play to which I linked should choose to describe it as a "mystery" play whether in the detective story sense or the mediaeval one, based on my (very old) recollections of it. It does involve a panorama of the consequences on history of John o' Gaunt's actions explained to him by his Fool while the two are in Purgatory, but it's a free-form workshop style staging like Zigger Zagger and Oh! What a Lovely War! rather than any like a mystery play.
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Date: 2013-08-21 08:31 pm (UTC)He certainly makes it a long way through the poem, and doesn't have to deal with the unpleasant war at the end.
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Date: 2013-08-21 08:39 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-08-21 08:53 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-08-23 11:32 am (UTC)Quite often with good reason.
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Date: 2013-08-21 09:06 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2013-08-21 09:08 pm (UTC)Huh. Now I feel kind of sheepish that I've always automatically taken the BUT WHY DOESN'T HE RESCUE HIS WIFE view, which makes me realize I was subconsciously classing her w/ a feeble old man and a small child.