So, that 'shipping thing
Aug. 11th, 2004 12:44 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
selenakSomething that occurred to me when reading debates and entries and stories in lj world recently: there seem to be roughly two extreme attitudes (with a lot of people moving in between, of course). One is to not just have an OTP but to declare that OTP exclusively destined for each other, declaring stories pairing one or both partners of that OTP with someone else not to be of interest (or just plain wrong) for this particular fan.
On the opposite end of the spectrum, you have the fascination of pairing a favourite character with as many different other characters as the fan in question can find or is interested in. These aren't mutually exclusive attitudes; I've seen fans who hold characters X and Y dear as an exclusive OTP, while happily writing Z/whoever stories. But being in a metamood, I'm curious what makes a fan go from liking a particular pairing to abhorring all other combinations for one partner in this pairing. (What makes a fan pair a favourite character with everybody, but hopefully not their dog, is less mysterious: it usually works on the "wow, he/she is hot!" basis and is helped if the character in question has shown great chemistry with diverse people in canon. See also: Faith, Lilah, Spike in the Jossverse, Avon in B7, or Methos in HL. Though also Marcus Cole of B5, who has to be the only canon virgin ending up as a fanon slut.)
One possibility could be, boring as it sounds, canon. I mean, take Zoe and Wash from Firefly, during those episodes we have until the show got cancelled (grr, argh!) shown to be happily married. Given their overall characterisation, it would take some serious twists and turns to make a plausible story in which either cheats on the other, so I could understand Zoe/Wash 'shippers declaring they couldn't believe/ wouldn't want to read such a story. But the most striking examples of the exclusivity syndrome I've run across (recently - let's not get into the legendary 'shipping wars of yesteryear, featuring B/A versus B/S, or A/C versus B/A) weren't fans of canonical couples. No, I'm thinking of several Remus/Sirius 'shippers who declared the thought of Remus/Tonks to be abhorrent and vile to them.
(Footnote here: I can believe Remus/Sirius as a couple. I can believe Remus and Sirius as friends without a slice of erotic interest in another; since this is the more unusual take, it strikes me as more intriguing at the moment if it occurs in a story which also strongly features them as friends, but that's me. Where the Remus/Tonks idea came from, I don't know; maybe I missed something on OotP, or maybe it's just because Tonks - as opposed to Hermione or McGonnagal - is both legal and young and thus deemed suitable for Remus. In any case, if the author takes the trouble to explain how this relationship comes about, I can believe Remus/Tonks as well.)
Since JKR, as opposed to many of her readers, seems completely uninterested in Remus Lupin's love life, it's unlikely that either 'ship will ever be given authorial confirmation, either in the form of "by the way, Harry, Sirius and I were a couple" or, "by the way, Harry, Tonks and I are an item now". So it's strictly a fanfic idea the objection aims at. Not being really into any of the HP pairings, I'm probably not in an emotional position to understand, so I tried to think of any OTPs I feel exclusive about, or, conversely, whether I can see the characters I like paired up with everyone.
Let's see. Space stations first:
- Londo and G'Kar: nah. All "theirlove/hateissocanonical" jokes aside, it's equally canonical that they are quite polyamorous. Besides, ignore Londo's love for Adira and you remove crucial motivation for at least two major decisions. And Londo and Timov are fun together. As are G'Kar and Lyta. However, I can't see either of them with just anybody, either. In those long years before much Centauri fanfic was written, I searched and searched and found the beginning of a, get this, Marcus/Londo story. Leaving aside my problem with Marcus pairings in general, I also for the life of me couldn't see Londo being interested. As for G'Kar, one of Andraste's friends longed for G'Kar/Sheridan, which equally boggled the mind. (My mind, that is.) No way, thought I. So here I am somewhere between not exclusive and not open to everything.
- Garak/Bashir: hm. Not exclusive, because I've read both of them with other people and enjoyed those stories. I have a secret weakness for Bashir/Dax (either Jadzia or Ezri, though in the later's case mostly because canon gave us so little justification) and every now and then toy with the idea of taking on Garak/Ziyal. However, the big competition for this pairing in the fandom is O'Brien/Bashir, and that's where I come closest, I suppose, to the aforementioned fannish feelings of possessiveness and deliberate avoidance of another combination. I like to think it's because O'Brien just pings me as straight (not to mention loyal to his wife), but maybe I'm just feeling competitive.
- Quark: Yup, that would be my character whom I can see paired up with everyone. (Not that he does get that kind of fanfic, despite canonical justification for slut status.) However, I do have a clear preference for my unrequited love story of choice, i.e. Quark/Jadzia Dax.
Jossverse:
Ah. Despite all the nice text and subtext, only one of the relationships I was emotionally invested in most actually was sexual - Angel/Darla, with an emphasis on Darla. However, I never had trouble reading either of them with someone else. The other two relationships I cared about most were of the family kind - Buffy & Dawn, and Angel & Connor. So no 'shipping in the romantic sense.
(Which isn't to say I didn't enjoy watching a lot of the pairings the shows offered, or that I don't read fanfic about them. But they aren't OTPs.)
X-Men Movieverse:
Xavier and Magneto all the way if we're talking about the relationship which fascinates me most. But I do enjoy reading Magneto/Mystique a lot as well, Magneto/Pyro is fun, and I'd be perfectly willing to read any Xavier/Someone else pairings, but poor Charles apparently is restricted to fannish monogamy. Mostly. Andraste wrote a very creepy but plausible Xavier/Rogue story, as I recall.
Star Wars:
In the OT, I liked Han and Leia well enough, but what really interested me was the Vader and Luke relationship. So when I later found out that there was Han/Luke slash, I went "huh?" in incomprehension, but did not feel any fannish hackles raised. (BTW, is there any Han/Lando? Because I always thought that would be more interesting.) Luke/Wedge got a "who?" from me, because I had trouble remembering Wedge Antilles at all.
But the prequels are what turned me into a genuine Star Wars fan. Like the Jossverse, though, they did this without me going OTP. Which isn't to say I don't like Anakin and Padme together; I'm in the minority of fans who find their relationship believable and touching. However, I'm more fascinated by the relationships between Anakin and Obi-Wan, and Anakin and Palpatine (one of the many reasons why I'm looking forward to Episode III). And I don't mean in the slash sense. The major sexual pairing in prequel fanfic, however, Qui-Gon/Obi-Wan, is just not my thing; perhaps due to mentor-or-parent-figure/student objections, perhaps due to canon objections (I'm not of the Saint!Obi faction, but I don't think he's a hypocrite, and do think he sincerely believes in the Jedi code, which nixes love affairs). So SW leaves me without any strong romantic or sexual pairing feelings one way or the other.
In conclusion: I'm a boring middle of the road fan when it comes to 'shipping characters.
On the opposite end of the spectrum, you have the fascination of pairing a favourite character with as many different other characters as the fan in question can find or is interested in. These aren't mutually exclusive attitudes; I've seen fans who hold characters X and Y dear as an exclusive OTP, while happily writing Z/whoever stories. But being in a metamood, I'm curious what makes a fan go from liking a particular pairing to abhorring all other combinations for one partner in this pairing. (What makes a fan pair a favourite character with everybody, but hopefully not their dog, is less mysterious: it usually works on the "wow, he/she is hot!" basis and is helped if the character in question has shown great chemistry with diverse people in canon. See also: Faith, Lilah, Spike in the Jossverse, Avon in B7, or Methos in HL. Though also Marcus Cole of B5, who has to be the only canon virgin ending up as a fanon slut.)
One possibility could be, boring as it sounds, canon. I mean, take Zoe and Wash from Firefly, during those episodes we have until the show got cancelled (grr, argh!) shown to be happily married. Given their overall characterisation, it would take some serious twists and turns to make a plausible story in which either cheats on the other, so I could understand Zoe/Wash 'shippers declaring they couldn't believe/ wouldn't want to read such a story. But the most striking examples of the exclusivity syndrome I've run across (recently - let's not get into the legendary 'shipping wars of yesteryear, featuring B/A versus B/S, or A/C versus B/A) weren't fans of canonical couples. No, I'm thinking of several Remus/Sirius 'shippers who declared the thought of Remus/Tonks to be abhorrent and vile to them.
(Footnote here: I can believe Remus/Sirius as a couple. I can believe Remus and Sirius as friends without a slice of erotic interest in another; since this is the more unusual take, it strikes me as more intriguing at the moment if it occurs in a story which also strongly features them as friends, but that's me. Where the Remus/Tonks idea came from, I don't know; maybe I missed something on OotP, or maybe it's just because Tonks - as opposed to Hermione or McGonnagal - is both legal and young and thus deemed suitable for Remus. In any case, if the author takes the trouble to explain how this relationship comes about, I can believe Remus/Tonks as well.)
Since JKR, as opposed to many of her readers, seems completely uninterested in Remus Lupin's love life, it's unlikely that either 'ship will ever be given authorial confirmation, either in the form of "by the way, Harry, Sirius and I were a couple" or, "by the way, Harry, Tonks and I are an item now". So it's strictly a fanfic idea the objection aims at. Not being really into any of the HP pairings, I'm probably not in an emotional position to understand, so I tried to think of any OTPs I feel exclusive about, or, conversely, whether I can see the characters I like paired up with everyone.
Let's see. Space stations first:
- Londo and G'Kar: nah. All "theirlove/hateissocanonical" jokes aside, it's equally canonical that they are quite polyamorous. Besides, ignore Londo's love for Adira and you remove crucial motivation for at least two major decisions. And Londo and Timov are fun together. As are G'Kar and Lyta. However, I can't see either of them with just anybody, either. In those long years before much Centauri fanfic was written, I searched and searched and found the beginning of a, get this, Marcus/Londo story. Leaving aside my problem with Marcus pairings in general, I also for the life of me couldn't see Londo being interested. As for G'Kar, one of Andraste's friends longed for G'Kar/Sheridan, which equally boggled the mind. (My mind, that is.) No way, thought I. So here I am somewhere between not exclusive and not open to everything.
- Garak/Bashir: hm. Not exclusive, because I've read both of them with other people and enjoyed those stories. I have a secret weakness for Bashir/Dax (either Jadzia or Ezri, though in the later's case mostly because canon gave us so little justification) and every now and then toy with the idea of taking on Garak/Ziyal. However, the big competition for this pairing in the fandom is O'Brien/Bashir, and that's where I come closest, I suppose, to the aforementioned fannish feelings of possessiveness and deliberate avoidance of another combination. I like to think it's because O'Brien just pings me as straight (not to mention loyal to his wife), but maybe I'm just feeling competitive.
- Quark: Yup, that would be my character whom I can see paired up with everyone. (Not that he does get that kind of fanfic, despite canonical justification for slut status.) However, I do have a clear preference for my unrequited love story of choice, i.e. Quark/Jadzia Dax.
Jossverse:
Ah. Despite all the nice text and subtext, only one of the relationships I was emotionally invested in most actually was sexual - Angel/Darla, with an emphasis on Darla. However, I never had trouble reading either of them with someone else. The other two relationships I cared about most were of the family kind - Buffy & Dawn, and Angel & Connor. So no 'shipping in the romantic sense.
(Which isn't to say I didn't enjoy watching a lot of the pairings the shows offered, or that I don't read fanfic about them. But they aren't OTPs.)
X-Men Movieverse:
Xavier and Magneto all the way if we're talking about the relationship which fascinates me most. But I do enjoy reading Magneto/Mystique a lot as well, Magneto/Pyro is fun, and I'd be perfectly willing to read any Xavier/Someone else pairings, but poor Charles apparently is restricted to fannish monogamy. Mostly. Andraste wrote a very creepy but plausible Xavier/Rogue story, as I recall.
Star Wars:
In the OT, I liked Han and Leia well enough, but what really interested me was the Vader and Luke relationship. So when I later found out that there was Han/Luke slash, I went "huh?" in incomprehension, but did not feel any fannish hackles raised. (BTW, is there any Han/Lando? Because I always thought that would be more interesting.) Luke/Wedge got a "who?" from me, because I had trouble remembering Wedge Antilles at all.
But the prequels are what turned me into a genuine Star Wars fan. Like the Jossverse, though, they did this without me going OTP. Which isn't to say I don't like Anakin and Padme together; I'm in the minority of fans who find their relationship believable and touching. However, I'm more fascinated by the relationships between Anakin and Obi-Wan, and Anakin and Palpatine (one of the many reasons why I'm looking forward to Episode III). And I don't mean in the slash sense. The major sexual pairing in prequel fanfic, however, Qui-Gon/Obi-Wan, is just not my thing; perhaps due to mentor-or-parent-figure/student objections, perhaps due to canon objections (I'm not of the Saint!Obi faction, but I don't think he's a hypocrite, and do think he sincerely believes in the Jedi code, which nixes love affairs). So SW leaves me without any strong romantic or sexual pairing feelings one way or the other.
In conclusion: I'm a boring middle of the road fan when it comes to 'shipping characters.
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no subject
Date: 2004-08-11 10:52 am (UTC)So - I couldn't buy an actual relationship where the issue of their past wasn't colouring things, or hadn't been addressed and resolved for reasons that made sense to me - which I guess is your feeling about LoP?
Yes, exactly. By the way, it would be the same if LoP were co-starring one of the Weasleys.
As Teacher/Pupil is one of my big squicks as well (hence, for example, no Buffy/Giles for me), I'm so with you on that aspect of Neville/Snape. But even if it were completely adult Neville, ten or twenty years into the future (canon Snape is only 35 or 36 by book 5, after all), I still couldn't buy it due to the bullying past.
Snape/Harry: don't get me going on stories which have Dumbledore twinkling merrily at Teacher/Pupil relationships. Mind you, I can buy subtext in stories still set at Hogwarts. But certainly not more than that.
BTW, I read that interview at the time, and it made me curious enough to seek out LoP. I do disagree with one of her arguments re: Neville and Harry, though. Harry not asking about Neville's parents through the first three years and not knowing until Dumbledore tells him in book 4 never struck me as a subconscious slight/snobbery/disinterest in Neville as a person, but as rather typical for teenagers. At that age, I certainly never asked what friends I had about their parents (unless they told me). Harry doesn't know anything about Hermione's parents, either, other than that they are dentists, and she's one of his best friends.
One fascinating thing about LoP is of course that in some way it anticipates Neville's development in OotP. (Though in other ways OotP chunks some of LoPs assumptions; since Neville and Harry do grow closer there, and Harry gets a great deal more messed up in reaction to previous events, the somewhat smug but happy Harry of LoP and his complete cluelessness re: Neville is a great deal less likely.)
no subject
Date: 2004-08-11 11:03 am (UTC)On an only-slightly-related note, you might enjoy this little ficlet about Snape (http://www.sweetandsour.netfirms.com/censorious.htm) for a contrast with the twinkly overlooking of Teacher/Student affairs.
Although Care of Magical Creatures (http://members.ozemail.com.au/~brussell/comc.htm) is better, I think.
no subject
Date: 2004-08-11 11:34 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2004-08-11 08:10 pm (UTC)Totallyreadit.