Penny Dreadful 1.8.

[selenak]

In which the first season ends, and I'm so glad there is a second one, for this is the Victorian melodrama horror of my heart.



Though it's not of her in Penny Dreadful; because I haven't been able to track down Penny Dreadful icons yet. Why is that? Get on this, icon makers!

As I expected, the Mina storyline was the one the season did wrap up for good. As I had hoped but hadn't 100 % expected, it did so in a fashion that a) gave Mina agenda (even if it was negative agenda), and b) reconciled Malcolm and Vanessa (though given how messed up they and their relationship are, I don't expect this to lead to permanent harmony). The way the whole thing was staged - Mina as vampire queen, Malcolm having to choose directly between Mina and Vanessa and choosing Vanessa, shooting Mina - reminded me very much the fourth season finale of Alias, Arvin Sloane, Nadia and Sydney. And with that, I realised that the Malcolm and Vanessa relationshp clicks with me in a similar way that the one between Sloane and Sydney did. (Though I hasten to add the characters are themselves and not exact parallels.) Anyway, I loved it. And the aftermath, with Vanessa referring to Victor and Ethan as "the boys" when talking to Malcolm, both made me smile and go awww. Very appropriate to the characters that neither of them uses the l-word or explicitly talks about what has happened but there is just this silent hug and Malcolm finally surrendering to grief and letting go.

Meanwhile, Victor makes the opposite choice about Caliban that Malcolm did about Mina, and at a point where Caliban admits (for the first time without blaming Victor or humanity) his ow guilt and monstrosity that's inwards, not outwards. Which leads to Victor deciding not just to spare Caliban but to create a Bride after all. You know, I'd thought I'd be more upset about Brona - on a Doylist, not Watsonian level - but actually the way it happens worked for, not least because I expect the Bride (wichever name she'll choose - btw I don't think she'll be Brona, because yes, Proteus had access to some of his body's old memories, but he had a new personality; I think the Bride will sooner or later access Brona's memories as well, including what Victor did, but she won't be Brona) not to fall in line with the reason why she got created at all. (While novel!Frankenstein gets into the early stages of creating a female creature before destroying her, an actually walking Bride was James Whale's contribution to the saga, in his second movie, and of course that Bride rejects the Karloff Creature point blank. And I'm very curious how Billie Piper will play a female Creature, I admit). Also because Brona had a good and interesting death scene. Mind you, I think Victor is kidding himself that telling her about a realm between life and death which has permanent resurrection and asking her whether she believes him equals asking her for her consent to euthanizing her and using her body to create a new being; not the same thing. (If he wanted meaningful consent, he should have spelled it out.) But their conversation was compelling from both sides, and I do wonder what Brona thought he was on about. I do not have to wonder how Ethan will feel if he ever finds out. (About both the smothering and the corpse using.) Next season: Frankenstein versus the Wolf Man!

Speaking of Ethan, we finally see confirmation of his werewolf nature which the entire season has teased about. There are a lot of open questions: while he clearly laid a trap for the two Pinkerton agents so he could kill them as the wolf, I don't expect he would deliberately have killed the prostitute early in the season, or the other victims, so this universe's werewolves seem to have no control over their wolf side. However, if that's the case, it's odd that Ethan, otherwise to ethical, doesn't make an effort to remain away from people during the full moon. (Not in the case of the agents who wanted to chain him up, but in general.) Guess/hope we'll find out more next season.

Along with a Sembene flashback episode, please. And Dorian Gray either being absent entirely or given a point in the show that extends beyond "has sex with the cast". Not that I mind the later, but if it's a choice between Sembene getting backstory and more present day dialogue and Dorian scenes, well, there's no choice at all.

The scene between Malcolm and Madame Kali/Evelyn meeting in the gun shop and flirting a little is a clear set up for next season, so I expect we'll see more Helen McCrory, which I'm all for. (There is no reason why Vanessa would have to stay the sole female member of the group.) However, I wonder which horror trope she'll embody, given that seer/woman prone to possession is already Vanessa's. I'm still holding out for a female mummy walking, but she could also be a werewolf hunter, which would bring her into conflict with the gang once they realised Ethan is one. Or she could be another werewolf! Who knows.

No chandelier fell down (huh!) and Maud survived, which was a relief. Otoh we got another direct quote from the literary source material, a double quote in fact: "Did I request thee, maker, out of thy clay to mould me man?" from Paradise Lost is the quote Mary Shelley put on the first page of her novel.

Lastly: so will we get a gloriously dysfunctional Christmas special and if not, will fandom write one?

Comments

[d_generate_girl]

Yes, all of this!

I still don't think Mina is finished for good. They very clearly only show her wounded by the first shot to the shoulder, and the other Brides shrug shots like that off all the time. Malcolm's shown shooting her a second time, but we never see the shot hit her, where it hit her, or if she died. It wouldn't shock me if the S2 opener included a scene of Mina in the shadows stalking Malcolm and Vanessa.

[I wasn't surprised, per se, that Malcolm chose Vanessa once he realized that Mina was acting in her own/the Master's best interests. I was surprised that he acknowledged that Vanessa has always been the daughter he wanted/deserved, particularly because he's been so resistant to the label - because, as Ethan lampshades, he really does have not-so-paternal feelings for her, whoops. Their hug and shared grief - they're both wearing full-mourning, too - was a lovely moment.]

I think you're absolutely right about Brona. I look forward to more Victor-and-Brona scenes, as well as the absolute freakout Ethan will have once he discovers what Victor's done. Also, speaking of Victor in this episode, there was a lot of gnashing of teeth on Tumblr over Victor mercy-killing Brona mostly for the express purpose of Bride-ifying her, but I feel that's absolutely in character for him. Victor plays God, it's what he does. He has this power and he utilizes it without considering the consequences. And ironically enough, in this? He's *absolutely* the son Malcolm wants.

YES more Sembene and Ethan next season! Lines for Sembene would be nice, let alone a backstory/flashback. Dorian was interesting at the start, but he's been boring me ever more steadily since episode 4. John Logan needs to consult someone who wants to write Dorian consistently for S2.

Helen was one of my favorite parts of the episode. Evelyn is *clearly* a match for Sir Malcolm, and I look forward to seeing more of her (which Helen's confirmed; shooting for this overran into her starting Peaky Blinders, so she wasn't in as much of it as she/Logan hoped, but she'll be back next year). I'm hoping she's also a monster - werewolf hunter would be AWESOME, but she could also likely be a different take on the Seer (maybe more of a hereditary witch).

No chandelier. Huh!

If we don't get an official gloriously dysfunctional Christmas special, I volunteer to contribute to a fannish one.

[selenak]

Re: Mina: I suppose not showing where the second shot went means they could bring her back if they wanted to, but they don't have to, i.e. aren't bound to by the story, and the "quest for Mina" arc is definitely wrapped up. If the show does bring her back, I don't think it'll be at the beginning of the season, but at the end, after the main s2 story is done with, in a teasing cliffhanger.

Malcolm's Vanessa related feelings certainly have a strong dose of the none paternal as well, but somehow with the sort of man he is I think acknowledging there is some sexual attraction there would be easier than to admit she's family (however you define it) and that he loves her (and has connected to her in a way he never managed to Peter and Mina). And I think it's really important in that showdown that he doesn't just choose to save Vanessa's life but to say out loud one of the emotional things she means to him (which he didn't have to in order to save her life). With his track record it was questionable whether he could ever change (different thing from being able to feel guilt), but the, in lack of a better term, acknowledgment of Vanessa was something he hadn't done before and so that was as important as letting go of Mina.

re: Victor, absolutely - and as opposed to poor Proteus, I don't think Caliban will dispatch of Creature!Brona, so Victor will soon find out that the only thing worse than having one Creature pissed off at you are two of them, who additionally are at odds with each other.

BTW, I love that Madame Kali's real name is Evelyn because it reminds me of one of my favourite DW audio characters. And yay for confirmed more Helen McCrory next season! She sparkled in that scene. And I don't believe for a minute she was acquiring a gun because she felt nostalgic about her late husband.

I shall hold you to your word if TPTB don't come through re: Christmas special. :)

[lonelywalker]

I love that Madame Kali's real name is Evelyn

There's a book I once read with a villain called Evelyn Carnitt.

[lonelywalker]

a gloriously dysfunctional Christmas special

This is ABSOLUTELY what we need. I'm sure fandom is already writing one. Or I'll have to.

Madame Kali is Malcolm's Bond Girl. Given that they both hang out at Q's lab. I assume her late husband being into shooting might be a clue - certainly we'll need someone with werewolf expertise. Or, given her already split identity, a Dr. Jekyll & Mrs. Hyde?

I'm still left to assume Dorian is "The Master", but honestly he just seemed like a little lost boy. (I guess he's also Peter Pan.) The Sembene situation is just embarrassing.

I don't really feel bad about Brona, because she was truly dying - unlike Van Helsing - and what Victor's doing for her is really all anyone could do. Although it'll be interesting to see if she's still "Brona". I'm with you that Victor was just humouring her with his "going to a better place" spiel.

Sembene/Dorian next season?

[selenak]

Jekyll & Hyde are due, aren't they? However, Madame Kali being a medium by profession I don't know whether that equals Jekyll's ultra respectable repressed existence. So my current guess is that she's a werewolf expert, probably a werewolf hunter, yes.

Dorian: never looked more clueless than when Vanessa dumped him and yes, there was a "Peter meets grown up Wendy" vibe there, which, if the John Logan writing our show is also the John Logan who wrote the play I've watched last year, "Peter and Alice", probably wasn't a coincidence. Now Once Upon A Time pulled off an evil overlord Peter Pan, but I doubt this show will.

Sembene/Dorian would give Sembene more screentime, if not necessarily more dialogue. :)

[wee_warrior]

Apparently, Jekyll's name can be seen in a newspaper ad in the pilot? So he definitely already exists.

That's the same John Logan, yes. He also co-writes the current Bond-Films, apparently.

Also, hi! Long time no... read? Makes sense you like this show. *g*

[selenak]

Hello again! Good that we share a show once more. And of course I do. :)

[lonelywalker]

I think Logan has said Jekyll & Hyde will be in the next season in some form. Or probably will be. But we definitely need some kind of werewolf expert, as I doubt any of the regular has a clue. (Then again, would it kill them to make Sembene the expert in something?)

Oooh, that's an interesting connection re: Peter Pan. Apparently it is the same John Logan. Peter himself probably comes too late to be in the series though.

[selenak]

...but what about Captain Hook?

[lonelywalker]

This is a good point. We could do with some pirates.

[wee_warrior]

I was fine with the way they finished the Mina storyline, especially with Malcolm finally giving in and acknowledging that Vanessa is his daughter, not whatever's left of Mina (and this fit Ethan's "she's your daughter, not some thing with fangs" so well. At the same time, ouch, Ethan, you poor thing with fangs.). I love their dynamic so much. I adore Vanessa, obviously, and Eva Green is awe-inspiring, but I have a soft spot for Malcolm, too, for all his horribleness. I also could listen to Timothy Dalton saying things like "exorcism" and "chicanery" all day.

Victor actually making steps towards accepting Caliban really surprised me, since their relationship has been understandably hostile, and Victor isn't exactly the emotionally maturest person. Of course then he had to go and be all shady about Brona and her death, though even that had weird aspects of genuine kindness among all the dubiousness. This will so come back to bite him, presumably literally. Nu!Brona will break all his limbs in new and interesting places, and then Ethan will turn him into a chew toy. And then Caliban will complain that he expected his mate to be far nicer. *shakes head* (Gods, I adore this character. Messed up scientists are my thing, anyway, as are non-combatant specialists, but he also reminds me of Ben Linus in a weird way. Also, Harry Treadaway is such a good actor, and so pretty /shallow.)

Ethan!!! Poor Wolfboy. That must have been the non-surprise of the year, yes? I mean, it's in the credits. I've wondered if the story he told about displaced native children will connect to his backstory somehow - maybe he cannot really control his wolf because his (bio? Adoptive?) father separated him from the indigenous part of his family? (I know, Josh Hartnett doesn't really look like he's Native American, but they could go for some kind of mixed heritage.)

Sembene's backstory is clearly *so amazing* they're saving it for later, to properly serve it. Anything else would be very stupid. *side eyes*

Dorian is very zzz, isn't he? I kept expecting him to turn out to be The Master or something, because so far, he's certainly the most superfluous castmember. As it was, I giggled at him discovering rejection. Poor, amoral immortal, the cool chick doesn't like you anymore.

The guest stars in this have been great as well. Helen McCrory, David Warner (*sob* Caliban, you brat!), even that kid who played Fenton. I'm hoping for lots of Madame Kali next season. I saw you talking about her possibly being a werewolf specialist below, but since she led the seance calling Amunet, couldn't she possibly also be involved in the Ancient Egyptians With Fangs shenanigans?

[lonelywalker]

Chicanery!

I'd forgotten that Victor's mother died of consumption, which probably colours his attitude to Brona - perhaps he wishes he could have ended her suffering too, and/or brought her back to life. It seems to have been a catalyst for his scientific interests, anyway.

Ancient Egyptians With Fangs
Ancient Werewolf Egyptians are clearly the natural predators of Ancient Vampire Egyptians. The hieroglyphs on the zombie vampire were actually spelling out the plot of Twilight.

[wee_warrior]

"With me you will behold terrible wonders..." now why do I never get job offers like that.

I definitely think Victor's mother and her fate colour the whole situation. When Victor told Ethan "She died gracefully, I promise you." I actually took that not as callousness, but as him meaning it, because to him, suffocating Brona saves her from going out as "unserenely" as his mother. This should also make Victor and Brona's future interactions very interesting. (Yay, Mommy-Daughter Issues?)

Ancient Werewolf Egyptians are clearly the natural predators of Ancient Vampire Egyptians. The hieroglyphs on the zombie vampire were actually spelling out the plot of Twilight.

*g* That explains so much.

Nice icon, btw!

[lonelywalker]

going out as "unserenely" as his mother
I think this also goes back to the conversation Ethan had with Malcolm, about Brona soon needing strong painkillers and no longer being herself (which Malcolm may have experienced too, seeing as his wife seemed to be on opiates a lot). At least Brona seemed to be compos mentis before she died.

Nice icon, btw!
Thank you! I think PD has proved that an army of vampires and demons is actually less dangerous than one fancy psychiatrist.

[wee_warrior]

I think this also goes back to the conversation Ethan had with Malcolm, about Brona soon needing strong painkillers and no longer being herself (which Malcolm may have experienced too, seeing as his wife seemed to be on opiates a lot). At least Brona seemed to be compos mentis before she died.

Yes, and apparently, they also did a bts thing on consumption, which makes me think they were really going out of their way on a Doylist level to show that this is "Victor Frankenstein once again makes a messed up decision based equally on his personal issues and his scientific hubris" as opposed to "Victor is totally psycho, and we just didn't tell you yet." as parts of tumblr seem to think. (I mean, it's tumblr. They are very excitable.)

I think PD has proved that an army of vampires and demons is actually less dangerous than one fancy psychiatrist.

They'd have to come up with a really scary character/actor combo to frighten me more than Mads Mikkelsen as Hannibal frightens me.

[lonelywalker]

I would've thought Tumblr would go for the "he's not evil, he's just misunderstood" angle. Although I suppose having an actual mental illness might possibly excuse or mitigate the whole murder / resurrection hobby. Alas Caliban can't just be his imagination.

I've wondered about the significance of blood: Brona coughing it up (over Dorian), Vanessa and Dorian engaging in bloodplay. Someone (ardyforshort, I think) had a good theory about consumption = AIDS in this tale of societal margins.

(Sorry if we're taking up your journal, selenak!)

[selenak]

Oh, go ahead! I love discussion! It's just that the Munich Film Festival currently prevents me from participating much. (People texting during going to hell and all that. :)

[wee_warrior]

Hmm, I felt it was mostly either not expecting he would go this far, or being put off that he would do this to Ethan after last episode (you know, because Ethan is more important than Brona in this situation).

Well, "stealing bodies and resurrecting them because you don't have loving family members or friends and are also obsessed with beating death" is not that much better on the mental health level, is it? I'm really glad he's not imagining Caliban, though, that would have been a bit too close to Jekyll/Hyde.

Blood: I mostly saw it as part of the Gothic aspect, or very broadly symbolizing death, but it could also "mark" characters as outsiders, in a way? I'm not sure. In addition to what you've said, we have the vampires, obviously, Caliban being born covered in blood, the people Ethan apparently ripped apart in the first two episodes, Victor getting drenched in blood both as a kid by his mother and later by Caliban with Proteus' blood, and all the Merry Vampire Hunters in the finale, of course. Not to mention Maude getting covered in artificial blood and her clogged blood tube being the way she first connects to Caliban. And Sembene mentioning that he and Malcolm share the same blood. I have no idea, actually.

Consumption as AIDS: it would fit for Brona, but not so much for Caroline Frankenstein, though, would it? Unless she also had interesting hobbies.

(Ditto!)

[wee_warrior]

And I'm just noticing that I expressed myself in a less than clear way: I think parts of tumblr felt the show was saying "Suddenly, Victor is really horrible," not that it was saying "Victor has a split personality." Which... I don't think the show has ever made a secret out of the protagonists being monstrous - to the point where they get called "monsters" by Ersatz!Renfield Fenton - and while Victor can be adorable, he also seemed to ponder tweener ballerinas as possible candidates for Caliban's gf, so I really don't understand the reaction. And additionally, I actually think the situation is remarkably more ambiguous than it could have been, thus, again, my surprise at the "outrage."

[selenak]

It's tumblr. Outrage and flailing seem to be the two default modes. Everything is either THE WORST or THE BEST, and everyone seems to interact in a permanent state of teenagedom.

*is in cranky 80 years stick shaking mode*

[wee_warrior]

I keep thinking this has to be over at some point and eventually, media fans will have to move to a platform where people actually have to listen to each other instead of just yelling. And then I notice that I'm just old and really want these people to get off my lawn.

*joins stick shaking*

[lonelywalker]

You know, I was thinking "Victor, why on earth are you stalking tween ballerinas?" But probably they were the only "women" he would feel confident abducting. (Although I still don't know why he didn't just go to the morgue.)

[wee_warrior]

It didn't seem really conscious to me, because he was waiting for Van Helsing at that point and just "doodling" excessively detailed anatomical drawings into his notebook and kind of looking over to the girls in an absent way - and then he suddenly writes "subject?" So it probably was one of these "Really, really bad idea" moments he seems to have so often (Maybe hitting the morphine a little less might help?)

Also, given that he seems to have stolen at least Proteus from the morgue, that probably should have been his route, which likely means he was actually stalling, but the serial killer scientist parts of his brain apparently stuck with the idea a bit.

[selenak]

I thought he was watching the ballerinas because it was the closest thing you can do in the Victorian age to watch the muscles of a female body in working motion, i.e. for anatomical studies so he connects the right a to the right be when creating a female Creature, actually.

[wee_warrior]

...that actually makes a lot of sense, now that you say it. *facepalm*

[selenak]

Re: Malcolm, I think one reason why I like him with all his horribleness is that the narrative never pretends he doesn't have the bad traits he has. It's when I get the impression that the character I watch isn't the same the show thinks it's writing that I have the problem. (See also: me loving Arvin Sloane but disdaining Bill Adama.) Also, Timothy Dalton has aged really well. He's one of those actors who did nothing for me when very young (say as Philippe II in The Lion in Winter - I mean, he's good in the part! Just not attractive to me at all), start to become attractive around the time they hit 40 (i.e. his James Bond interlude) but only acquire real sexiness in their later age. What is his secret?

Victor is definitely my favourite version of Victor Frankenstein (not an easy guy for me to like, but I definitely like this one, because, again; narrative never pretending he's other than what he is).

Definitely the non-surprise of the year, re: Ethan. Since one of the Pinkerton detectives actually was such a displaced Apache child raised as a Christian, this seems to be an ongoing theme. No, Josh Harnett doesn't look like he's Native American at all, but it occurs to me it could simply be the reverse in his case: i.e. as a baby he ended up with Native Americans, and some years later, perhaps as late as his teenage years, he was found and brought back to his biological white parents whom however he could no longer connect to, werewolf problems aside.

I giggled, too, I must admit, when Dorian discovered rejection.

[wee_warrior]

Re: Malcolm, I think one reason why I like him with all his horribleness is that the narrative never pretends he doesn't have the bad traits he has. It's when I get the impression that the character I watch isn't the same the show thinks it's writing that I have the problem. (See also: me loving Arvin Sloane but disdaining Bill Adama.)

That's a good point. He did and does horrible things, but at the same time he also has these moments of true vulnerability and love and kindness, that I have no trouble at all buying (like, I totally believe that he cares about Victor on a paternal level, or that he feels for Ethan when he discovers Brona has consumption, but that doesn't keep him from manipulating them or at least in case of Ethan, throw them under the bus if need be. Not to mention his relationship with Vanessa.). (And yeah, good old Bill Adama, although in that case the actor irritated me a fair bit, too. He had some odd moments later on.)

Also, Timothy Dalton has aged really well.

It's incredible. Roomie has said almost the same thing as you did, about him not having that much charisma when young, but having become really sexy now. I'd have no trouble at all believing that women like Helen McCrory, or Anna Chancellor, who played Vanessa's mother, would be into him.

What is his secret?

Given the current topic, a painting in the attic, clearly.

Victor is definitely my favourite version of Victor Frankenstein (not an easy guy for me to like, but I definitely like this one, because, again; narrative never pretending he's other than what he is).

I keep trying to come up with another version I really liked, but I think my brain shortcircuited when I remembered that Kenneth Branagh monstrosity a few years back (just no, Ken). That aside, one element I really like about this Victor is that he seems like a different approach to the character than you usually get, starting with casting an actor in his late twenties as opposed to middle-aged. He also has this ambiguity where he has elements that are truly tragic, as well as those that are likable, but at the same time he has flaws that make him hurt people even as he might partly be protecting himself, and partly just be inconsiderate because it is easier for him. I guess, lamely enough, he's a character in his own right instead of an icon. They managed to pull that off really well. (and better than with the other public domain characters so far I'd say, save maybe Van Helsing, who was cool.) He's also genuinely funny, which always helps.

Re: Ethan: Oh, that would make sense, too, and would give the poor guy a triple case of alienation (did I mention I like Ethan partly because he's not constantly angsting or brooding about his tragic life?).

If Dorian ever meets Caliban, the screen will explode in teenage angst and tortured prose.

[selenak]

he also has these moments of true vulnerability and love and kindness, that I have no trouble at all buying (like, I totally believe that he cares about Victor on a paternal level, or that he feels for Ethan when he discovers Brona has consumption, but that doesn't keep him from manipulating them or at least in case of Ethan, throw them under the bus if need be. Not to mention his relationship with Vanessa.).

Yep, it's both true of him; he's capable of compassion - and of being delighted for Vanessa when she twirls in front of him -, and he's capable of exploiting the same people he has compassion for - and of using Vanessa as bait. I'm really glad the show didn't kill him off which was one of the things I was secretly afraid of for the finale.

I'd have no trouble at all believing that women like Helen McCrory, or Anna Chancellor, who played Vanessa's mother, would be into him.

The importance of casting. I've had several shows where various interesting female characters played by compelling actresses were attracted to male characters who weren't interesting either by writing nor by the actors who played them. Whereas here, I believe it completely.

I appreciate Ethan not angsting all over the place, too; and I really like that he didn't make his distrust of Malcolm all about himself but kept the focus on Vanessa (which, btw, may very well be the reason why Malcolm listened and didn't dismiss what Ethan had to say).


If Dorian ever meets Caliban, the screen will explode in teenage angst and tortured prose.

Ah, but it would solve Caliban's problems of getting laid. I mean, Dorian is into unusual and new experiences, and deflowering a Creature Made By Science would definitely count as such. Otoh Caliban wants to mate with someone immortal, pretty and not afraid of him. Clearly, there is potential there.

[wee_warrior]

I'm really glad the show didn't kill him off which was one of the things I was secretly afraid of for the finale.

Oh yeah. As hinted before, my main impression of the fandom so far has been tumblr, and a bigger sample of people seemed to regard Sir M as the true Big Bad - because, Great White Hunter, as well as manipulative and general horrible specimen of the Victorian male - and were hoping for him to die. To which my (silent) reaction was mostly "oh, no redemption for the Old White Male, then? Doesn't seem so fair." I think it intersects with the group who dislike Victor after the finale whom I've mentioned in conversation with lonelywalker. Ironically, the same group loves Dorian because they think he digs consent. Telling a prostitute with TB you're curious what it feels like "to fuck a dying creature" apparently counts as nice nowadays.*shrugs*

Ah, but it would solve Caliban's problems of getting laid. I mean, Dorian is into unusual and new experiences, and deflowering a Creature Made By Science would definitely count as such. Otoh Caliban wants to mate with someone immortal, pretty and not afraid of him. Clearly, there is potential there.


I think you just invented a perfect new slash pairing for the show!

[lonelywalker]

Sir M as the true Big Bad - because, Great White Hunter, as well as manipulative and general horrible specimen of the Victorian male - and were hoping for him to die.

I thought that Malcolm might go down with Mina, unable to kill her. But it's far more interesting to see where he goes from here, now that he's embracing this new found family and trying to redeem himself in some kind of way. (Also I'm hoping that whatever the backstory is with him and Sembene that it leads to a view of his travels in Africa that isn't entirely "raped women, killed son, named mountain after myself". It's not that his behaviour is forgivable, but that he seems more complex than just "Big Bad".)

[wee_warrior]

I agree and I hope that, too, not least because Vanessa's Demon (or whoever it was at that point - not Amunet I think, she mostly talked to the boys. Very interested in love lives, that Amunet) specifically picked on horrible things Malcolm did. Sembene's POV has to provide some kind of counterpoint to that, I believe, not least because I cannot imagine Sembene staying with Malcolm or being his friend, if Malcolm's connection to Sembene's home continent is entirely hostile and destructive. Sembene is an underdeveloped character, but certainly not that sort of servile stereotype.

[selenak]

Absolutely. And in their conversation re: Mina, Sembene talked to Malcolm on an equal level, not as if addressing someone he's only ever seen act violently against his (Sembene's) own people. Also, in the big Vanessa episode we see them briefly talking in Kishuali (I think it's Kishuaeli), which means Malcolm when in Africa didn't rely on having a translator at hand or expecting everyone to understand when he speaks loud enough English (not an attitude limited to the Victorian age), but took the trouble/interest to learn the local language(s). Could be for purely pragmatic reasons (it's always easier to travel in a country when you speak the language), but it's still showing a positive curiosity of the mind about another culture.

[lonelywalker]

it would solve Caliban's problems of getting laid

I wonder whether Caliban lusts after women because he is innately heterosexual or because the books he's read are all about girl-boy love, and therefore he assumes that's a part of his life that's missing.

[wee_warrior]

Well, he does have really interesting chemistry with Victor, although that may have been the actors going for a "hostile exes" vibe between the characters. Again, Dorian to the rescue, I'd say. Helping people discover/expand their sexuality could keep him occupied for a while.

[lonelywalker]

There was an interview - maybe the one you linked the other day - where Dalton says he's not actually 70. But still, even if he's 68, holy crap. He looks great and he's doing all these action scenes just as much as the younger men.

And yeah, I have to admit that the exquisite masterpiece that is The Beautician and the Beast was where he hit peak sexiness for me.

Josh Hartnett is Hawkeye! Werewolf cowboy Hawkeye!

(Er, as in The Last of the Mohicans, not The Avengers.)

[selenak]

Not having watched The Beautician and the Beast, I cannot judge his level of sexiness there. :)

And hey, if we go by 19th archetypes, and Last of the Mohicans!Hawkeye qualifies (err, as in: the time he was written, not the time that novel takes place which if I recall correctly is late 18th century).

[lonelywalker]

It's sort of The Sound of Music without any music. Anyway, he's very dashing and has a Russianish accent.

I'm sure "raised by Indians" must've been a trope. Ethan's secret might be that he's secretly Daniel Day-Lewis.

[wee_warrior]

(just seeing this now, so jumping in late: from one of my American lit classes aeons ago I remember something like "abduction narratives" being an entire subgenre. That was more about frontier women getting kidnapped and living with Native tribes, though, I think.)

[wee_warrior]

I just watched the episode again with one half of my usual viewing conspirators, and a question came up that I found interesting: without internal voiceover as such, how do we know Victor is aiming to resurrect Brona for Caliban and not for Ethan? I mean, we all kind of assumed it, because he was kinder to Caliban before, but he never explicitly says: yep, I see you're sad, I'm building you a girlfriend.

(Dorian discovering rejection was still laughed at. We're mean old ladies, clearly.)

[selenak]

Good point, Victor could - I can see him proudly presenting the result to Ethan and being surprised Ethan gets upset. Then again, which is why I don't really believe that was his goal: going by what we've seen so far, Victor doesn't think his Creatures are the same people the bodies he used were, i.e. that he can literally bring a person dead. Surely, if he thought he could, he'd have tried it with Proteus or Van Helsing? What Proteus could access were memories of whoever his body belonged to, but the personality was new. Caliban has no memories of his body (or isn't conscious of them). Whoever the people they're made of were before, these are not them. So if Victor intends Nu!Brona for Ethan, that would imply he thinks Ethan doesn't care the body he's given has a new mind and isn't Brona anymore, and I don't believe Victor is that callous, or sees Ethan that way.

Dorian/Caliban OTP, I tell you.

[wee_warrior]

oing by what we've seen so far, Victor doesn't think his Creatures are the same people the bodies he used were, i.e. that he can literally bring a person dead.

Hmm. I don't think we really have proof for this? Partly it's possibly because I don't see it that way - Proteus seemed to me more like someone who had suffered brain damage and needed to relearn how to be a human essentially. His personality was very child-like, yes, but since we didn't know him before, and didn't observe him for very long, we don't know how much of this was part of his personality in the first place - even a whaler might be upset about killing whales deep inside - and we don't know how his personality would have ended up. Clearly, we are lacking data. But, no, I don't think Victor is that callous or sees Ethan that way. He does, however, desperately want to impress him, and I felt that was a little at odds with using his girlfriend's body to create a mate for Caliban. But we will see. (in a year, or so. *sobs*)

(ETA: I know some of you were thinking Victor was humouring Brona with the "between life and death" talk, but I believe that he was actually serious - if leaving out details. That also points to him thinking that Brona will still be Brona when she comes back.)

Trying to get Proteus or Van Helsing back, well, Proteus was maybe... too... torn? And Van Helsing may simply have been too old at that point. You know, tissue degeneration and all that. (I swear that I haven't been thinking about this so hard because I have a corpse and reanimation set in the basement.)

Well, Dorian loves opera, does he not? Caliban could finally give in to his second calling. He already loves skulking around in secret hallways. And I've heard Rory Kinnear sings quite well.

[wee_warrior]

(Oh, oh, btw, have you seen showtime's official Penny Dreadful site yet? It's interactive and has some neat little things, like some of the actors reading poetry. Danny Sapani's is especially awesome.)

[selenak]

No, I hadn't, but now that I have I can only access one video - must be doing something wrong?

[wee_warrior]

Hmm, works for me (using firefox). The poetry readings are audio files, which you can access throughout the page: they are usually close to character pictures. A card on Ethan's right saying "a vision" opens a reading by Josh Hartnett, a bit below that in the middle you get "She walks in beauty" read by Reeve Carney (with a Dorian picture on the left).
Below that, also in the middle, you have a reading of "Ode To A Nightingale", with Timothy Dalton on the right, below that you have "Darkness" read by Danny Sapani (Sembene on the left), and below that you have a picture of Victor, and a partial reading of "Ode on Intimations of Immortality" by Harry Treadaway on the left of that. The links are always on cards, surrounded by other stuff (Nightingale gets a bull's skull!). Do you have a popup blocker installed by any chance (shouldn't be the problem, but who knows).