We all have our squicks and kinks, and sometimes they just don't coincide. One fan's "OMG the Hawwwwt!" is another's "ew, ew, no way, scrub my brain". I tried to figure out whether my own squicks fall into particular categories, and at first came up with a blank; for example, when I thought I had something by "father figure/protegé 'ships just squick me" because of my feelings re Giles/Buffy (or indeed Giles/any of the Scoobies) or Londo/Vir , I realized I had no such objections towards, say, Sydney/Sloane (though I could point out here that this never could or should be portrayed as something nice or functional, even if you manage your way around the post-Danny-she-hates-his-guts factor and the thing where he does see her as a kind of daughter, in addition to whatever else he's feeling towards her). So, no general father-or-mentor figure/protegé objection.
Moving over from sort of incest to real incest, it's not that I have general objections there, either, it really depends on the pairing. (Justin/Iris 4EVAHHH! Also, they're canon. Not in a theirloveissocanon way, they're actually text canon on Carnivale.) Some popular incest pairings aren't anything I could see (say, Eowyn/Eomer, or Simon/River, especially in the later case, because in the state River is in, Simon would sooner castrate himself, imo), but it's not like their existence gets a visceral reaction out of me.
But there are pairings that distinctly evoke something beyond "huh? not my coup of tea, I guess". Something like visceral dislike. (Disclaimer: if the following examples should be your pairing of choice, don't feel insulted. I'm sure some of my pairings might be equally objectionable to you.) And I think I finally figured out a common denominator, when talking with
andrastewhite via email.
It's the lack of respect factor. Pairings going from best friends to lovers? I can see that. Pairings that go from mortal enemies to sex against the wall? I can see that, too. (Actually, I did see that, in BTVS canon.) Whether or not I like it oftne depends on the characters in question and on the skill of the fanfic writer. However, it also depends on a) whether the characters in question have an interesting relationship in canon already (can be friendly, can be hostile, but must be interesting and there and present before the sex factor enters, and b) whether there is some basic equality and respect between the characters in question.
Londo and G'Kar go from your basic Narn/Centauri feud to hate founded on personal wrongdoings to friendship to whatever you want to call it in season 5, but they always, at every stage, respect each other. ("If I can figure it out, so can he," G'Kar says to Mariel in season 2's Soul Mates.) (Same, btw, applies for Londo and Timov, though we only see her in this episode, which is why I like Londo's wife so much.) Xavier and Magneto, in their movieverse incarnations and what bits of the comicverse I've read, always respect each other, through friendship and adversity. Jack Bristow and Irina Derevko, and Jack Bristow and Arvin Sloane respect each other, don't underestimate each other, and are equals in terms of intelligence and capability. You get the picture. I dig equality and respect.
And that probably explains that when I casually surf the lists and see people talking about Xander/Spike or Jack/Vaughn, I get squicked. Because even brushing all canon attachments to other people aside... there is the basic lack of equality and respect. The Xander I saw on BTVS doesn't just dislike Spike, he demonstrates contempt towards him pretty much consistently throughout the show. Conversely, I don't recall a scene where Spike said something complimentary about Xander, or expressed respect for him in another way. And while Jack ( spoiler for season 4 finale ), the only times he ever bothers with talking to the man throughout four season either have to do with helping Sydney or with his own Irina issues. He shows no interest in Vaughn as a person beyond that, nor sympathy. Vaughn for his part goes from resenting Jack (in early season 1) to respecting him, by all means, but again, it comes across as being about the "Sydney's father whom I would like to approve of me" factor. Just compare it with Marshall's fanboying Jack Bristow as Jack.
Of course, no sooner had I decided that at last I had some name for my visceral dislike, and was being logical and thorough about it, that my inconvenient brain pointed out to me that after watching RotS, I read not one but two Anakin/Palpatine fics (with no actual sex happening, but the emotional thing was certainly there) and was not squicked in the least. And there is certainly no equality there. Curse all Sith lords. Because that leaves me in the dark again about why I feel like retching whenever I see someone mentioning Jack/Vaughn...
Moving over from sort of incest to real incest, it's not that I have general objections there, either, it really depends on the pairing. (Justin/Iris 4EVAHHH! Also, they're canon. Not in a theirloveissocanon way, they're actually text canon on Carnivale.) Some popular incest pairings aren't anything I could see (say, Eowyn/Eomer, or Simon/River, especially in the later case, because in the state River is in, Simon would sooner castrate himself, imo), but it's not like their existence gets a visceral reaction out of me.
But there are pairings that distinctly evoke something beyond "huh? not my coup of tea, I guess". Something like visceral dislike. (Disclaimer: if the following examples should be your pairing of choice, don't feel insulted. I'm sure some of my pairings might be equally objectionable to you.) And I think I finally figured out a common denominator, when talking with
It's the lack of respect factor. Pairings going from best friends to lovers? I can see that. Pairings that go from mortal enemies to sex against the wall? I can see that, too. (Actually, I did see that, in BTVS canon.) Whether or not I like it oftne depends on the characters in question and on the skill of the fanfic writer. However, it also depends on a) whether the characters in question have an interesting relationship in canon already (can be friendly, can be hostile, but must be interesting and there and present before the sex factor enters, and b) whether there is some basic equality and respect between the characters in question.
Londo and G'Kar go from your basic Narn/Centauri feud to hate founded on personal wrongdoings to friendship to whatever you want to call it in season 5, but they always, at every stage, respect each other. ("If I can figure it out, so can he," G'Kar says to Mariel in season 2's Soul Mates.) (Same, btw, applies for Londo and Timov, though we only see her in this episode, which is why I like Londo's wife so much.) Xavier and Magneto, in their movieverse incarnations and what bits of the comicverse I've read, always respect each other, through friendship and adversity. Jack Bristow and Irina Derevko, and Jack Bristow and Arvin Sloane respect each other, don't underestimate each other, and are equals in terms of intelligence and capability. You get the picture. I dig equality and respect.
And that probably explains that when I casually surf the lists and see people talking about Xander/Spike or Jack/Vaughn, I get squicked. Because even brushing all canon attachments to other people aside... there is the basic lack of equality and respect. The Xander I saw on BTVS doesn't just dislike Spike, he demonstrates contempt towards him pretty much consistently throughout the show. Conversely, I don't recall a scene where Spike said something complimentary about Xander, or expressed respect for him in another way. And while Jack ( spoiler for season 4 finale ), the only times he ever bothers with talking to the man throughout four season either have to do with helping Sydney or with his own Irina issues. He shows no interest in Vaughn as a person beyond that, nor sympathy. Vaughn for his part goes from resenting Jack (in early season 1) to respecting him, by all means, but again, it comes across as being about the "Sydney's father whom I would like to approve of me" factor. Just compare it with Marshall's fanboying Jack Bristow as Jack.
Of course, no sooner had I decided that at last I had some name for my visceral dislike, and was being logical and thorough about it, that my inconvenient brain pointed out to me that after watching RotS, I read not one but two Anakin/Palpatine fics (with no actual sex happening, but the emotional thing was certainly there) and was not squicked in the least. And there is certainly no equality there. Curse all Sith lords. Because that leaves me in the dark again about why I feel like retching whenever I see someone mentioning Jack/Vaughn...