Obi-Wan, Thor and the Serpent Queen 1.06.
Nov. 2nd, 2022 11:19 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
selenakIt's my annual time of submission to the Mouse again, aka paying for Disney +, catching up with various things from last year.
Obi-Wan- Kenobi: mostly I liked it, though unfortunately a key scene had me muttering "you stole that from a Vader/Anakin & Ahsoka scene, screenwriter, I hope you're paying Dave Filoni" , more about this later.
The best thing about the miniseries is undoubtedly a) Ewan McGregor acting his heart out as traumatized, guilt ridden Obi-Wan, and b) the miniseries finally giving us some lengthy Leia screen content for the first time since Return of the Jedi. (Since Leia's appearances in the sequel trilogy were so brief, for sad rl reasons.) Granted, the "battered warrior and adorable kid" combination is formula by now, but hey, if it works, I'm all for it. Not to mention it's the first thing that makes sense of Leia calling her son "Ben". And it's great that we see her with Bail Organa and Breha being great parents. I also think the miniseries handled kid!Leia's attitude re: adopted and biological parentage just right. She's always known she was adopted and doesn't have hang-ups about it, Bail and Breha are her much loved and loving parents, but that doesn't preclude her being curious when she has the chance to find out a bit about her biological parents.
Other good contributions to existing Star Wars lore: Owen and Beru getting some scenes; Owen in ye really olde days (before the prequels, even) got some flack from fans which I always thought was unfair, so it was good to have a sympathetic portrayal here, and I salute fierce!Beru doing her best to defend her nephew.
Now, one big narrative problem any series with siuch a premise as this one has is that on the one hand, you want to include Vader/Anakin, but on the other, not only can neither he nor Obi-Wan die but he can't have the kind of emotional cathartic character development he will have once Luke shows up, so basically, any use of him is going to be repetitive of what has already been said. The mniseries sort of got around this by firstly using the Vader encounters as a way to get Obi-Wan out of his gulty stupor and to a frame of mind where he could move on, and secondly throuigh the development of its most important OC, Reva/Third Sister, a former Jedi youngling surviving the massacre, turned Inquisitor, because Reva, as an OC, can have the character development Vader can't. Reva is played by Moses Ingram who can to menacing and emotionally shattered both.
So far so good. But. There are two things which bothered me during the big final confrontation in episode six and kept me from being as moved as I wanted to be. Firstly, several elements of that scene - the helmet split open, the one moment of Anakin/Vader speaking with his actual voice to his old paradawan/Master before returning to Vaderiism, even the "I destroyed Anakin Skywalker" - I had already scene before. And in a way that for me, worked better, because here's the second thing. Obi-Wan leaves Vader alive. Again. After having declared "then my friend is truly dead" and "Goodbye, Darth". In Revenge of the Sith, Obi-Wan not killing Anakin is both emotionally complex and ambigous - on the one hand, in the state Anakin was in (burning, minus two legs and an arm), it stood to reason he was already dying, and Obi-Wan was already shattered, see also the first and last time he said "I loved you", on the other hand, if it had been Palpatine, I think Obi-Wan would have both made sure and done the mercy kill thing instead of leaving him. But by episode 6 of this miniseries, Obi-Wan has worked through the shock that Anakin is alive, Vader = Anakin, and that Vader is being All Evil, All The Time they meet. He's just been handed absolution of sorts by the man himself when Anakin/Vader says "You didn't kill Anakin Skywalker, Obi-Wan, I did". He also has no doubt Vader is one of the most powerful tools in Palpatine's possession. What's more, he believes Vader to be an active danger to Luke and Leia, whom he now cares for not just in the abstract and at a distance. And he's no longer the desperate man from the end of Revenge of the Sith or the start of the miniseries. Basically, there is no Watsonian reason for Obi-Wan at this point to not kill Darth Vader, there's only the Doylist one that he can't because of the Star Wars continuity.
(And seriously, Star Wars: Rebels handled this better with the Vader/Anakin and Ahsoka encounter, not least because Ahsoka isn't in a position to kill him by the time it ends.)
Lastly: the Indira Varma played other important OC, Tala Durith, was great, but unfortunately I could see her being the one scheduled for the tragic death a mile away. It would have been more surprising and creative if she'd lived.
Thor: Love and Thunder: I am in the absolute minority of MCU watchers in that I didn't likie Thor: Ragnarök all that much - in fact, I liked the Thor content of Avengers: Infinity Wars better in what it did with Thor than the entirety of Ragnarök - and what I heard about this latest movie didn't inspire me to seek it out in the theatre. But since I did submit to the Mouse, I thought I might as well, and yeah. All the elements I disliked, multliplied, for two thirds of the movie. Unrelenting joke joke joke slaptstick joke slapstick squashing anything resembling actual emotion right until the point when Thor finds out Jane has cancer, at which point the moviefinally allows some none-jokey emotion. This was kept up til and including Gore's death scene, at which point we went back to jokey-ness again. Look, I like my humor between the drama as much as the next fan, but Taika Waititi's brand just doesn't work for me.
In Disney- unrelated news, I also watched the last episode of The Serpent Queen's first season. (Is it the first? Or is that supposed to be it?)
Rahima figured out the same thing I did, that the supposed letter from Elizabeth to Mary is faked and serves the purpose of making Mary leave France. I must say, Rahima as the last narrator works better for me than Mary as the narrator of the last but one episode, and while I doubt it's meant as serious as this, one could even argue the characterisations are based on what Rahima has been told by Catherine plus her own speculation. Anyway: Catherine changing plans once Francis starts with the blood coughing and she realises her son is dying to screwing over the Bourbons and Guises both in order to become Regent, and effortlessly playing Mary while still standing the risk of losing via the botched killing of surviving!Montmorency works for me, as does Montmerency proving himself the one unseffish noble at the French court who realises Catherine actually is the best suited for the regency. If there is a second season, though, I really want consequences to the fact that Catherine's increasing ruthlessness has now alienated her from her servants. (I mean, I think that's realistic! I just want consequences.)
Catherine's final answer to Rahima as to what she wants power for - not vengeance but freedom (for herself) - was a good and plausible twist to the expected, especially given that her fate was at other people's disposal for most of the show. But people who have learned to regard power as a zero sum game (either you have all the power, or you have none, there is no in between) are the most dangerous, as another of my fandom could tell you. I also thought the show handled Francis' death scene very well - on thee one hand, he asked her for death to stop the pain, on the other, he also told her she will have to live with her choices.
Mary, unfortunately, was ultiimately a too one note character (naive teenage fanatic, that was it) to be a worthy opponent, so I was glad to see Diane among the crowd in the final scene. I mean, if this show can keep Charles V. around way beyond his expiration date, they can keep Diane around, who is a far more interesting character than Mary in this series. And I still want to know what Ruggieri gets out of all this.
Lastly: this episode has some actual history in that Catherine did trick/blackmail Antoine de Bourbon into signing over the regency to her by using his incarcerated brother Louis as leverage (who was then duly released), though minus cut off fingers or attempted kidnapping plots being involved.
Obi-Wan- Kenobi: mostly I liked it, though unfortunately a key scene had me muttering "you stole that from a Vader/Anakin & Ahsoka scene, screenwriter, I hope you're paying Dave Filoni" , more about this later.
The best thing about the miniseries is undoubtedly a) Ewan McGregor acting his heart out as traumatized, guilt ridden Obi-Wan, and b) the miniseries finally giving us some lengthy Leia screen content for the first time since Return of the Jedi. (Since Leia's appearances in the sequel trilogy were so brief, for sad rl reasons.) Granted, the "battered warrior and adorable kid" combination is formula by now, but hey, if it works, I'm all for it. Not to mention it's the first thing that makes sense of Leia calling her son "Ben". And it's great that we see her with Bail Organa and Breha being great parents. I also think the miniseries handled kid!Leia's attitude re: adopted and biological parentage just right. She's always known she was adopted and doesn't have hang-ups about it, Bail and Breha are her much loved and loving parents, but that doesn't preclude her being curious when she has the chance to find out a bit about her biological parents.
Other good contributions to existing Star Wars lore: Owen and Beru getting some scenes; Owen in ye really olde days (before the prequels, even) got some flack from fans which I always thought was unfair, so it was good to have a sympathetic portrayal here, and I salute fierce!Beru doing her best to defend her nephew.
Now, one big narrative problem any series with siuch a premise as this one has is that on the one hand, you want to include Vader/Anakin, but on the other, not only can neither he nor Obi-Wan die but he can't have the kind of emotional cathartic character development he will have once Luke shows up, so basically, any use of him is going to be repetitive of what has already been said. The mniseries sort of got around this by firstly using the Vader encounters as a way to get Obi-Wan out of his gulty stupor and to a frame of mind where he could move on, and secondly throuigh the development of its most important OC, Reva/Third Sister, a former Jedi youngling surviving the massacre, turned Inquisitor, because Reva, as an OC, can have the character development Vader can't. Reva is played by Moses Ingram who can to menacing and emotionally shattered both.
So far so good. But. There are two things which bothered me during the big final confrontation in episode six and kept me from being as moved as I wanted to be. Firstly, several elements of that scene - the helmet split open, the one moment of Anakin/Vader speaking with his actual voice to his old paradawan/Master before returning to Vaderiism, even the "I destroyed Anakin Skywalker" - I had already scene before. And in a way that for me, worked better, because here's the second thing. Obi-Wan leaves Vader alive. Again. After having declared "then my friend is truly dead" and "Goodbye, Darth". In Revenge of the Sith, Obi-Wan not killing Anakin is both emotionally complex and ambigous - on the one hand, in the state Anakin was in (burning, minus two legs and an arm), it stood to reason he was already dying, and Obi-Wan was already shattered, see also the first and last time he said "I loved you", on the other hand, if it had been Palpatine, I think Obi-Wan would have both made sure and done the mercy kill thing instead of leaving him. But by episode 6 of this miniseries, Obi-Wan has worked through the shock that Anakin is alive, Vader = Anakin, and that Vader is being All Evil, All The Time they meet. He's just been handed absolution of sorts by the man himself when Anakin/Vader says "You didn't kill Anakin Skywalker, Obi-Wan, I did". He also has no doubt Vader is one of the most powerful tools in Palpatine's possession. What's more, he believes Vader to be an active danger to Luke and Leia, whom he now cares for not just in the abstract and at a distance. And he's no longer the desperate man from the end of Revenge of the Sith or the start of the miniseries. Basically, there is no Watsonian reason for Obi-Wan at this point to not kill Darth Vader, there's only the Doylist one that he can't because of the Star Wars continuity.
(And seriously, Star Wars: Rebels handled this better with the Vader/Anakin and Ahsoka encounter, not least because Ahsoka isn't in a position to kill him by the time it ends.)
Lastly: the Indira Varma played other important OC, Tala Durith, was great, but unfortunately I could see her being the one scheduled for the tragic death a mile away. It would have been more surprising and creative if she'd lived.
Thor: Love and Thunder: I am in the absolute minority of MCU watchers in that I didn't likie Thor: Ragnarök all that much - in fact, I liked the Thor content of Avengers: Infinity Wars better in what it did with Thor than the entirety of Ragnarök - and what I heard about this latest movie didn't inspire me to seek it out in the theatre. But since I did submit to the Mouse, I thought I might as well, and yeah. All the elements I disliked, multliplied, for two thirds of the movie. Unrelenting joke joke joke slaptstick joke slapstick squashing anything resembling actual emotion right until the point when Thor finds out Jane has cancer, at which point the moviefinally allows some none-jokey emotion. This was kept up til and including Gore's death scene, at which point we went back to jokey-ness again. Look, I like my humor between the drama as much as the next fan, but Taika Waititi's brand just doesn't work for me.
In Disney- unrelated news, I also watched the last episode of The Serpent Queen's first season. (Is it the first? Or is that supposed to be it?)
Rahima figured out the same thing I did, that the supposed letter from Elizabeth to Mary is faked and serves the purpose of making Mary leave France. I must say, Rahima as the last narrator works better for me than Mary as the narrator of the last but one episode, and while I doubt it's meant as serious as this, one could even argue the characterisations are based on what Rahima has been told by Catherine plus her own speculation. Anyway: Catherine changing plans once Francis starts with the blood coughing and she realises her son is dying to screwing over the Bourbons and Guises both in order to become Regent, and effortlessly playing Mary while still standing the risk of losing via the botched killing of surviving!Montmorency works for me, as does Montmerency proving himself the one unseffish noble at the French court who realises Catherine actually is the best suited for the regency. If there is a second season, though, I really want consequences to the fact that Catherine's increasing ruthlessness has now alienated her from her servants. (I mean, I think that's realistic! I just want consequences.)
Catherine's final answer to Rahima as to what she wants power for - not vengeance but freedom (for herself) - was a good and plausible twist to the expected, especially given that her fate was at other people's disposal for most of the show. But people who have learned to regard power as a zero sum game (either you have all the power, or you have none, there is no in between) are the most dangerous, as another of my fandom could tell you. I also thought the show handled Francis' death scene very well - on thee one hand, he asked her for death to stop the pain, on the other, he also told her she will have to live with her choices.
Mary, unfortunately, was ultiimately a too one note character (naive teenage fanatic, that was it) to be a worthy opponent, so I was glad to see Diane among the crowd in the final scene. I mean, if this show can keep Charles V. around way beyond his expiration date, they can keep Diane around, who is a far more interesting character than Mary in this series. And I still want to know what Ruggieri gets out of all this.
Lastly: this episode has some actual history in that Catherine did trick/blackmail Antoine de Bourbon into signing over the regency to her by using his incarcerated brother Louis as leverage (who was then duly released), though minus cut off fingers or attempted kidnapping plots being involved.
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Date: 2022-11-02 10:29 am (UTC)Lots of interesting D+ Marvel stuff this year with Moon Knight, Ms Marvel and She-Hulk. I'd be interested in your thoughts on Dr Strange sequel as well.
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Date: 2022-11-02 02:42 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-11-02 02:59 pm (UTC)What amuses me is lots of people who liked Ragnarok turned their noses up at L&T despite it being the same shtick.
Minus Loki, I wonder whether that's what makes the difference to other watchers?
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Date: 2022-11-02 03:03 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-11-02 02:37 pm (UTC)Oh man you can come sit by me. I hated Ragnarok so much I think I saw it maybe twice and skipped large parts of it on rewatch. And then that terrible ending! Blah. Hemsworth apparently wants to do comic Thor or nothing but I think he's much better at serious Thor.
All the elements I disliked, multliplied, for two thirds of the movie. Unrelenting joke joke joke slaptstick joke slapstick squashing anything resembling actual emotion right until the point when Thor finds out Jane has cancer, at which point the moviefinally allows some none-jokey emotion. This was kept up til and including Gore's death scene, at which point we went back to jokey-ness again. Look, I like my humor between the drama as much as the next fan, but Taika Waititi's brand just doesn't work for me.
It's like the MCU quippiness (because of Whedon?) turned up to 11 and it drives me nuts. I did like that Portman finally got to do Jane some justice with an actual arc and at least she wasn't a credited voiceover made of recycled footage, but the tone whiplash was astounding. And Sif and Val were so underused!
I remember thinking when I first heard about this movie that since Loki was coming out first, we'd get some scenes with a multiverse Loki and our Thor. Hahahaha no.
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Date: 2022-11-02 02:43 pm (UTC)Preach! Sif has always been underused. And given the initial synopsis for L&T was 'Valkyrie goes on a quest to find her queen' the final result is so disappointing.
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Date: 2022-11-02 02:48 pm (UTC)I liked the post-credits scene but also, way to totally waste Idris Elba. He looks so gorgeous in that Asgardian costume.
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Date: 2022-11-02 04:15 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-11-02 02:54 pm (UTC)He's good at comedy in general, what Ragnarök, not Infinity Wars but Endgame and now L & T do is relentless slapstick/farce, which is a different thing imo, and serious character moments to balance them.
It's like the MCU quippiness (because of Whedon?) turned up to 11 and it drives me nuts.
I don't think you can blame Joss Whedon for this one. Guardians of the Galaxy was the first MCU movie with that kind of relentless Joke Joke Joke Joke by every single character. The two Whedon contributes, Avengers and Age of Ultron, do have their jokes, but definitely enough character stuff (love it or hate it, but it's there) in between, and the humor was ic for whover used it. I.e. Tony Stark did not sound like Thor who did not sound like Natasha who did not sound like Steve etc.
And Sif and Val were so underused!
The depiction of Sif was insulting, I thought. ("Your arm goes to Valhalla" - really?) You could tell from Ragnarök already that Waitititi just doesn't care for either the Warriors Three or Sif, and this underlines it. Val is one of his own contributions to the MCU, so she does get fight scenes, comedy scenes and one emotional scene, but definitely not to the extent she could have. Agreed that Jane got something like her own arc, though I would have preferred it if she'd used a combination of science and magic/Thor power for her final strike against Gor.
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Date: 2022-11-02 03:01 pm (UTC)though I would have preferred it if she'd used a combination of science and magic/Thor power for her final strike against Gor.
Oh, that would have been fab, especially given the scene with her explaining her book to the kid who was also getting a chemo infusion. It sounds like that would have required actual worldbuilding, though. :-/
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Date: 2022-11-02 06:02 pm (UTC)Also, I think you added one extra too many "Ti" to Waititi ;).
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Date: 2022-11-06 06:52 pm (UTC)But the comic angle is canonical. The original legends have Thor as being a bit thick...
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Date: 2022-11-07 02:09 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-11-02 07:26 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-11-02 02:58 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-11-03 09:07 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-11-02 03:43 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-11-03 09:12 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-11-02 04:18 pm (UTC)Agree about Mary, they could have done way more with her character.
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Date: 2022-11-03 09:16 am (UTC)Given they had the Bourbons and Guises swear vengance in the finale, and given that Catherine‘s real life regency had her trying to navigate between both parties which worked for a while but then ended up in the horrible tragedy of the St. Bartholomew‘s massacre, and given all the soap opera between her children, there‘s more than enough plot to fashion material for a second season.
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Date: 2022-11-02 07:11 pm (UTC)Ugh, I was afraid of this, which is why I haven't watched it yet ...
(I feel the same way you do about Ragnarok. It's all bathos where I needed pathos.)
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Date: 2022-11-03 09:19 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-11-02 07:23 pm (UTC)I liked the Obi-Wan/Anakin stuff but I haven't seen the thing with Ashoka in so this was all new to me. I was mostly just glad to see Ewan McGregor playing the character with a decent script to work with, tbh. I LOVED that Leia was such a big part of the story, especially after the trailer implied it'd be about watching over Luke which is fine but Leia is the one who needed/deserved a bit of limelight. (Do Disney+ do abnormally misleading trailers, BTW? I watched the Loki one after seeing the show and was like "oooooh, now I see why so many people were expecting a Slashy Police Procedural With Time-Travel before the character they CGI'd out of half the scenes in the trailer showed up.")
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Date: 2022-11-03 09:23 am (UTC)Misleading trailers: hah, you know, I wouldn‘t be surprised if that‘s true.
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Date: 2022-11-02 07:43 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-11-03 09:27 am (UTC)