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selenak: (Not from Nottingham by Calapine)
[personal profile] selenak
Turns out I feel about the three seasons of Picard very much like I do about the Star Wars Sequel trilogy - i.e. I liked the middle installment best, and then the last part throws out everything l loved and/or appreciated about said middle installment as if it didn't happen, not coincidentally story elements, character development and twists that felt genuinenly innovative, in favour of doing a last season that to me feels like a mixture of DO NOT WANT, squeezing the nostalgia well dry and a very very few bits I did like. And ST: Picard doesn't have the excuse of switching storytellers between installments (at least I'm assuming Matalas is responsible for all three seasons?)l. This is of course why I haven't reviewed the last few episodes. I disliked what whas going on so much that I wouldn't have continued watching if this wasn't the last season.

A few more detailed observations, but not too many, because I like these characters and actors, and I don't feel well trashing something they've worked on:



- till the very end, I kept waiting for a single linie of dialogue of someone mentioning Agnes Jurati and the fact her Borg had evolved into a different type, but no; clearly we were pretending the most interesting thing ST did with the Borg since Seven of Nine made her debut never happened

- I, like I guess most watchers, had loved the s1 episode Nepenthe co-starring Will and Deanna (and their daughter Kestra), and Picard's interactions with them; the lesson Matalas evidently drew from this was that he ought to bring back Will full time, Deanna only in the last third, tell us that they were not, as we saw in s1, a family and couple who had gone through terrible times but had managed to face it together and get through it, no, Will never coped and Deanna used her empathic abilities to suppress his pain and that's why they temporarily split up when he found out, and also they didn't really like staying on Nepenthe, they're glad to get away (ugh)

- Laris: forgotten completely after the opening episode, because hey, it's not like Picard is in a long term relationship with her

- I'm all for Seven and Raffi ending up together, that was one of the few things I liked (along with Seven as Captain and Raffi as First Officer - I was all set up to rant at the Jack Crusher as Captain idea, you got me there, Matalas, I admit, and mightily relieved when it turned out to be a fake, so okay, good bluff) , but having them break up off screen twice between seasons feels just to random in retrospect and as if Matalas couldn't think of anything but a getting back together thing (maybe he just sucks at depicting actually functioning long term romantic relationships? I wouldn't know, as I haven't watched the 12 Monkeys series, but that would explain the Will and Deanna rewriting, and the making Laris go from friend to love interest to not mentioned again thing as well)

- Jack as the element missing from Picard's life: look, as opposed to many, I was only mildly fond of Elnor the Space Elf, but since the show introduced him in the first season explicitly as someone Picard briefly bonded with when Elnor was a child and then failed to be the father figure Elnor expected (or any at all, given he withdrew into the hermit life for years), only for them to reunite as adults and patch this up, what did we need Jack for? Right, to be a biological son so they could use the Locutus altered DNA plot device. No, that's not cutting it for me.

- Good for Alice Krige to make a comeback as the Borg Queen from First Contact, I don't begrudge her that last appearance, but still: utterly failing to mention Jurati Queen after the stunning job two actresses did last season as Agnes and the Queen in the best arc this show did in three seasons made me unable to appreciate her return

- just in case anyone found Q's death moving last season and also falling into the category of the show actually doing character development and something that hadn't been done before with Q, we get the post credits scene with Jack and Q. Ugh. Triple Ugh.

- yes, the poker game at the end of TNG was one of the series endings ever after one of the best finales (still for my money the best finale of an ST show), but one of the reasons why it was so meaningful at the end of All Good Things... was that it not only symbolilzed everyone's friendship but actual character development for Picard, whereas this poker game was just another nostalgia squeezing


On the plus side:

- I could see it coming a mile away, but Picard connecting himself to the Collective, thereby facing his greatest fear/guilt, in order to save his son did work thematically within the season

- Seven and Raffi retaking the Titan with a few others was great, and so was the reveal of them as Captain and First Officer of the Enterprise G/former Titan at the end

- in fact, all things Seven in the finale, including her reunion with Real!Tuvok (I mean, I was hoping for Janeway, but Tuvok also works for me)

- Federation President Anton Chekov, son of Pavel, voiced by Walter Koenig, addressing everyone: now that's a lovely and meaningful cameo, which manages to pay homage to two Chekov actors at the same time by the first name (yes, to the playwright, too), though I will admit that Walter Koenig's voice is so much connected to Bester (from Babylon 5) for me by now I thought of my favourite Machiavellian Psi Cop first when hearing it

- Like the TNG gang, I was moved to hear the voice of the old Enterprise D again (i.e. Majel Barrett's voice)

- Worf and Raffi's last scene together, and the reveal that Worf made sure everyone (includling her son) learns about Raffi's heroism (and not just her most recent actions, but her heroic deeds through all the years before), thereby enabling at last a reconciliation for Raffi with her child: awww. Their team up was the best new thing about this season.

And that's it. I didn't hate all of it, but I disliked enough to ensure I will never rewatch this season again, which is not wh at I expected from a season starring all of my beloved TNG crew.

Date: 2023-04-21 07:14 am (UTC)
watervole: (Default)
From: [personal profile] watervole
They abandoned Laris? Nullifying an entire story arc.
Ha!

Date: 2023-04-21 01:22 pm (UTC)
aurumcalendula: image of Michael Burnham in profile overlaid with Discovery and the words 'to boldly go' (to boldly go)
From: [personal profile] aurumcalendula
the last part throws out everything l loved and/or appreciated about said middle installment as if it didn't happen [...] in favour of doing a last season that to me feels like a mixture of DO NOT WANT, squeezing the nostalgia well dry and a very very few bits I did like

Ugh, that sounds so frustrating!

Date: 2023-04-21 05:21 pm (UTC)
topaz_eyes: (blue cat's eye)
From: [personal profile] topaz_eyes
I adored "Nepenthe," I thought it was Frakes' and Sirtis' best work. I wasn't surprised that Will and Deanna had split afterwards, considering 80% of marriages in real life end in divorce after losing a child. Their reunion added to the happiness of the series finale.

the lesson Matalas evidently drew from this was that he ought to bring back Will full time, Deanna only in the last third

Matalas stated on Twitter that Deanna's limited appearance was due to distance and scheduling issues for Sirtis (https://screenrant.com/star-trek-picard-terry-matalas-troi-season-3/).

Yeah, I wasn't happy that no one addressed Agnes Jurati's S2 storyline at all. Maybe if they go ahead with a Star Trek: Legacy series we'll see the influence of Borg!Jurati at some point?

we get the post credits scene with Jack and Q. Ugh. Triple Ugh.

Eh, Q did tell Jack not to be so linear in his thinking. On one hand it dilutes the power of Q's death in S2. Otoh, if Q met Jack earlier in Q's timeline, it gives a stronger reason why Q forced Picard to confront his past with his parents in S2. (Other than the "you don't want to die alone like me.")

Date: 2023-04-22 08:56 pm (UTC)
topaz_eyes: (moonstar)
From: [personal profile] topaz_eyes
No worries, I should apologize for invading your space here. I know a few people who were extremely disappointed by S3 and their reasons why are absolutely valid. I lowered my expectations when I heard they were reassembling the old crew for S3. I figured everything would take a back seat to nostalgia, and it did. S3 dove too deep into fanservice for my taste, which imho did interfere with the story--eg I was not thrilled about Data's nth return at all, but nostalgia dictated he had to be there.

I agree, the finale pretty much appointed Jack as the next ST heir/lead even though Seven and Raffi are Captain and First Officer of the Enterprise-G. ("Special Counselor to the Captain"? Really? Cue eyeroll.) I agree with your observation that Jack does seem interchangeable with Picard. I think that's the plan.

It bothers me how the franchise seems to have decided to focus on its past rather than explore its future. TOS and TNG were "my" Star Treks of the past. ST: Discovery is "my" Star Trek of the present: I love it because it also looks forward to imagine a better, kinder place (going ahead 900 years did wonders there). But Discovery is ending in 2024 and meanwhile the rest of the current shows seem like the franchise is milking the cow for all it's worth. ST:Picard experimented with novel ideas in S1 and S2, and those seasons were fascinating to me as a result. I doubt we'll ever see those truly original characters again though (Agnes, Rios, Elnor, Soji, Laris). Would I watch a Star Trek: Legacy with Jack/Seven/Raffi/Q if it gets made? Probably. But only as a casual viewer, not a fan.

Date: 2023-04-21 06:22 pm (UTC)
lightofdaye: (Default)
From: [personal profile] lightofdaye
I was wondering if you'd fallen behind or just didn't have enough to say about the episodes since 6.

All season the complete disconnect to Season 2 has confused and infuriated me. They have Shaw allude to Jurati's collective in his Wolf 359 talk by saying they are still out there and ignore what happened on the Stargazer. But that's no excuse for Picard not to reference it even to rule out her helping.

The resolution of the Borg evolving into something compatible with common good and allying with the Federation is so more Star Trek than this episode which in all respects seems more Return of the Jedi than anything else.

Seven as Captain as Titan, I hoped for more on her Captaincy and leadership and at the same time thinking the re-naming of the old Titan as the Enterprise with her in command is far too fanservice-y.

All along, I just don't think Picard lived up to it's potential. Making this season TNG redux was just feels like they gave up.

Date: 2023-04-21 09:47 pm (UTC)
lizbee: A sketch of myself (Default)
From: [personal profile] lizbee
And ST: Picard doesn't have the excuse of switching storytellers between installments (at least I'm assuming Matalas is responsible for all three seasons?)

SO FUNNY STORY

The series was conceived by Kristen Beyer, but Michael Chabon was named showrunner because why would you choose a woman with television experience over a literary novelist doing his first series?

Chabon was extremely bad at showrunning, and was promoted upwards to develop an adaptation of his books instead. (Beyer seems to have left television all together, because that's what happens when you're a woman.)

To replace them, Terry Matalas and Akiva Goldsman were brought in. Matalas did the first half of season 2, then moved on to develop season 3, while Goldsman did the rest of season 2. Matalas showrun season 3 alone, and has spent the last few weeks on Twitter chumming around with Disco-hating Trekbros, blocking queer people, and accepting congratulations for singlehandedly saving Star Trek.

(I haven't actually watched season 3 because season 2's depiction of mental illness and domestic violence were literally triggering for me. I guess I'll get around to it eventually.)

Date: 2023-04-22 05:48 am (UTC)
kore: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kore
Matalas showrun season 3 alone, and has spent the last few weeks on Twitter chumming around with Disco-hating Trekbros, blocking queer people, and accepting congratulations for singlehandedly saving Star Trek

"The man who saved Trek!!" bullshit is pissing me off SO MUCH.

Date: 2023-04-22 11:22 pm (UTC)
lizbee: A sketch of myself (Default)
From: [personal profile] lizbee
The types of people he hangs out with are very telling. YouTubers who complain about the woke agenda and Michael Burnham.

Date: 2023-04-23 04:42 am (UTC)
kore: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kore
OMG, they're gonna party like it's 2017. //cries

Date: 2023-04-24 07:50 am (UTC)
bimo: (Quark_tribbles)
From: [personal profile] bimo
The types of people he hangs out with are very telling.

As someone who greatly enjoyed the Matalas-run Twelve Monkeys, I find this bit of information rather depressing. Lots of thanks for pointing it out, though. I had no idea...

(One aspect that leaves a particular bitter taste in my mouth: Twelve Monkeys has got pitch perfect continuity. So it stands to reason Matalas clearly knows how to do things properly, but in case of Picard simply decided against it.)

Date: 2023-04-22 01:01 am (UTC)
alethia: (ST Michael)
From: [personal profile] alethia
ST: Picard doesn't have the excuse of switching storytellers between installments (at least I'm assuming Matalas is responsible for all three seasons?)

Michael Chabon did S1, Akiva Goldsman and Matalas did S2 (with Matalas working on only the first half), and S3 is all Matalas. It seems like he basically decided to pick and choose what to include from the previous seasons, which I found downright confusing. I kept wondering where Jurati's Borg was. I still don't know. Are we supposed to assume that's an alt timeline? And also, Will and Deanna being so content in "Nepenthe" and broken up here was also just really confusing, timeline-wise. They're both sad about Thad's death in that episode, but don't seem to be the kind of grieving where Deanna would try to suppress Will's pain after we saw them. I guess you could squint and say Will fell into a funk after "Nepenthe" because grief isn't linear? But I'm not really sure.

For me, it's been fascinating to see the disconnect between fannish reaction and normie Trek-viewer reaction (critical vs elated, respectively). Personally, I'm on both side of it. I didn't like S3's emphasis on biological family as something inherently meaningful and felt they needed to earn the Jack-Picard relationship more than they did. (They should have done a time loop ep with them to let them actually spend time together and form the bond that is the resolution to everything at the end.) And I still don't think Beverly made the correct decision to hide Jack away. But I also liked seeing all the old favs and I like the new characters and I actually wouldn't be opposed to Seven getting her own show to continue these adventures. So, mixed bag.

Date: 2023-04-22 05:44 am (UTC)
kore: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kore
Yeah, this was me too. I loved the first two seasons, and Matalas seemed determined to wipe them all out, and it's nice to see the TNG crew getting so much love and "a real finale" (but....they already had one!) but I really didn't like the emphasis on nostalgia, or a lot of fans saying he "saved" Trek and that there was nothing good about the two earlier seasons, which were much more diverse and took risks.

Date: 2023-04-22 05:59 am (UTC)
kore: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kore
Yes, I love All Good Things! The parallel timelines are great and the poker game at the end feels really earned, and I loved how it was open-ended but emotionally satisfying. It really is a fantastic finale.

similar in spirit when it comes to ignoring the majority of the show it's supposed to be the finale of and being the worst kind of fanservice (all nostalgia, no creativity) instead.

I haven't seen Enterprise, but that is right on the money, yeah. And I really wasn't happy with how Seven and Raffi seemed sidelined, and how much of their relationship happened offscreen. And I was Not Happy that the whole Jurati Borg storyline got wiped out with Shaw literally saying "forget all that shit." And yes, Elnor is right there! They even brought him back! But he was there for one episode I think.

Date: 2023-04-22 06:19 pm (UTC)
maia: (The Inner Light)
From: [personal profile] maia
Completely agree.

I’m shocked at the poor quality of the writing. It’s one badly-written cliché after another after another. Beverly shows up with her 20-something son: what would be most cliché? He’s Picard’s son. And yep, he is indeed Picard’s son. The first time Shaw refused to call Seven by her preferred name, I thought, “He’s going to die and the last thing he’ll do before he dies will be to call Seven ‘Seven’” – and yep, that’s exactly what happens.
Borg-Jack is about to destroy the world, so Picard will risk his own life to find him, he’ll give Jack a hug and everything will be okay – and yep, that’s what happens.
(I do agree with you that: “Picard connecting himself to the Collective, thereby facing his greatest fear/guilt, in order to save his son did work thematically within the season” - and it could have been done well - but it was written so badly, it didn’t work for me at all. I should been moved; I wasn’t.)


I, like I guess most watchers, had loved the s1 episode Nepenthe co-starring Will and Deanna (and their daughter Kestra), and Picard's interactions with them; the lesson Matalas evidently drew from this was that he ought to bring back Will full time, Deanna only in the last third, tell us that they were not, as we saw in s1, a family and couple who had gone through terrible times but had managed to face it together and get through it, no, Will never coped and Deanna used her empathic abilities to suppress his pain and that's why they temporarily split up when he found out, and also they didn't really like staying on Nepenthe, they're glad to get away (ugh)

Yes.

Throughout the season: the characters’ choices don’t make sense; their mistakes don’t grow out of their particular histories and circumstances and flaws but rather seem randomly pasted-on by the writers; the interpersonal conflicts don’t ring true and their resolutions don’t ring true. Nothing is earned.

TNG was groundbreaking in its exploration of the repercussions of trauma. But here, instead of superbly-written episodes like “Family” and “Chain of Command” we get Riker behaving unprofessionally and endangering everyone because of the grief and trauma of his son’s death, which if well-written might be a powerful story but instead it’s just random nonsense, then Riker and Deanna being tortured and according to Vadic “not breaking” (because of course Good Guys Don’t Break) and instead of believing they can see five lights they use their captivity as a terrific opportunity to work on their relationship.

The one really interesting idea in the season was the young people being assimilated. That could have been such a good story, holding up a metaphorical mirror to intergenerational conflicts...it could have been brilliant. It would have been even more brilliant if it had been integrated into a story about Jurati’s Borg: it could have been a fascinating, complex, nuanced story about generations and cultural change. Instead it was just a plot device so the TNG crew could save the day, which, fine, I certainly liked seeing older characters be the heroes for once, but...it could have been so much more. And then the repercussions are never explored: Seven gives Sidney a hug and that’s it.

I feel terrible for the actors. They deserved so much better than this.
Edited Date: 2023-04-22 06:57 pm (UTC)

Date: 2023-04-23 04:46 am (UTC)
kore: (Default)
From: [personal profile] kore
Beverly shows up with her 20-something son: what would be most cliché? He’s Picard’s son. And yep, he is indeed Picard’s son. The first time Shaw refused to call Seven by her preferred name, I thought, “He’s going to die and the last thing he’ll do before he dies will be to call Seven ‘Seven’” – and yep, that’s exactly what happens.
Borg-Jack is about to destroy the world, so Picard will risk his own life to find him, he’ll give Jack a hug and everything will be okay – and yep, that’s what happens.


So much of it was so predictable! Which was bizarre, because I loved 12 Monkeys, Matalas' earlier show, and that was tightly plotted. But a lot of the personal conflicts and even the bigger plotlines were so....cliched.

Date: 2023-04-25 01:19 am (UTC)
labingi: (Default)
From: [personal profile] labingi
I pretty much agree with what you said. It sounds like we had somewhat different pet peeves, but I take your points. I agree with you that Elnor, who was really badly served in this series, would have been a much more appropriate "son" for Picard, and, hey, it's practically science fantasy: they could have figured out a plotline for his getting infected with Picard's Borginess.

I understand your frustration with S2 not being mentioned, especially since it's your favorite season. I thought S2 was largely a mistake, so I had a little sigh of relief that the writers seemed to agree, but overall, yes, it would have been nice if they'd had a coherent 3 seasons and remembered them.

I feel similarly about Laris. As a Picard/Crusher shipper, I always felt she was a bit in the way, but she's a great character in her own right, and given that they did get her together with Picard, suddenly writing her out with no mention was very odd.

If anyone is interested, I have posted my blather here.

Date: 2023-11-28 03:57 pm (UTC)
watervole: (Default)
From: [personal profile] watervole
Juarti - yes, yes, yes! They never tried to even contact her cube. The only consolation was that at least it wasn't her Borg Queen...

Nepenthe - same gripe as you. I loved them as a family, in a home they loved. So that got trashed....

Laris - they didn't even let her appear in the final episode! I really liked her.


- Laris: forgotten completely after the opening episode, because hey, it's not like Picard is in a long term relationship with her

Seven and Raffi - very glad they ended up together. Raffi is a great, complex character whom I would like to see more of (and who clearly got edited out of all scenes that had the original Enterprise crew... I suspect that was the reason for the break-up, so that she wouldn't be there...)

Not getting your 12 Monkeys reference, but I've never seen that show.

The altered DNA plot device was absolutely stupid, only beaten in stupidity by a Borg/Changeling allience.

Jack and Q - Just NO. Q was dead and I didn't miss him at all!

My acting credits go to Jeri Ryan - she was great!

Worf and Raffi was a great team. And I liked Warf' final action! For RAffi to be able to see her granddaughter - gosh, I really related to that. (I'm can only imagine how awful it would be to be separated from Oswin)

I'll never rewatch it either...

I hated some of the tropes that were badly overdone.

Anyone with an engineering skill can fix stuff that they have never encountered before in about half an hour, even if it is totally alien and nothing to do with any field in which they have any experience.

If you follow your 'gut' feeling, you will always have a happy outcome, no matter how impossible the task.

If you pile on enough ridiculous technobabble and add a random wiggle sine wave, then you may believe that you can convince the audience of anything...

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