Giving in

[selenak]

So, with bimo lobbying for Nip/Tuck, rozk advertisting Gray's Anatomy and shezan during her last visit raving about House, it was just a question of time before I gave in and watched a doctor show for the first time since eons. (I think the last one was in the early 90s, the one with Martin Shaw?). As it turns out, the one I went for was House, which I'll freely admit is because of futuresoon's very amusing crossover with Heroes. So I've now watched 11 episodes and am very entertained, but one thing confuses me: through fannish osmosis, I gathered some fans have a problem with Cameron? And I can't figure out what it might be. Fannish hate of a female character is unfortunately all too common, but it's usually either the leading female character, the hero's love interest or the female character replacing the hero's love interest, Cameron fits none of those descriptions, so what are people's issues with her, or did those arise in later seasons because of things I haven't watched yet?

Anyway, back to being entertained: Hugh Laurie is as good as advertised, which doesn't surprise since he always was in all the other films I've seen him in, I'm trying to figure out whether that's a young Jack Coleman in the General Hospital episodes House is watching, when Cuddy first showed up I went "oh! It's Joanne from Profit! Awesome!" and I love the scenes between her and House, Wilson, Cameron, Chase and Foreman manage to be all discernable from each other by dialoge and characterisation, not just looks, which sadly isn't always the case in ensemble shows, and I like them all. Oh, and when Elizabeth Mitchell, aka Juliet from Lost, showed up as a nun, I had some weird crossover flashes. The Sherlock Holmes parallels aren't as blatant as I was led to believe, but I can see where this idea is coming from, given House's presentation of his deductions, the painkiller addiction as a parallel to Holmes' cocaine addition, and the piano playing as a parallel to the violin.

Will watch more.

Comments

[watervole.livejournal.com]

In the early seasons, Cameron is in love with House. (I don't think it was ever recriprocated, but I'd guess it still counts for the fannish antagonism)

[monanotlisa.livejournal.com]

Err, yes. That always so well-founded hatred of female characters.

*eye-roll*

To this day, I do not get what's wrong with Cameron. The actress can act, the lines she gets are snarky, and she is not the looove interest.

Dude, fandom is crazy.

[bimo.livejournal.com]

Being a rather casual viewer of House, I must say that I don't really get controversies surrounding Cameron, either.

But maybe that's simply because I perceive most of the show's characters as being written rather as "archetypes" than as "flesh and blood" persons.

For me, Cameron has always embodied the more idealistic/romantic/romanticized aspects of medicine.

ETA: Oh, and regarding Nip/Tuck: Four and a half seasons so far, and many dramaturgical mistakes, but still my favourite guilty pleasure *g*

[harmonyangel.livejournal.com]

Cameron does some things in late season 1 that make me gnash my teeth and keyboard smash, though she improves a bit in season 2 (I gave up on the show halfway through season 3). A lot of it is the love interest thing, as an earlier commenter mentioned - Cameron's House obsession upsets some of the House/Wilson slashers (of which I was one, but not the crazy kind) just by existing. But, personally, I'm just not fond of her personality - manipulative and passive-aggressive and obsessive and whiny - and she was definitely my least favorite character on the show, all through the series. I'm not sure how many of the haterz hate her for my reasons, though.

(And, to be fair, the reason I stopped watching the show was because all of the characters became completely unlikable, so it's not just Cameron.)

[violaswamp.livejournal.com]

I'm another one who stopped watching after S3, for the same reasons. Not only did the characters become insufferable but the plots became duller and more idiotic.

The first season is really great, though. Selena, you still haven't seen what is IMO the best episode of the show, so you're in for a treat.

[harmonyangel.livejournal.com]

Which episode do you think is best?

For me it's always a tough three-way battle between "Sports Medicine" (for the fun), "Babies and Bathwater" (for the heartbreaking character stuff, and a great medical plot), and "Three Stories" (which was by far the most ingenious and probably the technical best, though I'm not sure it holds up with the way things play out in later seasons).

I do adore season 1, though. "Heavy" is pretty much the only episode from it that I don't like. I should do a rewatch.

[violaswamp.livejournal.com]

I was thinking of Three Stories, but I like the other two a lot as well.

[mllelaurel.livejournal.com]

I can't speak for others, but my problem with Cameron was the way she was written as keeping her innocence/naiivete way longer than someone working with House and co realistically would. That, and her tendency to moralize at others rather than act on her convictions. To me, it smacked too much of the writers going "Look, look, she's the heart of the series," and I dislike two-by-fours.

I admit, many of my fears were unfounded, as the writers turned out to know what they were doing.

Of course, she had to go and grow on me. *g* I quite loved her in season three.

I'm not much into House fandom, but...

[violaswamp.livejournal.com]

...to be fair, there are some damn good reasons for Cameron dislike. She often behaves in a way that's either sanctimonious or manipulative without being funny about it (unlike, say, House) and her conduct is unprofessional in a way that falls a bit too neatly into stereotypes about women (she's always the one who CARES, she gets emotionally involved, etc.). And her behavior comes across to many as cloyingly saccharine, with an added edge of smugness because she seems to think this sentimentality makes her a better person.

I've never wildly disliked her, but she was my least favorite character because of that smugness and self-importance--she takes everything so seriously, and I watched House for the humor and the snark. Cameron can be snarky, on occasion, but when she is it's serious and sincere snark that comes from some real sense of grievance, rather than the more off-hand snark we got from the other characters.

I didn't know Juliet showed up as a nun! I saw S1 of House before I ever watched Lost, so I didn't recognize her. Now I need to re-watch that episode.

[thesecondevil]

As others have said the hate for Cameron seems to be because she displayed romantic interest in House and was seen as either the writer's endorsed love interest or simply a threat to their own fanon pairings. Personally, I like her even when she's lecturing House on his issues while ignoring her own.

[20thcenturyvole.livejournal.com]

I don't know about others, but Cameron grated on me because, at least in the first season, she seemed really annoyingly written - she was madly in love with House! She had a tragic past with a husband who died! She cared too much for her patients! She was too trusting and emotional! In short, I think a lot of the hate was for the fact that Cameron embodied some of the worst cliches about women in medicine, and it was rather jarring in a show that was otherwise full of interesting and original characters. She got a lot more fun when she was allowed a backbone and a personality of her own.

[ide-cyan.livejournal.com]

Cuddy is not Joanna from Profit. Joanne from Profit was played by Lisa Zane (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0005571/). Cuddy is played by Lisa Edelstein (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0249046/). They're different women.

[shezan.livejournal.com]

... and Lisa Edelstein famously was Bobbi Bernstein in the magnificent Sports Night as well as Laurie in The West Wing.

[andraste]

House is a show I've never been precisely fannish about - at least not in the fanfic writing way - but I watch it religiously. Hugh Laurie is indeed brilliant.

I, personally, have no problem with Cameron and think her character develops in interesting ways as the show goes on. (She's not my favourite Duckling, though - I love Foreman best.)

A lot of people quit watching around Season Three, but while I found the story arc during the first half of the season underwhelming, the medical mysteries and snark continued to entertain me. I also think the arc in Season Four is the best ongoing plot they've had so far, because the conclusion is not foregone.

The problem House has with arcs is that the storyline is usually 'will House end up blissfully happy with Character X?' or 'will House break up with his one true love, Vicodin?' Even on the basis of eleven episodes, I bet you can guess how those turn out *g*.

For Season Four they came up with something totally different, and I'm actually engaged by the ongoing story for a change.

[shezan.livejournal.com]

Glad someone is making that point for Season Four, which is indeed brilliant. I didn't like the Tritter Arc in Season Three (you'll get to it & will see what I mean) but there was enough around it to make watching compulsive. I mainly watch House for Hugh Laurie, especially those moments when you see House suddenly getting interested by a mystery he can't get his head around; but regularly there's writing sharp enough to make me even gladder I'm watching.

[shezan.livejournal.com]

Oh, and the best tour de force House fanfic EVAH is a cracktastic House/Spooks/Dragans of New York/All or Nothing at All/Flight of the Phoenix/Fortysomething crossover by the brilliant pwcorgigirl, Walking Ghost (http://pwcorgigirl.livejournal.com/57537.html), which stars each series' Hugh Laurie character. The House/Jools Siviter meeting especially is a thing of beauty.

[wee-warrior.livejournal.com]

hen Cuddy first showed up I went "oh! It's Joanne from Profit! Awesome!"

You mean as a character type? The actress is not the same, it's Lisa Edelstein for Cuddy, and Lisa Zane for Joanne. (Don't really watch House, but I like Lisa Edelstein a lot. I would definitely have finished Profit long ago if she had been Joanne.)

[st-aurafina.livejournal.com]

Cameron was annoying early on - it's very dull to watch the pretty female doctor swooning over the older star of the show. But later in the first season, they give some good reasons for her to latch onto House, and she became more interesting to me because of this neurosis she has with flawed father figures.

House is a great series - it dips a bit in third season, but the fourth is awesome. And in terms of fanfic, it makes for the best crossovers.

[futuresoon.livejournal.com]

Pretty much I echo everyone else's opinions of Cameron; she sometimes turns into the annoying kind of love interest, she's not that interesting, she's whiny, but sometimes she also pulls off some cool bits, and I don't hate her with a passion. I just don't like it when the writers try to set her up with House. But boy, am I a lot more forgiving of Cameron when it comes to a certain arc in the second season...let us just say that there are worse ways to be a love interest. So you're watching House now! And I'm largely responsible for it! Sweeeet. Wait 'til you get to the season finale--well, it might be the episode before the season finale, I forget--it's got one hell of a well-written episode lurking somewhere around those parts, and I suspect you will love it.

(As for Holmesian parallels, we later find out that House lives in apartment 21B. So cute.)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

If you mean "Three Stories", yes, I did love that. Earlier, I watched the episode with the Mafia brothers, and you and fandom have so corrupted me that I was slightly disappointed House didn't ask the other brother to also test for AIDS after having diagnosed it with the witness protection one. Was v. amused at House getting a red sports car out of it and wondered whether the Petrellis will send any gifts?

[futuresoon.livejournal.com]

Three Stories is the bomb and dammit I am incapable of not thinking about Heroes whenever I hear that phrase. *headdesk* As for corruption--eheheheheheeh. *steeples fingers* Ehhhhxcellent. (Also, see icon.)

I think Peter might show up at PPTH with some Starbucks at some point, give one to House, and walk off; coffee is great at hiding the taste of copper, and House will spend the next month trying to figure out just how his leg muscles happened to grow back. Peter won't tell Nathan about any of this, of course.

[nolivingman.livejournal.com]

I find it interesting (read "vexing") how much it is true that the male characters of House are allowed to be totally screwed up in any number of ways, yet Cameron's flaws (which are there, definitely) are oh so annoying. I think her character gets deeper and more interesting as the show goes on; so do the others. But I find her no more or less flawed than the boys, and she changes in ways that are more interesting to me.

I find that the show veers from brilliant to kind of annoying; mostly when they're doing a story arc it's annoying, though the S4 premise is pure genius.