The Scary Father-in-law Poll

[selenak]

Inspired by a discussion with wee_warrior. Something for Lost and Alias fans!

[Poll #1151286]

Comments

[violaswamp.livejournal.com]

I ticked both Ben and Jack. At first I thought Jack was a clear winner, because he's the most bad-ass and the most able to ruin your life. But of course, he would never actually ruin your life unless you're an international criminal mastermind. In fact, he's helped save Vaughn's life on numerous occasions and tried to save Danny's. So really it's all about the psychological intimidation with Jack: you know he could arrange for you to die and make it look like an accident, even though he won't, plus he clearly thinks you're a stupid spineless twit.

Ben, on the other hand, will do everything to you that he can do and then some. He doesn't have Jack's level of bad-assery, but he's far crazier and more sociopathic.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

So really it's all about the psychological intimidation with Jack: you know he could arrange for you to die and make it look like an accident, even though he won't, plus he clearly thinks you're a stupid spineless twit.

Which is why the Danny phonecall from the pilot and Vaughn's proposal in the s4 finale are such fun.*g*

Ben, on the other hand, will do everything to you that he can do and then some. He doesn't have Jack's level of bad-assery, but he's far crazier and more sociopathic.

Also, based on the evidence so far, he's the better survivor. Which means just when you believe you're safe because he's been captured/killed, he'll return and mess with your life and mind again.

[violaswamp.livejournal.com]

Yes, Ben has had a few resurrections and escapes from imprisonment--he really should be an Alias character! Of course, Jack did the same to Arvin in the finale--coming back for the kill after he'd been written off as dead and gone. Plus he had the sense/luck to blow himself up in the close vicinity of Rambaldi goo. But Arvin's not his daughter's boyfriend (hah). In terms of pure danger to sons-in-law, I'd definitely go with Jack.

Which is why the Danny phonecall from the pilot and Vaughn's proposal in the s4 finale are such fun.*g*

Seriously, I can practically recite them both. "What you really mean is, we're having a loud party Saturday night."

[violaswamp.livejournal.com]

In terms of pure danger to sons-in-law, I'd definitely go with Jack.

Go with him in the sense that it's safer to be his son-in-law, I mean.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

But Arvin's not his daughter's boyfriend

I am not commenting on that (http://community.livejournal.com/alias500/127783.html#cutid1).

And of course it's safer to be Jack's son-in-law. (Though things might have turned out different for Vaughn if, you know, Lauren hadn't conveniently been turned into an evil villain (tm) and Vaughn thus would not have had an excuse to kill her but would have gone on making both women miserable by emotionally cheating with Sydney, if not physically, while still continuing to be with Lauren. ) But if the son-in-law can figure that out, wouldn't that make Ben the winner of the poll? (Since this isn't about potential sons-in-law feeling SAFE, au contraire.)

[violaswamp.livejournal.com]

*g* I had a feeling you'd have something to say about Arvin being Syd's boyfriend! Only in their deepest, darkest areas of their subconsciousness...

Though things might have turned out different for Vaughn if, you know, Lauren hadn't conveniently been turned into an evil villain (tm)

Jack would have had him transferred. To some godforsaken podunk assignment where he would never have seen the light of day again.

But if the son-in-law can figure that out, wouldn't that make Ben the winner of the poll?

Yes. If he can figure that out--which he might not, because Jack is more obviously scary. Ben comes off as merely icky at first glance.

[astrogirl2.livejournal.com]

I haven't even seen Alias, but I can't imagine anybody being scarier than Ben. :)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Mmmmm. It depends on who you are. As V. observes above, in Jack's case he actually does take care of his daughter's beaus but makes them sweat in fear of their lives first. Since he's not the villain of the show. On the other hand, he once strangled a man who saw him as a father figure and loved him by garotte when he could just as well have shot him because he was that pissed off.

None of which denies that Ben is the scariest. Not by looks but by effect!

[wee-warrior.livejournal.com]

I have to go with Ben, not least because instead of turning Karl into a Clockwork Orange extra, he could simply have talked contraception with Alex. Those are some scary control issues right there.

Jack on on the other hand may be a grumpy father-in-law, but at least he will honestly try to save your butt because you're important to Syd...

[selenak.livejournal.com]

True, and I think Vaughn figured that out even though Danny never got the chance to.

Ben not talking contraception with Alex: aside from the scary control issues, it eerily ties with our previous observation of him being raised with wholesome family tv shows (in direct juxtaposition to his life with Roger the Work Man). My brain breaks at the idea of him having the sex talk with Alex. His probably did, too.

...and in fairness to Ben: there's always the trauma of growing up being told that you were the cause of your mother's death as an excuse for being unable to have a sensible talk on the subject.

[wee-warrior.livejournal.com]

My brain breaks at the idea of him having the sex talk with Alex. His probably did, too.

True. And for similar reasons, he couldn't have asked Juliet to do it. (Nevermind Harper. Although, on the other hand, Harper may have scared Alex off of sex for life, so that might have been a good plan.)

...and in fairness to Ben: there's always the trauma of growing up being told that you were the cause of your mother's death as an excuse for being unable to have a sensible talk on the subject.

Definitely. Speaking of which, if there were any chance that Ben and Locke had a halfway normal conversation sans manipulative ingredients, they really should commiserate about their horrible fathers. I guess Locke was lucky that he didn't grow up in a creepy cult-like commune on top of it.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Point about Harper. BTW, I see fandom has interpreted her "it makes sense, you look just like her" remark to Juliet (re: Ben's feelings for Juliet) as referring to either Annie or Emily, Ben's mother. (BTW, Locke's mother has the same first name.) The problem is, for Harper to know what either Annie or Emily looked like she'd have to have known Ben for at least as long as Richard Halpert does. I don't doubt Ben has kept his father's pictures of Emily and has pictures of Annie, but I really don't think he showed either of them to any of the Others who joined the club AFTER the great massacre. And with the exception of Richard, all the current Others seem to be later arrivals (who believe Ben's lie of having been born on the island). Come to think of it, Harper got that eerie whispering soundmix when contacting Juliet that came in the flashback when Young Ben first met Richard in the woods. Maybe she's an original unaging Other?

Speaking of which, if there were any chance that Ben and Locke had a halfway normal conversation sans manipulative ingredients, they really should commiserate about their horrible fathers.

In the Locke and Ben essay I linked a few weeks ago, the writer pointed out:

(...) there is one particular scene that I find worthy of mention when discussing these two. It's the one where Ben gives John the option to kill his father, as another of his little twisted mindgames; at Cooper's taunting, his twisted smirks and his crooked laughter, Ben hits him to shut him up. Now, I think this is one of the strongest moments for the pairing: Ben already knows John will not be capable of killing his father, he's planning on that, in fact, and on showcasing this to the Others, and he most probably has been looking forward to shut Cooper up for a while; but the gesture does look a lot like sudden anger venting, hating him, but also hating John for not being strong enough. At a first glance, I didn’t even think it was coherent for Ben’s character, but after thinking about it, it’s not only quite possible that he does it out of having wanted John to go through with it for a split second, but also because Cooper probably reminds him of his own father.

[wee-warrior.livejournal.com]

Point about Harper. BTW, I see fandom has interpreted her "it makes sense, you look just like her" remark to Juliet (re: Ben's feelings for Juliet) as referring to either Annie or Emily, Ben's mother. (BTW, Locke's mother has the same first name.)

I had the same thought, only I was really suspecting she meant Emily, since I can't really envision the Dharma Initiative advocating bottle blondness. (Interesting tidbit about Locke's mother. Hm.)

And yes, that would probably make Harper one of the Hostiles, as opposed to one of the later Other arrivals, but she seemed incredibly powerless for that. That said, Richard endured Ben's leadership, even though he was obviously not pleased with the way it went, so maybe they aren't outright powerful, just (presumably) immortal?

The essay: that's pretty much what I thought, although of course Ben is reaching a lot here, especially if he knows aspects of Cooper's personality. I can see him overidentifying with Locke at this point, though.

[astrogirl2.livejournal.com]

I don't think Ben believes in birth control. He seems determined to propagate his freaky island cult even if it involves kidnapping kids and continually importing women until some of them miraculously fail to die in childbirth. At least, that's the only explanation I can come up with for why women on the island keep getting pregnant at all. And if that's the case, well, it would probably look bad if he started handing his daughter condoms. It would undermine his authority and stuff. It's just simpler and easier to brainwash her boyfriend. At least, it is if you're using Ben Logic. :)

[thesecondevil]

I chose Jack because while Ben will go after you to a frightening extent at least Karl knows where he stands with him. Jack on the other hand could go from giving you helpful advice to trying to frame you for a crime you didn't commit within twenty four hours. That continued uncertainty is far scarier IMHO.

[yahtzee63.livejournal.com]

I can't believe Jack is winning this one. All of the other three will actually try to KILL offending suitors.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

*g* Well, Jack did kill Simon, though of course if Vaughn or Will had made the mistake of telling him what sex with Sydney was like, he might have killed them too (or let the state do it for him via frame job).

Seriously now: it greatly amuses me Jack is winning, either, since I really didn't ask who'd win a fight or something like that.

[claudiagray.livejournal.com]

True, but Simon was also trying to kill Jack at the time. Seriously, Jack may be the most frightening one to face across the dinner table, but in terms of actual danger to person, if you're not screwing with international espionage/Sydney's continued life, you're safe from Jack.

[zandra-x.livejournal.com]

Ha, ha, "Lost" is all about "Bad Daddies".

[kangeiko]

What, no Arvin?

[selenak.livejournal.com]

What did Arvin ever do to Weiss, other than making the poor guy uncomfortable as hell with a look after Weiss dared to use his first name? *g* This isn't about who is the most dangerous person to humanity in general, remember, just to suitors of his daughter!

[kangeiko]

But he killed Danny! Evilly, and with extreme prejudice.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Bah. Danny died for professional reasons. Now if he had killed the poor guy because Danny proposed to Syd, that would have been different.

....mind you, my money is still on Vaughn as the only one of Sydney's beaus Arvin genuinenly disliked. Because Syd and Jack were willing to trade him in for Vaughn's health improvement. That's galling. Dying for them is one thing, but dying for the boytoy? At least he got his revenge by messing with Vaughn's mind whenever they met in season 3.

[mermaidrain.livejournal.com]

LOL! I never thought of it that way, but you're right. JJ does have quite a few crazy father-in-laws out there. LOL! I wonder if he's writing from personal experience. ;)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Let me put it this way: I have no idea whether or not the man is married, but if he is, I'm willing to bet there at the very least a few VERRRRRY uncomfortable conversations at the start...

[mermaidrain.livejournal.com]

He is most definitely married. Die hard romantic like him? Married a while back.