Fannish Migration Meme

[selenak]

Seen on various flists.

Have you ever followed friends/favorite authors into a fandom without ever having seen/read the source material?

No, not in the sense of having become a fan, let alone writing fanfiction, without having seen/read the source material. In fact, that's one of my tried and true anti-kinks. I absolutely hate it when someone states "I haven't watched/read XYZ, but here's my story" - few things make me back off faster as a reader. And I've seen it happen in a lot of fandoms- people basing their characterisation on fanfiction, rather than on the source material. (Mind you, in a fandom like Doctor Who, where with 40 years of canon material, some of which has been destroyed forever - thanks, BBC! - it's impossible to have watched everything. However, it's easy to keep writing about what you are familiar with, i.e. if you've only watched New Who, stay away from the previous regenerations and companions, and try to avoid grand sweeping statements about the Doctor's lives and emotional states during same. Or if you've watched Four but no previous regenerations, then kindly stay away from One to Three. And so on.) (And then there is the "I only watched the Methos episodes" phenomen of Highlander fanfiction. Which used to drive me crazy. This might qualify whoever is writing to write about Methos, but the Duncan characterisation almost invariably is faulty or sucks, and often the same is true for the Joe characterisation, for Amanda and Richie.)

All this being said: what did happen to me was that I became curious about fandoms by reading crossovers in which I didn't know one of the fandoms involved, or by "meeting" characters via roleplay at theatrical_muse when I was still active there. This then led to my tracking down the original source material and becoming fannish, or not.

Have you ever really enjoyed the source material, read the work of specific authors into a fandom, and yet have no interest in the fandom as a whole?

That did happen, usually with source material that didn't or doesn't have a large fandom to become involved with, like, say, Dexter, but also with a really big fandom like Harry Potter where I liked the novels and the occasional fanfic by writer I already was familiar with elsewhere, but no more than that. What also happens in regular intervals is that shipping wars and character bashing in various big fandoms drive me crazy and I have to absent myself from doing anything but watch/read the source material for a while. Though the "bah, fandom!" mode usually is then elevated by reading great fanfic or great meta once I get back into it.

Have you ever been strenuously pimped by your friends into another fandom and immediately fell in love with the source material?

Absolutely. Sometimes it took a bit longer - with Buffy, for example, which was pimped to me by fellow Highlander fans, but which I didn't get fannish about until perhaps three quarters of a season, or Alias, where it also took a season and some episodes more - and sometimes it really did happen very quickly. *pauses for mournful thought of having marathoned most of Heroes season 1 during the last s1 hiatus and the effect that had back then*

Have you ever gotten into a TV show/movie before your friends and busily pimped the source material to them in the hopes that a fandom would ensue?

I'm still feeling smug about successfully pimping both Babylon 5 and Alias to andrastewhite. This increased the percentage of Londo/G'Kar and Arvin Sloane fanfiction to no end, which is exactly what I was hoping for. Not the only example of successful pimping - looks at bimo and thaliaseawood - but still one of my favourites.

Have you ever gotten into a TV show/movie and tried to pimp it to your friends only to find out that they’d just gotten into it as well and were about to pimp right back?

Not really, no.

Have you ever been part of a mass migration into another fandom?

Hm, as I joined Buffy fandom between s2 and s3 of the original broadcast time when the show was at the height of its popularity - yes, I suppose? On the other hand, I usually never leave old fandoms behind completely, and keep coming back every now and then. Also, the biggest fannish mass migration in my time on lj was to Supernatural, and I just couldn't follow, even when for a time everyone seemed to be crazy about it. (The "no nasty girls near our boyz"!!! posts around SPN s2 were a big, big reason, admittedly.) Since it's unfair to make judgments about something based on fannish reactions, I eventually got around to watching the first season, decided it really was not for me and have been happy to stay away from that particular migration ever since.

Comments

[londonkds.livejournal.com]

I was a fan of Jo and Ellen, and have what would probably be an explosive opinion over the row about alleged misogyny in S3 of Supernatural, which is that some of the tendency people picked up on to have all the female characters ciphers or villainous was directly because of some of the reactions of nutty Wincest fans to the idea of the boys getting on with women.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Given the sheer level of freakout I observed from the sidelines when s2 was broadcast - which presumably didn't get unnoticed by the shows' makers - there might be a connection, yes. But that doesn't excuse the show. Recently I stumbled across a post which quoted the sole female staff writer, Sera Something or the other, being asked (by a very dumb interviewer, by the sound of the quote) about the "ridiculous rape controversy". She replied in earnest and explained the idea that Sam raped a helpless woman every time he had sex with the demon possessing her body squicked her so she put something in her script to make it clear the "hosts" were dead and thus there wasn't a question of consent, but that the boys in the scriptroom all were disappointed in her for being so dainty and chickenish. This doesn't sound like a bunch of scriptwriters who need Wincesters to make them treat female characters badly to me.

[londonkds.livejournal.com]

Ah, I gave up on the show before whichever of the boys it was started having sex with demons and the resulting blow-up over the implied consent problems. But there were definitely complaints about the portrayal of women in S3 well before that happened.

[andraste]

I'm still feeling smug about successfully pimping both Babylon 5 and Alias to [info]andrastewhite. This increased the percentage of Londo/G'Kar and Arvin Sloane fanfiction to no end, which is exactly what I was hoping for.

You are profoundly evil, and I love you for it *g*.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Like all evil masterminds, I need victims like you. *g*

[wee-warrior.livejournal.com]

Very interesting thoughts. I couldn't even answer half of these questions, mostly because I have very little use for fanfiction in general. (Our discussion about whether or not Ben is popular really drove home that fandoms are a lot more diverse than I previously thought. ) However, I do end up with option 2 more often than not, which makes me wonder if these two things are at least partially related.

Also, the biggest fannish mass migration in my time on lj was to Supernatural, and I just couldn't follow, even when for a time everyone seemed to be crazy about it. (The "no nasty girls near our boyz"!!! posts around SPN s2 were a big, big reason, admittedly.) Since it's unfair to make judgments about something based on fannish reactions, I eventually got around to watching the first season, decided it really was not for me and have been happy to stay away from that particular migration ever since.

I had watched and liked Season 1, but had become bored on a rewatch and ultimately didn't care for the episodes of Season 2 I've seen. The fandom reaction you describe ensured that I'd rather chew rusty nails than ever watch that show again, though.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

It's not that "ew, girl cooties on mah boys!" is a reaction unique to SPN fandom, but it was so virulent there, above lj cuts and so ever present, that this was my first impression long before ever watching an episode, and that's a deterrent very difficult to overcome. If I had fallen in love when watching the first season, I might have managed it nonetheless, but there was nothing there in that first season I hadn't seen done better elsewhere before, so... *shrugs*

Fanfiction in general: I do love it, when well done, and I think it's fabulous that creativity in show makers/ film directors/ novelists is inspiring other creative people as well. One of the most appealing aspects in fandom, just as shipper wars is one of the least appealing.

[wee-warrior.livejournal.com]

I think it's fabulous that creativity in show makers/ film directors/ novelists is inspiring other creative people as well. One of the most appealing aspects in fandom, just as shipper wars is one of the least appealing.

I agree on both accounts. I guess it's just that I seldom find fanfic that deals with elements I find interesting (and is good). But it is a very unique and fascinating way of interacting with a text, there is no doubt about that. I also find it interesting that it develops it's own rules and quirks, even it's own language. And now I sound as if I wanted to write a paper on it. *g*

but there was nothing there in that first season I hadn't seen done better elsewhere before, so... *shrugs*

Hee. I felt the same, and I think subconsciously, the setting, the location and some of the crew worked against them - we literally have seen all of those elements done better on X-Files. (And of course the writing is so on the nose, it makes Tim Kring look like Joss Whedon.)

[futuresoon.livejournal.com]

Probably there is nothing I can say that is truly in defense of the Supernatural fandom, since I tend to stay the fuck away from episode reactions and stick to the fic/vids/art/occasional bit of meta if it's level-headed. This way, I get all of the good bits, but none of the bad bits--and I don't notice the actual glaring issues with the show until someone points them out months later, but oh well. (I'd like to think the "no girls allowed!" trend has settled down a bit, since the fourth season had not only a female character who flirted shamelessly with the boys and promptly became a fan favorite but also a recurring female character whose sex scene with one of the boys is generally considered the hottest of the show. But then, the first one was only in two episodes and the second one gets bashed for her acting, so. I'm just going to shut up now.)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

There, there. I've loved my share of flawed primary sources - *looks with undeterred fondness at Star Wars prequels* - and I don't want to you to feel bad for enjoying something. I was just explaining why I never could join SPN fandom when about two thirds of my friends did!

[wee-warrior.livejournal.com]

Have I ever told you that I watched La Femme Nikita only because I think Peta Wilson is hot?

...that is far less off topic than it might seem.

[futuresoon.livejournal.com]

You have never told me that, but now I am wondering how this can possibly be on-topic.

[wee-warrior.livejournal.com]

I don't even know if the show is good or not, but I suspect it isn't. Yet I'm sure I watched at least two seasons, and I'm not at all ashamed for that. Nor for my extremely shallow reason for watching it...

[futuresoon.livejournal.com]

Ahhhhh! That makes much more sense in relation to the context. I myself can admit to only watching a terrible James Dean biopic because it had James Franco in it, although that was admittedly less of a timesuck...

[selenak.livejournal.com]

This reminds me: have you seen Milk already?

[futuresoon.livejournal.com]

Hell yes I have, and it was awesome! And sad, but in a hopeful sort of way, except it was still a bit depressing because that was thirty years ago and things have not really gotten all that much better except in a couple states. Still, hopeful is hopeful.

[wee-warrior.livejournal.com]

Well, I did stop short of League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. I couldn't do that even for Peta Wilson.

[futuresoon.livejournal.com]

See, I watched that even without caring who she was.

I've made better decisions in my life.

[wee-warrior.livejournal.com]

Bad movie decisions: I saw The Messenger (that horrible Joan of Arc massacre by Luc Besson) and didn't walk out of it, just because the guy I had a crush on wanted to watch it. After three hours of suffering I had enough material that I can rant about the movie for hours to this day, but at least I was cured of the crush.

[callmesandy.livejournal.com]

Oddly, with SPN, I find ignoring the fandom in large part but reading the fic has made me very very happy - the fic is pretty awesome. Though I actually steer away from the inevitable Connor crossovers. I always remember the story where Connor's eyes were brown! Or the people who loudly disliked Connor when they watched Angel and now used him for m/m stories with Sam.

And I should probably accept that the only Connor I like in fanfiction is written by you and a few others.

My version of your anti-kink is a staunch refusal to read anything where someone tells me "you don't need to know the fandom."

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Though I actually steer away from the inevitable Connor crossovers. I always remember the story where Connor's eyes were brown!

:) This reminds me that even as a non fan, I remember people getting indignant when the first or second SPN tie-in novel, by kradical, got Dean's eye colour wrong. Maybe the eye-colour syndrom spread?

More seriously, I'm surprised that people who didn't like Connor want to pair him up with their darlings, but then I've never understood the portion of Spike fans who wrote Spike/Buffy stories while hating Buffy. And AtS/SPN (like BTVS/SPN) crossovers should be a headache anyway, since from what I remember about s1 of SPN the "rules" for demons are completely different.

...I'm glad my Connor is still liked by you, and feel guilty for not having written him for so long!

[callmesandy.livejournal.com]

It seems like, if one is not sure of the eye color of an actor/character, one would therefore avoid using it. Right? Sigh. I never mention eye color when I write because half the time, I can't even tell you the eye color of people I see every day.

I've read a number of xovers with SPN/buffyverse that do some handwaves to deal with the differing rules. But as for the Connor involvement, I think it's the Stanford thing that makes it so alluring and yet, well, as noted, they don't really care much about Connor, per se. But I do! Which is probably the bigger reason I can't read them, I have spent way more time than most writers thinking about these things. I like him!

And hey, no guilt! It's not like the wonderful stories you've written have been taken down and I can't reread them. We write what we write. :)

[wee-warrior.livejournal.com]

It seems like, if one is not sure of the eye color of an actor/character, one would therefore avoid using it. Right? Sigh.

Or look at pictures? It's not that hard to find them on the net. I even recognize the actor of Whatshisface The Angel everywhere even though I haven't watched SPN in three years.

[callmesandy.livejournal.com]

Pictures can be deceiving with some people, though, or confusing. Blue/green/hazel/mix? I think with Vincent Kartheiser, though, pretty darn clear. :) So when someone writes it as brown, it makes me think they never much watched Angel at all. Which is not a plus in reading fic that features Connor.

[londonkds.livejournal.com]

I've never understood the portion of Spike fans who wrote Spike/Buffy stories while hating Buffy

Not too hard to understand, as I understand it they started writing the ship as a non-canon one and carried on writing their version of the ship and characters while first refusing to accept that, and then furiously complaining because, the canon had a different view.

[likeadeuce.livejournal.com]

My version of your anti-kink is a staunch refusal to read anything where someone tells me "you don't need to know the fandom."

I'm curious as to why that's a turn-off. Do you assume it means the story is pure PWP?

[callmesandy.livejournal.com]

I read fanfic because I'm a fan of the source. Because I want more of the source. When someone says "you don't need to know the fandom" then I assume the story is generic/pwp/has been smoothed of any neat quirks from canon. I like canon! I'm not sure why I'd want to read fanfic when someone tell me the canon is unimportant. :)

[likeadeuce.livejournal.com]

I think there are a lot of reasons to say that, though, including the composition of your friends list.

[callmesandy.livejournal.com]

Absolutely! But the same way I know my idea of a good summary - short excerpts from the story - is a turn off to a lot of people, whatever the intention, saying "no need to know the fandom" will be a turnoff to some people. And that some includes me. :)

Certainly, if I know the fandom and the writer, I will use that as a guide to read more than the declarations that you don't need to know the fandom, but I won't read stories where I don't know the fandom and saying I don't need to know it makes me that much more less likely to read.

And I feel like we're getting off-topic in our friend's lj!

[likeadeuce.livejournal.com]

Oh, that makes sense. Sorry, I thought you were saying you didn't read stories where you KNEW the fandom and someone said you didn't need to know it.

Didn't mean to get off track, I just wanted to clarify the point.

[violaswamp.livejournal.com]

Also, the biggest fannish mass migration in my time on lj was to Supernatural, and I just couldn't follow, even when for a time everyone seemed to be crazy about it. (The "no nasty girls near our boyz"!!! posts around SPN s2 were a big, big reason, admittedly.)

The whole show and fandom seems like a cesspit of racism and misogyny, which is possibly unfair of me...but that impression is enough to make me avoid the hell out of it.

I have Babylon 5 on my Netflix queue, largely because of what you've said about it.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Hooray! Bear in mind that the first season, as is often the case, is a bit shaky, with hit and miss episodes. But there is much character and arc building which is quintessential to what happens in the show later, which is why I hate it when people advise new watchers to start with the second season. And I'd love to read reviews from you. Will try not to post spoilery B5 stuff above lj cut from now on, because there are some jaw-dropping moments which should be appreciated without being informed first.

*uses most unspoilery B5 icon available*

[alara-r.livejournal.com]

I had pretty much the same reaction to Supernatural, with a side dose of "all the fanfic is about INCEST? Euw euw euw." Incest in fanfic is totally not my thing.

[violaswamp.livejournal.com]

Yeah, that was a sticking point for me too. Not my thing. Especially given the weird vibe I got of "oh, the best and truest love is of brothers, literally, in arms and women are either dead inspirational angels or wicked/shallow/unworthy distractions" from the show.

[bimo.livejournal.com]

Not the only example of successful pimping - looks at bimo and thaliaseawood

And the best thing about you: Sometimes you are pimping without actually intending or even noticing it *g*

Latest example: Blackpool.

Ever since the DW Christmas special and the more or less accidental watching of the 2008 version of Sense and Sensibility I've developed an *ahem* slight interest in the works of Mr. Morrissey.

So, remembering the fabulous dancing scene you once posted, I hopped over to Youtube and viewed few clips, only to find myself increasingly hooked. I think it was "Gambler" that did the trick. By now the first two episodes are already watched and I'm waiting for the third one to finish downloading...

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Well, then let me use the occasion to point out two further works in which Mr. Morrissey displays his actorly versatility: State of Play (with a certain John Simm in the leading role), and The Deal (in which he's Gordon Brown to Michael Sheen's Tony Blair). Meanwhile, enjoy Blackpool!

[bimo.livejournal.com]

State of Play (with a certain John Simm in the leading role)

Simm? Wow! Sometimes I get the feeling there must be only about six or seven different actors in Britain and at least five of them have already appeared in New Who ;-)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

If Derek Jacobi says he wanted to be in DW at least once in his acting career, it must be everyone's aim, so that explains it.*g*

(Simm is a noble journalist, Morrissey is a politician with a just discovered affair; they go way back. Also in this miniseries is Polly Walker - Atia in Rome - and James McAvoy, oh, and Philip Glennister and Bill Nighy. They're shooting an American remake with Russell Crowe in Simm's role, which, you know, is so not...)

Speaking of actors in New and Old Who: Here's something for you (http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/tv/a140485/peter-davison-unforgiven.html).