Flipping gender or point of views; multifandom musings (including BSG, Star Wars, DS9 and Carnivale)

[selenak]

Firstly, American readers, if the ramblings on these humble pages or anything else has made you interested into the new Battlestar Galactica, the Sci-Fi Channel is running a marathon on Tuesday of the first five episodes starting at 7 p.m. EST, so you should have a chance to catch up. A fan of the old show – proving that loving both is far from mutually exclusive - lists eleven reasons why.

thassalia, while reviewing episode 5, mentioned having an argument with her significant other. Quote:

This mostly ends up being an argument because of his issues with Starbuck being a girl. He somehow feels like it's a betrayal of his childhood memories and white men everywhere (don't expect sense of M. that late on a Friday night). He finally asked how I'd feel if they remade Star Wars and made Han Solo a girl. I sort of shrugged, and was backed up by Sab on Saturday as we both agreed it would probably be kind of hot.

Which reminds me that almost a year ago, inspired by a post of Andraste’s I think, I went on a bit about genderflipping, where it’s possible and where I could see difficulties. (I.e. for example in the Babylon 5 universe, you could genderswitch all the humans – though possibly not at the same time – without that changing their storylines, and you could do it with the Narn characters (i.e. female G’Kar and male Na’Toth) but it’s far more difficult with the Centauri, especially Londo, because of the way Centauri society, patterned as it is after the Romans, has been characterized. You can have influential women, but they’d have to work through men, they couldn’t be ambassadors on B5. Now with Star Wars, I think a remake, twenty or thirty years hence, with genderswitches could be fascinating. Actually Han Solo would be the easiest candidate to genderflip without taking away any of the Solo characteristics, or changing his storyline. (Assuming the audience at large will then finally be ready to buy a textual samesex romance in a blockbuster.) Smuggler Jenna Solo – Jenna in honour of that other smuggler and pilot of the 70s, Jenna in B7, of course – could still take them to the Death Star, get close to Luke and Leia, get frozen and get rescued. The only thing that would change a bit, in this hypothetical scenario, would be Luke’s reaction to Solo the Smuggler, if you maintain Luke as male and inexperienced farmboy. He might be somewhat attracted as well.

The Jedi, otoh, would require some deeper changes in the storylines, depending on whom you genderswitch. The most problematical might be Obi-Wan Kenobi, not because of himself but because of Anakin/Vader (if you keep Anakin as male), because the prequels offer some reason to believe that young Anakin responds far better to female authority than he does to male. If, otoh, you genderswitch Anakin in the prequels and Vader in the OT but keep the rest of the Jedi (Obi-Wan, Yoda, Qui-Gon, later Luke) as male, you can keep the storyline as it is but might aquire a possibly misogynistic subtext. (Gender-switching one or two of the unfallen Jedi along with Anakin should take care of that, though.) Still, I’m fascinated by the idea of a female Vader. But then, I’m firmly with alara_r and andrastewhite on that one (i.e. the idea of genderswitchs in old favourites of mine being intriguing instead of provoking holy outrage).

Going back to certain characters or archetypes and changing/flipping something doesn’t have to be gender, of course. deborah_judge has now started the final run of episodes on DS9 and, as I expected, loves the Kai Winn storyline. As she also started to watch the new BSG, she intriguingly suggested that Laura Roslin might in part be inspired by Ron Moore wanting to write about Winn – or the Winn prototype – from a Winn-friendly pov. I.e. the female mature politician in charge of things, in a somewhat competitive relationship with the male commander, ready to sacrifice lives if she has to, as a sympathetic character we’re supposed to root for, not against. Meanwhile, Andraste mentioned that Justin in Carnivale’s first season is the reason she forgives Moore for Waltz and Eeeeevil!Dukat. (I forgave him before because while he might have written the actual episode, the decision to make Dukat uniformly evil from Waltz onwards was made by the executive producer and headwriter of the show, Ira Behr, who was quite vocal in interviews about his disgust with Dukat fans. (Think David Fury/Spike fans in season 5.) Moore was one of the more influential writers on DS9, and contributed a lot, but so far nothing indicates the Dukat thing had been his idea.) And I can see the similarities. A character who after a horrible tragedy involving the loss of a child/children – and as it turns out at the hand of someone near and dear to him – has a mental breakdown from which he reemerges believing being an antichrist kind of figure is his lot in life and becomes a cult leader? Check. Only in the case of Justin, as opposed to Dukat, we’re encouraged to see this as a tragedy and something he struggled (struggles?) against. And apparently in Daniel Knauf’s original version of the pilot, Justin was already evil ™ , with his own radio show and cult; his season 1 arc was Moore’s specific change in the concept and contribution to the show.

Which brings me to the season 1 finale of Carnivale, The Day that was the Day, which now has arrived at my virtual doorstep as well. (Thanks, smashc). Looking at the writing credits of the season, I can see that Ron Moore – who was executive producer along with series creator Daniel Kauf but is not anymore in the second season, due to being busy on BSG - penned this one and Pick a Number (aka the creepiest episode ever) – and they’re easily among the most powerful of the season. Some of what happened in the finale I had guessed by the season 2 opening ep, but not all.



Management manipulating Ben into killing Lodz was among the guessable things, but I still felt strongly for him. Justin asking Norman to kill him, otoh, was a surprise. And there is no reason not to believe he’s not sincere at that moment. At this point, it’s interesting to take a closer look at the powers each othe supernaturally gifted have:

Ben: can heal and resurrect from the dead, but only by taking the lives of others. Which well and truly sucks for him. It’s a power that requires a strong ethical code because obviously, there is the danger of setting yourself up as God. (Which is what Management seems to encourage him to do, or is it?)

Justin: hypnosis. Even the neck twist as a child can be explained by him sending a powerful order to the man to break his own neck, I suppose, because otherwise that would be the only instant where Justin uses telekinesis. The hypnosis he uses often, but not always, comes coupled with some cognisance of crimes the person in question has committed. I’d call this telepathy except Justin himself does seem to be surprised by some of the results when they are shown. It can’t be feelings of guilt he picks up, though because while in the case of the migrant lady stealing coins, or the councillor abusing children, there have been wrongs of various degrees committed, Norman saving little Justin and Iris was a purely altruistic act and evil only in regards to the consequences, and only if you believe, as Justin does a moment later, that Justin becoming evil is inevitable and pre-ordained. In any case, hypnosis is of course a power just as easily able to corrupt its user. (Which is one of the reason why Charles Xavier really needs that strong code of ethics he clings to. The daily temptation just to fix the world to his liking, and to hell with free will, must be horrible.)

Appollonia: Telepathy. While she communicates only with her daughter – and with the somewhat similarly gifted Lodz – she obviously can read other people’s thoughts as well. Pre-cognisance. Telekinesis.

Management: Healing like Ben, hypnosis like Justin (I’m assuming that when Jonesy entered, Management hypnotized him into seeing nothing), and telekinesis like Appollonia. Now isn’t that interesting?

Lodz: can enter dreams and communicate with Appollonia. There seems to be some limited telepathy with waking people as well, or perhaps he’s just really good at reading them. I’m favouring the limited telepathy option, though. His blindness makes me think that he came to this gift by sacrificing his eyesight, like Odin sacrificed one of his eyes for wisdom. Not in a “born with it” way Ben and Justin. (Whether Appollonia had her gifts before she got raped and immobile, we don’t know.)

Sofie: that’s the question. Another thing the season 2 opener hadn’t prepared me for was the Lodz-Appollonia conversation, and the fascinating “it can’t be her!” obviously referring to Sofie. Or that Appollonia actually actively tried to kill Sofie. Which ties her with Ben’s mother rejecting and cursing her son at the beginning, and possibly the Russian Soldier in light of the season 2 opener. It does tie her, in a contrast kind of way, with Norman. Norman is asked by Justin to kill his adopted son because they’re both convinced Justin is on the path of damnation, and possibly the Antichrist, but can’t bring himself to do it due to the love he has for his “son”. Appollonia tries to kill her natural daughter – and herself – because she, too, appears to believe Sofie is destined for… what? Another antichrist position? Does Sofie have gifts, possibly inherited from her father, which Appollonia has kept back so far but doesn’t think she can keep back any longer, hence the attempted murder? Hmmmmm.

Now I had gathered that Jonesy had caught Sofie and Libby in the act, but hadn’t guessed that Sofie had engineered the situation deliberately to punish them both. Which makes it more layered at once. It’s ruthless and somewhat out of proportion to the wrong they did her, at least as far as Libby (and Libby not telling Sofie about the Jonesy/Rita Sue tryst) is concerned. It’s the most malicious thing we’ve seen Sofie do, and explains her behaviour in 2.01 and 2.02 (until watching 1.12, I thought she overreacted). And it manages to ruin not one but two of her relationships in one stroke. Ouch.

Meanwhile, our Edward Albee couple make up, which fits with the Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf template. You know, Rita Sue and Felix “Stumpy” Dreyfus might be the Garibaldis of Carnivale, i.e. the characters least likely to get a happy ending but who actually get one. I’d wish it for them.

Andraste, look away again, as I get to episode 2.02 now….

…yikes. Justin getting the tree tattoo on himself made for another powerful creepy final image. And this episode features the second instance – after the man in the asylum banging his head agains the wall – of Justin using his powers maliciously in a deliberate and calculated way. (Unless the sublimal messages via radio were generated by his suconscious desire to an instrument to track down Scudder rather than him creating them knowlingly. I suppose we’re to think that he knew what he was doing, though, in which case I have to add wide-range telepathy to his powers, though.)

Using the Asian prostitute (at first I thought she was supposed to be Chinese, but “gomen nasai” is Japanese) from early season 1 was clever on the part of the writers. One assumes he’s going to her to channel his taboo desire for Iris, and even when we see her using an instrument instead of having actual sex, it looks like a variation of the self flaggelation, so the tattoo really comes as a surprise shocker. I suppose he found it in the gospel of Matthias? In which case I’m starting to wonder whether Scudder is identical with the tattood man who raped Appollonia and thus is Sofie’s father as well.

Celeste the new housemaid will inevitably end up being the person Justin actually does have sex with, methinks. No strong will, no back-up, and not his sister. It’s interesting, though, that Justin even after deciding on the left-hand-of-God path still doesn’t permit himself to consumate his feelings for Iris. I wonder whether it’s to punish her (and himself) for the fate of the children; he certainly hasn’t forgotten or forgiven, judging by him looking directly at her when listing their names in the church dedication.

Management/The Russian Soldier says it would be “an abomination” to let himself be healed by Justin and resists the temptation, barely, but he resists. Why an abomination? Because he’s a champion of the previous generation who failed in his task? And while I’m on the subject, the voice sounds female to me. Were it not for Ben’s dreams in which the Russian Soldier is distinctly male, I’d suppose Management is female. Otoh we only have Management’s words about being identical with the Russian Soldier, so, who knows?

Comments

[estepheia.livejournal.com]

A female Solo would be HOT.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I agree.

[vaznetti]

Interesting thoughts on genderswitching. It's something I don't much care for in fanfic*, but which I love in other contexts--for example, the new Starbuck, or the idea of a female Vader, although I think that that would have some dramatic effects on the Luke and Leia storyline. Although, or maybe because. In high school we put on a production of Dracula with a female Van Helsing, and although we didn't change the script (darn theater instructor!) even at the time I could see how electrifying that could be.

* I think because I associated it with effects to turn a slash relationship into a het one, or vice versa.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Although, or maybe because. In high school we put on a production of Dracula with a female Van Helsing, and although we didn't change the script (darn theater instructor!) even at the time I could see how electrifying that could be.

There is a famous precedent - silent movie star Asta Nielsen played Hamlet, but Hamlet as a woman disguised as a man. (With a prologue explaining that due to not wanting the throne to go to brother Claudius, Hamlet Senior had his newborn daughter announced as a son.) The relationships with Laertes and Ophelia stayed, and especially the one with Ophelia suddenly gained a whole new twisted subtext.

I am your mother certainly would have a different impact, though just as powerful. Darth Vader as Irina?

[vonnie-k.livejournal.com]

I was discussing Carnivale a few days ago in my LJ and agentotter came up with the theory that it would be Sofie, not Ben or Brother Justin, who would be the deciding factor in which side would win--that Sofie has a seed for great evil in her and that's why Appollonia tried to kill her. That the battle between Ben and Justin would be for Sofie's soul. I have no idea that the show would go this direction, but I have to admit that having a woman be a center of an apocalyptic battle between Good and Evil (for a change) intrigues me.

I've never thought the Tattooed Man might be Scudder. Hmmmmm. Interesting....

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Which would make Sofie the new Eve and also both ease and toughen the question of Free Will. Because Ben and Justin appear to be pre-destined to their roles, which is a tragedy for them both. But if Sofie is destined for something yet can make a choice about it, it means Free Will still does exist in the Carnivale universe. Otoh, if Sofie can reject her inner seed of evil, why can't Justin? (That short bit of dialogue from 1.12 between him and Iris:

J: The bible tells us we're all doomed.
I: But the bible also says that we can be redeemed. Through God's grace.
J: Maybe God has other plans for some of us.

seems to indicate the key might be that Sofie does not believe herself to be doomed, as opposed to Justin who does.

I've never thought the Tattooed Man might be Scudder. Hmmmmm. Interesting....

smashc just told me that she/he never thought anything else. Which would make Ben/Sofie the parallel to Justin/Iris, no?

[buffyannotater.livejournal.com]

seems to indicate the key might be that Sofie does not believe herself to be doomed, as opposed to Justin who does.

That's an aspect I've found very interesting about the show: both the "hero" and the "villain" both believe themselves to be doomed, or inherently wicked in some way, even though they were both raised in diametrically opposed situations--the hero was raised by his mother to believe he came from the Devil, and the villain was raised by a priest to believe he was a child of God.

As S2 progresses, I'm thinking more and more that Sofie will play a huge role in the upcoming battle (maybe Ben and her are brother and sister), and Ruthie, as well, in some capacity, who had an affair with Scudder. What I find really fascinating is that it is so hard to tell whose side the previous generation is on. Is Management "good" and Scudder "evil," or is Management manipulating Ben to bring a "good" man to him that he will destroy? Or is Management still "good" but a greyer shade who believes the ends justify any means? Was Management working with Lodz, or was he just using hiim? And where does Apollonia fit into all of this? At the present, it's almost impossible to definitely answer these questions, which makes it even more interesting.

And a bit random, but I love everything you've been saying about Stumpy, Rita Sue, and Libby. I love their entire family dynamic. It's so fascinating to watch.

[deborah-judge.livejournal.com]

Re:genderswaping, the other big example is Delenn, who was supposed to be male in the pilot, and up until the Chrysalis.

I'm a big fan of genderswapping, and although I never met the original Starbuck, it does make me wonder how being genderswapped changed her character. At the moment (having seen just 2 episodes) she doesn't seem all that unusual - the crackerjack female fighter with deep emotional wounds is something we've seen before, with Kira and Susan Ivanova. It makes me want to back and watch the original, just so I can see how the characters compare.

My favorite genderswap: a production of Othello in which *all* the characters were female. Truly mind-bending. I also saw a Twelfth Night with a female (and queer) Orsinio, and The Tempest with a female Prospero. These were all with different troupes, so I guess genderbending Shakespeare is socially acceptable.

And now I'm wondering about genderbending female characters. The Merry Husbands of Windsor would be decidedly unfunny. A genderswapped Pride and Prejudice would have to be set in a vastly different society. But a male Arwen could work, if you made Aragorn female (or made canonical MPREG, since they do need to reproduce). Male!Arwen would be in the Elven tradition of artisans, and probably get a lot more respect than female!Arwen does, but could be substantially the same character.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I'm a big fan of genderswapping, and although I never met the original Starbuck, it does make me wonder how being genderswapped changed her character. At the moment (having seen just 2 episodes) she doesn't seem all that unusual - the crackerjack female fighter with deep emotional wounds is something we've seen before, with Kira and Susan Ivanova. It makes me want to back and watch the original, just so I can see how the characters compare.

Judging by the pilot of the original and the two or so episodes I saw way back when, the emotional wounds are what's new. Male Starbuck was just a swashbuckler. But then the adding of emotional trauma is not confined to Starbuck. In the original, Zack was killed by Cylons, there was no guilt for anyone, and Apollo and Adama got along along just fine. (Whereas in the new series, they start out barely on talking terms and are now tentatively becoming closer again.) The other genderswapped character is Boomer, who was a man but then also wasn't a Cylon sleeper agent unaware of her nature because the Cylons weren't able to look like humans in the original (they were just dumb robots).

Shakespeare genderswapping can be galvanizing, yes. Love it.

LOTR genderflips

[nenya_kanadka]

Male!Arwen/female!Aragorn, assuming written consistent with Tolkien's world in other respects, would be very, very cool. There's got to be another alternate history in which JRRT actually did that, just because I'd love to read it. I mean, really--I already adore Aragorn. But if he were a woman, with all the same nobility of character, and bravery, and kindness and sternness and healing powers and destiny *too*, and if Arwen were able to be an Elvish artisan as you say (and not be knocked for it because she was "a little woman embroidering")...I can just picture it now. Thank you for the idea. *has been made happy*

And of course, how would that affect Eowyn? Leaving aside even her romantic crush on Aragorn, would it affect her any differently to see a woman coming as the great hero to save the day? If, say, she were still straight and so didn't sexually crush on female!Aragorn (but still fangirl Aragorn as a hero), would she feel as rejected when she couldn't go on the Paths of the Dead? And would that influence her decision to ride off to Minas Tirith as Dernhelm?

And if we're going to do LOTR genderswapping--what would a female Gandalf look like?

--Nenya, surprised to find this interesting her as more than just a bad-slash cliche

[angevin2.livejournal.com]

Here through metafandom and noticed one of my favorite topics getting introduced:

These were all with different troupes, so I guess genderbending Shakespeare is socially acceptable.

Indeed. Though as I recall, Fiona Shaw's portrayal of Richard II about ten years ago got a lot of reviews that were decidedly snarky: I suppose it's one thing for a woman to play Prospero and another for a woman to play an English king. Even a less-than-macho one like Richard II...

(Actually I had some quibbles with her performance myself, but they were interpretive -- I thought the dynamic caused by the cross-gendered casting was quite intriguing...Shaw's Richard was quite clearly madly and masochistically in love with Bolingbroke; if it had been a male actor as Richard it would have been intensely homoerotic and as it is I'm not sure it wasn't.)

And while we're on the subject of Richard II, I did a recording of it a while back where we did a lot of non-trad casting, although we didn't genderswap characters -- sort of hard to do in an English history -- just actors. Interestingly, a lot of the cross-casting fell along political lines: the royalist camp was mostly played by women, and the rebels largely by men, which was not intentional but led to some rather neat effects. I think. Of course, listening to the production, it doesn't "read" to me as a production with a woman reading Richard II, because, you know, it's just me...I wonder how it plays for others.

We're working on 1 Henry IV right now, in point of fact, and have a woman [not me this time] playing Falstaff. That ought to be lots of fun. ;) Again, not genderswapping characters, but -- particularly in an audio setting -- the effect is probably close enough...

[j-bluestocking.livejournal.com]

Management is voiced by Linda Hunt. (Or so I assume; it certainly sounds like her.) And given that her first breakthrough role involved playing a man (The Year of Living Dangerously), the fluidity of gender here, even on an unconscious level, is interesting.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

This is where a childhood of watching films and shows only dubbed comes in. I never heard her voice before.

Anyway: yes, it is. I'm curious whether they'll go anywhere with this...

[watervole.livejournal.com]

Sigh. I didn't realise you'd said the American SF channel. I went hunting for it, all excited, until I realised that the reason my Tivo had no record of it was because it wasn't in the Radio Times either. And I was really looking forward to it as I'd missed the first few episodes.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Sorry! But if you like, I can send you copies on CD Rom - though I need your new address again, my last Christmas card came back to sender, and I lost the envelope of yours...

Minor point--

[nenya_kanadka]

Speaking of Dukat, you may be interested to know that we are doing a Mirrorverse roleplay at the moment, involving a "good Dukat". (Kind of like how Brunt got to be good in the mirror!Ezri episode.) His daughter is alive, and goes by the name Ziyal Dukat (having been raised by him after he and his wife Tora Neprem separated), and he's a minor politician, a decent upstanding (though Alliance) citizen, instead of a megalomaniac dictator. (Still shags Bajoran women, but a little more legitimately.)

I liked "Covenant" the first time I saw it, because of various contacts with cults I've had myself, but that story (evil cult leader) has been told before. *sigh*

Re: Minor point--

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Sounds interesting!

(I loathed Covenant, not just because of Dukat, because I had seen that, as you said, done before, and better. There's an early X-File episode which did virtually the same story, for example.)

Fun with genderswaps!

[alara-r.livejournal.com]

What if you reversed the genders of Luke and Leia? Actually this is damn easy when you think about it, given that they are twins; presumably Obi-Wan split them up on the basis of who seemed to be stronger in the Force, so if the girl had had greater strength it's the girl who would have been raised with Uncle Owen and Aunt Beru, and the boy who would have been raised by Bail Organa.

Vader as a woman is a *fan-fucking-tastic* idea. In fact it's a sufficiently good idea that I may steal it and adapt it for something original (original in the sense of "I did a pretty good job of filing off the serial numbers so I could publish professionally", not actually original-- the Vader archetype, the evil villain who is actually the lost parent and is redeemable in the end, resonates even more strongly as a woman for some reason.

I think you cannot swap John Crichton for the same reason you can't swap Londo Mollari. It would be hard enough for a twentieth-century human woman, even the daughter of a great astronaut, to be *either* a top-notch physicist *or* a test pilot; making her both would stretch disbelief until it snaps. (Frankly, making Crichton both was a stretch in itself.) Which is unfortunate, because it could be really cool to swap Crichton, but it's just not plausible. Other Farscape characters, there's little point to swapping (though actually, a male Chiana who behaves the same way as female Chiana does? totally cool) because one doesn't imagine a woman would be necessarily different from a man in most of the alien species. Aeryn particularly is uninteresting (except, perhaps, if the romance with John stayed the same :-)).

What is this Carnivale thing you and Andraste keep talking about?

Re: Fun with genderswaps!

[andraste]

the Vader archetype, the evil villain who is actually the lost parent and is redeemable in the end, resonates even more strongly as a woman for some reason.

Based on Alias, I agree with you. The heroine starts out believing her mother was a saint who was killed a car accident, then finds out that she was actually a KGB agent and is still alive. Cue angst all around. I think it's because there's a strong taboo in most cultures against women who abandon their children.

Aeryn particularly is uninteresting (except, perhaps, if the romance with John stayed the same :-)).

I think it would be interesting to see if the audience and/or Chrichton would react differently to some characters based on their gender being different, but the characters themselves would probably be similar. And yes, I can't see any point to Male!Aeryn unless the point was to show the Great Romance as m/m for a change. Maybe when they do a remake in twenty years, they could do that ...

Because of the way the cultures in B5 work, outside the Centauri example mostly what genderswapping the characters changes is who they hook up with. (I have thought about this a lot, because I'm genderswapping my way through the entire cast. It seems likely to me, for example, that Stephanie Franklin gets together with Michael Garabaldi.)

What is this Carnivale thing you and Andraste keep talking about?

It's a show on American cable (HBO) set in 1930s America, about 0 surprise - a carnival. Well, mainly about a carnival.

Ben Hawkins is an escaped convict with mysterious magic powers (I won't spoil the details). After his mother dies and the bank repossesses the farm, he falls in with a bunch of carnival people who saved him from being squashed by a bulldozer. It turns out that several of these people knew Ben's long-lost father, and that some of them have odd abilities of their own.

Meanwhile, in California, there's a Methodist priest called Justin Crowe who also has powers. Both Ben and Justin have strange apocalyptic dreams, starring one another. The whole thing is gearing up for a giant battle between Good and Evil, but working out who's Good and who's Evil is challenging at times ...

Farscape & gender

[wisdomeagle]

I think you cannot swap John Crichton for the same reason you can't swap Londo Mollari. It would be hard enough for a twentieth-century human woman, even the daughter of a great astronaut, to be *either* a top-notch physicist *or* a test pilot; making her both would stretch disbelief until it snaps. (Frankly, making Crichton both was a stretch in itself.)

Female!John (Joanna, for convenience?) is just Stargate's Sam Carter, tho'. And I mean, Farscape was John + DK's special project; it's been awhile since I've seen the premiere, but it seemed to me like they got an awful lot of opposition from the mainstream; I suspect it was only because of Jack's connection that they got the IASA backing they did. Eh.

I think there's a difference between institutional disparity and, er, societal attitudes, for lack of a better word. I don't know BSG at all, so I don't know how well the Londo comparison holds up, but I really don't think that Joanna's achievements on Earth, which will be important for a grand total of like, five episodes, really prevent the gender-switch. Then, I tend to fall into the "it's a show about wormholes, aliens, and muppets; believability is not the issue" school of thought.

Which is unfortunate, because it could be really cool to swap Crichton, but it's just not plausible.

Other Farscape characters, there's little point to swapping (though actually, a male Chiana who behaves the same way as female Chiana does? totally cool)

I have just fallen in love with the idea of female!D'Argo/male!Chiana

because one doesn't imagine a woman would be necessarily different from a man in most of the alien species.

See, for instance, "The Flax." I think that all the species we've seen are bi-sexual, and all of them have at least some notion of gender, although how much it would matter to say, Delvians vs. Luxons is a question. Mostly, we just have one real example from each species, and there's definately the consideration of the archetypes the writers are using (Warrior Male, Wise Woman).

Huh.

I want a female!Scorpy, probably for the same reason we want a female!Vader. Although I'd miss all the homoeroticism.

[ruuger]

Ah, genderswapping, one of my favourite subjects :)

Han Solo as a woman would be great, but how about Mal from Firefly? I liked Firefly, but I didn't love it because I thought some of the characters and storylines were still far too stereotypical. A show with female Mal and male Inara would have been, to me, far more interesting.

Then again, when I'm into a show or a movie, it usually doesn't take long for me to start pondering what it would be like if the boys were girls and the girls were boys. I blame this all on being involved in production of Macbeth where, due to the demographics of the group, many male characters were turned into women. This has ruined Macbeth to me because I will always imagine Malcolm to be pregnant with Banquo's child.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Mal as a woman would have been much like Buffy near the end of her show, which is probably the reason why he's a man. It's interesting to image a Firefly remake with him as a woman, though - in which case Wash and Jayne would be a minority on the ship, with Kaylee, Zoe, Inara and Female!Mal. The addition of Simon and River wouldn't change anything there, either, which again reminds me of BtVs. It's a different group dynamic. Interesting, but different.

What I'd find even more intriguing personally - female Simon and male River. I.e. she's the doctor, he's the broken crazy genius. Would Mal (assuming he'd be male) have reacted differently to the Kaylee blackmail and everthing else? Would Jayne?

will always imagine Malcolm to be pregnant with Banquo's child.

Great Maker.*g* That would actually make Malcolm interesting...

[kstanley.livejournal.com]

Hey there, pouncer referred me here in reference to your Carnivale comments. I'm a big fan. I love your comments on the show!

My sense of both Justin and Ben, (and Management, and Scudder), is that their powers are fluid. I think they all have the same powers; the difference is in how they use them. From Justin's conversation with the occult guy in 2.01, I assume that once he becomes the Usher, he taps into a whole new level of power. Perhaps the same is true of Ben. Meaning that once Management dies, that he will jump the next level. Maybe. Like you, I am not convinced that Management is the good guy in this. And even now, I am not convinced that Justin is the bad guy.

There seems to regular references to free will in the show. I have a sense that each player chooses his side and that the other player takes the opposite role by default. For example, it seems, knowing what we now know about Scudder's family, that he was meant to be evil. But he seems to be resisting this. And we know that Ben seems to be the good guy. And then we have Justin, raised by a reverend, who turns out to be evil. Why is this? The key, I am beginning to think, is free will.

As far as Sofie goes, I am not understanding how she fits in. It seems as though she is meant to be the Usher, (there was that bit where Ben saw the Usher on the road, and as he got closer, he realized it was Sofie). It is interesting to think of her as a spoiler for the whole good vs. evil thing. I see you are familiar with Babylon V—think of the ending of the Shadow War. Ultimately, people decided to opt out of what boiled down to a pissing contest between two very old enemies. Maybe that is what is going to happen on Carnivale.

I keep coming back to the atomic testing that Sampson references in his opening monologue. That is apparently what ended this whole Avatar thing. And why would that be? Why would atomic testing end an age old battle between God and the Devil? I think it has something to do with the elevation of science and secularism in our culture.

Whether Appollonia had her gifts before she got raped and immobile, we don't know.)

I think she did have her powers before she was raped. They updated her profile over at the HBO site (http://www.hbo.com/carnivale/cast/character/apollonia.shtml) and I get the impression that she has been psychic for a long time.

It's interesting, though, that Justin even after deciding on the left-hand-of-God path still doesn't permit himself to consumate his feelings for Iris. I wonder whether it's to punish her (and himself) for the fate of the children; he certainly hasn't forgotten or forgiven, judging by him looking directly at her when listing their names in the church dedication.

This is interesting. I find the whole storyline with Celeste to be pretty forced. There is nothing in Justin's character (first season) that indicates that he's a deviant horndog. His sin, the one that I thought he would fall prey to, is pride. Oh and anger. Those are two very dangerous sins in combination. They have been the driving force behind the worst wars in history.

As far as Justin and Iris goes, I do think he is punishing her for the children. He is pissed, pissed. I also think that they have consummated their relationship. They aren't young and they have lived together their entire lives. I don't think they do it often, but a couple of times a year, (when Justin's lust gets the better of him). I say this because neither one of them seems uncomfortable with the attraction between them. It seems old, familiar.

This is a great post. I really enjoyed reading it.

I

[selenak.livejournal.com]

As far as Sofie goes, I am not understanding how she fits in. It seems as though she is meant to be the Usher, (there was that bit where Ben saw the Usher on the road, and as he got closer, he realized it was Sofie). It is interesting to think of her as a spoiler for the whole good vs. evil thing. I see you are familiar with Babylon V—think of the ending of the Shadow War. Ultimately, people decided to opt out of what boiled down to a pissing contest between two very old enemies. Maybe that is what is going to happen on Carnivale.

I hope so. Certainly it would fit with all the WWI imagery - a war which as opposed to WWII did not stick as the "good versus evil" conflict in public consciousness, but rather as the prime example of a senseless war, where as G.B. Shaw once put it everyone would hav been better off if the soldiers hat shot their generals and gone home.

Otoh, season 2 seems to be edging towards far greater black and white in regards to Ben and Justin as season 1 did, which would negate this theory.

Why would atomic testing end an age old battle between God and the Devil? I think it has something to do with the elevation of science and secularism in our culture.

Once could draw a parallel and go back to the age of Enlightenment (i.e. the 18th century) and Kant providing a justification to be ethical which did not need religion as its basic. But then the 20th century, as I think Thomas Mann put it, rediscovered the devil. The optimistic belief of the Enlightenment in human progress being solely of the good got broken through the Third Reich, WWII, and the use of scientific achievement for, to quote Samson, unimaginable cruelty - genocide on the scale the Nazis managed wouldn't have been possible in any earlier age. If anything, the 30s and 40s were the period where irrationality of a very specific 20th century kind won over reason. And the atom bomb became the symbol for science put to destructive use. So it would be a strange symbol to use if they were going for the dawning of a new age, the age without gods/magic/the supernatural, a la B5 and Lord of the Rings. (Not optimistic about human nature exactly, I mean.)

Still, it's a powerful symbol and I'm curious to see where it will lead us. Certainly plays by Dürematt or Kipphard have used the atom bomb specifically as the symbol of human fall, the proverbial apple which shouldn't have been taken. The Salt Lake test site is hardly a garden, but in the vision Sofie and Ben see in 2.05, they do carry an Adam and Eve aura, and then their kiss apparently triggers the nuclear flash. Hmmm....

I find the whole storyline with Celeste to be pretty forced. There is nothing in Justin's character (first season) that indicates that he's a deviant horndog.

Oh, I'm absolutely with you there. I think it was Daniel Knauf's way of beating us over the head with the fact we're supposed to regard Justin as EEEEEVIL (tm) now. Never mind character consistency. (Seems that in the original pilot and treatment for season 1, Justin was already at the beginning where he is in season 2 - as evil (tm) with his own radio show and followers. When Ron Moore came in in early story development, he revised this and came up with Justin's season 1 arc instead. But now he's gone, alas.) Anger and pride as his fatal flaw becoming larger and larger would have been far more logical. But there it is, and we have to fanwank it.

II

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I also think that they have consummated their relationship. They aren't young and they have lived together their entire lives. I don't think they do it often, but a couple of times a year, (when Justin's lust gets the better of him). I say this because neither one of them seems uncomfortable with the attraction between them. It seems old, familiar.

I wouldn't say neither of them. Iris isn't. Justin is. My main reason to suspect they never consumated their relationship is that before his not quite suicide attempt and stint in an asylum, Justin saw himself as a good man and tried very hard to be one. A simple back rub from Iris in episode 2 was enough to make him whip himself. So if they had actually had sex, I dare say the penance he would have decided upon would have been drastic enough that even Norman would have noticed.

Even in season 2, when he's decided it's his lot to be evil, we get scenes like him shooting a lingering look at Iris' legs and then, when she meets his gaze, rushing out to a prostitute instead of touching her. And then there is the whole intense scene between them in 2.05, where they talk about her confessing to the murder, but you could equally apply the dialogue to something different:

I: Ask me. Ask me to do this.
J: I can't.
I: Ask me.

That might be it - she wants him to ask, to explicitly admit what he feels for her, and he's just not able to do that.