Poll!

[selenak]

My Easter post was already made yesterday, so my continuing quest to stay free of Dr. Who spoilers until some well-meaning person, British, German or otherwise, enables the addict by ahem'ing 2.1 and handing it over is my very first poll. Because for some reason Easter with my family makes me think meta fandom thoughts, when combined with remarks like londonkds's recent review of City on the Edge of Forever (the Blake's 7 one, not the Star Trek one): "with Vila getting the equivalent of Sic Transit Vir or The Zeppo", he wrote. Which reminded me, not for the first time, there are certain types of episode most shows do - the bodyswap episode, the hostage episode, the canon AU "what if?" episode, etc. Hence, poll.

[Poll #711183]

Comments

[likeadeuce.livejournal.com]

Answers with explanations.

1. I'm not a real fan of this trope in general, but how can I not vote for "Zarek gets introduced" (I didn't fall for him until "Colonial Day," but still. I've also got a soft-spot for the ST:TOS episode where Lt. Riley takes over the ship and keeps singing Irish songs (I still greet an eponymous friend with "Kath-leeeen" on a regular basis, though she has no idea what I'm talking about). I'm not exactly sure if this fits in this category or if it kind of splits the difference with the crazy/alter episodes (is it more like "Something Blue")?

2. I've only seen the Buffy ep in this case, but it's my favorite Buffy ep. . .and I love body-swap in general. Such a great concept. (I also adore the body-switch parts of "Carpe Noctem")

3. I actually vote for the vampire episode of "Alias" on this one -- though I like "Normal Again," and the Alias ep was an obvious homage to Buffy.

4. Though I'm somewhat obsessed with "Birthday", I actually voted for "Wish," because it's a better episode -- I love the part of "Birthday" that focuses on Wes, Gunn & Angel's roles in the AU I love, but that's actually an awfully small part of the ep.

5. I haven't seen any of these actually -- ask me when I've sen LoM.

6. I'd be tempted to put the Marshall-saves-the-day 2 parter in Alias-2, if you didn't have to go and throw "Guise Will Be Guise" on this list. I'm quite helpless before the sight of dork!Wesley finding his manliness (sort of).

7. Not having seen these eps, I vote for "Lineage," even though I suspect it's actually the opposite of what you're getting at here.

8. Chain of Command, obviously :)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

1) Oh, The Naked Time. I love this episode, too, but no, I wouldn't count it as a hostage episode. You get Trek street cred for remembering Lt. Riley who only appears in two episodes.

3) The vampire episode of Alias is a good candidate, you're right.

6) Now you're making me guilty for not having nominated Marshall. I loved, loved, loved Tuesday (where he saves the day in s4).

7) Err, yes.

[likeadeuce.livejournal.com]

Umm, yeah, I can go on forever about the original ST. Not much of anything, genre-wise, BETWEEN that and Buffy. But, considering it's been close to 20 years since I saw most of the episodes, i sometimes frighten myself. And you know -- I love those Rileys.

Does the err, yes on "Lineage" mean that it actually is the opposite kind of daddy episode that you were thinking of? Which would suggest that "My father is actually even MORE of a bastard than I thought he was, so I must kill him, oh, oops that wasn't him so in fact this entire 44 minutes of nonstop angst has resolved absolutely NOTHING" -- is NOT a common trope in genre TV?

[popfantastic.livejournal.com]

Best "Am I Crazy, Am I Dreamin'?" episode

Does "Far Beyond the Stars" count in this category? On the other hand "I may be surrounded by insanity, but I am not insane!" is possibly one of the best Riker lines evah, and I have affection for that episode.

Choosing between "Who Are You?" and "Out of Their Minds" is very, very nearly impossible. Heavens. I've actually already forgotten which I picked, it's that close.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

"Far Beyond The Stars": tricky. On the one hand, it's a fabulous episode, and Benny does have to wonder whether or not he's crazy. But Sisko never has to, and in the other cases, the regular character is our pov. But then again, a twist of the cliché is always good... Argh. I don't know.

Body swap torture: yes, I know. I can't make up my mind, either!

[kernezelda]

If you haven't gotten a copy by Monday (my time) I can upload 2x01 to yousendit.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I just got one! But thank you.

[ex_mrs260625]

1. Past Tense. Because I haven't seen the others, and... Sisko and Bashir! Sisko and Bashir are underused, and the episode is wonderful.

2. No answer. Haven't seen any of them.

3. Frame of Mind. I still remember seeing this episode for the first time. Spooky, and genuinely didn't know what would happen.

4. The Wish. Not only a great what-if, but introduced some longer-term plot threads.

5. Distant Voices. Flirting with Garak, what could be better? :0) IMO DS9's slashiest G/B episode.

6. No answer. Haven't seen any of them.

7. The Visitor. *weeps* Also a nice counterpoint to TOS's City On The Edge Of Forever: Kirk sacrificed love for his universe, and Jake sacrificed his universe for love.

8. For torture the hero, I have to go with DS9's Improbable Cause/The Die Is Cast. The torture scenes are harrowing and intimate, and both characters remain accessible to the audience.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Re: 8 - I'd have nominated The Die is Cast were it not for the fact that Odo is not the leading man of DS9, and in all the other cases, the lead character got tortured. (As far as torture eps in general are concerned, I would have nominated BSG's "Flesh and Bone" as well, but again, no lead character involved.) You are, of course, right in your praise of it.

[settiai]

I've uploaded the new episode here, if you still need it.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

You are so my hero.

[settiai]

*grin*

I'm just trying to share the love.

[astridv.livejournal.com]

There's also the ever-popular time loop episode. That's practically a bulletproof kink for me. Xena and Seven Days both did one, both hilarious. Damn, why did I delete those tapes.

That's a fun poll... but I know only Buffy, Angel and DS9 so my vote would be rather skewed.

Weirdly enough I never quite liked Distant Voices, even though I was a card-carrying G/B shipper.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Time Loop, that's right. I suppose we could include Life Serial from BTVS (and the Trio even references the TNG episode which uses this concept). I loved the Xena one.

Distant Voices: is fun, but not my favourite G/B (or favourite of this type) by far. (As for as Garak and Bashir are concerned, I'm for "The Wire" for the serious type and "Our Man Bashir" for the fun stuff.)

[astridv.livejournal.com]

I totally forgot about Life Serial. Mummy hand! TNG had one, too? I didn't know that. Oh, X-Files did one as well, I think it was called 'Monday'... also pretty good, if more serious in tone than the others.

Distant Voices: is fun, but not my favourite G/B (or favourite of
this type) by far. (As for as Garak and Bashir are concerned, I'm for
"The Wire" for the serious type and "Our Man Bashir" for the fun stuff.)

'Our Man Bashir' is fantastic! For the first year or so I 'watched' DS9 pictureless (I had no decoder for SkyOne) and this episode was still a hoot, just listening to.
Also agree on the 'The Wire' for drama. Though my favourite Garak ep is probably 'In the Pale Moonlight', even though it doesn't have him interact with Bashir [insert mini-rant about homophobic tv-execs]. Still, that ep doesn't pull punches.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Yes, TNG had one, too. Data was the one to figure out they were going through a time loop, not surprisingly. (BTW, I think Jonathan says, re: Buffy's test "I just hope it won't take her as Data or Mulder on that X-Files episode" in Life Serial. Ah, ME scribes, you're all such geeks and I love you for it.)

In the Pale Moonlight belongs on my "best of Trek" list - all Trek shows - it's so fantastic. However, as you point out, not a Garak/Bashir list and hence a different catagory.*g* And yes, I rant inwardly each time about that when I rewatch and stumble across the total lack of G/B interaction in the last two seasons (except for the finale).

[eirena.livejournal.com]

Best "My Heart Belongs To Daddy" Episode -- 'Mirage' on Alias. For so many reasons, some of them badwrong. :)

Also, for Best "Am I Crazy, Am I Dreamin'?" episode -- I really enjoyed the s3 Alias episode, after 'Breaking Point' with the flaky doctor who gives Syd drugs to try to remember information about her life as Julia Thorne. I forget the title.

Good poll!

[selenak.livejournal.com]

"Remnants"? No, that was the one after, where she meets Will again. I can't remember the title right now, either, but I know which one you mean. Excellent point about "Mirage", too.

*feels guilty about having left out so many Alias options*

[londonkds.livejournal.com]

In terms of canon AU eps, I'd also nominate the ST:TNG episode Yesterday's Enterprise for the sheer elaboration of the concept (not to mention its rather strong similarities to The Wish, right down to an alternate character eventually turning up in the main timeline).

[selenak.livejournal.com]

You're right, that was a great canon AU ep if there ever was one.

[ide-cyan.livejournal.com]

Explanations for the places where I voted "Other":

Best Hostage Episode:

I just don't remember or know any of the choices available, except the one I don't want to vote for. Maybe the Invisible Man episode "Bad Chi" or "The Three Phases of Claire" could go here.

Best "What If? /Canon AU" episode:

Red Dwarf has the best of these, and how many! "Parallel Universe", "Demons and Angels", "Timeslides", "Back to Reality", "Tikka to Ride", etc. and of course, the unforgettable "Dimension Jump", introducing Ace Rimmer, Space Adventurer! It wins this category, with a broken leg and both hands tied behind its back while hanging upside down in a storm.

Best "Take a look at yourself during a useful coma" episode:

What, no "other" button?

Best "'My Heart Belongs To Daddy" episode:

I vote for Farscape's "The Choice" and/or "Kansas".

Best "Torture the Hero" Episode:

This one goes to The Collector, for "The UFOlogist".

[SPOILERS!!]


The hero, Morgan Pym, tries to save the souls of his clients in their last 48 hours before the end of their deals with the Devil. He's been a Collector for centuries, and is thus not-quite human. This episode's client believes he made a deal with aliens. In order to gain his cooperation, Morgan pretends to be from another planet... and his client proceeds to perform invasive experiments on him.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Re "My Heart Belongs To Daddy": you know, I was tempted to include "Kansas" but then thought that it was more a Mom-and-Dad episode (all the rarer for it). Same with "The Choice" (only it's Mom, Dad and John), though it's one of my all time favourites of Farscape, with Claudia Black's stunning, stunning performance.

"Other" in the coma category: I simply forgot.

And I really must check out "Red Dwarf".

[ide-cyan.livejournal.com]

...FS had "Relativity" as a Mommy episode? Not as good, though. And "Incubator" was a "My Heart Belongs to Mommy" one in a way...

Red Dwarf is awesome. They did canon Mpreg 16 years before Farscape.

[spikendru.livejournal.com]

Best "Torture the Hero" episode: I checked "other" because I'm voting for "In the Dark", (Angel, Season 1), in which Spike tortures Angel(by proxy. Oh, Spike - if you want something done right, do it yourself!) using an extremely creepy vampire pedophile who plays classical music while skewering Angel with hot pokers. Angel prevails, gets the ring of invincibility, and then gives it up because he's afraid invulnerability will make him forget the mission of helping the marginalized, lost people with no one else to whom they can turn. Good episode.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

It's a good episode, to be sure (and contains the best Spike monologue ever*g*), but I left it out - as other Jossverse episodes, such as Firefly's "War Stories", for example - because to me they don't really deal with torture itself, or rather, the torture is a plot device to to get something else across.

[spikendru.livejournal.com]

Okay. I'll buy that the torture is a plot device to get to the 'why we fight' message. Changing my vote to Chain of Command in that case. *g*

[luminosity]

Best Hostage: In the Dark, Angel the Series, and Liars, Guns and Money or maybe What Was Lost from Farscape. Something about my BSO's being all tied up and stuff. :)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Well, the boys tied up are nice, but it's not exactly what I meant with hostage episode.*g* (I was thinking of episodes where someone - usually a villain, but in the DS9 example, it's actually one of the heroes as well - takes a group of people hostage, a la Dog Day Afternoon.

[luminosity]

Gah! I said Hostage but I meant Torture. Everything else I said applies, and I'd like to add that I'm a moron. Carry on!

:)

[andraste]

For the hostage question, I have to vote for a Press Gang episode. The Last Word is the only one of those to have convinced me that a major character had just been fatally shot - not once, but twice!

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Note to self: check out "Press Gang".

[andraste]

Note to self: check out "Press Gang".

I may be able to help you with that *g*.

It was written by Steven Moffat, who penned The Empty Child two parter for the new Doctor Who. Also, for various reasons I am convinced that Joss Whedon or one of the other Jossverse scribes must have seen it. (But see icon.)

[g_shadowslayer]

Best "Am I Crazy, Am I Dreamin'?" episode:

Lost: Dave


[[Spoilers]]

Like the Buffy one, only even more so :)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Thanks for hiding the spoilers (haven't seen season 2 yet); I shall look out for this episode when it's shown over here. Also, is this a Locke icon my delighted eyes spot?

[g_shadowslayer]

I tried to be as vague as possible, even with the spoiler warning, because really, Lost is one show that should be as spoiler free as possible! :D

And yes, the lovely Locke icon is by... *checks* the amazingly talented blimey_icons :D

[yahtzee63.livejournal.com]

I'll second this. Without spoiling it, it takes the "am I dreaming?" convention one step further and makes it a whole lot fresher.

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

I think the best body-swap ep was the SG1 one. Sorry, I don't know the name, but it was a fairly early season. They didn't need ID cards round their necks for us to know who they were, and Christopher Judge (usually Te'alc) playing Jack O'Neill was just brilliant. "Ya think?" Oh, yes!

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I only ever saw four SG-1 episodes, and that wasn't one of them, so I couldn't say.

[ayrdaomei.livejournal.com]

Holiday! I enjoy that too, though I've always wished the actual body-swappage between SG-1 had lasted a little longer - the focus of the ep is on Danny having swapped with an alien. Also, Sam never got in on the action! But Teal'c-as-Jack and Danny-as-Jack and Jack-as-Teal'c and Jack-as-Danny (RDA did this bit for but a moment, and wordless, which impressed me even more!) were great fun ^_^

[vilakins.livejournal.com]

They were. And the acting was excellent.

Maybe they left Sam out because she's a woman? I did enjoy Crichton's reactions to being in Aeryn's body--and Aeryn's reactions to his. ;-)

[selenak.livejournal.com]

The breast juggling was such a guy thing to do.*g* And I adored Aeryn's final remark...

[ayrdaomei.livejournal.com]

I very much enjoyed this poll, though for each question I had usually only seen two of the offerings, so I answered it a bit uninformed about the spectrum of possibilities...

Bastille Day was a great ep because I remember being genuinely scared for the characters, especially Callie, and I was still trying to figure out who was sure to make it from ep to ep and who might not. Also, ah, the glory days of when I actally cared about Lee as a character and he was remotely interesting to me! But I voted for Past Tense because we got really quality Sisko-Bashir moments in that ep, which we saw too few of in the series, and we got that terrific reveal when we find out Bell's been killed (one of my earlier and biggest "oh sh*t" moments ever watching a tv series, I think) and Sisko has to figure out a way to set history back on track.

Are you a big fan of To Be/Not To Be? I remember pretty hating that entire final season, but I had no sense of how others in fandom felt about it, because I wasn't online when I was into HL.

B5 always delivered great 'look at yourself' moments I thought. I'm also a tremendous fan of G'Kar's vision during Dust to Dust.

I didn't cast a vote in the second to last question, since I didn't know any of the eps mentioned, which I felt justified my voting for two eps in the last question >.> I simply could not pick between Nerve and Chain of Command II. I remember Chain of Command II being kind of hard for me to watch, I was still fairly young when I first saw it. And it was shocking to me, to see the great Jean-Luc Picard in that condition. That line where he reveals for that for a time, he did believe he could see five lights? Man. And Nerve, I don't even know what to say about Nerve. I didn't really fall in love with Farscape until A Human Reaction, and Nerve was the next ep after that to really register and convince me it wasn't a fluke. I was into the show for the long haul, after that.

[selenak.livejournal.com]

Bastille Day and Past Tense: loved both, more on this in my results post.

Also, ah, the glory days of when I actally cared about Lee as a character and he was remotely interesting to me!

I know what you mean. The writing for Lee post-Home... *shakes head sadly*

To Be/Not To Be: it has some scenes I'm very fond of, but no, it's not a favourite. S6 in general had such a lot of problems - unavailability of actors, the network's insistence that they had to do all these spin-off girls try outs - but I liked some of said spin-off girls, and of course I loved "Indiscretion".

Dust to Dust: awesome episode all around.

Your Farscape experience is similar to mine - until "A Human Reaction", I could not see what the fuzz was about, though I mildly liked previous episodes, and then Nerve/The Hidden Memory came along...

Picard tortured: exactly. This and the earlier Borg episodes made Jean-Luc real to me in a way Kirk never has been, because Kirk had the traditional hero's immunity from these things. Picard could be broken, and that made him tremendously human and all the more admirable when he got up again.

[yahtzee63.livejournal.com]

Yes, I'm an "Alias" freak, but I think "The Box" definitely stands as one of the best hostage episodes ever. The many different turnabouts at work within the hostage scenario is unusual and wonderful -- Dixon's contacting the CIA, Sydney and Jack are working together, Sloane is being the bad-ass of all time despite being tied to a chair, Marshall gets his first moment of physical courage and, hey, Quentin Tarantino. The ways in which Sydney has to both save SD-6 and simultaneously betray it make that exceptional, I think.

I voted for "The Visitor" as the best Daddy episode -- I think it's one of the great scifi episodes of TV, period -- but I admit to being fond of ultra-Freudian "Mirage" on Alias, too. :D

[selenak.livejournal.com]

I feel like such a bad Alias watcher now, because that is another one which yes, I really should have nominated. Especially considering it made me go from "yes, nice show, I think I'll keep watching" to "I must keep watching this".

There can never be enough The Visitor praise.*g*

[sadbhyl.livejournal.com]

Heart Belongs to Daddy
Xena "The Reckoning" - Xena's dad shows up, but is put on trial for murder and Xena must decide whether to let justice take its course or defend her father. Of course, he's really Ares in disguise, but the irony of that doesn't come into play until third season . . .

Torture the Hero
So totally Firefly "War Stories" - Mal and Wash are horribly tortured while arguing about Mal not having an affair with Zoe. Male bonding at its most surreal!

[selenak.livejournal.com]

The Reckoning and Xena/Ares wrongness are a good choice, too.

War Stories: I loved the episode, but didn't nominate it for reasons explained in today's post.

[sadbhyl.livejournal.com]

My bad, sorry. (But it's still my favorite torture scene . . . ;) )

[bitterbyrden.livejournal.com]

I'm just so limited. A fresh recollection of Jossverse, a dim (but thorough) fondness for TNG, familiar with the 9th Doctor, good knowledge of s1 and 2 of Alias (but subsequent hatred), and an introduction (just s1) to Farscape. So my voting was skewed like whoa.